Dating Fear

[AdamofEden]

I didn't want to hijack the Please Help Me thread.

Adam,

1: To me this sounds like you are jumping past today and focussing on tomorrow. The sentence highlighted in red makes that sound like an arduous task required to endure before reaching a goal. It would be like wishing you could hurry up eating your Caesar salad, your shrimp appetizer and your filet mignon so that you would be done with them and fnally get to eat the chocolate cheescake!


2: Why not enjoy each stage of your life as it comes? It was what you were put on this planet to do! Delayed gratification can turn into a miserable empty way to live! :confused:


3: You may want to rent "The Peaceful Warrior" and then read the book. I think you are ripe for it!


4: Exploring sex with for the first time with different people is how you can discover what you like and don't like. It is a hell of a lot of fun! So much fun for me that It is the life I choose. My lovers also choose the same life for the same reasons. That's why we are polyamorous lovers. No mongamous (monoandrous) men are included in our circle because if they were, they would no longer be monoandrous.


5: I agree that would mean that you were stuck in joylessness by the fear of the consequences of leaving. A miserable plight indeed. I can't only love one person. That's who i am. I fall in love too easily. Love for one person does not cancel love for another person. And when three people are all in love with each other......It is heaven on earth! :love: :love: :love:


6: Then go out and date. Discover and enjoy. After a while you will start to get an Idea of the answer for yourself. Don't be surprised if that answer changes over the years. It should. Because you are changing and growing all the time! :D
:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:



A1: lol. I didn't realize I was viewing it that way, but now that you say it, it's true that I'm not really allowing myself to enjoy this time. The last time I really was on a date was when I was 18, and right now I'm really just hermiting.

A2: ***sigh*** one of the reasons I found this site and posted specifically on this topic is due to my trying to figure out how to allow myself to enjoy this time. I really don't have other gay men in my town to discuss this with so I've decided to jump in unreservedly here.

A3: Thank you! I will defiantly have to look into this.

A4: I think it's funny you picked up on my not having had sex with other people. I can't begin to describe how hard it is to tell people that I'm gay but that I haven't had sex with anyone (not even a bj/hj). I just know that I've never been interested in girls and am lucky enough that to have had the resources out there that allowed me to find my way so far.

A5: Where you say you fall in love to easily. That would be part of the problem. I like the idea of dating someone before getting involved with them. I'm open to the idea of multiple lovers or having more of a physical bond with a person. I do date most of my possible partners and in doing so I tend to find we don't connect and then after the first few dates sex becomes expected which is possibly the biggest turn off in the world (not that I don't understand the need with adds guilt, which adds pressure ext). Then when I don't agree to sex upon demand it falls apart after that. Usually another date is discussed on the provision of the person only continuing date me if during the next date sex is an understood mandatory close to the night. This has turned me away form sex some how...?

A6: I guess sex being expected and ultimately being a stated ultimatum to a continued relationship by the third date is why I've stopped dating. The last guy I dated didn't really like me and I didn't really have any feelings for him but some how I was supposed to care so much about a none existent connection that I would sleep with him to continue to have any relationship at all. I guess I unconsciously discuss this fear in my first post (In Please Help Me under general discussions).


I would like to date and have the loving sexual relationships you speak of and that I long for. I'm just still afraid of myself. I know I still look around in the coffee shop while on a date making sure that know one I recognize is around, and even after my being out to my immediate family for years I'm still afraid of someone asking them about seeing me with some guy. I'm still afraid to hold hands with other guys or to have someone hold me public or not. I had a lot of self homophobia before my short time in Marine training and having to deal with homophobia their and hearing drill instructors talk about their conquests around base while they talked about how they kept it a secret form their wives really made sex bitter to me. I'm just trying to gain the faith that I can not just have sex with someone but fall in love with someone who both loves me and I can trust.

I hope I'm not sounding too much like damaged goods at the ripe old age of 20.

Thanks for listening to my rant I'll look for the book you mentioned I have a feeling it will help me allot. Thank you.

