dawn stefanowicz

[inca nitta]

I just saw a website of Dawn Stefanowicz, whose link I dared not to post, because most likely it would violate the forum's guidelines. But I would like to know from those who are aware of who she is and what she does: what do ya'll think? Should she be taken seriously? If yes, to what extent? Does anybody think that she is just a hateful antigay person promoting her vicious agenda? Or maybe she just had a bad experience with her parents?

Any thoughts, comments, reflections.

thanks,

Inca Nitta.

[keltic63]

I googled her, and after reading the previews of the search results I remembered the story. She was raised by gay parents and is claiming that her life is a wreck because of it. She has a book coming out (or is already out) and it uses her personal story to affirm every anti-gay speaking point the American Family Association has ever made. We are then to believe that because her life is a mess and that she had gay parents, that gay parents are bad.

the problem with that equation is that if a person has a messed up life, and has straight parents who behaved badly, then all heterosexual parents are bad parents.

I think that this is fairly easy to see, but of course, when she appears on Fox, or 700 Club, or Focus on the Family, no one will think to mention all the messed up kids of straight parents.

[tdogg]

WAit till Bill O'Reilly has her on his show!

These are the kind of facts that we need to be educating the general non-informed public regarding, but how do we do that? We don't have a 700 club of our own, with our own TV station. We likely woudn't get many to watch anything we could possibly put on Logo or HERE. Articles, letters in the newspaper? They are basically rebutted by the general ignorant (I say that in the nicest way) people who have no clue.

It's frustrating. They won't read our books or watch our shows. They only stick to their own and believe everything that is said, ignoring the facts and evident to follow someone's personal issue bandwagon which more often than not is a lie.

I think the answer lies in coming out, living out and living proud. That's the only way we can really continue to get the message out and educate people.

[pnggrad79]

I think you are absolutely right Keltic. Gay parents can mess up kids just like straight parents can, and most certainly do. I am sick to death of the implication that just because parents are gay, that that automatically makes a kids life bad. That is faulty generalization, but that is exactly what people like Dobson will do. I can cite example after example, as I know you can, of kids who have been royally screwed up because of straight parents, and it had nothing to do with their sexuality or lack there of. Most gay people I know, unlike myself, don't have children (present company excluded) What Dobson doesn't realize is that gay people have the same issues straight people have, only greater. Because we can't get married in this country and our relationships aren't recognized on so many levels, it isn't surprising to me that that doesn't filter down into our children's lives. But Dobson has the nerve to point a finger at me, and say it is because I am gay?

My kids may have their faults, but by and large, they are good kids. Keltic, I have seen the wonderful job you have done with your kids. Whoever this Dawn person is, she needs to take responsibility for her own actions and quit pointing fingers. She happened to grow up with gay parents, and she didn't come with an instruction manual, and I am sure they did the best they could with the resources they came with, both mentally and emotionally. That is not to say they were perfect or did everything right, but I don't know any parent that is perfect.

My straight laced, Christian, Baptist sister has a son, who she doesn't know where he is most of the time, and worries about what he is doing, and for good reason. He made choices that he wasn't raised with. But you can't judge my sister by her son, or her parenting abilities. She did the best with what she had at the time. He made his own choices when he got older.

This chick Dawn needs to go on with herself and be quiet. :rolleyes:

[RedneckDyke]

I listen to a good local talk radio program here. One of the hosts says that when people watch fox news or shows like coulter or the 700 club that they are looking for AFFIRMATION not INFORMATION. Meaning that they have their mind made up and are looking for someone on TV to agree with them.
As sad as this book is, I take comfort in that she is probably not going to change many minds but is preaching to the fundie choir.

[BruceChris]

It would seem to me that someone should take Dawn by the scruff of the neck, and show her some disfunctional straight families. Yes, there are disfunctional families out there, gay and straight. And there are very warm and supportive families, gay and straight. She is being extreemly dishonest, by not looking at all of the data.

Perhaps she should consider that disfunctional straight families often bring more than their share of children into the world. Disfunctional people like sex at least as much as the rest of us, but it takes a lot more focused effort for a gay or lesbian couple to have a child. I would have to assume that proportionately, there are far fewer disfunctional gay couples than straight bringing children into the world. I would tend to see that as a no brainer.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[Emproph]

Study: HIV-positive Practicing Homosexual Men 9000% More Likely to Develop Anal Cancer

Edit (http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/10/montgomery-county-sex-ed-curriculum-cleared-for-take-off/#comment-31459):From the American Cancer Society (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_1X_What_are_the_key_statistics_for_Anal_Ca ncer_47.asp?sitearea=):
Anal cancer is found mainly in adults, with the average age being in the early 60s. The disease affects women somewhat more often than men. Of the 4,650 new cases, 2,750 will occur in women and 1,900 in men.

Most doctors think that squamous cell anal cancer is caused by a type of this virus called HPV-16 (Human Papilloma Virus). [end edit]

And who can resist the ever -- not Paul Cameron -- John R. Diggs:
The Health Risks of Gay Sex John R. Diggs, JR. M.D.
___

It's little more than a hate site. Those are only two examples, and those were only titles.

Any complaint of bad parenting, coming from her, that may have been the direct result of same gender attraction, in and of itself, is quickly and decidedly nullified by her anti-gay stance. She's not against bad parenting, she's against gay parenting.

Thus the need to lie.

[pnggrad79]

It would seem to me that someone should take Dawn by the scruff of the neck, and show her some disfunctional straight families. Yes, there are disfunctional families out there, gay and straight. And there are very warm and supportive families, gay and straight. She is being extreemly dishonest, by not looking at all of the data.

Perhaps she should consider that disfunctional straight families often bring more than their share of children into the world. Disfunctional people like sex at least as much as the rest of us, but it takes a lot more focused effort for a gay or lesbian couple to have a child. I would have to assume that proportionately, there are far fewer disfunctional gay couples than straight bringing children into the world. I would tend to see that as a no brainer.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

I challenge this Dawn person to enter into any public school in America and you will see the results of dysfunctional straight parenting. I have so much of that in my class, and yet these people are allowed to reproduce without reservation because they are straight and it doesn't matter that they are producing children with no more intelligence than their parents. Moreover, I can't even begin to name the parents who are locked up in jail for repeated offenses, alcoholism, drug abuse, you name it. Half my children go to visit parents in jail. Now, tell me that straight people should have the exclusive right to reproduce? I think they need an application process and someone to look them in the face and say, "What makes you think this is a good idea?" :rolleyes:

[ladyinred]

Wouldn't it be nice though if we had the leverage and coverage of the 700 club?

[Vanessa White]

Considering that she has made appearances all over the US as well. Once again, other issues related to her having a messed up childhood are just generalized to her being screwed up because she was raised by her gay dad. It really is just one more clear, harsh example of how "facts" get skewed to satisfy an agenda. The thing is, we as LGBT persons get accused of doing the same thing much of the time, but we have so much more at stake I believe, we are very clear about stating facts and backing up our statements with sources. Not all of the time, but at least we aspire to that. This is inflammatory, and agreed with Emproph, nothing more than a hate site. I've seen it and that is all I need to do. :mad:

[tdogg]

Wouldn't it be nice though if we had the leverage and coverage of the 700 club?

Yes it would be nice, and it would be the moment when we really start making some progress!! But we don't have jillions of dollars to put into TV programming, we are busy living our lives, helping others and paying our bills.

[keltic63]

Wouldn't it be nice though if we had the leverage and coverage of the 700 club?

Yes it would be nice, and it would be the moment when we really start making some progress!! But we don't have jillions of dollars to put into TV programming, we are busy living our lives, helping others and paying our bills.


Now you've got me thinking. Why don't we have the coverage, and thus the leverage, of groups like the 700 Club and Focus on the Family.

I'm not sure that lack of money is the answer, and I'm not sure that our individual busy lives is exactly it. Afterall, some of us could be busy producing influential gay-oriented talk shows. I think the answer lies in at least 2 reasons: Demographics- Evangelical Christians accounted for 26% of the US population in 2004, according to Wikipedia; and an AGENDA- Evangelicals have a very clearly defined agenda that includes evangelizing the world, influencing others to believe and worship as they do, and they truly believe that they are involved in a spiritual battle that has eternal consequences. Some even believe that it is their job to prepare the earth for the second coming of Christ; that Jesus can not and will not return until certain requirements are met and it is the Christian's job to bring the world into submission, ready to hand it over to Christ.

Demographics for the lgbt community puts us anywhere from 1-10% of the population, so immediately the demand for such a television show would be much less than the evangelical talk show. Contrary to what the evangelicals/fundies would have you believe, there is no gay agenda. We are not a focused group of people. We have no desire to recruit others, and much like the straight population, there is a great variety of interests among the glbt population.

[tdogg]

I would have to agree with you Keltic. And I also think, if we did pool the money together, it likely would be used for more compassionate purposes (hence the helping others).

I had no idea regarding the 26%. That's a huge population, which would account for the enormous $$ being given to the televanglists. Ok, so I'm dreaming here, but let me run with it for a second - sometimes when criminals are caught, especially with white collar crime, they must pay restitution. So, one day, justice is served and those who have oppressed us for so long must now pay restitution....we get our 700 club (let's not call it that) and get to put on our GLBT telethons (Ok, I AlMOST wrote 'telethongs' which is probably more applicable!). But then, if we got that far, we wouldn't need the TV coverage...

[keltic63]

I would have to agree with you Keltic. And I also think, if we did pool the money together, it likely would be used for more compassionate purposes (hence the helping others).

I had no idea regarding the 26%. That's a huge population, which would account for the enormous $$ being given to the televanglists. Ok, so I'm dreaming here, but let me run with it for a second - sometimes when criminals are caught, especially with white collar crime, they must pay restitution. So, one day, justice is served and those who have oppressed us for so long must now pay restitution....we get our 700 club (let's not call it that) and get to put on our GLBT telethons (Ok, I AlMOST wrote 'telethongs' which is probably more applicable!). But then, if we got that far, we wouldn't need the TV coverage...

ok, but if it's a teleTHONG, there's got to be some coverage! :lol:

[BruceChris]

Not even on Baywatch.

P&L, BC

[ladyinred]

Another thing to consider is these evangelicals often happen to have help from their big corporate friends,Coors for example. They just don't get money from ordinary people

[ladyinred]

As far as the daughter of the gay dad, she's like one needle in the hay stack, now if there were alot like her I'd be concerned, but it does give the rr more ammunition for their propaganda spinning machine. and they will of course use it to their advantage and ditort things as usual. One person hardly represents the whole.

[tdogg]

Not even on Baywatch.

P&L, BC

Well darn it, about time to change all that. I say all us GLBT (and anyone else) put on our thongs and get some coverage!!! :eek::D:p

[Alecto]

I thought that was the point...it's difficult to do both.

[Emproph]

I just saw a website of Dawn Stefanowicz, whose link I dared not to post, because most likely it would violate the forum's guidelines. But I would like to know from those who are aware of who she is and what she does: what do ya'll think? Should she be taken seriously? If yes, to what extent? Does anybody think that she is just a hateful antigay person promoting her vicious agenda? Or maybe she just had a bad experience with her parents?

Any thoughts, comments, reflections.

thanks,

Inca Nitta.

So what do you think Inca Nitta?

[inca nitta]

So what do you think Inca Nitta?

I think that Dawn's case is very complicated, therefore very interesting and that in reality, she is fighting with her own father and the pain he brought her rather than with all gay parents. I also see clearly that she has been wounded severely, on the emotional level and definitely needs help. She deserves sympathy more than she deserves condemnation.

[Emproph]

I think that Dawn's case is very complicated, therefore very interesting and that in reality, she is fighting with her own father and the pain he brought her rather than with all gay parents. I also see clearly that she has been wounded severely, on the emotional level and definitely needs help. She deserves sympathy more than she deserves condemnation.

I was also reading a part of the excerpt from her book that she came to forgive and love her father. Which was nice to know, in that she doesn't seem to be hateful so much as she skews anti-gay hateful. Which given her experience, is understandable.

To be continued here (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?p=48972#post48972)...

[Daniel]

I googled her, and after reading the previews of the search results I remembered the story. She was raised by gay parents and is claiming that her life is a wreck because of it. She has a book coming out (or is already out) and it uses her personal story to affirm every anti-gay speaking point the American Family Association has ever made. We are then to believe that because her life is a mess and that she had gay parents, that gay parents are bad.

the problem with that equation is that if a person has a messed up life, and has straight parents who behaved badly, then all heterosexual parents are bad parents.

I think that this is fairly easy to see, but of course, when she appears on Fox, or 700 Club, or Focus on the Family, no one will think to mention all the messed up kids of straight parents.

Very well said Steve! If one can tar with the widest brush, well, what does that say? This tells me that the Lady Dawn is attempting to make her story a universal one: ie all gay parents are bad, gay marriage should be outlawed. Forgetting, or course, those 'loving' straight parents who have thrown their kids to the curbside, as another thread on this site has mentioned (a third of kids on the streets of NYC are gay). While Miss Dawn's experience as the child of a messed-up gay man is undoubtedly real, her reality is not everyone else's reality. The problem here is her self-imposed myopia.


