What are your views on Ex-gays?

[AJLove]

Tell what you think of ex0gays do you think they really changed?

[ladyinred]

With all the stories I hear, it is highly doubtful, they may succeed in repressing their desires, but if people sincerely did change and God in fact wanted them to change don't you think that God would give them the means to change? From what I've read many who got out of exgay therapy claimed they changed when in effect they said they were deceiving themselves and others, they lied in other words, especially to themselves. Many people are against such therapies because they believe they do more psychological harm then good.They (ex-gay therapies)also from what I've read keep very poor records of their so-called 'sucess rates". I also hear that others who felt they had failed the programs can become suicidal and there have been suicides as a result. I wouldn't exactly call that sound psychology if people end their lives in despair over failing to change their orientation , would you?
Here's something you might want to read,it's off the HRC site,It's an article on exgay ministries, I think you might find it very insightful.
http://www.hrc.org/issues/religion/7107.htm The article is called" Finally free", Please if you have time read it. My motto , if you want to find out more about something ,do some research on it.Believe it or not I actually joined a ex-exgay group to get a perspective on what these people had gone through. Most were still struggling with their sense of idenity and were very disillusioned by exgay therapies and some had been in these types of programs for YEARS. I also found support groups for people getting out of exgay therapies all over the web.I'd posted the groups awhile back, but that was about a year ago I think.Here is something that raises the credibility issue..One of the stranger gay-curing techniques was set forth by Richard Cohen, former board
president of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays (PFOX), a support group based in Virginia. Cohen
penned a book on the ex-gay movement, Coming Out Straight, and found himself, for a brief time,
the darling of the religious right. In 2000, he was a featured speaker at NARTH’s annual
convention, where he convinced the ultra-conservative crowd to remove their shoes and rub each
other’s backs, shouting “Touch, yes! Sex, no!” An integral part of Cohen’s therapy involves a
client being touched in an affirming, non-sexual way by someone of the same sex, along with
banging a tennis racket on a pillow and loudly denouncing whichever parent didn’t pay him or her
enough attention.
Cohen was kicked out of the American Counseling Association and unceremoniously dumped by
both NARTH and PFOX, but not before he’d taken his gay-healing train wreck on the Paula Zahn
Now and Jimmy Kimmel shows, Showtime’s Bullshit, and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
Critics of reparative therapy say Cohen’s rise to prominence underscores the willingness of some
in the religious right to embrace anyone — no matter how wacky — who is willing to pursue an
agenda that discredits homosexuals.

[AJLove]

What about people who say they changed through God?

[Zerbie]

I believe that if someone has chosen to deny their true orientation because for them that choice was psychologically necessary in order to just get through the days, that is their right. As adults, we have freedom to choose relationships or not choose them, whether others think we are making a mistake or not. The greater sadness comes in when a member of the opposite sex is unknowingly brought along for the ride. That is one of many reasons why society must accept and welcome LGBT persons lovingly and drop this exclusionary and cruel behavior for its own good.

Do I think efforts to change or hide oneself should be encouraged? Definitely not! We should encourage people to love themselves exactly as they are, and to live honestly, authentically, with kindness and compassion for all, starting with themselves. But no one can accept a non-heterosexual orientation unless they are good and ready to. If they do not want to, we cannot make them do so, nor should we try.

On the other hand: I am firmly and unequivocally opposed to ex-gay ministries/ex-gay therapies. A gay person in denial is perfectly capable of exploring the opposite-sex dating scene without being registered to a "program." No one has any business shoving their negative opinion of someone else's innermost being and most private experience down that person's throat and using society's ingrained anti-homosexual prejudice to heavy-handedly persuade, coax, goad, guilt, or shame people into trying out someone's "program" to re-write their innermost heart. We must never, never toy with someone else in this way! Such 'therapies' can in fact be violative, violating and shaming the private sanctum of another person's core being. I could not become more passionately opposed to such 'therapies' if I tried to.

Sexuality is a dynamic part of our being. It is not made to fit artificial categories, which is another item at play here. Gay/straight is not as neat a dividing line as we like to think it is. For many of us, these labels are sufficiently descriptive, but not for all of us, and not all the time. Sexuality can be fluid, and at times, one can experience one's sexual orientation as shifting. This does not mean that if I experience a shift from more gay-oriented to more straight-oriented that I have become a 'better' person than I was before and/or that I have been 'cured' of something, OR that anyone else is ever going to experience a similar 'change.' This does not mean you should "try" to do likewise and try to cause your sexuality to change. Categories are artificial. Life is more complex than that.

[Zerbie]

Below the stars I have copied in it's entirety a post I made on an old thread nearly 2 years ago (March 2006). If you want to look at the entire conversation, the thread was called "Sexual orientations that shift."
I left my post unedited below because I think I did a better job of making my point the first time. So I quote myself:
********************************************
I love the gay community. Passionately. I identify with it, emotionally. But it is not perfect, nor is it "unified." You bring up something I usually dare not discuss around other gay activist types, as it can be an emotionally triggering issue for many people.

I am not discussing neutrality now (that's another discussion, maybe later ) This is about formerly gay-identified people being "allowed" to explore the possibility of opposite-sex relationships.

Sexual orientation (gasp) does sometimes shift or change with time. I know for a fact that it has happened at least once (probably thousands of times). Saying so amounts to treading on the proverbially thin ice for a few reasons, none of which can be taken lightly. A great many people experience themselves as having a sexual/romantic orientation towards one sex or the other which remains fixed throughout their lifetime. They never experience a change or shift. So the people who DO experience genuine changes of that sort pose a kind of political "threat" to the 100-percenters, insofar as they are USED (willingly OR not) to persuade, suggest, and pressure others to attempt to change. (Ex-gay ministries/therapies)

MOST important is the matter of effort where feelings are concerned, especially feelings so innate and so powerful as the sexual arousal and the emotional awe one finds with falling in love/infatuation. If expression of your sexuality is going to change, *it will do so on its own*. And that is the point everyone misses. The existence of people who have once experienced a gay orientation and now do not, does NOT suggest that anyone else who is gay "should" try to likewise change! Effort will do nothing of any good for anyone. Effort is an exercise of the mind trying to seize control over the body's physiological responses, the heart's tendency to love, and the expression of the soul itself in the heart. It separates us from the real self, and in that condition, there is no knowing up from down, let alone the vastness of love.

That is why ex-gay ministries and therapies do a great disservice. Of COURSE people should be free to love whomever (adult and consenting) they wish. If you have always been attracted to one sex but wish to date someone of the other, there is no one stopping you! Ask someone out! LIVE your life - rather than sit around plotting the external characteristics of who you "should" love - know your soul and love who you DO love.

There is no outside expert on YOUR heart. You are the best expert on earth in that matter. No matter how many PhD's So n So has, YOU are the expert on your own heart, and So n So doesn't know what's in it as well as you do. So YOU do the living. Have the feelings you have. Know what ways of acting on them are consistent with your values, and act accordingly in the world. There is no need to hire an "expert." You are an adult, you are in charge of what you do in your personal relationships, and no one outside is going to give you any help that is not already available to you on the inside, whether by your own grace, or by the grace of the Lord.

[ladyinred]

Here is another article:http://www.davisdentistry.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=2 American psychological and psychiatric associations oppose ex -gay therapy.In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence shows that reparative therapy does not work and that it can do more harm than good. In 1998, the American Psychiatric Association stated it was opposed to reparative therapy, stating "psychiatric literature strongly demonstrates that treatment attempts to change sexual orientation are ineffective. However, the potential risks are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive [suicidal] behavior..." Don't you think there are reasons why they are concerned and came to these conclusions.Look above,scientific evidence shows that reparative therapy does not work

[ladyinred]

Zerbie's one smart cookie by the way.;)

[Alecto]

As individuals, I try to give people a chance to prove themselves as individuals. I think most of the programs they've gone through have given a slighted view about what I know about gay folks (and what I know about my own personal sexuality). I know that mine can't change, but I try really, REALLY hard not to generalize my own experience onto other people.

The science says that MOST folks won't change (though a very few might). THe way I look at it is that, for any of my friends considering it, it's not worth the heightened risk of depression, anxiety, suicide, etc. If it were a pill with the same success rate and the same risks, it wouldn't pass the FDA, y'know? But if someone's already come through it, and they're doing alright, and they really and truly are happy, who am I to tell them "no you're not!"? If they make statements that are factually incorrect, oh believe me they'll be corrected, but beyond that I think I can handle live and let live (especially assuming that they can too).

[carolb]

Okay, I'm going to jump right in here. I read all the old posts, and as a straight (soon-to-be-ex) wife of a gay man, I know that he couldn't change. Although for almost 30 years he lived with me as a heterosexual male, it led to emotional depression, heartache, sadness, and near suicide. Recently he and I talked about the 3rd anniversary of when he came out to me. He said, "I just can't go back to that. It was a dark place. I'd have died..."

We shared a great life, but what I didn't know was that this wonderful guy that I loved so much (and still do) was masking his true sexual orientation. We have many wonderful memories, 4 grown kids, and we still love each other. If it were possible, I'd never walk from what we had. BUT! I know that my husband needs to be free to be himself - to not have to hide every day of his life from those in the church who would vilify him.

I have talked to another friend of ours, a guy who is still married to and living with a straight woman, even though he has had multiple gay affairs and is HIV positive, he insists he is not gay anymore. He "can't understand" why my husband would move out and leave me. All I know is that my husband and I are doing the best we can - and we live in truth. Whether or not this friend is gay or, as he says now, is straight, that yet be determined. (What I'm saying is that his history is that he has gone back and forth for years, so who's to know if his "straightness" will stick.)

[Zerbie]

Carol,

:love:
Your love for your husband is evident. I wish every spouse cherished their partner as you obviously do yours.
:love::love:

[carolb]

I get more understanding and acceptance in the glbt community than I have received from my friends. I suppose I'd have not understood either, unless I had to deal with it myself, so I try not to be critical of them. I get encouraged and supported from those who have been there, and I look forward to better days for us all.

:pray: Thank God for the few who do listen and voice love and support - we all need more of that. You folks are great!

[Erik]

Hi Carolb,

You may already be aware of it, but if you're not I'd like to recommend the book The Other Side of the Closet: the coming out crisis for straight spouses and families by Amity Pierce Buxton, Ph. D. Dr. Buxton also founded the Straight Spouse Network (http://www.straightspouse.org/index.shtml) which is an organization devoted to helping families such as yours (and mine).

[snuka12000]

Ex-gays are very conflicted. I understand and can relate to their struggle. They want to be accepted in their church and in "mainstream" society and to do that they feel that they have to deny a part of who they really are. They'll be rejected if they "come out" and stand proud in being gay. It's a very difficult, sometimes fatal struggle.

If they took some kind of truth potion or took a lie-detector test, I believe that the truth would come out that they're really gay and they really want to be with people of the same-sex.

[carolb]

Hi Carolb,

You may already be aware of it, but if you're not I'd like to recommend the book The Other Side of the Closet: the coming out crisis for straight spouses and families by Amity Pierce Buxton, Ph. D. Dr. Buxton also founded the Straight Spouse Network (http://www.straightspouse.org/index.shtml) which is an organization devoted to helping families such as yours (and mine).

Yes, and thanks. I have read that book, among others. I tried going to Straight Spouse Support groups in two different states. Both were disastrous - and neither one was much support. I think I could do a stand-up presentation of one of the meetings as I'd informed myself so much more than the facilitator of the meeting. I had hoped for more but it didn't happen.

Another time I had several e-mail communications with a "leader" who was soon to start a group. When I spoke with her by phone, she was not seeing things from any direction similar to mine, and she wasn't someone I wanted
to meet. (mostly hateful and derogatory toward all gay people). That made me not want to pursue that group either.

So since I've tried in two states, those avenues of support have caved for me. I've discovered an accepting church (UCC) in Florida and sometimes go to the MCC in Indianapolis, but I have abandoned much of a social life - and I'm a social person! Here and there I have found some support (i.e.: Sailaway and wife) which is GREAT!

This post sounds depressing, and I didn't mean to sound that way. There are signs of encouragement in new places that weren't available, say, 20 years ago. I read a lot of blogs and these forums - and it helps. I can't say I'm not lonely, but I have hope that better things are ahead.

[psychboi85]

I’m extremely skeptical of “Ex-Gays”. I am even more skeptical about “Ex-Gay Therapy” or “Reparative Therapy”. If we humor for a moment that homosexuality is deviant and in need of changing, and we look at the overall prognosis of the different types of sexual behavior that’s considered paraphilic, it is simply not favorable. I have to wonder how this group of therapists managed to find some way to cure a sexual deviancy when the mental health community has tried for decades to do the same. They need to reveal their secret to see if it can be applied to other disorders such as pedophilia. The truth is, as studies have shown, they haven’t found a cure. Sex is one of the strongest human drives, second only to hunger. If there really is such as thing as “Ex-Gays”, to me, they’re suffering something similar anorexia. What about people saying they changed through God? To me, that question is similar to people who say that “satanic strongholds” were the cause of their homosexuality. I think often times the devil is given more credit than deserved. Many times people inappropriately attribute power to the supernatural. To me, it’s a way of externalizing control because they can’t or won’t cope with dealing with it themselves for whatever reason. I suppose God could take away someone’s sexuality if it were causing the serious turmoil (similarly to how God could take away cancer or HIV). However, I find it doubtful that God would make such a divine intervention as frequently as these “Ex-Gay” groups claim.

[tdogg]

Tell what you think of ex0gays do you think they really changed?

So, what are your views on this topic AJ?