Looking for a Bible

[Dragonfly]

I am a lesbian and a Christian. I have just come to realize in the last few days that my being born gay should not keep me from having a relationship with God. I was taught that being gay was against God and I chose not to have a relationship with God. I could not understand how it was that I could be born gay (God's doing, not mine) and still be, according to every Christian that I knew, going to hell with gasoline britches on.
I am very thirsty, very curious about God and what He has to say to me. I would like to buy a Bible so that I can read and learn what that is, but I don't know what translation (??) of the Bible to get. I don't want to get a Bible that has the word homosexual in it; I am pretty sure that word was not in existence when the Bible was written. I want to be able to read what the Bible says with as little lost in translation as possible. If anyone has any advice on this, on what Bible I should purchase, please let me know.

Thank you--Dragonfly

[WindHorseKelly]

Ditto for me Dragonfly, I'd like to know of such a Bible.

Although I have learned to read scripture with understanding that much that is written is historically & culturally biased; And, has the influence of the ruling class who had a great deal of vested interest in people believing in a certain way.

Also when the scripture was interpreted into various languages many people were illiterate and that made it easy for the powerful clergy & politicians to gain contol of people's actions. What could be more threatening than the eternal negative condition of your mortal soul?

That's another subject though.

Namaste, Donna

[BruceChris]

Occurred under the reign of King James the First, whom many historians believe to have been a homosexual. There are no translations of the Bible that I know of that give an unambiguous treatment of homosexuality, and the subject is currently being hotly debated in most of the mainline Protestant denominations.

As I understand it, the dispute over the best translation of the Bible verses that refer to homosexuality is mostly of fairly modern origin. I suspect that the answers that the two of you are looking for will not be found in any standard Bible translation, but can only be found in the writings of modern theologians, or other scholars, like Dr. Nyland

No modern church that I know of, with the possible exception of the UU and UCC, who seem to affirm any sexuality that is non-exploitive and honest in nature, has really addressed the question of transsexualism. I suspect that almost any pronouncements that are made by the hierarchy of mainline denominations are not all that well thought through, and do not bear the imprimatur of the highest authorities of the denomination. The question seems to have been avoided far more than it has been addressed.

The wholeness of gay people as beloved children of God, and the acceptability of women for ordination are the two main issues that seem to be driving the Episcopal Church toward schism within itself, and seem to be leading toward a possible split between the Episcopal (American) Church and the world wide Anglican Communion.

I admit that I am a very amateur student of Christianity and the Bible; I hope that some more learned SoulForcers can jump in here, and fill in some of the gaps that I have left.

Your Humble Servant, Bruce Chris

[BruceChris]

Lavender magazine, LavenderMagazine.com, of Minneapolis, has a short piece that says:

"Christian bookstores in Australia and the United States are refusing to sell "Study New Testament for Gay, Lesbian, Bi and Transgender", by Dr. Ann Nyland, because it challenges traditional Biblical interpretations of homosexuality. A U.S. distributer has banned the publication, and Australia's largest Christian retailer said it was unlikely to carry the book".

Dr. Ann Nyland, is a classical greek lexicographer.

So make it down to your local Independent, GLBT, or Feminist bookstore and place your order.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[Dragonfly]

Thank you Donna and Bruce Chris--
I will look for the book Bruce Chris; and I will be studying now, the way the I need to study, to find what God is saying to me. It saddens me that my local Christian Book store would not make this available to us. I am not sure how it is that a person can find fault in the teachings of Jesus Christ. I too am very "young" in my knowledge of the Bible, but I want to be able to read it and hear God's voice as He speaks to me. You would think that the "Christians" of the world would want a book that would bring us closer to that. I am sure that it is through Truth that we will find an answer, but without Grace I am not too sure that we could ever have the strength to even look for it. These bookstores that won't carry this book are a perfect example of what God doesn't want.
So, again, thank you for your replies. I love that I have found a place to ask questions and not feel like I have to dance around to get an answer.
Thank you very, very, much---Nancy

[Jennifer5]

Welcome dragonfly :wave:

[BruceChris]

When I read your 2 postings, I am getting an impression of a woman who has some vulnerabilities, and some innocence. This troubles me, because I do not believe that anyone should allow themselves to use any one book, any one other person, or any church or religion as their single source of knowledge, or truth. You must find out for yourself your own truths, what works for you, and what does not. You have to learn how to be your own person, yourself.

We are all created in God's image, but there are more than 6 Billion of us, and each one of us is different. I believe that God made each of us to be different, and unique. You are right, just as God created you, but it is only in growing up that we learn more and more just what kind of person we are.

I believe that God made you to be a Christian, a lesbian, and many other things that are the true you. It helps if you have people of your own age, sex, and orientation to grow up with, to try things out on, or bounce things off of.

