Hello my name is Lauren

[lalainatlanta]

Hello -

My name is Lauren.

I'm a female who doesn't struggle with homosexuality.

But I wanted to come in here and apologize on behalf of the church.

I recently read a sad statistic that less than 1% of people in the church who believe homosexuality is wrong actually pray for them.

That is not showing love.

I believe that God loves gay people and that so long as they accept Christ as their savior, they are going to heaven.

But I'm unable to see that homosexuality is right in the eyes of God.

The church has gravely mishandled this issue.

I read what Mel White had to say about several things and his statement that bible is not a book about sexuality had me deeply troubled.

I think the bible is most definitely a book about sexuality.

I understand that everyone here has wants and needs just like everyone else. I don't know why or when the church decided to de-humanize people who are gay.

I think we get fooled into thinking that happiness = right.

In my limited time here on earth I've come to see that happiness is the most pathetic end goal a person can have. I know this, because it used to be my own. I've struggled with my own weaknesses and temptations. I sank myself into $22,000.00 in debt before age 21. All because I 'shopped my way' to happiness. I'm not saying this is a direct comparison to what gays experience.

I just am asking for insight. I'm not looking to argue.

I've never met a gay person who hasn't had a heart wrenching tale of what lead them there...

[TigerXero]

I've never met a gay person who hasn't had a heart wrenching tale of what lead them there...

Wait... are you talking about the theory that every GLBT person has had a traumatic experience that has caused them to be gay?

As far as I'm aware, I've never met a gay person who HAS had a traumatic experience (and I'm only have two close friends who are gay that I would know it about, so I can only speak for three gay people when I say that).

Here's my 'traumatic' upbringing: I was raised conservative, Southern Baptist. I had a family which had communication problems but we weren't abusive on any level, and I grew up playing soccer for years with the local team, I went through the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, earned my Eagle Scout rank, graduated second in my class in high school, and now go to one of the top ranked schools in the nation. The only experience I've had that has come near to being traumatic is either bullying issues in middle school or my parents having to discipline me a lot before realizing I had ADHD in elementary school, but that's nothing more stressful than what most children go through, so I'm offended if you were implying that in order to be gay I have to have been sexually molested, involved in drugs, etc. If anything, I've had an amazing upbringing and there was nothing to indicate that I had some trigger that turned me gay. I would ask you to at least realize that we are not this way because of some incident that has happened in the past (a theory pushed HEAVILY by the religious right, hence why my wording was so strong).

Other than that, welcome to the forums. I do question, though, discussing something to make a point means you have to make an 'argument', so forgive me if you view this as an argument rather than a conversation. And I'm not angry at you if it comes across that way, I'm just angry at the accusation made by that statement.

[lalainatlanta]

u-dog: I appreciate your candor. It's the honest opinions from the community that I'm trying to obtain so that I can better understand. We may not agree on everything, but I at least want to hear the voice of the community from the actual community. I feel I owe myself that in depth understanding: an unfiltered, honest response to my questions I have for everyone here.

The church does have a long way to come. I'd just be careful to latch on to and lump the struggles of all individuals that have faced wrongful persecution from the church. I don't really focus on what women suffered through in the past - I really like to take where we stand today and face our current issues. Not that I believe the past should be ignored... I just believe one life presents it's own unique challenges and we should be appreciative for whatever progress has been made. I think our energy is better spent on the present. I hope I said this without being offensive. I just don't think one community can ever fully understand the personal pain of the other.

To be honest, I'm a little weary that the gay community is claiming to undergo what the blacks went through. I think that the gay community has faced a RIDICULOUS amount of injustices - no doubt about that! But after hearing stories from various black people I know about their own fears, hurts, and paranoia about the world they came from and which they live in - I think it's just dangerous to draw such a parallel. It seems like wasted energy to me once again... because it's not the same. And I don't think it allows the communities to fairly and fully claim their own unique struggle.

That aside - I respectfully keep searching for understanding. Any additional insight you can give me is much appreciated. Thank you or being patient with me. I can't promise I'll come to the same conclusion - but I can promise that I'll exhaustively research till I feel I'm as aware as possible so I can make an informed decision.



-----



TigerXero: Please don't take my words for anything more than what they were. It is the stories I've come to know that have broken my heart. I'm not going to repeat those stories... but it's the very reason for me seeking understanding. I personally don't know of anyone who hasn't had such a story. That's a fact. But that's why I'm here. To gain insight. I didn't make an accusation so I find your anger unmerited - but I apologize if my words offended you. I whole heartedly believe your heart would break if you knew their stories as well.

