How do you feel about drinking?

[pnggrad79]

My 20 year old daughter went to see her dad last weekend, and my ex is trying to stay married to his new wife. She has two dogs which she apparently allows to run wild, pee all over the carpet, and generally rule the house. (Now, in the 19 years I was married to him, he wouldn't allow me to have a dog, much less one in the house.) Anyway, the 20 yo has an anxiety problem which surfaces when she gets nauseous because she is deathly afraid of vomiting. So the smell made her nauseous and so she went into panic attack. She texted me, I told her to take her meds and talk herself down. She complained about the horrendous dog pee odor, and that it was making her sick. I suggested she call one of her friends to see if she could spend the night there instead of her dad's house. So she hooked up with her cousin and his gf. They went out to a Mexican restaurant where her cousin not only bought her two daiquiries, but encouraged her to drink them, after she had taken her anti-depressants and a sedative.

I freaked out when she told me. I explained to her that drinking and taking medication could really mess her up, and she said that the two drinks made her feel better (less anxious). I freaked out again afraid that now she associates feeling better with alcohol.

I don't drink for two reasons. One, I know I have an addictive personality and if I drank and liked it, I would develop a drinking problem. Second, I don't want that in my life. I live just fine without it and don't need it to have a good time. I don't mind if other people drink around me, I just don't. But my daughter on medication drinking, is a whole other issue.

First of all, I don't want her opening that door, so to speak. She has an anxiety disorder and pouring alcohol into the mix will only make it worse, if not potentially deadly.

I told her that if she was going to choose to drink while on medication for anxiety, that I could not sit idly by and watch her develop a drinking problem. I told her that she would have to move out because I don't want alcohol in my house. And I don't want my daughters drinking in my house.

Am I freaking out too much? Did I do the right thing?

Sometimes I wish they were 3 years old again. I don't like being a parent anymore! This is too much!:unhappy:

[keltic63]

I'm gonna go with over-reaction. I appreciate your strong opinion, and your reason for not drinking. But did you really want to send the message that your daughter does this one thing you disapprove of that she has to leave the house???

I think it was wrong for the cousin to buy the alcohol and entice your daughter to drink. otoh, at age 20, I'd be surprised if that was her first drink. (I could be wrong) I've just assumed my daughter and son have been drinking for a year or 2 now, so I do a lot of talking about responsibility, not getting into a car with someone who's been drinking, not drinking to the point of getting plastered, etc. I've even given my daughter a drink here at my house, knowing that I am the one who can keep an eye on her, and drive her home, or make her stay here.

the medication: find out if her medication reacts with alcohol! if it does, read about the side effects and make that very clear to her.

make 'em move out because of some drinking??? that's too strong. keep 'em close so you can monitor that kind of behavior ;)

[dsdrane]

Take it for what it's worth, but, with all due respect, I think you're way over-reacting.

If you don't want alcohol in the house, that's one thing; your house, your rules. But threatening to kick her out if she drinks at all is quite another.

Here's what I'm curious about: why are you so fast to leap to the conclusion that any alcohol intake will inevitably and inexorably lead to a drinking problem? I understand that's your fear about yourself, but now you're projecting it onto your daughter.

Ideally, it's not a great idea to drink with any medication, and even more so with certain medications. I can tell you from personal experience, however, that I regularly do both and have lived to tell you about it. I, too, take medication -- admittedly not a lot -- for PTSD and have my nightly tipple.

I just don't drive or operate any heavy machinery.;)

The bottom line is that everyone reacts differently. Soon she will be 21 and won't need your permission, so wouldn't it be better to put in place a more reasonable and realistic dynamic now while you still can?

[Progo35]

pnggrad79:

I wouldn't tell her that she'd have to leave the house and that two drinks means that she will develop a drinking problem. I think that a better way of handling the situation would be to say something like, "Honey, I'm very disapointed that your cousin encouraged you to drink. That was very wrong of her to give alcohol to a person who was underage. If that happens again, please say no, especially if you've just taken medication."

The other thing that I would consider is how her cousin and the cousin's bf acted in respect to thier own drinking. Did they drink and then drive, particularly with your daughter in their car? That is another story. Is drinking something they do frequently and does your daughter spend a lot of time with them? Or, did they not understand how this would conflict with your family's values and not see giving her the drinks as wrong? Did they know that she had just taken medication? Perhaps they would not have encouraged her to drink if they had known about this. These are all factors to consider in responding to the situation, and I would encourage you to talk to your daughter's cousin about it.

As to the drinking's physical effects, even though the situation was a show of incredible irresponsibility on the part of her cousin, noting the effect of two drinks will not make someone turn to drinking as a solution to problems. Yes, it is generally common knowledge that alcohol can have a calming effect, so your daughter actually experiencing this doesn't necessarily change her intellectual understanding of what alcohol does. It is different in that she's actually experienced it, but just having that experience does not lead to drinking. I would address that aspect of the experience by telling her the scientific reasons for this and talking to her about not using alcohol to achieve this effect when she feels upset. I don't think that total abstinence is necessarily to maintain sobriety, an occasional drink or two in a safe environment when she's old enough is okay, as long as she does not use that as a solution to her problems. But, her actions from the other night do not indicate this because they are not part of a pattern.

Now, if alcoholism runs in your family, that is something that I would tell your daughter. That would make addiction a greater concern and she should know about it so that she can make an informed decision about whether to abstain from alcohol completely or talk with a counselor about other methods for preventing the disease.

I honestly would consider apologizing for bringing "you'd have to move out" into the conversation: frankly, I've had similar conversations with my mom about other things and these are the times when I've considered her behavior to be irrational and to somewhat discount what she's saying. When she addresses concerns about what I do or don't do calmly, than the conversation is much more edifying for everyone involved. Bringing the issue of moving out into a conversation after two drinks sends the message that you expect your daughter to make good decisions all the time and that you cannot handle her making bad decisions. If your daughter feels that telling you about her life ellicits frightening responses from you, she will be less likely to be honest and forthright about her life.

So, I think that it was good for you to express your disaproval of what her cousins did strongly and to talk to her about the dangers of drinking while on certain medications, particularly right after taking them. But, you needn't have associated her two drinks with the prediction/fear that she will develop alcoholism and have to be evicted from your house in a show of tough love. This was going way too far in a first time discussion about drinking.

Next time, I would simply exert a calmer demeanor and talk to your daughter as both an authority figure and a confident, something that she will be more likely to respond positively to. Lastly, I agree with Keltic: I would find out about how alcohol interacts with her medication with your daughter so that she makes a good decision cocnernign her health.

[NathanATX]

Yes, you are absolutely overreacting. Of course, I am a child-less young adult who hasn't yet had to do with the reality of parenting...

You need to get yourself educated in a hurry. Contact an Alcohol Anonymous chapter, a youth drug & alcohol program, your daughter's school's Student Resource Officer, etc.

Mixing alcohol and medication is dangerous and possibly deadly. You need to be able to enforce your rules with wisdom and tough love. Kicking her out would be the worst thing you could do.

You need to educate yourself and be able to educate her. Maybe force her to volunteer at a homeless shelter so she can see the dangers of addiction and irresponsibly managing your mental health.

The important thing to remember is that you love her so much and want her to have a wonderful, happy & healthy life. If you are motivated by that ethos, instead of fear and panic, you will be amazing.

love you,
Nate

[RedneckDyke]

I agree with everyone here. I don't think you should kick her out just for drinking a couple daquiers at a restaraunt. You should tell her to talk to her doctor about reactions of her meds with alcohol. That can be serious.

[ladyinred]

I'll have to agree, perhaps you should talk to your daughter and explain your concern for her drinking while on medications, a heart to heart, let her know you love her and just want to protect her and want what's best for her. Doubfully that kicking her out will have a positive effect on your relationship, but will probably make her resent you even more, and less likely to listen to you. Do you want that? I also think Progo made some good points on this as well.

Alcoholism has run in my family, my dad drank too heavily, and when I was younger I went out alot with friends to bars to drink. I now drink in moderation, I totally lost all desire to drink after the birth of my child and now have a drink very ocassionally. Note I did not drink or smoke during my pregnancy,I quit smoking 6 months before I became pregnant ,even though it wasn't a planned pregancy. Addictions also run in my family, my mother became addicted to pain killers and other drugs and it was a nightmare. I finally had one doctor who would cooperate me and refused to give her pain killers on demand,(He did presribe medication for pain but monitored her on them.

I put a stop to other doctors writing prescriptions to her, because she was trying to get more drugs from them even in the hospital )She was detoxed in the hospital while recuperating from back surgery. I understood my mother was dealing with pain. But she had so many drugs prescribed to her she was a danger to herself and others and was actually stopped by the police while on these medications. Again the doctor monitored and limited her access to such drugs.

When she came home she threw a fit when I threw all her old meds down the toilet. But she eventually got the picture and never went back to her addiction. I basically had to be a little rough with my mom ,I said that we might be forced to put her in a nursing home if she continued to do what she was doing because she was endangering her own life and others,I asked her if she wanted to lose her independent lifestyle and be in that situation(She did not, and not something I wanted to do to my mother but it was a wake up call to her,I wanted her to be able to live independently and not end up in one) I also told her if she needed some help I would try to find a geriatric doctor(Part of her problem was depression with being ill, which I also felt she needed help with) So I can understand the concern for addiction and drugs mixed with alcohol can have a synergistic effect and intensify the effects of meds in a dangerous way.

For my mother who was on muscle relaxers and an assortment of painkillers, I was afraid she had overdosed one time , my friend who was nurse explained how these drugs combined can have a synergistic affect that makes them even more potent and dangerous. So there is a legitimate concern on pnGrads part about this. Perhaps she's scared about the consequences of her daughters behavior and didn't know what else to do or how else to react at the time.

[scott snedeker]

I agree with all but don't beat yourself up. You communicated how much this upsets you. Message received. Now it's her turn to react. She knows that you will not tolerate being an enabling codependent.

Alcohol works just lik valium or xanax on the "fight or flight" part of the brain called the locus cereleus. So while present it will sedate and relieve symptoms. There is an adaptation to the presence of alcohol when it is consumed frequently.

Imagine a primitive people, it's december and they are starving. The only food around is rotten (fermented) friut. They eat it and for the first time get drunk off their petards. A predator sees weakened defenseless prey and picks off an easy homo sapien meal. Except that some members of the troop have been eating fermented fruit for weeks. The brain has compensated for the sedating effcts of alcohol and can "Hold their liquor" and survive to pass on this trait.

The mechanism is a receptor down regulation on the locus cereleus resulting in increased vigilance. This receptor developed under cicumstances of tiny amounts of alcohol and not the huge amounts in alcoholic beverages. Overstimulation of this adaptation results in worse organically mediated anxiety. The receptor Is called GABA-1 and any drug or substances that works by inhibiting this receptor is addictive, Because the recptor itself is the reason for the addiction.

It is repeated exposure, not occasional that causes this. The slippery slope is, however, the definition of "Occasional"

You have done well. She is gonna make it through the bumps.

[pnggrad79]

Maybe I did overreact, but my daughter has exhibited compulsive, addictive behavior in the past associated with whatever makes her feel better. When she piped up and said, "I felt much better after I had the drinks" I froze with fear. She now associates alcohol with making her feel better. To me, that translates into, "when I feel anxious, I don't need therapy, or these anti-anxiety drugs, I can just go drink and that will make everything peachy for me". That is how she thinks! She has in the past done whatever it takes to make her feel better, or reduce the anxiety and I personally don't think drinking is in anyway shape or form the answer to it. Plus she is lazy and if she figures out that she doesn't have to work at it to control her anxiety, she will take the path of least resistance and drink to calm herself down. I don't want that for my daughter.

Plus alcoholism runs rampant in my family and I have had 3 grandfathers, (1 great) die of cirrhosis of the liver from drinking.

It is just a door my daughter doesn't need to walk through and I know enough about alcohol to know that 2 drinks soon turns into 3 and then 4...
Before long, with an addictive personality, you have a bona fide drinking problem and she doesn't need that on top of anxiety issues.

If I thought she had better control over it, it wouldn't be a big deal, but I know my daughter well enough to know that she wouldn't be in control. She hasn't demonstrated it thus far to prove to me that it wouldn't be a problem. I know people who can drink and they know their limits. My daughter doesn't have that kind of self control. That is what scares me about this whole thing.

The issue of her leaving if she drinks, if I lay down the rule that there is no drinking in my house, and I turn around and allow it, what message am I sending her? That my rules mean nothing? She knew before she drank, how I felt about it.

With any addiction, it starts somewhere. It is fed by the need to feel good. And it is insidious. It takes over before you know it, and when you realize it, you are helpless to do anything about it. That's why people who smoke wish they had never started. Alcoholics wish they had never taken that first drink. Drug addicts wish they hadn't had that joint, or that snort. It has to start somewhere. I know that when she turns 21 I can't say a damn thing to her, except go live on your own. She may very well thumb her nose at me and say, "I can do whatever I want when I am 21". Yes, she can, but not around me.

[ladyinred]

Scotty with all due respect, ocassionally means rarely, I might have one drink every 6 months if that. Alcohol for me is not an addiction, but smoking is. I had quit for ten years and went back to it, and then tried to quit on and off through out the years. And yes it is a problem... and something I need to do something about.
I started smoking at a pretty early age and like pngrad said, it's better if you had never even picked up a cigarette and started. Often smokers pick up that cigarette to deal with stress.. But it is still as addictive as alcohol and other things.

