View Full Version : shootings in colorado church
12-10-2007, 12:21 PM
I don't understand people anymore,i really don't. It's good that they had security to shoot him to prevent more deaths, but it's bad too. If they had armed security, how did the guy get in in the first place? I can't even imagine a church so big it has more members than the town I grew up in and has security guards. It is sad. I don't understand what makes people go around killing other people. I really don't. Especially at church which is supposed to be magically off-limits to violence. Like in Highlander where it was against the rules to fight on holy ground. REcently near me, a guy went into a church and killed 2 women as they were making meals on wheels food. they let him in and fed him and he killed them. I don't understand people anymore.
12-10-2007, 12:28 PM
I'm glad you posted about this. I've been thinking about since I heard the news. This was at New Life, where Ted Haggard was formerly the pastor. I keep expecting this to be somehow tied to that scandal. I hope it isn't. and if they do discover some connection, well, the religious right will trot it out as "those evil gay people cause this......"
12-10-2007, 02:00 PM
I seriously think the Radical Right is starting to lose its collective marbles. :cool:
12-10-2007, 05:41 PM
Guys....isn't this kind of "blame the victims"? What does gettting shot have to do with the church losing its marbles when the shooter was not a member of that church? Wasn't that the shooter losing his marbles?
12-10-2007, 06:37 PM
From BoxTurtleBulletin coverage (http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/10/1139).
Most important, same shooter:
Forensic evidence from the shooting matches that found at Arvada's Youth with a Mission, scene of an earlier rampage that killed two others.
He's dead, so no further man hunt to worry about.
It appears that his dad is famous:
[Matthew] Murray, the son of a neurologist who is a prominent researcher on multiple sclerosis, did not appear to have a criminal history but "hated Christians," the official said. The official did not know Murray's religion, if any.
I don't know what to make of the above, but the latter gives me pause:
The shootings in Colorado Springs happened at about 1:10 p.m. Sunday with 7,000 worshipers still on the New Life campus, after morning services.
It's one thing to witness death, but I think there's an added dimention to the terror when you witness others experiencing the same terror that you are.
12-11-2007, 05:50 PM
When will people learn that violence is NEVER the answer, whether we're talking about hatred of certain races, ethnicities, religions or sexual identities/orientations? When will we learn?
I grieve for the lives lost, as well as for those in the Omaha, Neb. mall shooting. My niece was a student at YWAM in Arvada, and I'm sure she's really struggling with this.
12-11-2007, 06:49 PM
As far as I'm concerned the radical right has aleady lost it's marbles.
12-12-2007, 12:36 AM
12-12-2007, 03:06 AM
Seems more violence has come from shootings
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071212/ap_on_re_us/bus_stop_shooting Perhaps we need stricter gun laws?
12-13-2007, 02:46 AM
Let's take a look at gun laws :http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/gun.control/
This will shock you.http://www.soros.org/initiatives/justice/articles_publications/publications/gun_report_20000401/GunReport.pdf
Excerpted from this report:•
A 12-year-old in North Carolina needs parental
permission to play Little League Baseball,
but not to possess a rifle or shotgun. In
Texas and five other states, there is no
minimum legal age requirement for gun
• In 48 states citizens can legally buy an assault
weapon. In 43 states the purchase requires no
license or registration.
• In 46 states there is no limit on the
number of guns a person can buy at any one
time. Only four states impose a limit of one
handgun per month as a precaution against
illegal gun trafficking.
Specific Regulatory Measures
Licensing and registration
• 35 states have neither licensing nor
registration for any type of gun. Only one
state, Massachusetts, has both licensing
and registration for all guns. Consequently,
Massachusetts is the only state where police
have the ability to check and reconsider
whether changing circumstances affect someone’s
suitability to own guns.
• 32 states require no background checks
when a handgun is purchased from a
private seller, whether over the back
fence or at a gun show. Some states that
do require background checks have no mechanism
for ensuring that they occur.
• 44 states require no background checks
when a rifle or shotgun is bought from
a private seller.
• 23 states require only the basic federal
background checks when a handgun is
purchased from a dealer. (The other
27 states require checks of state police records
• 31 states have no waiting period for handgun
purchases. 12 states require more than three
• 43 states have no waiting period for
purchase of rifles or shotguns.
• Only four states have a one-gun-a-month
law: California, Maryland, South Carolina and
Virginia. In the other 46 states there is no
legal obstacle to prevent illegal gun traffickers
from buying multiple handguns.
“Saturday night specials” or “Junk guns”
• Only seven states have banned cheap,
dangerous, “Saturday night specials”, also
known as “junk guns”.
• 43 states require no license or registration
for assault weapons such as AK-47s. The police
have no practical way of knowing how many of
these guns are owned, or whether someone is
• Only two states, California and Connecticut,
prohibit private sales of assault weapons. (New
production of assault weapons was banned by
federal law in 1994, but in 48 states pre-1994
weapons continue to circulate.) Hawaii and
Maryland prohibit private sales of assault pistols
• Only four states have laws requiring guns
to be kept locked or unloaded: California,
Connecticut, Hawaii and Massachusetts.
• 18 states have a Child Access Prevention
(CAP) law, which punishes parents if their
gun is used by a child to cause death or injury. (yeah after the fact,when the crime happens)
Industry immunity from litigation
• 13 states have laws protecting the gun
industry from being sued by local governments
for negligent design or distribution
of its products.
Preemption of local ordinances
• 40 states prohibit or restrict municipalities
from enacting local gun laws. Only 10 states
allow cities and counties to impose tighter gun
MEANING ANY LOON CAN GET A GUN. Or perhaps even a terrorist in certain states.
12-13-2007, 02:51 AM
Soooooo I guess some pissed off teen can have easy access to a weapon so he can blow away his classmates or maybe his parents, or students on a college campus, or people in church or even a shopping mall..
What right thinking person would allow children to have easy access to guns.
I guess gun profits take precedence over common sense. (Now, now Billy quit aimin' that gun at the neighbors they ain't target practice ye know.")
12-13-2007, 06:51 AM
don't understand what makes people go around killing other people. I really don't. Especially at church which is supposed to be magically off-limits to violence. Like in Highlander where it was against the rules to fight on holy ground. REcently near me, a guy went into a church and killed 2 women as they were making meals on wheels food. they let him in and fed him and he killed them. I don't understand people anymore.
Part of the problem is we live in a society that glorifies violence, we see it on tv, the news, in kids cartoons, video games and so on.What kind of values does that teach a child?
Sadly we will probably see more of these shootings.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.