Good Afternoon

[JCrawf]

Hi my name is James and I attend Azusa Pacific University. The Soulforce Tour is arriving at school here today and there are some things about it that I would like to know.
I am a straight Christian male and I just want to understand the issue from another perspective. I apologize for all of the pain that the church has caused and I know that this isn't a very easy thing to talk about. I think that the church needs to embrace all homosexuals with the love that Jesus told us we should have for all people.
With that said, I do believe, as it says in the Bible, that homosexuality is wrong. The Bible is pretty clear about the issue in my eyes and to be honest, I do not understand how someone can claim to follow Jesus Christ and at the same time knowingly go against what is said in the Bible.
I am sorry if anything that I have said offends anyone, but I really do want to know more about the issue from the perspective of a homosexual. God loves you the same no matter what your sexual orientation is.

James

[Jamie McDaniel]

Hello James,

I'm sure you'll get other responses, but here are some resources to start out with.

Video Interview with Lewis Smedes (http://www.soulforce.org/article/lewis-smedes-video)

What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality (http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian)

And here are two good books:

http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0971929602.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg
The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0971929602)

http://rcm-images.amazon.com/images/P/0060774614.01._SL110_SCTZZZZZZZ_.jpg
What God Has Joined Together? A Christian Case for Gay Marriage (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060774614)

...I do not understand how someone can claim to follow Jesus Christ and at the same time knowingly go against what is said in the Bible.

I completely agree, except with the tables turned. I do not understand how followers of Jesus can actively work to oppress thy neighbor rather than treating us as they would like to be treated. Would heterosexuals like to have their most significant human relationship go unrecognized, denounced, or made illegal?

[JCrawf]

I see what you are saying about being persecuted by Christians is a similar contradiction, but i am telling you that it is wrong. The mistake that I think many Christians make is that they go after the person in stead of the sin. All homosexuals should be loved by Christians just like drug addicts, murderers, drunk, etc. God is the only one who has the authority to judge, but that doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes.
I read some of the links that you sent me, but it still sounds to me like you are just ignoring a couple verses and hope that they were just mistakes. There are only a few references to homosexuality, but that doesn't make those verses irrelevant. And every reference to homosexuality condemns it, so it is not a mistake.
I agree that many of the verses from the old testament seem out of date. There is a progression of laws that can be seen in the old testament and into the new testament, but what it says about homosexuality stays the same. People often misinterpret the Bible, but when the Bible says that something is an abomination it is hard to interpret that any other way.

James

[Jennifer5]

I see what you are saying about being persecuted by Christians is a similar contradiction, but i am telling you that it is wrong. The mistake that I think many Christians make is that they go after the person in stead of the sin. All homosexuals should be loved by Christians just like drug addicts, murderers, drunk, etc. God is the only one who has the authority to judge, but that doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes.
I read some of the links that you sent me, but it still sounds to me like you are just ignoring a couple verses and hope that they were just mistakes. There are only a few references to homosexuality, but that doesn't make those verses irrelevant. And every reference to homosexuality condemns it, so it is not a mistake.
I agree that many of the verses from the old testament seem out of date. There is a progression of laws that can be seen in the old testament and into the new testament, but what it says about homosexuality stays the same. People often misinterpret the Bible, but when the Bible says that something is an abomination it is hard to interpret that any other way.

James
If you're willing, I think it would be easier to talk if we broke this down....
first of all what do you mean "All homosexuals should be loved by Christians just like drug addicts, murderers, drunk, etc. ".... who would we fall under this group?

next it would help if you would quote these bible verses.... because I have to ask what happened to "Love thy neighbor as thy self", and the whole thing about UNconditional love...?

[JCrawf]

What I mean is that the Bible says homosexuality is sin, but that does not mean that the sin of being homosexual is worse than any other sin. That is what I mean when I say that homosexuals should be treated with love by the church just like all other sinners. I am a sinner and God still loves me, and he shows you the same love as well. This is the unconditional love and it applies to everyone.

James

[Emproph]

James,

If God is Love, that is the sharing of God. If love is a sin then God is arbitrary and not of Love. If so, salvation is based on fear, the opposite of safety. Safety being the meaning of salvation.

If you believe God is Love and is just, then Love of another human was not meant by God to be categorized as a sin that harms others.

If you read “What the Bible does and doesn’t say about homosexuality,” the link in Jamie’s post, you should realize that many people, not just gay and not just in regard to homosexuality, understand that there is too much room for error in the Bible as it is known today. It was orated, written, copied, constructed, translated and now interpreted by so many humans at every step, all of whom were under the influence of original sin. Again, this is not just about homosexuality. The question is do you believe the Bible was inspired by the inerrant word of God or do you believe the Bible as we have it today is inerrant.

Do you believe we are delusional when we say we were born this way, or do you believe we are lying when we say so? It is an important distinction. If either are the case, you have a legitimate case. If they are not the case, then the issue lies with your understanding of God and the potential for his inerrant word to have been corrupted by human hands and minds, intentionally or by mistake.

Imagine if you were born the same person as a girl, with the same attraction to women as you have now. Not necessarily to believe that this is possible, but at least to understand the intensity of certainty people like me have when we say we were born this way. Even if it’s delusion, as is so easy to think, this is the perspective you must begin with to understand the conviction of knowing that people like me have when we say this is who we.

As I understand, your understanding of homosexuality being a sin is based on the Bible. The question is about what your understanding of God is. Your understanding of God determines your understanding of the Bible. If God is Love then God is only Love, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

To consider the physical expression of my Love for another to be sinful homosexual behavior, is to condemn me as a person, this is who I am. To use the Bible to do so shows you do not understand that I view myself this way. Beyond that, you must determine If you consider my view of myself to be delusional.

It is my understanding and for that matter, personal knowledge, that the power of infinite Love is the only message that is ever meant to be received from God, who is Love. I don’t confine infinite Love to the creation of humanity and the physical universe and thus do not confine infinite truth to a finite book within that creation.

Pray on it, ask to see. Ask and you shall receive.

The truth is here for those who seek to find it. :rainbow:

[Daniel]

I read some of the links that you sent me, but it still sounds to me like you are just ignoring a couple verses and hope that they were just mistakes.

Oh contraire mon amie.

Please consider that it is not gay christians who ignore the surrounding verses in Leviticus.

There are plenty of abominations to keep the ardent fundamentalist busy. The abominations: adultery, wearing mixed fabrics, eating of shellfish, mestruating women, eating of pork, failing to keep the sabbath and talking back to one's parents are all worthy of stoning. These are conveniently ingnored by the majority of the faithful. Islamists, by contrast, seem to take their faith much more seriously.

Who's cherry picking now?

[Mia14]

I am a lesbian woman. I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with you. There are other here far better familiar with the issues to explain.

I wanted to thank you so very much for joining these forums and voicing your thoughts. I know it took a lot of courage and I'm glad you're here.

Welcome. Some of us might disagree, but we're all among friends.