I would like to find out your approximate age, and whether you live in or near a large city. In many cities, you can find colleges, with women's studies departments where you could go to find some one to talk with. In many places, there are PFLAG groups. Parents, Friends and Family of Lesbians and Gays. They can be great people to talk to, but they often meet only once a month. There are many resources out there, to learn many things from.

Now I've given you a whole lot of advice here, and all that I can say, if I want to be honest, is don't take ANY of it, until you've thought about it, and tried it on for size, and see if it really fits YOU.

So much for now, hope to hear back from you, Bruce Chris

[nmwolfboy]

i really like the Oxford NRSV Study Bible. Loads of informative commentary, background for context and alternative translations of word, phrases, etc. If you go with that version, spring for one that includes the Apocrypha, imo.

If you like one that reads more beautifully, check out the New Jerusalem Bible. The Psalms are especially lovely in that version.

You may want to check out different translations & versions online, too. That way you won't end up spending money only to find you've chosen a version you don't care for.

Pax,
scott

[BruceChris]

FOR "STUDY NEW TESTAMENT FOR GAY, LESBIAN, BI AND TRANSSEXUAL", By Dr. Ann Nyland


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Study_New_Testament_for_gay%2C_lesbian%2C_bi%2C_an d_transgender

A mainline media article, in The Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/christian-stores-boycott-gay-bible-guide/2007/11/25/1195975870483.html

Amazon Page:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/103-5755121-2859846?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Study+New+Testament+for+lesbians%2C+Gays% 2C+bi%2C+and+transgender&x=20&y=17

Let's get some, and start a whole new forum! -- BC

[Gregory_de_Bois]

I agree with udog, the best translation that I have found so far is the NRSV. It deals with the clobber passages really well, and if it is a study bible then it has loads of really informative commentary, historical background. I find that it is the best because it had translators from every denomination. I think that really helped to make it a great translation.

There is the Inclusive New Testament and Old Testament. You can order it online here (http://astore.amazon.com/truthsetsfree-20) (and the other bible that Bruce was talking about is there too.)

[Dragonfly]

Thank you for all of your time. I am 37 years old--I don't know how much "innocence" I have left in me--I think that I am certainly my own person, but I appreciate your concern. This was an avenue, this website, that I thought would be a good place to start in my searching for what is right for me. I have a story, just as everyone does; I have a history that I am working very hard to find a place for in my heart and in my mind--to find freedom from what haunts me--
My simple request here was just that, just some thoughts from people who may have come to this place, this search of God's word, and have found a Bible that would be the least condemning to them as gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgender. I understand that this will go far beyond the translation of a book, and I am willing and eager to find such resources; especially when the resource will inevitably be from within myself. I am working everyday, every second of every day, to find some place to put all of my "stuff"--
Again, I appreciate very much you reading and responding to me. I have not had a chance to look at the links that you sent, but I will.

[Steven E. Webster]

i really like the Oxford NRSV Study Bible. Loads of informative commentary, background for context and alternative translations of word, phrases, etc. If you go with that version, spring for one that includes the Apocrypha, imo.

If you like one that reads more beautifully, check out the New Jerusalem Bible. The Psalms are especially lovely in that version.

You may want to check out different translations & versions online, too. That way you won't end up spending money only to find you've chosen a version you don't care for.

Pax,
scott

The Oxford NRSV Study Bible comes in three editions. The Third Edition is the best in my opinion. It includes more work by feminist scholars. Another really good Study Bible is the New Interpreters' Study Bible (also the NRSV translation). The commentary on the Gospel of Mark in the New Interpreters' Study Bible is by a lesbian bible scholar named Mary Ann Tolbert (who is Southern Baptist).

Steven Webster

[Steven E. Webster]

The Oxford NRSV Study Bible comes in three editions. The Third Edition is the best in my opinion. It includes more work by feminist scholars. Another really good Study Bible is the New Interpreters' Study Bible (also the NRSV translation). The commentary on the Gospel of Mark in the New Interpreters' Study Bible is by a lesbian bible scholar named Mary Ann Tolbert (who is Southern Baptist).

Steven Webster

Wow! Think of it! Lesbian Bible Scholars being published in a main-stream Study Bible! There is a God!!!! And She is Great!!!!

Steven Webster

[Dragonfly]

Thank you to everyone for posting your replies. I have a place to start now in my search for my new Bible.

[BruceChris]

Dr. Ann Nyland, an Australian scholar whose research field is Greek Biblical lexicography based on the papyri and inscriptions, holds a Ph.D. in New Testament lexicography, graduate degree (double major) in Classical Greek language, Honors Degree in the Ionic dialect of Greek. She served as faculty in ancient Greek language and Ancient History in the Department of Classics and Ancient History at the University of New England in Australia. Nyland is published (academic journals) in the field of Greek and Hittite lexicography.

Nyland's father, a Classicist, taught her Latin before English, which created a love of ancient languages. When Nyland was six years old, she accepted the Lord as her Savior. As a teenager, Nyland received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and joined a Spirit-filled church. Her mother eventually became a pastor of a small church in an area marked by poverty. Following in her mother's footsteps, Nyland also served as a pastor but not without controversy.
...
However, Nyland found much opposition to accurate word meaning in Bible translation because many people preferred the traditional, but inaccurate, language. (For a review of her translation, The Source, click here.)

Donna, this reinforces your observations, earlier:

Eventually, she discovered very powerful people actually controlled the distribution, even the content of certain Bible versions which claim that women must assume a naturally subordinate position to men. If their viewpoint was not included, then they would actively lobby publishers and others to either stop or withdraw the version that was contrary to their belief. Their tactics served to manipulate bookstores, for example, to refuse to carry any version that did not use masculine language to translate Greek words which referred to both genders. Hence, Nyland felt compelled to write More Than Meets the Eye to expose their chicanery. Likewise, GWTW feels to spread her research by putting up this chapter exposing the "Control of Bible Translation Today."

See also www.godswordtowomen.org

http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=ytff1-&p=www.godswordtowomen.org&ei=UTF-8

P&L, BC

[BruceChris]

"The Gay and Lesbian Bible", who'se full name seems to be "The Gay and Lesbian Study Bible"

It does not seem to be available thru Amazon, but about 200 other similar titles do come up, when you ask for this title.

See Also http://thegaybible.com This site has a lot of Bible history in it that I find very informing

There is also a book called "The Source: New Testament" Which appears to be a careful translation by Dr. Ann Nyland, but without any specific gay emphasis. It IS available thru Amazon, but for some reason it was the second listing, when I asked for that title.


P&L, BC

[Vanessa White]

I don't know much about Bible versions, so I will stay out of that commentary. Suffice it to say that you will get lots of good info around here no matter where your journey is leading you presently. Peace to you, :love:

[Dragonfly]

I do not go to church right now, but, there is a church here in Orlando, it is a Unitarian church, where a lot of our gay friends go. I appreciate your response...I am writing all of this information down and can hopefully find some time to really look into some of these resources. I will make time to do that...

I have gone from (at the beginning of this "thread") feeling a little bit lost to feeling, at this point, such a sense of relief ( ??? ) that I really do have a relationship with God, that has not ever really changed; I was maybe not listening so well to Him, but He has been here all along. I asked for some guidance and some help and was lead here to this site--now I have no reason not to find some answers for myself---I have had a million excuses, and no real reason anyway, but all of the suggestions and response to my request makes that much more clear...sometimes what once was our reason for doing something or not doing something becomes our excuse later on in life.

So, thank you for your response. I am very glad to have found this page.

Thanks again---Nancy

[Erik]

Dragonfly....I am an agnostic Unitarian Universalist. While I can't speak for ALL UU members or congregations, I can tell you that from what I've seen Unitarian Universalists tend to be very open and accepting of GLBT members. I have felt extraordinarily comfortable there. I'd suggest you check the website at http://www.uua.org/ . There is a lot of information about the history of the UUA and it's relationship with the GLBT community. There have been many resolutions in support of GLBT rights passed at national assemblies dating back to about 1969-70.

Keshet...Thanks for the link to the info about the Hebrew Bible and homosexuality. As I write this I'm taking a break from my take home final in Hebrew Studies. My prof. is also a Rabbi and has really challenged some of the preconceptions and misconceptions that many have regarding what Judaism is all about.

[pnggrad79]

dragonfly,
First of all, you have to understand the word homosexuality did not exist before the late 1800's and so to make an updated version of the Bible, all the translators inserted that word not knowing the damage they would cause thousands of people in the future who worry about being gay and Christian. You can be gay and Christian and I don't believe you have to water down your faith to do it either.
Please listen to the sermons from Glory Tabernacle in Long Beach, California. They have free podcasts. The pastor is a lesbian and she is absolutely one of the finest preachers I have ever had the pleasure of hearing. Find it on the web and listen to it. But don't ever compromise your faith or your hunger because you are gay. Don't water it down. The bible is what it is but it has to be considered and read from the historical perspective in which it was written. Just like the language in Oliver Twist and some of Shakespeare's writings can't be taken the same way as it was once written. Things change and so does the meaning of some things and you have to look at the context. To lift something out of the bible and use it to condemn is nothing short of spiritual terrorism.

[lakewinnie]

I attend a United Church of Christ church. I recently saw the movie....For the Bible tells me So.... It was a ground breaking movie for my partner and I to see. I highly recommend it. This movie gives a more in depth view of what the bible says about us beautiful people. As far as a bible I read many different translations but they all say the same thing. The movie will explain things better. Don't give up....Jesus loves us all. Maybe you can locate a UCC church that is Open and affirming. They give you great support.