Stupid book is driving me crazy

[Unmasked]

Okay, so those of you that know me know that I'm attending a Christian school in Lansing. Obviously there are some things that need to be changed, I think my school could use a visit from the Ride, but that's not what this is about. It's about a textbook in my developmental psychology class called Christian Child-Rearing and Personality Development. It's both sexist and homophobic. The first edition was published in 1977, and then a second edition was put out in 1995. I realize that over 12 years have passed since then, but people are still using this outdated text, so I think I'm justified in taking issue with it.

In a section called 59 ways to ruin a child, there is a sub-section called How to Develop a Homosexual. I want to destroy the book and yell at my professor, but let me share some of the contents with you.

How to Develop an Alcoholic or Drug Addict
[These are also linked with other psychological problems as well]

1. Give the child everything he or she wants.

2. When the child does wrong, nag but never spank (or only spank when the child shows signs of independence).

3. Do not allow your husband, wife, or child's teacher to punish the child.

4. Encourage the child to be overly dependent on the parent, so drugs or alcohol will replace you when he or she gets older.

5. Make all the decisions for the child; solve all the child's problems so he or she will always run to you when the going gets tough.

6. Always bail the child out of trouble; never let him or her suffer the consequences of misbehavior.

7. Criticize the child's mother or father openly.

8. Dominate your husband or wife; it helps if at least one of you is an alcoholic.

9. Take a lot of prescription drugs, so taking illegal drugs will be easier for your child.

How to Develop a Homosexual

[The above steps 1 through 9 are often found in family backgrounds of homosexuals as well]

10) Protect your son very carefully; never let him play football or baseball with other boys, because he might get hurt, and don't ever let him become a newspaper boy or patrol boy, because he might catch pneumonia.

11) Don't let boys spend much time with their fathers or other adult males. For girls, don't let them spend time with their mothers. (In addition, youngsters are more likely to become homosexuals when their first sexual experiences are with those of the same sex, either as children or in adolescence.)

12) Teach your son to sew, cook, and knit, and be sure he dislikes traditional male roles. Encourage your daughter to play football and other rough and tumble activities.

13) Be sure your son plays consistently with the neighborhood girls, or sisters and their friends. Never let your daughter play with other girls, but only with brothers and their friends.

14) Give your son a feminine name and tell him what a cute girl he would have been; you might even dress him up in his big sister's clothes when he is little. Give your daughter a masculine name and never encourage her to wear a dress.

So there you have it, the five things that our parents did to screw us all up, not considering the 9 other things that they probably did as well.

But you know... I played baseball and studied martial arts as a kid. Wrestled in high school. My given name is Robert, and my parents never dressed me in girl's clothing. I played with kids of both genders, but my closest friends were generally female and by my own choice. My mother is terrible at cooking, I picked those up from my father and uncle. Learning to sew is part of standard home economics curriculum, and a full marking period of it was required for all seventh grade students when I was in middle school.

So, thoughts, opinions, rants, just don't throw your shoe at the screen, that could damage your computer. Let me know and I'll converse with you.

Love,
Unmasked

[Daniel]

And you're paying for this education? :rolleyes: Or your parent's are?

I think I remember you talking abour transfering? Any development in that area?

If I remember correctly, you are studying pychology, right?

My husband is currently in school for his Master's in Social Work, where a great deal of pychoanalytic theory is studied, from the father of them all, Freud, to Erikson, Jung, Piage etc. That's the stuff you should be reading- that which makes up the canon of accepted/studied theory and practice in psychology, not the -excuse me- crap that you've been offered and have posted.

If you are going to be working with clients you're going to need a great deal more of an education than you - seemingly- are getting where you are.

Now. Don't get me wrong. I went to a Christian School too. Evangel College (now they have the temerity to call it a University), where I spent 4 unblissful years hiding in the closet as well as the practice room singing and playing the piano. Oh....I guess it didn't harm me too much. I was kept safe from the big bad world (and I recognize that some folks need this). But you know what? I didn't learn a damn thing with regard to my occupation. I had to get that privately (singing - like many other things- is something you have to learn from someone who actually knows something).

If I could do it all again (which I can't of course), I would have gone to a different school, and found my teacher a lot sooner (so much of what turns out to be actually useful in life is gotten one-on-one). But I was young, went with the flow- took the easy way out. Didn't come out, actually, until much later.

Such is the power of fear.

It's really hard standing up alone against the kind of stuff you are encountering at your school- make no doubt about that. But if you don't intend to be- or want to be- a maverick- which would mean becoming the focal point for a lot of heat (challenging this book would be an uphill battle- you would probably end up fighting with the person presenting it, not the information), I would get the hell out of there.

Still have that girlfriend in Maine? You're on the bi-side, correct? At one time you thought of transfering there, right?

What's up there?

Peace to you.

[andrewlittle]

Greta Lakes Christian College is scheduled to be going through accreditation review by the HLC, one of the six regional accreditation organizations that are federally recognized. There are a number of factors that enter into the review process. The review must be ongoing, or yet to start, because the college does not appear in the list that has been approved thus far this year.

That said the HLC has requirements (which can be found at http://www.ncahlc.org/download/Overview07.pdf) around efficacy of teaching, resources and diversity.

Questions:
What degree program are you in - one of the Associate degrees, or the BS?

What kind of course is the one you are taking? Is it listed as a Psychology course, or a Religious Studies. I cpouldn't find the course you named in the school's catalog.

Is it a required course?

Depending on where the course falls in the curriculum and how it is designated, you may be able to make a report to the accreditation body.

[Daniel]

Depending on where the course falls in the curriculum and how it is designated, you may be able to make a report to the accreditation body.

You're good! Wish I'd thought of that.

And while we're talking about accreditation, wouldn't a 'degree' from this institution be somewhat- excuse me for being so blunt- worthless?

At least- at Evangel- my BS in Music Ed meant something. I got a teaching certificate out of it.

Robert- big question: what are you going to do with your degree, assuming, of course, that it's worth something?

(yes- my style here is confrontational! But as someone who's been there- I'm taking your interest's to heart.)

[paul]

So, thoughts, opinions, rants, just don't throw your shoe at the screen, that could damage your computer. Let me know and I'll converse with you

Un,

Sigh. In the land of the free and home of the brave, anyone can have business cards printed and a sign made claiming they are a counselor and implying that they are actually qualified. Some of these people go on to write books. There is a very real profession of counselors who look to base their efforts on science vs. opinion. Then there are the other guys who have beliefs and create ideas to facilitate those beliefs. These people start with the premiss that gay is wrong, so they must come up with something to try and substantiate that. The good news is it is unsubstantiatable, the bad news is many don't know that, they simply believe it.

[Daniel]

Un,

Sigh. In the land of the free and home of the brave, anyone can have business cards printed and a sign made claiming they are a counselor and implying that they are actually qualified.

Yep. They can. But they usually can't receive payment through the insurance system. Even ministers, who get a 'pass' as far as being considered counselors, still have to get accredited education/training to file insurance claims.

[Steven E. Webster]

My given name is Robert, . . . . .
Love,
Unmasked

I bet they called you "Robert" instead of "Bob"---that'll turn you queer every time!

Believe me, a professor wouldn't seriously present this kind of junk at most colleges and universities I know of without stirring up a ruckus of some sort from students, faculty and townspeople.

Steven Webster

[RedneckDyke]

That silly Dobson book Bringing Up Boys says much of the same thing. It says make your sons play butchly games and teach your daughters to cook and sew. My answer to this is "How do you explain lipstick lesbians and manly gay cowboys or bikers?" ;)

[Zerbie]

:eek: What the - - ?

Was the textbook chosen by the prof? If you enrolled in a different section of the course would your reading list be different? Perhaps you can switch to a prof's section where this kind of material is not presented. If not, if the entire department is invested in this kind of material, I would seriously go someplace else for the degree.

[antiochian]

The course title should be Nazism 101. Since the AMA no longer considers homosexuality a disease, why would any psychology textbook print such crap?

[andrewlittle]

Who WAS Greta Lakes that they named a college after her? The name SOUNDs familiar... :rolleyes:

Be careful what you make fun of - that was my maternal grandfather's Saturday night name. I still remember that lingering aroma of Chanel and the feel of chiffon against my ...

Excuse me, I digress.

[Daniel]

Be careful what you make fun of - that was my maternal grandfather's Saturday night name. I still remember that lingering aroma of Chanel and the feel of chiffon against my ...

Excuse me, I digress.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

:rolleyes:

:lol:

[Unmasked]

Oh, Andrew, that last about your grandfather brought tears of laughter to my eyes.

The course that I am enrolled in is called Human Learning and Development/Developmental Psychology. As such it is an ED 220 / PY 220. I am taking it as Developmental Psychology. The Psychology Professor does not actually teach this course, and the Education Professor does not have any dealings with the text that Doctor Martin has assigned to us. I was not the only person to find fault with the text. I think we may have to have words with the Doctor on this subject.

On my personal life...things are on the weird side. We broke up because she wanted to be free to date and such, which tore me up a little, but I think I'm doing alright now. There are still possibilities in that regard, which would greatly increase if I could transfer to Maine, but I don't think it's happening. I'd lose all of my state scholarships if I left Michigan, which tears me apart because I don't want to stay here. Anybody know of a scholarship for hopeless romantics?

Edit: I don't know if the HLC has come through yet this year, but I know that the ABHE (Association for Biblical Higher Education) has been through and were thrilled with what they found. Maybe they did, maybe they come in February...I'm not sure, but when I enrolled GLCC was fully accredited by both organizations. Whether it'll stay that way has yet to be seen. I may apply to Michigan State, which would be right in this area, and would allow me to be myself. I'm gonna see what I can do about everything.

Lately I've been shouldering a lot, and I've been rather suicidal. I'm on some medications for anxiety and depression, but I'm not sure if I need to change or increase the dosage. Maybe a change in environment would help as well, but I just thought I'd throw that out there and see if anybody has any advice or wisdom to offer.

[Zerbie]

I may apply to Michigan State, which would be right in this area, and would allow me to be myself. I'm gonna see what I can do about everything.

Lately I've been shouldering a lot, and I've been rather suicidal. I'm on some medications for anxiety and depression, but I'm not sure if I need to change or increase the dosage. Maybe a change in environment would help as well, but I just thought I'd throw that out there and see if anybody has any advice or wisdom to offer.

Call your doctor now. If you are being suicidal and you're already under a doctor's care with medication for depression, call right now - tell them you're having suicidal thoughts and ask for help immediately. Maybe they will adjust your meds, I have no idea since I'm not a doc. But you do NOT want to be playing with depression meds on your own, so get a doctor's advice so that you're safe. If for any reason you have trouble reaching your doc, call someone. There is a crisis number somewhere on this Soulforce website - I think it's designed for LGBT youth, called the Trevor hotline. If you are in a bad way right now, you might consider calling to talk to someone - that might help you through a bad moment.

A change in environment might help you some if the depression is being caused by your system reacting to your situation. Even so, do what your doc suggests so that you stay safe.

That all comes first.

Once the suicidal feelings are past, then you can start making future plans. It's just a guess from a total stranger but my gut reaction says, absolutely transfer to Michigan State. Fwiw.

[Unmasked]

Thanks Zerbie, I'm okay at this moment, but I have my lows.

Oh, I added the other 9 steps to screwing up your kids. It's a bunch of bullshit. There's worse in there, but it's a lot to type.

[andrewlittle]

Oh, Andrew, that last about your grandfather brought tears of laughter to my eyes.

Good, that was the intent.

Lately I've been shouldering a lot, and I've been rather suicidal. I'm on some medications for anxiety and depression, but I'm not sure if I need to change or increase the dosage. Maybe a change in environment would help as well, but I just thought I'd throw that out there and see if anybody has any advice or wisdom to offer.

Now, to get serious for a minute. Extended periods of constant stress can, as you are probably aware, reek havoc with your brain chemistry. Medications can help, but it can take some give and take with the doctor to get the right mix. As Zerbie said, see your doctor.

You could also stand some TLC and counseling. I realize you probably won't find that at school. The church below is listed as "Open and Affirming" by Glad Alliance. Try contacting the minister, perhaps, and either talking with the or see if they can recommend someone to talk with who will be equally positive about your sexuality.

Ecclesia
PO Box 4188
Lansing, MI 48826
517.351.4780

[Daniel]

On my personal life...things are on the weird side. We broke up because she wanted to be free to date and such, which tore me up a little, but I think I'm doing alright now. There are still possibilities in that regard, which would greatly increase if I could transfer to Maine, but I don't think it's happening. I'd lose all of my state scholarships if I left Michigan, which tears me apart because I don't want to stay here. Anybody know of a scholarship for hopeless romantics?

Ok. You don't want to lose your scholarships for someone who 'want's their freedom. That would be- frankly- a huge mistake on your part. To be blunt: you are young and there are lots of other people to meet in this world. Yes- it hurts like hell when the one we think is the one dumps us.

Edit: I don't know if the HLC has come through yet this year, but I know that the ABHE (Association for Biblical Higher Education) has been through and were thrilled with what they found. Maybe they did, maybe they come in February...I'm not sure, but when I enrolled GLCC was fully accredited by both organizations. Whether it'll stay that way has yet to be seen. I may apply to Michigan State, which would be right in this area, and would allow me to be myself. I'm gonna see what I can do about everything.

If I was the angel sitting on your shoulder, I would be SCREAMING into your ear: "Get yourself to Michgan State". Yep. You won't lose your funding stream, right? And you can be yourself? Please tell me: what is the down side to that?

Lately I've been shouldering a lot, and I've been rather suicidal. I'm on some medications for anxiety and depression, but I'm not sure if I need to change or increase the dosage. Maybe a change in environment would help as well, but I just thought I'd throw that out there and see if anybody has any advice or wisdom to offer.

Gonna be frank here: a few weeks back I didn't sleep for about three days (I have an illness called tinnitus) and seriously thought about ending my life (one thinks odd/horrible things when one is depressed or sleep deprived). Got myself to a doctor right away after I started having tunnel vision. Got meds. They are helping tremendously. Got my life back. Got it back because I DID SOMETHING ACTIVE FOR MYSELF.

Got that?

Zerbie girl is right. You need to stay on top of this. See your doctor to adjust your med. Please don't be a hero about this. OK? There is NOTHING to gain by that kind of stance. And PLEASE do not blow off your internal struggles as "I have my lows".

In short my friend: you need a plan. Not wishes. Not maybe's. Not an "I might". That's sitting on the fence stuff. Sure. You are in the middle of school- a semester is coming up, right?

One question: would it be correct to assume that your are pleasing your parents by going to the school you are currently at? Next question: what do you fear will happen if you go somewhere else? That you will lose your parent's love and respect?

[scott snedeker]

Oh, Andrew, that last about your grandfather brought tears of laughter to my eyes.

He's good at that! Does it to me too! :lol: :lol: :lol:


I was not the only person to find fault with the text. I think we may have to have words with the Doctor on this subject.
Maybe a change in environment would help as well, but I just thought I'd throw that out there and see if anybody has any advice or wisdom to offer.

Absolutely! The need for medication could disappear with that one change!

Call your doctor now. If you are being suicidal and you're already under a doctor's care with medication for depression, call right now - tell them you're having suicidal thoughts and ask for help immediately. Maybe they will adjust your meds, I have no idea since I'm not a doc. But you do NOT want to be playing with depression meds on your own, so get a doctor's advice so that you're safe. If for any reason you have trouble reaching your doc, call someone. There is a crisis number somewhere on this Soulforce website - I think it's designed for LGBT youth, called the Trevor hotline. If you are in a bad way right now, you might consider calling to talk to someone - that might help you through a bad moment.

A change in environment might help you some if the depression is being caused by your system reacting to your situation. Even so, do what your doc suggests so that you stay safe.

That all comes first.

Once the suicidal feelings are past, then you can start making future plans. It's just a guess from a total stranger but my gut reaction says, absolutely transfer to Michigan State. Fwiw.

Wise words from Zerbie!

Gonna be frank here: a few weeks back I didn't sleep for about three days (I have an illness called tinnitus) and seriously thought about ending my life (one thinks odd/horrible things when one is depressed or sleep deprived). Got myself to a doctor right away after I started having tunnel vision. Got meds. They are helping tremendously. Got my life back. Got it back because I DID SOMETHING ACTIVE FOR MYSELF.

Got that?

Zerbie girl is right. You need to stay on top of this. See your doctor to adjust your med. Please don't be a hero about this. OK? There is NOTHING to gain by that kind of stance. And PLEASE do not blow off your internal struggles as "I have my lows".

In short my friend: you need a plan. Not wishes. Not maybe's. Not an "I might". That's sitting on the fence stuff. Sure. You are in the middle of school- a semester is coming up, right?

One question: would it be correct to assume that your are pleasing your parents by going to the school you are currently at? Next question: what do you fear will happen if you go somewhere else? That you will lose your parent's love and respect?











Definitely! Go online and start applying to other schools now!

Click on the link below and get started!

http://admissions.msu.edu/admission/transfer.asp

[Zerbie]

Gonna be frank here: a few weeks back I didn't sleep for about three days (I have an illness called tinnitus) and seriously thought about ending my life (one thinks odd/horrible things when one is depressed or sleep deprived). Got myself to a doctor right away after I started having tunnel vision. Got meds. They are helping tremendously. Got my life back. Got it back because I DID SOMETHING ACTIVE FOR MYSELF.

:eek::eek::eek:DANIEL!!!
I had no idea you were still undergoing this torture!
:'(:'(:'(

I hope you are sleeping well these days. I will be praying that you get deep restorative rest.
:love::pray:





And PLEASE do not blow off your internal struggles as "I have my lows".

Well said - Robert, Danny's right about this. When the "lows" hit, take really good care of yourself, if that means get help from your doc, get it.

In short my friend: you need a plan. Not wishes. Not maybe's. Not an "I might". That's sitting on the fence stuff. Sure. You are in the middle of school- a semester is coming up, right?

One question: would it be correct to assume that your are pleasing your parents by going to the school you are currently at? Next question: what do you fear will happen if you go somewhere else? That you will lose your parent's love and respect?




Bravo to Daniel for asking the tough questions. I think it's really worth looking at - and facing down - those questions so that you can move to a place where you will be able to flourish, not stamp down, a large part of who you are. No matter how old we are, the parental approval issue can tend to loom - that's more true the younger and closer (in years) to home one is. But if this Great Lakes whatever it is college is sucking the life out of your bones, you need to leave. Up to you to determine whether or not it IS sucking the life out of your bones.

Pamper yourself during the lows. During the highs, make concrete plans, in small steps, for positive things that will refresh you. Then DO them. Start with the smallest, easiest thing to do. Then do it.
:pray:

[Unmasked]

I've found somebody that I feel comfortable with here. We're not sure how she holds onto her job here because she actually openly stated that she can't stand fundies. I'm surprised they don't view her as a threat for corrupting the youth and teaching them to think with their own minds and that *gasp* gay people aren't sick, immoral, depraved people who need help. Sociology effin rocks.

I will look into other schools, I still don't know how I feel about leaving. Everybody wants me to stay, and I do have good friends here, but at this moment I've got no clue how I feel about Jesus or anything. It's like, the more I learn, the less I believe. I believe in the teachings, I love the teachings, but I guess the whole story makes God seem not so good to me. Hard to explain really, especially at 4AM, but it's just a thought that I had. Maybe when I'm more straightened out I can explain my viewpoint a little better.

[Daniel]

I've found somebody that I feel comfortable with here. We're not sure how she holds onto her job here because she actually openly stated that she can't stand fundies. I'm surprised they don't view her as a threat for corrupting the youth and teaching them to think with their own minds and that *gasp* gay people aren't sick, immoral, depraved people who need help. Sociology effin rocks.

I will look into other schools, I still don't know how I feel about leaving. Everybody wants me to stay, and I do have good friends here, but at this moment I've got no clue how I feel about Jesus or anything. It's like, the more I learn, the less I believe. I believe in the teachings, I love the teachings, but I guess the whole story makes God seem not so good to me. Hard to explain really, especially at 4AM, but it's just a thought that I had. Maybe when I'm more straightened out I can explain my viewpoint a little better.


You realize, there's some humor there.

Good to hear that there is someone you can talk to. You are talking about a qualified therapist, yes?

The more you learn the less you believe? I remember feeling like that at various times during my life. Believe me. It isn't the end of the world. It's the beginning of coming into one's own. All that stuff that's been shoved into our heads by someone else can bear some looking into- or at.

Trust me here: you need to hang around more people like 'her'. There will come a day when a gay man will be able to attend some Christian school and walk down the corridor holding hands with his boyfriend. But that doesn't have to be you right now.

And you will sort your beliefs out as you take your journey in life. There's no need- or pressure- to have everything sorted out now. Living with a mind towards discovery can be an amazing thing. Living in someone else's shoebox? Sounds like the environment you've been in for a long time now. There is a gift in being gay: it gets one out of the box. And that is a truly wonderful thing. For me, it helped me sort out a lot of stuff. Was it easy? Not really. Fun? No. Liberating? You bet your ass. The more I unlearned the more I learned.

Time to break out. Find your own wings. Fly.

Takings risks- getting out of the box- that's all part of it.

Tell me something: would these 'good friends' still be good friends if you were totally out of the closet and walking down the street holding your boyfriend's hand?

Please my dear friend- don't be a doormat for those who's 'love' demands that you be something you are not.

[Unmasked]

Kendi is not a therapist. She's a normal teacher, but probably the closest thing I'll ever have to a supporter down here.

Being on the "B-side" is a bit different, because there's elements of bisexual erasure coming from both sides, and as I've thought on it more, I've been kind of tending more towards absolutely gay, not so much out of losing my attraction to women or being more attracted to men, but just getting tired of women. I've had so many bad relationships with women who don't know what they want that I'm tired of it. Everytime they say forever it seems to mean "until I find somebody better than you". I know somewhere in the back of my mind that it's not a gender specific issue, but sometimes it feels that way.

I guess I am worried about it. I mean, my roommate doesn't know that I like boys, although he does know that I support full benefits for domestic partnerships and all of that. Maybe I am afraid that being fully out would end in rejection. I do want to be somewhere where I can be out.

I've always been scared. The only person in my family that knows is my little brother. We're as close as we've ever been. He teases me about it sometimes, (mostly when I'm watching an indie film) just like he did when I was a vegetarian. My mom knows that my brother and I support equal rights, but I don't think she knows that I like boys. She insists that our support is just because it's popular. The biggest thing she was worried about was that I was going to get thrown out of school for being "too flamboyant" about my support. She was also worried that I was going to screw up "like I did in high school".

This turned into something way more than it was supposed to...I came to rant about a book, and now I'm pouring out my life before the world. All of my fears and resentments...I do that a lot...I hate it, because it makes it look like I'm reaching out for attention, and it feels like it too...

Ugh, my battery is dying. I'll end it here.

I'm really sorry if I sound stupid at all. I'm really tired right now, and...yeah, I'm gonna stop.

[Zerbie]

Kendi is not a therapist. She's a normal teacher, but probably the closest thing I'll ever have to a supporter down here.

One of the reasons many of us support your idea of transfering elsewhere, perhaps Michigan State - so that you will have more than only one supportive person in your life. If you are full of doubt, and surrounded by negativity, one supporter is not enough.

Being on the "B-side" is a bit different, because there's elements of bisexual erasure coming from both sides,

Definitely. I've experienced much of that.

and as I've thought on it more, I've been kind of tending more towards absolutely gay, not so much out of losing my attraction to women or being more attracted to men, but just getting tired of women. I've had so many bad relationships with women who don't know what they want that I'm tired of it. Everytime they say forever it seems to mean "until I find somebody better than you". I know somewhere in the back of my mind that it's not a gender specific issue, but sometimes it feels that way.

You're correct that's not a gender issue. There were times when I felt little to nothing for either men or women, but then it always shifted. I think feeling some sense of 'shift' is a common experience among bisexuals but that's just a guess based on a few of us. Anyway, don't make your feelings a source of worry. They may shift around with time. Don't look for a gender. Look for an individual with whom you connect and feel good.


I guess I am worried about it. I mean, my roommate doesn't know that I like boys, although he does know that I support full benefits for domestic partnerships and all of that. Maybe I am afraid that being fully out would end in rejection. I do want to be somewhere where I can be out.

I've always been scared. The only person in my family that knows is my little brother. We're as close as we've ever been. He teases me about it sometimes, (mostly when I'm watching an indie film) just like he did when I was a vegetarian. My mom knows that my brother and I support equal rights, but I don't think she knows that I like boys. She insists that our support is just because it's popular. The biggest thing she was worried about was that I was going to get thrown out of school for being "too flamboyant" about my support. She was also worried that I was going to screw up "like I did in high school".

These fears are understandable. Facing them is the only way anyone has ever found of making them go away. Running from them, hiding from them, makes them seem scarier because it's like "Gee, if I have to hide in this dark closet all the time, I must REALLY be in danger." Hiding from a fear teaches your mind that the fear is all-powerful.

Your mom's choice of words is really interesting. "Flamboyant" is a word frequently lofted at gay men. Do you think she is wondering about you?

Lastly, none of us know what is meant by 'screw up like (you) did in high school.'

I'm really sorry if I sound stupid at all. I'm really tired right now, and...yeah, I'm gonna stop.


Now stop that - you don't sound 'stupid.' You sound extremely stressed. Do what you must to get unstressed (in healthy, safe ways ONLY) and then when you're calmer make plans to get in a safe, positive place where you can be you.

[BruceChris]

Just wait until you see the list of things that cause biblically literal fundamentalists. :eek: :eek: :sick: :eek: :sick: :eek: :sick: :borg:

And stop and think about just what it is that's causing you to be afraid, when this happens to you. Reacting to fear without thinking is probably the biggest cause of fundies.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[tymejumper]

I bet they called you "Robert" instead of "Bob"---that'll turn you queer every time!



No no no, it's Bobby, you HAVE to add the 'y' at the end or else it won't make you gay!

Do you tink that's why I am a lesbian? I am named Rebekah, but my Mummy called my Becky!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Unmasked]

I was Bobby as a little kid. I got sick of it around junior high, but it followed me.

I had no drive when I was in high school. I got depressed really easily and didn't see the point in doing anything. I'm not used to doing things for myself. Anything that didn't get me a pat on the head and a few minutes of spotlight was never something that I wanted to do. Attention is the only thing that I've ever really craved, but I've always wanted a lot of it. I hate saying that, because that's one of the things that I've been taught to feel bad about. It's not always about me...it's never about me, always about the group, but sometimes I get frustrated with the group and their fake devotion. Yet I can't shake the feeling that this must make me a terrible person. After all, every time I've ever expressed these feelings I've been told that I'm wrong and that I need prayer...

[Daniel]

I was Bobby as a little kid. I got sick of it around junior high, but it followed me.

I had no drive when I was in high school. I got depressed really easily and didn't see the point in doing anything. I'm not used to doing things for myself. Anything that didn't get me a pat on the head and a few minutes of spotlight was never something that I wanted to do. Attention is the only thing that I've ever really craved, but I've always wanted a lot of it. I hate saying that, because that's one of the things that I've been taught to feel bad about. It's not always about me...it's never about me, always about the group, but sometimes I get frustrated with the group and their fake devotion. Yet I can't shake the feeling that this must make me a terrible person. After all, every time I've ever expressed these feelings I've been told that I'm wrong and that I need prayer...

I remember the exact moment that I started thinking of myself as Daniel and not Danny (though there are a few- and I mean a very few who I allow- because of the trust established between us- to call me the latter).

It's about coming into one's own.

Attention? Honey....you deserve it! Lots of it!

I've worked in the arts for the last 20 years or so- and can tell you all about needing and wanting attention. That's what it's all about. Sure. It can become a neurotic negative pattern for some (the old New Yorker Cartoon put it aptly with the guy at the cocktail party saying: "Enough about me....what do you think of me?"), but that's not what I'm taking about. We all need strokes, to feel that the work we are doing is important, means something, matters in the end. That we aren't just taking up parking space.

Please don't apologize for knowing what you need and want. To my way of thinking that's the first step towards getting it.

Listen to me carefully here: you are not a terrible person. You don't come off that way at all. You come off as someone who's been sidelined by the someone else's agenda.

How about thinking outside the box for a second? You could feed your need for attention by going and taking an acting class, developing a craft- say painting or writing or anything else you can imagine. The point here is that when you can become curious about something, you will become so involved in it that you will start to blossom. Funny- but to become ourselves we have to forget about ourselves (become unself-conscious). And you know when you are in the flow when time and space drop away. You're doing something you are really involved and...oops....you forget to eat lunch. That's the kind of state of mind that leads towards external success and inner fullfillment.

This is what the best performer's do. They know (for the most part) exactly what they are doing, but do it in a way that is effortless. They shine out light rather than suck it in. They radiate.

Robert- I know what you are talking about. I want- and crave- a lot of attention too- even at the age of 49- and I don't mind saying it. And I'm in the process of doing stuff (writing) that will make that happen in some measure in my career of choice.

But let's be clear here, the search for love and attention has to be reciprocal. The energy can't be going all one way. Ya gotta give what you want to have. First one learns to give attention to what one wants out of life. Then one give attention to those who can help one achieve it. Then it becomes an endless circle, for truly, we never do anything worth doing alone.