Plus being 21 and over Pngrad may not be able to do alot about her behavior, I could with my mother because I was given medical power of attorney over her by her.Plus I had a nurse at the hospital tell me everything she was up to, and I kept that between me and the nurse, never told anyone, but they were extremely concerned about what she was doing and how it was affecting her and I didn't want them to get in trouble with the hospital or doctors , but they alerted me to the fact that different docs were prescribing different meds.

[NathanATX]

Maybe I did overreact, but my daughter has exhibited compulsive, addictive behavior in the past associated with whatever makes her feel better. When she piped up and said, "I felt much better after I had the drinks" I froze with fear. She now associates alcohol with making her feel better. To me, that translates into, "when I feel anxious, I don't need therapy, or these anti-anxiety drugs, I can just go drink and that will make everything peachy for me". That is how she thinks! She has in the past done whatever it takes to make her feel better, or reduce the anxiety and I personally don't think drinking is in anyway shape or form the answer to it. Plus she is lazy and if she figures out that she doesn't have to work at it to control her anxiety, she will take the path of least resistance and drink to calm herself down. I don't want that for my daughter.

Plus alcoholism runs rampant in my family and I have had 3 grandfathers, (1 great) die of cirrhosis of the liver from drinking.

It is just a door my daughter doesn't need to walk through and I know enough about alcohol to know that 2 drinks soon turns into 3 and then 4...
Before long, with an addictive personality, you have a bona fide drinking problem and she doesn't need that on top of anxiety issues.

If I thought she had better control over it, it wouldn't be a big deal, but I know my daughter well enough to know that she wouldn't be in control. She hasn't demonstrated it thus far to prove to me that it wouldn't be a problem. I know people who can drink and they know their limits. My daughter doesn't have that kind of self control. That is what scares me about this whole thing.

The issue of her leaving if she drinks, if I lay down the rule that there is no drinking in my house, and I turn around and allow it, what message am I sending her? That my rules mean nothing? She knew before she drank, how I felt about it.

With any addiction, it starts somewhere. It is fed by the need to feel good. And it is insidious. It takes over before you know it, and when you realize it, you are helpless to do anything about it. That's why people who smoke wish they had never started. Alcoholics wish they had never taken that first drink. Drug addicts wish they hadn't had that joint, or that snort. It has to start somewhere. I know that when she turns 21 I can't say a damn thing to her, except go live on your own. She may very well thumb her nose at me and say, "I can do whatever I want when I am 21". Yes, she can, but not around me.

Dear one,
You are the parent. You have the prerogative to change your mind and to reevaluate your decisions.

She is a minor and is your legal responsibility. She doesn't get a say in your decisions.

Beyond that...

If you are making decisions that affect her because of your fear, she will sense it and will then dismiss the underlying truth and logic. You are in a transition with her as she prepares to become an adult and make all of her own choices.

Right now, you still get to make her choices for her... but the greater good would be to guide her to learn to make the right choices for herself.

Schedule some interviews/meetings for her to participate in... with an AA leader, with a youth substance abuse counselor, with your doctor, etc... Make her get educated about the very real dangers of her behavior.

Then enforce a 'no alcohol' rule for her. If she breaks the rule, have pre-set, pre-disclosed punishments. If things don't improve, get her in therapy. If she's rebellious or possibly already addicted, get her treatment while you still can.

[ladyinred]

The only thing is dealing with teens myself, is that they don't always listen to their parents, and out of the house and not where you can't always keep an eye on them they can do things that you have no control over.(They also can be sneaky and do things to get around parental rules, trust me on that one )So perhaps if all else fails some drastic measures may need to be taken. My ex made the misake of allowing underaged teens(18-19) drinking in our apartment, and they turned our apartment into a party haven(Well since they are going to drink better to drink at home and not drink and drive? She regretted that decision ever since and realized she had made a big mistake)

[pnggrad79]

Thanks, Nate!
I made her watch an Intervention episode last night about a heroin addict and an alcoholic. She got to see what a heroin addict is like and it made her physically ill to watch this young 23 year old girl, steal money from her parents to go buy heroin, which she was shooting up as soon as she could get it melted down. She got to see a homeless alcoholic who was digging through garbage cans to get something to sell so he could buy more vodka. She saw him sleeping under newspapers being rained on because he slept outside. She got to see how desperate an addict lives. I asked her if any part of those two scenarios looked attractive or anything like she would like to live, and she said absolutely not.