[Daniel]

Adam (is it Ok to call you thus?)-

Think about it. You've expressed the desire to get to know your dates a bit better before sleeping with them. Not a bad thing actually. Some would say a great thing. But I want to point out something here: it seems to me that your are setting up a dynamic where you have to be, must be in control at all times: this can become a barrier to the person you are dating, who, if you haven't told them upfront about your self-agreement, don't know what to do or how to behave. No wonder they drift off. You are demanding something of them which they are not demanding of themselves.

I remember (many years ago) that I thought it very valiant of me not to sleep with a man (who is still a friend and a great masseur) on the first date, even though we wanted to tear each other's clothes off the minute we got back to his apartment: we ended up sleeping together, but not making love. In retrospect, it was kind of romantic. However, it was something that was mutually agreed to, not merely my agenda placed upon him. The building tenson certainly heightened the love making later on!

You know- as trite as this sounds: we learn by doing.

Some thoughts:

1) You can lighten up about the no sleeping rule not the first date if the mood strikes you- when it strikes you (play safe) and see what happens.

2) Make it very clear what your current boundaries are to the person- or person's you are dating. That said, you want to be careful about sending the message to the person you are dating must pass some kind of test, as though you are one holding the carrot.

You've expressed unease about being 'gay' in public, but I think there is something else you might want to take a look at: you parents. Your first model for 'relationship' is the one they had/have with each other. Think of the ways- both good and not so good- where you might be playing by their playbook. In the end- we all have to love in our own way- by our own rules- not someone else's.

Are their fears your fears?

You know, the joke about gay men sleeping with each other and then deciding if they like it other is- to some degree- true. And while I'm not saying you should sally forth and make hay, you might start thinking about taking your path in this area a bit more lightly.

Again: back to parents. Sturm und Drang? Roses and sunlight? What is their pattern?

It's often said that our first partners mirror- in some way- our parents. And personally speaking, now at the ripe age of 49, I can say that there is some truth to that. Love - in the big sense of the word- seems to give us the opportunity to work that stuff out, that is, if we are awake enough to know what happening. That's a good thing.

Now. If you have the thought that there must be THE ONE, well....that is another HUGE limitation on the horizon. That thought can become the rock in the road.

I've been married to the same man for many years, and while he may indeed be the one, I don't think of him that way for the simple reason that thinking like that puts to much pressure on both of us. It's the day to day stuff that matters. It's the small things that add up to something. It's the connections made and remade that matter.

Oh yes......when Love Descends from the Heavens- as it did for me when I met my guy- it knocked me on my ass, upsetting everything I though it would be. Love - as I've found - has it's own rules. And at some point we all have to learn to surrender to them. And they have nothing to do with what is commonly thought of as morality. Or thought expressed as "I should" or "I shouldn't". To me that is guilt talk. I don't want someone 'shoulding' all over me, so why should (ha!) I do it to myself?

Now bear with me. I have an interesting tale to tell.

I"m an editor of a small journal dealing with singing, so a publisher sent me a new book (Emotions in the Human Voice) to review. What's interesting here is that one chapter is devoted to "Erotic and Orgasmic Vocalization". Interesting, huh?

Well dear one. It turns out that the latest research (via FMRI) show that romantic love is different as expressed in the brain than the pure sex drive.

The results of of this study (Stony Brook 2005) based on 17 subjects showed that the intense feelings of being in love activates the brain in the right ventral tegemental area and in the right caudate nucleus and that such activation is dependent on the intensity of passion present. These same subjects' responses to facial attractiveness were found to activate the left ventral tegmentum. There brain regions are the dopamine-rich areas, and such areas have been considered with reward and motivation. This finding thus suggests that love is a motivation and therefore love is dopamine rewarded, and because love is a motivation, it also differs from pure sex drive.

All this indicates that sex and making love with or without love are distinctly different brain controlled entities. And, I dare to say we know the real thing feels better. The researches also stated that romantic love resembles euphoria in the early stages.