Once again - I'm here for insight. Any candor you can offer will also be appreciated.

[scott snedeker]

I believe that God loves gay people and that so long as they accept Christ as their savior, they are going to heaven.

But I'm unable to see that homosexuality is right in the eyes of God.

The church has gravely mishandled this issue.

I read what Mel White had to say about several things and his statement that bible is not a book about sexuality had me deeply troubled.

I think the bible is most definitely a book about sexuality.

I understand that everyone here has wants and needs just like everyone else. I don't know why or when the church decided to de-humanize people who are gay.

I think we get fooled into thinking that happiness = right.

In my limited time here on earth I've come to see that happiness is the most pathetic end goal a person can have. I know this, because it used to be my own. I've struggled with my own weaknesses and temptations. I sank myself into $22,000.00 in debt before age 21. All because I 'shopped my way' to happiness. I'm not saying this is a direct comparison to what gays experience.


Then why say it because you appear to use this to trivialize gay folks' entitlement to happiness with it! And by trivializing you appear to be dehumnaizing gay people with it just like the church you just finished criticizing.


I just am asking for insight. I'm not looking to argue.

I've never met a gay person who hasn't had a heart wrenching tale of what lead them there...


Welcome, and thank you for coming to the forum to explore understanding.

We all come from backgrounds where our basic fundamental paradigms of same sex attraction is taught to be wrong. Changing that paradigm is the only way to stop murdering and psychologically maiming gay teens and adults.

Now that statement may sound radicial and extreme now, but in twenty years' time I believe it will be axiomatic to most people.

Imagine for a moment that at thirteen years of age that you overheard your mother talking on the telephone. Then you hear her say "I don't think my daughter should expect anything from me or anyone else. The only reason that she exists at all was because I became pregnant after I was brutally raped!" Then she sees you and to assuage her guilt she says' "Oh but sweetheart if you accept Jesus into your heart and never have sex He will forgive you!"

This is an example of how a gay person feels when someone says that "being gay is an abomination but if you live counter to your basic nature and live a passionless life, Jesus will forgive you and love you if you accept Him into your heart."

Both are psychological child abuse.

I did not choose to be gay. In fact I "chose" to be straight and tried to "develop" attraction to women, which of course did not work.

So I accepted the message.

I was created with attraction to men only but I did not have the justification to live true to my nature and experience the joy of making love to the person to whom I am attracted. On the other hand, my brother who is straight does have this privilege sanctified by family, church and the government.

So, I get it.

I am a second class human.

God created me to suffer rejection, humiliation, passionlessness, lovelessness, psychological abuse, unequal treatment by law, my job, etc.

God seems to have created me a second class human so that I can endure suffering in order to get into heaven.


and now the wake up call.......


Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no less entitlement than my brother to all of his privileges!!!!!


Because........................

It's kind of like getting a kitten and feeding it bird seed to watch it slowly die by suffering from malnutrition because eating anything but birdseed is an abomination. And why should the kitten complain? Doesn't it see how happy the birds are with the same food? How dare it protest!

So being unable to see homosexuality as being right in the eyes of God is like being unable to see a kitten eating tuna being right in the eyes of God. This does not mean that you are an idiot if you have only had birds as pets and have never seen or heard of a kitten before. Without knowing that feeding the kitten the only "pet food" that you know of will kill it, the mistake could be easily made.


Similarly, If you did not know that telling a gay teen that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God will result in a psychological injury you would be unaware of the consequences. The consequences are devastating, often resulting in suicide, depression, drug addiction. These consequences are lifelong.

I hope that I offered a perspective that reaches your understanding. I hope that you can accept that I don't want you to feel guilty that the belief paradigm you state is damaging and killing gay teens.

It is because the truth is that by coming on this forum that you are part of a movement toward a kinder world. A world where gay teens are nurtured and loved unconditionally. A world where entitlement to the joy of falling in love is a given....... to all unconditionally. A world more like the teachings of Christ who loved all unconditionally and less like the Pharises who placed conditions on God's love and salvation.

Hold yourself in your consciousness and practice forgiveness for any tresspasses that may have resulted in pain. Move forward to learning to love people, especially gay people unconditionally without asking us to change or justify our capacity to love each other.

[Gennee]

Hi Lauren and welcome to Soulforce. I read your post and find you to be a thoughtful and intelligent person. Yes, the church has many amends to make in the treatment of LGBT persons.