Any complaint of bad parenting, coming from her, that may have been the direct result of same gender attraction, in and of itself, is quickly and decidedly nullified by her anti-gay stance. She's not against bad parenting, she's against gay parenting

For what I've read, this sounds like a fair observation.

Now you've got me thinking. Why don't we have the coverage, and thus the leverage, of groups like the 700 Club and Focus on the Family.

We do actually.

I watch the Gay Cable Network here at 11 PM on thursday night. Any Humm and Ann Northrop cover cases such as this as well as a vast amount of gay news. Andy is an atheist, who grew catholic, while Ann is an agnostic. They are both activists of long standing here in NYC. It's all there if one watches weekly. Of course, this is a cable show, not on one of the big channels. One often gets a behind the scene view of things aas well. And the interviews with the movers and shakers in gay achivism are often quite moving. If you don't have this show in your area: petition for it!

I think that Dawn's case is very complicated, therefore very interesting and that in reality, she is fighting with her own father and the pain he brought her rather than with all gay parents. I also see clearly that she has been wounded severely, on the emotional level and definitely needs help. She deserves sympathy more than she deserves condemnation.

She needs counseling as well as something more than 'forgiveness', which more than often in Christian terms (I hope I won't have bricks thrown at me for sayiing this), keep one's 'ego' structure intact. By that I mean, the offending party is seen in a way which only relates to the person who feels victimized (ego vs ego). But there is something deeper, I feel, which needs attention (and this comes from a Buddhist perspective), and this is an awareness of the suffering of the perpetrator. My sense, and experience, tells me that real healing starts to take place when the 'victim' is able to see that the person who has victimized one is a victim him/herself. This kind of view isn't easy to come to. It leads one -eventually- to 'Getting Your Parents Off the Hook'.

One of the huge first steps in growing up.

While one should recognize the real problems that result from the interaction one has (and doens't have) with a parent, at some point, for one to become a fully functioning adult, one has to take one's parents' (or whoever the authority figure is) off the hook. If this isn't done, then one simply goes through life with the refrain: 'If only such and such hadn't happened I would be happy...I would be somebody...I.. I.. I..I ..I . It can even become a reason (as Stephen Sondheim has said in a song) 'not to move'.

It' bloody hard, but I feel that this is the hurdle that has to get gotten over.

I was also reading a part of the excerpt from her book that she came to forgive and love her father. Which was nice to know, in that she doesn't seem to be hateful so much as she skews anti-gay hateful. Which given her experience, is understandable.


And if she has really gotten over the matter and can love her father...well...why all the anti-gay crap? One could say that the oven is on but the bird isn't done yet. It takes a fair amount of heat to get tender.

I mention the above perspective as I anticipate seeing my own family for the Holiday's. My Dad will be 80, and there were many years there when I blamed him for a lot of stuff- and rightly so. But at some point during my 30's, an angel must have spoken in my ear, because I woke up one morning with the realization that I was the one who had to start telling me parents that I loved them, rather than wait around and bitch and moan about the lack thereoff.

I had to get them off the hook. The thinking being: those who know better do better. So I starting telling them that I loved them.

Well....years have passed, and let's be clear, things aren't all hunky dory, we don't sit around staring into each other's eye's telling each other how much we've grown and boy wasn't that a mistake blah blah blah and I'm sorry for all the shit I caused you, but there is something of a relationship between us now by virtue of those three small words. Have we dissected the past? Put blame where blame once wanted to be made? No. I've figured out that it isn't worth it. If my parent's were in their 50's or 60's that would be a different matter. We would have some time to work through the debris of a psychic bomb being thrown into the room (my siblings, however, are entirely different matter). Now in the twilight of their lives, when they are looking forward, not backward, I feel that's it's my role is simply listen to and love the two people who brought me into the world: to give to them what I have wanted from them. And as the saying goes: what one sends out comes back to one. Perhaps not in the one wants, but that's not for me us control.

I dearly hope Miss Dawn will be able to see through her pain and suffering as well as the pain and suffering of her Dad. There's a reason why people do what they do.

This is having compassion for one's self and others. And I belief this to be the essence of the Gold Rule. It's also what the Buddha taught.