Why do I mention the above? Because you- and your brain- deserve the love you want, need and desire. And stopping dating will only deny you what you want, need and desire.

And try to keep in mind that love is what the other person wants as well, no matter how F**ked up their behavior is. Learning how to give it is part of the deal. Sometimes, many times, in spite of that behavior (you don't get through 16 years with the same person and not have to deal with this.)

Oh....it's a terrible metaphor, but it's like the lottery: you have to play to win. That said, your search for a loving partner need not be so indiscriminate. The best thing I can tell you? Listen to your intuition, your gut. And the interaction with a guy that scares you (in a good way) is the one you want to investigate.

Getting out of your comfort zone (which would seem to mean- at the moment- no love at all) is risky business. But it's worth it.

Date! Or let your brain starve! It's up to you. Life is what you make it.

[Zerbie]

[SIZE="5"][C


A1:it's true that I'm not really allowing myself to enjoy this time. The last time I really was on a date was when I was 18, and right now I'm really just hermiting.

I would rather be alone than with bad company. If you aren't meeting the kind of guy you WANT to be around, there is no reason to spend time with guys you don't connect with.

DO find things about your life to make the time enjoyable. If you pursue your interests (whether its sports/fitness, politics, the arts, etc.) and have a rich life full of adventures, guys will find that attractive. Importantly, guys with similar interests will be more likely to find you and notice you. But don't do it for guys - do it for you. The guys are just a pleasant side-effect.



A4: I think it's funny you picked up on my not having had sex with other people. I can't begin to describe how hard it is to tell people that I'm gay but that I haven't had sex with anyone (not even a bj/hj). I just know that I've never been interested in girls and am lucky enough that to have had the resources out there that allowed me to find my way so far.

Why would you have to tell people that?

Regardless: you are by NO means the only one or the youngest one out there who hasn't been having sex with people yet. Plenty of guys are older than you before they have their first sexual experience. And plenty are younger. The world has all kinds. You're normal.
Having sex just to do it is the WORST reason for doing so, and you are wise to avoid the pressure from guys you have not connected with.


A5: Where you say you fall in love to easily. That would be part of the problem. I like the idea of dating someone before getting involved with them. I'm open to the idea of multiple lovers or having more of a physical bond with a person. I do date most of my possible partners and in doing so I tend to find we don't connect and then after the first few dates sex becomes expected which is possibly the biggest turn off in the world (not that I don't understand the need with adds guilt, which adds pressure ext). Then when I don't agree to sex upon demand it falls apart after that. Usually another date is discussed on the provision of the person only continuing date me if during the next date sex is an understood mandatory close to the night. This has turned me away form sex some how...?

Ugh! I agree. That would be a huge turnoff. Sounds like you're running into the dating games that people play. Unspoken "rules" and such crap. Bullshit! No connection = no sex and that's it. Wait til you find someone you WANT. Don't buy into dating 'rules.' Be authentic and communicate your real feelings and needs. The guy you WANT will not be put off by that, but will be the same way in return.





I would like to date and have the loving sexual relationships you speak of and that I long for. I'm just still afraid of myself. I know I still look around in the coffee shop while on a date making sure that know one I recognize is around, and even after my being out to my immediate family for years I'm still afraid of someone asking them about seeing me with some guy. I'm still afraid to hold hands with other guys or to have someone hold me public or not. I had a lot of self homophobia

That, I think, is the larger issue. Many people find that, given time, those fears subside. But you do have to confront them by looking at them and talking yourself through things like, "If my parents' best friends see me in the coffee shop with my date, what's the worst thing that might happen?" And usually, the answer to that question really isn't so bad. ;)
Now I'm not suggesting that you throw caution to the winds if you're ever in an environment where you could be physically endangered - but the fears of someone you know seeing you out on a date, since you're out already to the people who matter most to you - well, those fears deserve to get butt-kicked down the stairs and outta the house. :smashy::smashy::smashy:


before my short time in Marine training and having to deal with homophobia their and hearing drill instructors talk about their conquests around base while they talked about how they kept it a secret form their wives really made sex bitter to me.