Each person's experince is different. I have met both happy and sad LGBT people. I am a transgender individual and am quite happy about who I am. I have been a Christian over thirty years before I discovered that I am transgender. I prayed :pray: about this and my faith has been reconciled with it. God is interested in our hearts. If there are things that need changing in our lives, He is the one that will change them.

Lauren, I'm so happy that you're here. I would love to read more posts from you because I sense that you are someone who wants to understand what we're about.

Gennee

:love::pray::love: :wave:

[keltic63]

I've never met a gay person who hasn't had a heart wrenching tale of what lead them there...

Hello Lauren, welcome to Soulforce.

I'm keltic, one of the moderators, and a gay man who also happens to be a music teacher and a dad. It's nice to meet you.

Now that we've been introduced, it's possible for you to say that you've met a gay person who hasn't had a heartwrenching tale of what lead them "there" (if "there" means homosexual orientation.) As a matter of fact, nothing lead me to my orientation, it just is, and always was. My heartwrenching tale comes from my attempts to cover up, deny, fix, sublimate my orientation.

I come from a very religious and loving family. My parents, unlike so many others, are still married to each other. They've been together for nearly 50 years. They never abused me sexually or emotionally or physically. No one in my extended family has ever been accused of sexual abuse. My father was active in my upbringing. He would come home from work and we would often go out in the yard to play ball, or freeze tag. He loved having Halloween parties and dressing up, and encouraged us to join in the fun. My mother isn't domineering.

What other "stereotypical" reason can I blast out of the water?

My point is that there is no environmental, psychological, emotional reason that I am gay. Nothing ever happened to me that would have "turned" me that way.

My heartwrenching tale comes from realizing that our society teaches that what I am is intrinsically wrong. My attempt to deny my orientation caused me to make some bad choices, like dating, marrying a woman, and having children with her. All 4 of those people have been hurt because of my denial of being gay. There's no need to go over that story here, but eventually I divorced to live my life as a gay man. My children are a great blessing to me, in spite of my mistake. As time heals our relationship, my ex-wife and I are becoming more friendly toward each other.

Thanks for your words of introduction and apology. Much of your assumption that homosexuality is wrong comes from a cultural bias. stick around and discuss it (politely) and I'm sure you'll learn a lot from the great people in these forums.

keltic

[Zerbie]

Welcome, and thank you for coming to the forum to explore understanding.

We all come from backgrounds where our basic fundamental paradigms of same sex attraction is taught to be wrong. Changing that paradigm is the only way to stop murdering and psychologically maiming gay teens and adults.

Now that statement may sound radicial and extreme now, but in twenty years' time I believe it will be axiomatic to most people.

Imagine for a moment that at thirteen years of age that you overheard your mother talking on the telephone. Then you hear her say "I don't think my daughter should expect anything from me or anyone else. The only reason that she exists at all was because I became pregnant after I was brutally raped!" Then she sees you and to assuage her guilt she says' "Oh but sweetheart if you accept Jesus into your heart and never have sex He will forgive you!"

This is an example of how a gay person feels when someone says that "being gay is an abomination but if you live counter to your basic nature and live a passionless life, Jesus will forgive you and love you if you accept Him into your heart."

Both are psychological child abuse.

I did not choose to be gay. In fact I "chose" to be straight and tried to "develop" attraction to women, which of course did not work.

So I accepted the message.

I was created with attraction to men only but I did not have the justification to live true to my nature and experience the joy of making love to the person to whom I am attracted. On the other hand, my brother who is straight does have this privilege sanctified by family, church and the government.

So, I get it.

I am a second class human.

God created me to suffer rejection, humiliation, passionlessness, lovelessness, psychological abuse, unequal treatment by law, my job, etc.

God seems to have created me a second class human so that I can endure suffering in order to get into heaven.


and now the wake up call.......


Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no less entitlement than my brother to all of his privileges!!!!!

.

Scotty, this is brilliant! And beautiful. And I feel it. :'(:love:

Can I, like, print this is out and quote it?? :p

Welcome Lauren. You've received some kind responses from several of our regulars. Tread gently. They are people fully deserving of respect from ANYone. They have earned it.

[scott snedeker]

Scotty, this is brilliant! And beautiful. And I feel it. :'(:love:

Can I, like, print this is out and quote it?? :p

Welcome Lauren. You've received some kind responses from several of our regulars. Tread gently. They are people fully deserving of respect from ANYone. They have earned it.

I would be flattered if you used it! please do! As you probably have guessed, I have a wee bit of vanity about my writing and eat it up when people quote me! some day I would love to meet in 3-D and go out to party!:love::cool: