Church shooter victim of ex-gay therapy?

[antonyh]

Proceed At Your Own Risk is reporting that Matthew Murray may have been bisexual and endured time in ex-gay therapy.


FOX, always vigilant when it comes to the gay scourge, is now reporting that Matthew Murray, the deeply troubled young man who shot and killed himself and members of Ted Haggard's New Life Church and the church's Youth With A Mission program was gay.

In fact, he may be a victim of the church's ex-gay reparative therapy program. Having failed to find heterosexuality through Jesus it appears that Murray was booted out of the youth program and out of the church. Crushed by this rejection and overwhelmed by rage and despair thanks to the curse of homosexuality, Murray went on a killing spree that ended with himself.

I would hope "and pray" that America's reaction to this would be a growing realization that homophobia--and Christian homophobia in particular--is a deep and pervasive poison in our society that does much harm to our culture, our spiritual and political health and the human spirit.
http://rjr10036.typepad.com/proceed_at_your_own_risk/2007/12/hell-hath-no-fu.html

[antonyh]

Here is the Fox story underlying the blog entry above:

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5202557&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

And the Westword:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2007/12/matthew_murrays_nightmare_of_c.php
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2007/12/matthew_murrays_threatening_po.php
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2007/12/matthew_murray_ted_haggard_and.php

[antonyh]

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/12/murray_had_confrontation_at_new_life_church_in_200 .php#more
http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/12/matthew_j_murray_nghtmrchld26in_his_own_words.php
http://p223.ezboard.com/nghtmrchld26s-posts-on-12907/fexpentecostalforumsfrm60

[ladyinred]

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/12/matthew_j_murray_nghtmrchld26in_his_own_words.php

These writings tell of a young man who seemed to be in deep despair,obviously severely depressed. He was apparently terrorized by his own religious upbringing. I'd like to know what your reactions to these writings might be. I just felt really saddened reading these writings, he seemed very tortured, that deeply affected me.

[antonyh]

These writings tell of a young man who seemed to be in deep despair,obviously severely depressed. He was apparently terrorized by his own religious upbringing. I'd like to know what your reactions to these writings might be. I just felt really saddened reading these writings, he seemed very tortured, that deeply affected me.

For those of us who have journeyed through Fundamentalism, well we are going to identify with many of the experiences that Matthew had. It is clear that Matthew struggled with mental illness. But we can't ignore the context that he grew up in, one of superficiality, religious intolerance and bigotry.

This is a damning indictment of Fundamentalism.

[ladyinred]

Well I think if I grew up in a charasmatic church as a child with all the satan and devil talk ,hellfire for this and that, I'm not sure I would've come out of that mentally balanced either. Good grief. How would his mind have sorted through it, it was basically the only reality he'd known. To me the church seemed to dominate everything even family life and decisions.Too controlling and stifling.

[antonyh]

Well I think if I grew up in a charasmatic church as a child with all the satan and devil talk , I'm not sure I would've come out of that mentally balanced either. Good grief.

I thought that these comments by the blogger that captured his posts were insightful:


The following postings provide some poignant and troubling insight into Matthew and his thoughts. If one believes what Matthew has written, he asserts that he is bisexual...and has participated in "every sort of sexual perversion"...a statement which likely reflects some of the very religious judgments he sought to escape.

The last entry in this posting is perhaps the most significant...and perhaps one of the most troubling. I'll offer a note of caution, in that Matthew uses some harsh and crass language in recounting an alleged conversation he had with his mother.

What is clear is his growing resentments and his determination to effect a change. I contend his rejection of his religious ideology unfortunately didn't include the ability to separate his newly chosen activities (drinking, sex, etc) from the construct of sin which had been ingrained in his psyche. While choosing to rebel, it is obvious he still loathes his actions though sees them as equal or superior to the hypocrisy and abuse he believes he experienced while attempting to live his faith.

Sadly, in the end, I suspect he couldn't find a comfortable and comforting choice...hence his decision to end his life. It's unfortunate that he apparently concluded he had no reasonable alternatives to the path he ultimately chose. I find it difficult to fathom being in that state of mind...but then that's the primary reason for this exercise.

Let's hope that our society will decide to be more proactive in the future.

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2007/12/murray_had_confrontation_at_new_life_church_in_200 .php#more

[ladyinred]

I agree , very revealing.

[antiochian]

This is just so incredibly sad. And I'm sure many Christians will just use this as another proof that, "See, those gays are evil!"

How incredibly sad that he couldn't find the support and help that might have prevented such a tragic outcome.

[antonyh]

I hope Soulforce formally responds to this tragedy. It may be the most difficult thing in the world to write, but I think a response is needed.

I am also very concerned about how the Religious Right is going to respond to this.

[ladyinred]

antiochian, I think people at his church may have told him to get help but not really the kind of help he needed from a certified mental health official. It seems he mentioned that he was suicidal in his writings but said he would have gotten into serious trouble with his parents , so he just told him he was depressed.

He also talked about demon possession (Apparently the church had attributed problems such as his as not walking upright with the lord or satanic influence, I personally don't believe any of his problems were caused by a literal demon or demons, the demons he had were psychological and emotional.

He was very tormented by his upbringing and on top of that had very poor self esteem, and it seems alot of rage and self loathing( I think quite a few of us have been down that path before of self loathing), I don't think his upbringing helped because of all the guilt dumped on him. When depression becomes that severe, it is not hard to see why people may become suicidal or despondent or even turn anger outward and direct it toward others,people have been known to be driven insane by guilt if they carry around enough of it. He grew up in a shaming religion. Robert Burney a pyschotherapist writes alot about his upbringing in shaming religion that dumped fear on him and told him he was going to hell for even wanting to kiss a girl. He talks about his own process and recovery. But before, he turned into an alcoholic and got help through a ten step recovery program, and has said recovery is on an ongoing basis. He had a hard time reconciling that he was loved by God as well.

This kid did not have a ten step program or recovery program (or ongoing help outiside of his church)to turn to or support for depression, if he had ,the outcome of things may have been totally different. I don't think from what I read help outside of his own religion or church was encouraged. And attributing satanic influence to problem such as severe depression doesn't help the person either, it only increases the depth of despair.Being able to talk to people outside the influence of his church who may have been more objective (like a licensed counselor outide the church) might have helped also.

If you read about Andrea Yates she was very much influenced by the cultic practices of her church(if you could call it that).. They didn't help her either.

I remember hearing Pat Robertson attributing depression to sin and I seethed at that. Depression is not uncommon at all(especially in our society), and severe depression is something that needs to be addressed especially if suicidal thoughts and feelings occur."Cheer up and think happy thoughts",as he was advised is not treatment.Mental health issues can be serious enough to warrant help and treatment and should be on an ongoing basis to help the person to stablize. Support programs for depression and other "issues" may help the person know and see he is not alone and have some people he can talk to who can help him work out and sort through things.Isolation makes it very hard for a person to do so
I can say there is nothing wrong with seeing a christian counselor as long as they don't dump more shame and guilt on the patient. As for conversion therapy , which I don't agree with after reading of the tragic outcomes,I've also written where I felt like people coming out of these therapies are often embarking on their own healing journey. If something has the potential to kill you or do more harm than good, it ain't helpin' and I wouldn't call it helping someone. The destructive impact on one's own mental and emotional health has to be looked at or evaluated here. As far as the fundies, if one of them comes across this forum and reads this discussion. Please take note ,you are NOT mental health professionals.And to help instill such a negative pessimistic ,fearful,hopeless outlook on life and the gospel of Christ on a young impressionable person , is of your own doing and making not God's.Also take note of 2 Timothy.1:7 " For God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power and of love and of sound minds."

I'd also like to add that yes, the victims need to be considered here, I am not endorsing or condoning the shootings they were truly a tragic situation for the people who were victims, our hearts should go out ot them. But we need to reflect on what had led to this tragic event so a better understanding of the situation may help to prevent more shootings in the future. If anything this may help more parents to be alert and get help for their teens if they recognize symptoms of severe depression and suicidal tendacies before they become homicidal.

[ladyinred]

This is just so incredibly sad. And I'm sure many Christians will just use this as another proof that, "See, those gays are evil!"

How incredibly sad that he couldn't find the support and help that might have prevented such a tragic outcome.
Again this has little to do with the gay community, we didn't put the rifle in his hand and tell him to shoot up a church. It does have alot with his religious upbringing and his anger toward his church and their teachings, if anything he was a victim of hardcore fundamentalism.Sorry but they can't blame this one on the gay community or a "gay demon." ( Who put those ideas in his head in the first place of demons and terror?) That may offend the fundies(as if they don't go out of their way to offend people) but he wrote extensively about it as we have seen.

Toxic religiosity we've seen doesn't help the spiritual growth or development of a person or his relationship with God and outlook on the world nor in his relationship with others. I would actually say a person becomes stunted spiritually with such a negative view of life and other people.If things were as bad as they(the fundies) purport it to be and man has no redeeming qualities and is just evil , we'd all be dead. (and "watch it", salvation is an "iffy" thing , "the Lord" might change his mind and send you to hell if you "misbehave." No more grace or forgiveness for you...as if we could score" brownie points" with God and earn grace through the works of the flesh anyway)

Of course salvation is for the "special people" and not for others..Why bother to go on with life or have faith in the first place then?Why bother to get up in the morning and look foward to a new day, mankind is too" evil "to be bothered with and all we can hope for is one day the Lord in" his vengence" will apply due penalty and punnish mankind and send those who " don't believe to hell." Pretty vicious stuff I'd say. With that outlook , I'd think most people would be pretty much despondent too.

Perhaps what we need to learn from the "intolerant" is to shun their ways at all costs . We see where that road leads. Here is a quote I found "Do not be intimidated by their threats. Speak out against these assassins of mind,(and Spirit, my addition, I thought I would throw it in) .... especially when their ignorance is at the root of others' suffering. ..."

The religious right it seems is so focused on the perceived weaknesses in others that they are blind-sided by their own.. Rather than speak of mercy as Jesus did they teach the opposite:http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PERSONAL/k/170/The-Beatitudes-Part-5-Blessed-Are-Merciful.htm..... Excerpted:"The Pharisees, harsh in their self-righteous judgments of others, showed little mercy. Jesus saying of them in Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the other undone." This difference makes apparent how far apart God and men are on the value we should place upon specific qualities of character.


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