:sick:
Yecchhhh! That could certainly add to the sense of turn-off. To the impression that it's all games and deception and a lotta crap out there. And there is. The trick is to ride through that mess without getting it all over you. There are other guys who want real connections too, and they are having the same problems finding someone real. Finding each other is the difficult part, and part of finding each other is pure luck.



I'm just trying to gain the faith that I can not just have sex with someone but fall in love with someone who both loves me and I can trust.

I hope I'm not sounding too much like damaged goods at the ripe old age of 20.
.

You sound like you've got a lot figured out already at 20, which puts you ahead of the pack in terms of living a life you will love. *Knowing* what you want and don't want is the first step to realizing the life you want. Acting in accordance to your values is also a must.

You *can* fall in love with someone who deserves your trust and who loves you. Finding him is the difficult part, and it might be a while before you do. Concentrate on making your single life absolutely wonderful in the meantime.

Edited to add:

Danny's (fabulous) post slipped in there while I was typing. He is so right - if you do not keep meeting guys, if you deliberately stop dating, you are cutting off your chances of meeting a right partner. He's completely correct you know, I believe there a number of people out there who can be right partners for any of us. I'm not too keen on the idea of searching the world over for the one true soulmate. It's about finding someone compatible and working to maintain that relationship over the long haul. But for now, at age 20, dating ought to be fun, not a miserable chore - discovering who you are in relationship, exploring pleasure, and yes, also about having Life dash your expectations to bits in ways that increase your wisdom and your joy a thousand-fold.
If you feel no connection or desire for a guy, don't sleep with him. But if you do, hey. . . ;-)

[Daniel]

Here's a book for ya. I pulled it off my shelf and have been rereading it myself (never too old to learn or re-learn, right?)

Commitment and Healing: Gay Men and the Need for Romantic Love


http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1028219743&searchurl=an%3Disay%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dgay%2Bmen%2Ba nd%2Bthe%2Bneed%2Bfor%2Bromantic%2Blove%26x%3D90%2 6y%3D17

The link if from Abebooks.com - a great rescource for finding books which are gently used (and not full price!)

Kiddo. You haven't responded to this thread yet, which is entirely Ok, but I'm wondering if Zerbegirl and I have thrown too much at ya.

Be that as it may: please consider getting this book. I think it will help you.


Enduring love does not occur without effort. Sometimes the effort we need to is mundane compromise; sometimes it is a sacrifice of our own needs for our partner's; often, it is the verbal and the physical expression of our love and regard. These endeavors are motivated by our conviction that another person's love is indispensible to our ultimate happiness and, therfore, our relationship is the priority of our life.

Loving one's partner makes him feel valued, which enables and motivates his love is turn. It is the cycle of bestowing and accepting love that nourishes and sustains any intimate relationship over time. For love to endure, we must be able to both love and be love and to value both.

Most adults with healthy self-esteem express their self-love in committed relationships with the expectation that they will be loved and that they deserve to be loved. Those who lack self-love usually believe that committment to another is not worth the effort it entails. They are convinced that they do not deserve to be loved because they did not feel loved in childhood.

Although making the committment to love one other person is difficult for anyone, gay men generally have a harder time than heterosexual men do because their self-esteem is so frequently impaired and the requisite self-love is therefore lacking. I'm not referring to a compensatory, self-aggrandizing self-love that makes a person feel entitled or special, but to a self-love that's rooted in the love and the affirmation orf parents that makes him feel cherished, valued, and lovable.

