I'm struggling a bit

[Kelly]

I was so pleased to find this site and this forum. I found the site after frantically searching the internet for support as an ex ex-gay. I had just gotten a phone call from a man I hadn't spoken to in 10-years, who just wanted me to know that he had heard from "the Lord" that I needed to die to myself, leave my partner of 12 years, and my broken life. He heard from the Lord that I needed to become the woman God wanted me to be. Even though I hadn't heard any such thing from God, I found the part of me that shouldn't read horoscopes to be extremely vulnerable.

Though I do feel convinced that God loves me and has designed me to be the person I am, this did bring up other issues.

My partner is struggling with having any faith at all. Though we both thought she was, she is no longer what you could call Christian. She is willing to continue to attend church with me. I love her deeply and do not want to end our loving and fruitful relationship together.

Thoughts or prayers?

[antonyh]

My only thought is to keep loving your partner and give your partner the freedom to find her own spiritual path.

Welcome to Soulforce.

[Joe Brummer]

Please take my words at face value and with a grain of salt, question everything I say as I am just a man who wants to connect with you and want is going on with you. I am not religious and I am not going to say anything that connects with god, but I also don't want to offend your faith. With that said:

I was so pleased to find this site and this forum. I found the site after frantically searching the internet for support as an ex ex-gay. I had just gotten a phone call from a man I hadn't spoken to in 10-years, who just wanted me to know that he had heard from "the Lord" that I needed to die to myself, leave my partner of 12 years, and my broken life. He heard from the Lord that I needed to become the woman God wanted me to be. Even though I hadn't heard any such thing from God, I found the part of me that shouldn't read horoscopes to be extremely vulnerable.

More than I would question god or faith here, I would question anyone who claims to have spoken to god, heard god, or know what god wants. As an atheist, I have a hard time with anyone telling you that you should leave the love of your life (after 12 years?) because they spoke to god. I would hope you would scrutinize that with lots of questions.

Though I do feel convinced that God loves me and has designed me to be the person I am, this did bring up other issues.
Your beliefs, and most people's come from a life long journey of experience. We cannot force ourselves to believe anything. If you believe god loves you, years of knowledge and work have built that, it will take more than one man's phone call to tear that up.

My partner is struggling with having any faith at all. Though we both thought she was, she is no longer what you could call Christian. She is willing to continue to attend church with me. I love her deeply and do not want to end our loving and fruitful relationship together.

Thoughts or prayers?

I wonder if I am reading some sense of doubt that her beliefs would change yours? Would it really matter if she was a nonbeliever and you were a believer? Can agnostics and theists have relationships? WHy not?

I will not offer you prayers, but I will offer empathy, all I can give. I hear in your words that there is conflict and struggle. I also hear love for your partner. I can offer that love is strong, even when challenged. It stands up to all sorts of tests. This is just a test of the emergency..ooops wrong test....but remember it is just a test. Breath and it will pass.

[shadesofgray21]

Welcome, Kelly. Let me just say, right now, that I'm giving a huge hug. I don't consider myself an ex-gay, but I have attempted to change my sexual orientation through prayer and discipline of my own accord. I'm going to say this in regard to the phone call you received:

"Pay no attention to that man on the other end of the receiver."

Comedic value aside, I am serious. As good as he may feel his intentions are, the way in which he presented that to you was most inconsiderate. Your relationship with God is YOURS, and your's alone. Let no man come between that.

Your entire situation is in my prayers. As for your relationship, everyone reaches times when they feel that the relationship itself is at the end of its rope, and yet some manage to keep persevering. I'm sure many of us here at this forum have come to a point to where we had experienced so much pain, so much hurt, so much struggle, that we feel as though there couldn't possibly be a God that loves and cares for us, if we are experiencing these awful things. From those moments of despair and desperation, true faith is then given a chance to flourish. In short, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and just know that God is going to hold your hand the entire way through, even if it may not feel as such.

You are in my thoughts & prayers, and know that you have found a wonderful place of support here. :) *another hug*

[Kelly]

Thanks. I want to hear that my job is to continue to love, continue to support. I keep getting hit over the head by old fundamentalist sermons about how wrong it is to be "unequally yoked." We've connected in so many ways and even have common ground spiritually, even though it doesn't look as familiar any more.

[Jamie McDaniel]

Philip Yancey pointed out an interesting thing in one of his books. The disciple Thomas stated he would never believe what the others believed until he saw a living, breathing, resurrected Jesus with his own eyes, touched him and confirmed the wounds. According to the gospels, Jesus did indeed come to Thomas so that he could get the evidence needed to accept the impossible. (I would find it easier to believe if he did that for me too. It's hard not to side with Thomas that there needs to be more evidence.) But what Yancey pointed out was that the others kept fellowship with Thomas when he was an "nonbeliever." They didn't break off their relationship with him, which is in contrast to how much of the church operates today.

[keltic63]

Philip Yancey pointed out an interesting thing in one of his books. The disciple Thomas stated he would never believe what the others believed until he saw a living, breathing, resurrected Jesus with his own eyes, touched him and confirmed the wounds. According to the gospels, Jesus did indeed come to Thomas so that he could get the evidence needed to accept the impossible. (I would find it easier to believe if he did that for me too. It's hard not to side with Thomas that there needs to be more evidence.) But what Yancey pointed out was that the others kept fellowship with Thomas when he was an "unbeliever." They didn't break off their relationship with him, which is in contrast to how much of the church operates today.


I haven't read his books, so I'm not sure if Philip Yancey makes this next point, but I imagine he does: even as Thomas doubted, or his faith failed him, Jesus came and revealed himself to Thomas. We don't deserve God's grace, we hear that a lot from the fundamentalists, what they fail to preach on is the fact that we also can't EARN it!

[labguy22]

Welcome Kelly, this is an awesome group of loving people here!
" What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder"
Congratulations on 12 years!!!

[antonyh]

Thanks. I want to hear that my job is to continue to love, continue to support. I keep getting hit over the head by old fundamentalist sermons about how wrong it is to be "unequally yoked." We've connected in so many ways and even have common ground spiritually, even though it doesn't look as familiar any more.

The love you have for your girlfriend IS the spirituality you have together. You don't need to add or take anything away from it. Don't poison the purity of your experience together with the untruths that often pour out of fundamentalist Christianity. Things may not look familiar anymore but that does not mean things are going badly.

Good luck with everything.

[tdogg]

Kelly, first let me welcome you to the forums!! So glad you found this place. There are so many loving, caring and compassionate (and sometimes funny!) people here, you'll find so many friends to talk with.

I was raised in a consevative Christian (Pentecostal) since a small child. I was fed the crap and lies and it took many many years for me to grow up, accept myself and get over it. I can't say my beliefs changed, I really didnt' agree or believe everything that was said to me. Although I may have nodded, my heart and brains were saying NO! But I still have my spiritual faith, the basic faith I felt so young and over the years. I refuse to let anyone take that way from me (it's a common tactic with the fundamentalists who want you to 'come back').

You can have your personal spiritual beliefs, and love the person you are, and the person you are with just are you are. Even if the person you are with doens't exactly share your beliefs. My partner and I don't exactly have the same spiritual beliefs, but we allow each other to be spiritually separate by being spiritual in our way, and then together by discussing our beliefs, respecting the other and being spiritual together where we have the same. It works great. Just discuss in love, give and demand space when you can't share, and then share when you can.

Glad you are here!!!

[paul]

I was so pleased to find this site and this forum. I found the site after frantically searching the internet for support as an ex ex-gay. I had just gotten a phone call from a man I hadn't spoken to in 10-years, who just wanted me to know that he had heard from "the Lord" that I needed to die to myself, leave my partner of 12 years, and my broken life. He heard from the Lord that I needed to become the woman God wanted me to be. Even though I hadn't heard any such thing from God, I found the part of me that shouldn't read horoscopes to be extremely vulnerable.

Though I do feel convinced that God loves me and has designed me to be the person I am, this did bring up other issues.

My partner is struggling with having any faith at all. Though we both thought she was, she is no longer what you could call Christian. She is willing to continue to attend church with me. I love her deeply and do not want to end our loving and fruitful relationship together.

Thoughts or prayers?

Welcome dear sweet Kelly,

The magic of magical thinking is that it cannot be traced to a source (i.e., it's not really magic, just a trick). Your 'friend' broke the commandment to not take the Lords name in vain. He took his belief, mixed it with indigestion (who knows?) and magically "heard from the Lord." Since his sense of hearing is so keen, perhaps he can get God to share the cure for cancer or something significant that can obviously be credited to God vs. some sanctimonious busybody who has nothing better to do but create specks to remove from others eyes. :mad: Sorry, the more I write and think about this, the more pissed I become.

Here is what I hear in your posts. You have a heart, a heart, that wants to do the right thing. It is very evident. If you want to use the bible as your guide, "...people look on the outward appearance, God judges the heart...." Point your friend over to I Corinthians 14: 22-25. Explain to him that his words are a clanging symbol, they are noise. Explain that if he wishes to be credited with hearing from the Lord as he vainly claims, he will have to do much better than qouting scripture about dying to self. Let him tell you the "secrets of [your] heart" if he wishes to support the claim that God told him so. While your at it, you can tell him that God told me to tell him to cut out his tongue because it offends (that's in the bible too).

You see? Any jerk, including me, can quote and impose scripture. The key to your life is what you want in your heart. Love is the rule.

[paul]

Philip Yancey pointed out an interesting thing in one of his books. The disciple Thomas stated he would never believe what the others believed until he saw a living, breathing, resurrected Jesus with his own eyes, touched him and confirmed the wounds. According to the gospels, Jesus did indeed come to Thomas so that he could get the evidence needed to accept the impossible. (I would find it easier to believe if he did that for me too. It's hard not to side with Thomas that there needs to be more evidence.) But what Yancey pointed out was that the others kept fellowship with Thomas when he was an "nonbeliever." They didn't break off their relationship with him, which is in contrast to how much of the church operates today.

Jamie,

Interesting point here. I've been thinking about the gist of this this week. I came out to my kids a year ago and they still want nothing to do with me unless I "repent." Having been a fundamentalist for 40 years, I can understand them. I even know the ways they reconcile their attitudes with the bible and their beliefs. I maintain there is something in the bible for everyone, even the person inclined to commit genocide...so there has to be more to the equation of successful living than following words carved in stone.

Thomas is a good example of inclusion vs. exclusion, thanks. My own thinking went to the teaching that "true religion is to visit the fatherless and those in prison." The "fatherless" is illigetimate and an outcast, as is the prisoner because of their crimes. Jesus ate with sinners to serve as an example, and seemed to save most of his criticism for the "whited sepulchers" (the religious of his day). Funny, Jesus had no "condem[nation]" for the adultress, but had quite a bit for the super religious.

[Kelly]

Many, many thanks Paul, tdogg, labbguy22, jamie, joe, antony, shadesofgray...thanks everyone. I'll admit, I'm new to "cybercommunity" and am still a face-to-face, pen-and-paper kind of gal. But you all have really buoyed me even from such a strange distance. All of you, regardless your spiritual path, have been Jesus for me this morning. My partner and had a long purposeful discussion last night and have purposed to be intentional about sharing our spiritual journeys and finding common ground wherever possible. What more can we both ask.

[Vanessa White]

First of all Kelly, the warmest of welcomes to you. :love::love::love:

I am so glad that you and your partner are finding yet another common ground to meet at, when it comes to something as significant as belief and sprituality. My partner and I are almost at 12 years, in 2008, and we have had our journeys, many of them, over the years when it came to finding common ground. Including about religion and faith. However, we both have realized that the more we discuss these differences and go on the journey side by side, TOGETHER, the more sweet the destination, as well as the journey itself. How wonderful for both of you to have one another to support.

As far as your "well meaning" male friend trying to get you to be "the woman God meant you to be"- put that right out of your mind. God intended you to be who you ARE, RIGHT NOW IN THIS MOMENT, WITH THIS WOMAN, SURROUNDED BY THIS LOVE.

By coming to SF, cyberspace or not, in many ways, you have come HOME. Feel the embrace of love and faith from all of us here. :love::pray::love:

[Zerbie]

Hi Kelly, welcome. :)

You've gotten great responses and the SF gang has pretty much covered everything.

Aside from the welcome, and the congratulations on 12 years, the only thing I have to say is to reiterate the "don't listen to the guy on the phone" statement. Seriously. Who is this guy? *He* knows God's path for *you* while you don't??? Ummmmm, nope. Even if he were correct, he clearly doesn't know how or when to deliver information, does he? Out of the blue, via telephone, after 10 years. That's just plain mean. We're to think someone that mean has God's secret confidence? The guy's head is full of garbage.

Don't think that other people have the answers, because they're just as confused as you, except those who are *more* confused. Really! :p Life is uncertain, and no one has answers or magic formulae. Listen to the spirit within you, because that is the one sure thing you have and will always have.

[mortensen_jon]

Great, just what we need; another well-meaning fundamentalist who has caused unneccesary pain in someone's life.

God didn't tell that man anything. That's just his fundamentalist peity speaking.

Frankly, I would have said, "God told me that you were going to call, and that I should just hang up on you." Next time, do it!

If you and your partner are looking for GLBT friendly churches, check out churches that are listed as Open and Affirming (like the UCC), or the MCC. Your loving and fruitful relationship is a blessing!!!!

[tdogg]

Exactly Kelly. If God wanted to tell you something important, God will definitely tell YOU not some third party. Who knows how that person would interpret the important news??? Thank him, ignore him and go on with your life with the love of your life!!!

[pnggrad79]

You can be the woman that God wants you to be as a lesbian. I can understand why your partner has issues with Christianity. A lot of gay people do and for good reason.

Don't listen to this guy. He is just denying what he is himself.

Be authentic. Live this part of who God intended you to be. Leaving your partner for this reason would devastate both of you.

I can't imagine my life without my wife, and to leave her to make someone else happy is without question just stupid. She loves me, she has been the best friend I have ever had, and puts up with my nonsense. Why walk away from that just to make someone who contributes nothing to my life happy? Does that please God? Not in the least.

Don't listen to this guy. He is misguided.

Meanwhile, prayers and blessings to you and your partner. :)

[BruceChris]

Most of the evidence that we have tells us that down through history, there have always been people of varying sexualities and gender identities. I have to believe that God made every one of us pretty much the way that we are, in that respect.

In todays world, there are those who would condemn us for being different, and they have often done so by quoting biblical passages that they give a very narrow, and very strict interpretation to. In Jesus time, there were those whom Jesus criticized for having just such a narrow interpretation of scripture. They were known as Pharisees, at the time. I am sure that modern day Pharisees would be extremely upset, and very much in denial of the suggestion that they are such people.

I am reminded of a bible verse, that I can't quite place, that says something to the effect that if you have faith, so as to move mountains, but have not love, you have nothing.

If you and your intended have such love, cherish it, and do not allow anyone one else to make you feel bad in any way about someone that you share such a precious gift with.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[tymejumper]

He heard from the Lord that I needed to become the woman God wanted me to be.



I think God is powerful enough that if he had a message for you, he would deliver it himself! :lol::lol:

Also, I think that we all have our doubts from time to time. Especially when we are confronted with Gods word or whatever. You have been with a person you love for 12 years and to throw that away would be an actual sin.. Hang tight and El and I will pray for you.:D

[Blockwell]

It has been my experience that people with a message for you from God are the same people who have difficulty following what they believe God wants for them. Why do I believe this? Because the man on the other end of the phone with message from God for you sounds suspiciously like me some twenty years ago.

[Kelly]

Many thanks to everyone again. Something I read in Anne Lamott's Plan B helped me immensely. (I think she's probably quoting someone else.) "The opposite of faith isn't doubt but certainty." We have today. Even Jesus indicated we shouldn't try to think or worry any farther than that. If we do we miss our life in the process. Some other things I'm relearning. We can't think our purpose is to be good boys and girls at the expense of being our true God-made selves. Hardest of all, we can't make everyone agree with or even like us.

[paul]

Many thanks to everyone again. Something I read in Anne Lamott's Plan B helped me immensely. (I think she's probably quoting someone else.) "The opposite of faith isn't doubt but certainty." We have today. Even Jesus indicated we shouldn't try to think or worry any farther than that. If we do we miss our life in the process. Some other things I'm relearning. We can't think our purpose is to be good boys and girls at the expense of being our true God-made selves. Hardest of all, we can't make everyone agree with or even like us.

I like the quote from Anne Lamott. Walk the path of "faith" in sincerity for any length of time and it becomes evident that doubt, and questions are a healthy, honest part of the process. For example, in the bible, the Pharisees could not discern the son of God when he is was right in front of them. They were blinded by their "certainty." You further site Jesus' teaching of one day at a time. That teaching includes trust in a "heavenly father" vs. following a book of rules.

The modern twist on the Pharisee is someone like your 'friend' who is filled with rules vs. the Holy Spirit, then magically when "praying" hears from God what they read, just how they read it. If this person was indeed a person of faith, their attitude would be mixed with doubt. Instead he confidently thrust a sword into your heart. Interesting he came in the name of the one who said: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have life more abundantly..." and replaced that message with one of "death."

[Jennifer5]

Welcome to Soulforce Kelly :wave:

[lakewinnie]

I was so pleased to find this site and this forum. I found the site after frantically searching the internet for support as an ex ex-gay. I had just gotten a phone call from a man I hadn't spoken to in 10-years, who just wanted me to know that he had heard from "the Lord" that I needed to die to myself, leave my partner of 12 years, and my broken life. He heard from the Lord that I needed to become the woman God wanted me to be. Even though I hadn't heard any such thing from God, I found the part of me that shouldn't read horoscopes to be extremely vulnerable.

Though I do feel convinced that God loves me and has designed me to be the person I am, this did bring up other issues.

My partner is struggling with having any faith at all. Though we both thought she was, she is no longer what you could call Christian. She is willing to continue to attend church with me. I love her deeply and do not want to end our loving and fruitful relationship together.

Thoughts or prayers?
I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I know how hard life can get, just remember God will never give up on you. He Loves all of us Beautiful people. Maybe you can find a United Church of Christ to attend to get some much needed support. I wish you the best of Luck.

[Gennee]

My only thought is to keep loving your partner and give your partner the freedom to find her own spiritual path.

Welcome to Soulforce.


Sound advice. I will keep both of you in prayer.

:pray::love:


Gennee

[HarmlessEccentric]

Just say the word, and slip me his number or address in IM, and I will call him, a total stranger with a message from God that he needs to beware, because speaking falsely for God is violating the commandment which forbids taking the Lord's name in vain.