I said, "But you see how innocent it all started for the heroin addict. She smoked a joint, and from there, went to shooting up heroin. The alcoholic was given beer and other forms of alcohol when he was a teenager. Soon he was getting drunk at work and was fired." It all started somewhere. A door they didn't need to open. Alcohol and drugs are nothing to take lightly. They are insidious elements that anyone needs to walk away from and not touch.

I am just trying to protect my daughter. If I overreact, maybe it will stick in her head, and she will stay away from it. I would stand on my head if I thought it would keep her clean and away from that crap. She doesn't need it in her life, and can live perfectly well without it.

[Alecto]

I think the best you can do is to sit down and explain WHY two drinks with her cousins worries you so much. If you decide that her leaving the house is indeed too drastic (which is entirely your decision; I'm not a parent and I don't feel I have any place to say whether that's appropriate or not), that would be a good time to tell her why you felt that impulse initially. If she's on anti-anxiety meds, those are more likely to be more dangerous with alcohol than anti-depressants, but at very least it can cancel out the good effects. As for "calming her down", it's referred to as self-medication. And the truth is, with alcohol, it works. For a little bit. But then it doesn't and you're left with either trying really hard to make it work (which is pretty much what you're afraid of) or else picking up where you left off before with methods which are meant to be long term.
Hopefully she doesn't get to a point where she makes that choice.

[pnggrad79]

Like I said, she got physically ill when she saw the state these two addicts were in. I think it spoke volumes to her. She didn't see anything wrong with two drinks. I said no not by themselves, but with the medication you are taking, you are asking for trouble. You are asking for reactions you don't want.

I have seen the effects alcohol, drugs, smoking etc have had on members of my family, and while it may seem like the thing to do at the time-(i.e-it feels good...) in the long run, you end up paying a very heavy price if it becomes an addiction.

I cannot and will not allow my daughter to disrespect the rules of my house and continue drinking. If that is her choice, she needs to move out, make her own rules, make her own mistakes, and I just hope and pray I don't have to go bail her out of jail on a DUI or worse, go to the hospital and see her on life support because she was driving drunk or at least "influenced" by alcohol.

In my mind, ain't nothing good about the stuff, not worth possible addiction or death, ain't worth the money it costs, ain't worth the possibility of killing someone while driving under the influence. All the way around, it is just not worth the price one has to pay for alcohol. It causes more problems than it is worth.

[ladyinred]

Pngrad why not just tell your daughter you are concerned with her welfare and don't want to see her make mistakes that may prove injurious to her health,that you want her to avoid those mistakes, have a heart to heart , mother -daughter talk. Tell her you love her and don't want her to ruin her life and explain the problems you have encountered with addictions in your own family and why you are deeply concerned with how drinking may impact her especially on meds.Perhaps a "softer tone" would work.

[Erik]

I'm new here so if I step out of bounds on this, please let me know. That said, since I don't know all that much about your situation I'll not make a judgment, I'll only share my experience with youth and alcohol. I grew up in a home where both parents were non-drinkers; mom was a MILITANT non-drinker. All alcohol was bad in her eyes. I can understand her perspective since her grandfather drowned while drunk and a drunk driver almost killed my sister. However, her extreme stance on alcohol only served to make me wonder just what I was missing and by the time I graduated from high school I was drinking between 15-20 drinks at every party I went to. Sometimes when we make something so taboo it becomes an irresistible forbidden fruit and we can go a little overboard when we finally partake. I agree with those who have suggested that teaching responsible consumption is probably a good idea.

[BruceChris]

PNG, no matter What the divorce decree says, she is under NO obligation to enter her father's house, if doing so makes her sick. You can get a legal ruling on this if you have to, and if you work it right, he will bear most of the cost.

I would like to know just what her relationship with alcohol is, if any, when breathing the smell of dog pee is not involved, which I will assume is most of the time. Try to get an understanding of what is happening with her MOST of the time. Find out just what else is involved with the anxiety attacks, maybe there is something that can be reduced on that front.

I assume that she has reasons to want to visit her father; can she stand up for herself and tell her father that as long as being in that house makes her sick, she will NOT come over, until it is throughly cleaned?

If she has an alcohol problem when there is nothing much stressful going on, THEN you have a problem.

I hope that I haven't contributed to the problem, Bruce Chris

[ladyinred]

I think we have to look at things from mom's perspective here, she is concerned because she doesn't want her daughter to be engaged in potentially damaging behavior that could affect her life in a negative way(and possibly in a destructive way that leads to serious problems down the line). So I do think Pngrad does need some support and understanding here as well, she is dealing with a difficult situation. She obviously is concerned and wants what's best for her daughter which is why she's asking us for some input.