Gay men who cannot stay in love are not as reliant on their environment for their comfort and security as those who cannot fall in love, because they have usually had a more reliable love in childhood. Although they mistrust the love of one person, they are better acquainted with love and are therefore less threatened by their need for love than are gay men who cannot fall in love. Instead of being totally self-reliant or looking to their home and physical surroundings for comfort, they have learned to rely on what they believe to be the more dependable pastiche of less intimate relationships: loving friends and acquaintances, extended family, their work relationships, and a variety of other men with whom they have sex. The often find it easy to fall in love and to love, at least for a while, but find it very difficult accept another's love for long. Being loves stirs up a need for love that they do not want and believe they do not deserve.

Ok. There's a lot to chew on here.

I can say, from personal experience, that a lot of what the author (Isay) says rings true. My husband and I, both, did not have very loving parents. We're had to, as a result, forge our relationship consciously over many years- still working on it actually. Has it been easy? No. Has it been worth it? Hell yeah!

This is why I asked you about your relationship with your parents. It matters. How that relationship was expressed to you as a child has everything to do with your relationships with other men- especially those who are intimate partners. Because how you see yourself in the equation is important. It's not just all about the other guy.

Somehow, I think you know this, and this may be the thing that's the most terrifying. You may feel as though you are the one with nothing to give. Well. Your view of yourself is subject to change, but only if you work on it. And you can. Just as I and my partner have done.

It doesn't happen in a day, or an hour, or a week. It's a long term commitment to yourself that leads to a long term commitment to another person.

It starts with making one step after another. Getting counseling can be a huge help. Having some kind of support system is essential. But more importanly, you deserve everything you dream of and more. And you can have it. Just gotta put one step in front of the other.

I believe in you because I believe in myself: if I can do it (I won't go into my family dynamic- but it cost me something to come to terms with it), you can too.

So can we all.

[Daniel]

Thank you for sharing it.

[Zerbie]

Thank you for sharing it.

Yeah, it really is. That's awesome! :tup::weee::)

[AdamofEden]

I'm sorry I have taken so long to reply here in my own tread I know that it's rude of me, especially when people go to the trouble of quoting a book and all. I have been thinking over what you all have mentions and trying to work stuff out as well as starting the winter semester at college I didn't know what to say.

I'll start with the fact that my parent's are accepting and loving towards me before and after my coming out. They married when my mom was 18. I think the only thing I have a problem with is that when they tell me I'm on the right track I have a hard time believing them because they were married by my age and didn't really experience not being in a relationship, they met when my mom was 16. I haven't had a relationship of any meaning at all yet.

The other relationship that affects me most it that of my mother’s parents, they divorced and both remarried still staying close. May grandfather would eventually die of thought cancer when I was about two. I tell that story to tell this one. No one in my family liked my step-grandmother and when my grandfather became ill she started to see someone that would become he now husband. This hurt my mom and my grandmother, and through hurting them it hurts me.

Another relationship that affected me more recently is a cousin of mine who shortly before I went into the Marine’s was kicked out of the Army because he tested HIV+ leading to his being kicked out for homosexual conduct. This would lead me to doubt some of what I was told by my drill instructors and superiors but that is for another time.

Finally my own experiences with men haven’t been all health. I was 16 when I made a profile on planet out and met a suppressing number of gay young athletes in my area I met some of them but they weren’t ready to admit why they wanted to meet me or that they were gay, they just wanted to fool around; I didn’t. When I turned 18 I would eventually meet a teen who seemed normal enough but turned out to be a 56 year old who had been reading my profile updates since I first posted two years earlier. In my attempt to update the “About myself:” category I had updated to keep my profile in fresh in the search engine(for thoughts who don’t know on dating sites you can search for people and edit out anyone who hasn’t updated in a month or whatever it may be) I had unintentionally told more than I realized. This internet stocker had seen lots of broken pieces who I was and put them together. I was so scared by how much he knew about me. I closed all my accounts and waited a year before trying the more secure sites that do the matching for you. I meet a nice guy who is the one I described as having nothing in common with and who wanted sex or would leave. I feel like I’m damaged already from the stoker I felt stupid and forced after the later. I then joined the Marine Copse for reasons I'm still working out. I haven't dated since I don’t know how to get into dating at the only methods are the stagnate dating pool of the gay bar in the area, online, or God dropping a man in my lap, and all I’m left with is this.

I do not have time for someone who will fall away; I do not need anyone that the second things aren't happy and healthy moves to greener pastures. I no longer have time for people who don’t know who they are or lie. I have seen people around me be betrayed at a moment of great need and I’m afraid of it happening to me. I have seen what it costs to give someone so much and then the cost it entails on them and their bodies after. I am afraid to trust because the idea of “everyone cheats” is so rampant and accepted in the gay community. I don’t know how to trust someone, anyone, with my life and happiness. I yearn for love but I fear my lover, I don’t know where to start again, and I fear that because of this I will not be open to love and trust even if someone was dropped in my lap by the hand of God.

Thats were I'm stuck.

I think the rest will come with time, and I will defiantly look into the book you suggested Daniel. Thank you for all for your advice.

[Daniel]

I'm sorry I have taken so long to reply here in my own tread I know that it's rude of me, especially when people go to the trouble of quoting a book and all. I have been thinking over what you all have mentions and trying to work stuff out as well as starting the winter semester at college I didn't know what to say.

Oh please.....not rude at all! You have a life. Good that you are tending to it! :D

I'll start with the fact that my parent's are accepting and loving towards me before and after my coming out. They married when my mom was 18. I think the only thing I have a problem with is that when they tell me I'm on the right track I have a hard time believing them because they were married by my age and didn't really experience not being in a relationship, they met when my mom was 16. I haven't had a relationship of any meaning at all yet.

I understand your concern. Gay people don't usually don't meet up on the same time clock as heterosexuals. Maybe in time this may happen (and I think it does happen for some actually), but we're only beginning to live in the age when you can take your date to the prom. Heterosexual's have had that, for what, a zillion years now? :rolleyes: Our 'love at first sight' factor is somewhat different. There are other hurdles to get over: homophobia perhaps being a major concern and internalized homophobia the big daddy of them all.

And BTW: please don't forget: you have had a meaninglful relationship - with your parents.....and it sounds like a loving one. That counts for something. And that will help you have the kind of relationship you want with another man.

I met my guy when I was 34 and he was 39.....so you know....sometimes ya gotta be patient...and I don't see anyone standing around wth stopwatches!

The other relationship that affects me most it that of my mother’s parents, they divorced and both remarried still staying close. May grandfather would eventually die of thought cancer when I was about two. I tell that story to tell this one. No one in my family liked my step-grandmother and when my grandfather became ill she started to see someone that would become he now husband. This hurt my mom and my grandmother, and through hurting them it hurts me.

What you are describing recalls the two words: Love Maps. And I think there is even a book title to this effect. The point here being that how we see others treat each other rubs off on to us...and some of that ain't good. (drop a letter and you have God :lol:)

Another relationship that affected me more recently is a cousin of mine who shortly before I went into the Marine’s was kicked out of the Army because he tested HIV+ leading to his being kicked out for homosexual conduct. This would lead me to doubt some of what I was told by my drill instructors and superiors but that is for another time.

Well....that would make anyone think twice, or thrice. I certainly remember- years ago- when I thought I might be infected with HIV. Scared the shit out of me. Living with that kind of fear, and fear of being infected can mess with one's head. Fortunately, if one gets the proper sex education, a lot of those fears can be dealt with. Learning what is risky, and what is not. How to use a condom etc. It's important stuff. And if you have any concerns, I encourage you to go to a clinic and get have a 'primer' in keeping yourself and any potential partner safe. It's not hard to do.

Finally my own experiences with men haven’t been all health. I was 16 when I made a profile on planet out and met a suppressing number of gay young athletes in my area I met some of them but they weren’t ready to admit why they wanted to meet me or that they were gay, they just wanted to fool around; I didn’t. When I turned 18 I would eventually meet a teen who seemed normal enough but turned out to be a 56 year old who had been reading my profile updates since I first posted two years earlier. In my attempt to update the “About myself:” category I had updated to keep my profile in fresh in the search engine(for thoughts who don’t know on dating sites you can search for people and edit out anyone who hasn’t updated in a month or whatever it may be) I had unintentionally told more than I realized. This internet stocker had seen lots of broken pieces who I was and put them together. I was so scared by how much he knew about me. I closed all my accounts and waited a year before trying the more secure sites that do the matching for you. I meet a nice guy who is the one I described as having nothing in common with and who wanted sex or would leave. I feel like I’m damaged already from the stoker I felt stupid and forced after the later. I then joined the Marine Copse for reasons I'm still working out. I haven't dated since I don’t know how to get into dating at the only methods are the stagnate dating pool of the gay bar in the area, online, or God dropping a man in my lap, and all I’m left with is this.

Oh God! That's something. Stalkers you don't want. And it sounds like you did the right thing at the time. You know, I met my guy just as the internet dating thing was coming into being, but we didn't meet that way. Actually, it was at the gym across the street from where I work. Now. Granted. I live in NYC. A big city. And there are advantages and disadvantages of living as a gay man in a big city. There are lots more guys to meet. And- as you note- there is the potential for screwing around. That said: finding one's partner for life- while a journey in itself- is a reality worth striving for. Know what? The best I can say is: don't give up on yourself.

I do not have time for someone who will fall away; I do not need anyone that the second things aren't happy and healthy moves to greener pastures. I no longer have time for people who don’t know who they are or lie. I have seen people around me be betrayed at a moment of great need and I’m afraid of it happening to me. I have seen what it costs to give someone so much and then the cost it entails on them and their bodies after. I am afraid to trust because the idea of “everyone cheats” is so rampant and accepted in the gay community. I don’t know how to trust someone, anyone, with my life and happiness. I yearn for love but I fear my lover, I don’t know where to start again, and I fear that because of this I will not be open to love and trust even if someone was dropped in my lap by the hand of God.

What's you've artlculated there is, for me, is the heart of your post. And where, frankly, you bare your soul. It's hard to keep your heart open when it gets stomped on. For straight and gay people both. Really hard. But it sounds as though you have gone up a notch in your development (if I can put it in such a crude fashion) by not putting up with lies and those who only want (I'm being blunt here) a quick fuck.

Good for you!


Thats were I'm stuck.

This is where we disagree. I don't think you're stuck. I think you've climbed out of the sewer and onto a large plateau. Now you are in the process of getting the lay of the land. Getting a better sense of your own self.

You're afraid to trust a new guy based on past experience. And in one sense, that's a very good thing. Your brain is working to keep you from harm. That's a healthy fear if you ask me. That said, my sense is that one only learns how to love, and be loved, by loving. yeah....it sounds like a catch 22, but that's been my experience.

I want to say something here, something you might want to keep in mind: we teach people how to treat us. And since you have decided that you aren't going to put up with (I'm being colorful again) shit, well...there is a distinct likelhood that less shit is going to happen. :D

Do you pray? You you leave some time during the day to sit quietly? Like for 20 minutes? To hear what that little still small voice is saying to you? Do this and you may find yourself having urges/feelings to go places and do things that lead to good things. What I'm saying here is that, whatever you call it, meditation, prayer, talking to God, teaches us to trust ourselves- to 'own' our own inner guidance system. It's got to come from within. You have to build up your trust from within. This will take you- my friend- where you want to go. And that still small voice with keep you out of trouble. Really. It will. Only thing you have to do is practice, give it time.

The flower blooms when it has enough warmth, sunlight, water and the right climate. Give yourself that.

Ask God- or who or whatever you want to call it- to help you. He will. Intentions matter.

I think the rest will come with time, and I will defiantly look into the book you suggested Daniel. Thank you for all for your advice.

I hope you mean definitely and not defiantly! ;)
Surrendering to love is a risky business. And he is holding out his hand to you. Take it!


:love::love::love::love: