Fear of God

[drewcaine]

No, I don't mean the band>_>
This has been bugging me for some time, and I really didn't want to bring it up, but I really, really, really want to understand this.
Ok, I know that we fear God (we're supposed to) but I don't really understand what it means...You see, take the horror movie Halloween (you know, with Michael Myers, white mask, stalks baby-sitters?o_O)-if we were to be put in the shoes of Laurie Strode then we'd obviously fear the killer (Myers) and be afraid of him to the point of running in the opposite direction.
However, if we're also supposed to fear God, then what does that mean? I don't want to run away from God (that would totally finish me off at this point) because I love him. Now I'm confused...
It's hard for me to discuss and comprehend this topic (I don't want to commit blasphemy or anything), but do any of you guys understand what I've layed on the table? I also apologize if this sounds like an incomplete apologetic/question or whatever. I'll be waiting for responses.
drewcaine

[Gregory_de_Bois]

We are supposed to respect God. Perfect Love casts out fear. I don't know the hebrew and greek words for the verses that say that, but I am pretty sure they are different than what we mean by fear in English. It is a very interesting and perplexing question.

[Alecto]

I was told by a nun in Catholic school (who may have just been making it up) that it's supposed to mean we fear making God angry or something. Because, we love him and don't want to do things he doesn't like etc.

[AdamofEden]

I think it's more like a fear/respect mixture. If you are someone's friend you will usually start to see yourself as equal to that person, in God's case your not. So you need to stay humble and this is accomplished by remembering he is you're judge. This is something that tends to make people fearful. In my opinion God is saying this fear is natural and necessary so we stay humbled, but god is not some monster coming to get you and throw you into the pit of hell like the scary fundamentalists rant about. God is still your friend that loves you but needs your respect to help maintain order, allot like a parent or "Father" would.

[paul]

No, I don't mean the band>_>
This has been bugging me for some time, and I really didn't want to bring it up, but I really, really, really want to understand this.
Ok, I know that we fear God (we're supposed to) but I don't really understand what it means...You see, take the horror movie Halloween (you know, with Michael Myers, white mask, stalks baby-sitters?o_O)-if we were to be put in the shoes of Laurie Strode then we'd obviously fear the killer (Myers) and be afraid of him to the point of running in the opposite direction.
However, if we're also supposed to fear God, then what does that mean? I don't want to run away from God (that would totally finish me off at this point) because I love him. Now I'm confused...
It's hard for me to discuss and comprehend this topic (I don't want to commit blasphemy or anything), but do any of you guys understand what I've layed on the table? I also apologize if this sounds like an incomplete apologetic/question or whatever. I'll be waiting for responses.
drewcaine

Hi Drew,

I guess I have a bit of a different take on this. I don't think the "fear of God" spoken of in the bible is talking of respect. There's quite a bit about the fear of God in the Tenach. Read through the law of Moses and you'll find plenty to be afraid of. The law was a "schoolmaster" to direct. But the greater law as alluded to by Gregory and taught by Jesus is "love." Jesus cites the scary laws in his teaching and then pretty much demonstrates how love is to replace fear (of the consequeces of the law).

Why would one fear God? Well, it's the "beginning of wisdom." But once wisdom has taken hold, the fear born of ignorance is replaced by love, which "casts out all fear."

at least, that's how I understand the bible.:)

[Emproph]

To expound on the respect/humility notion, if God is in control, then all that exists and occurs is truly for the greater good, including all pain and all fear. So to truly accept/respect God, is to also accept what can never be accepted, as a perfect part of God’s will.

In other words, evil itself is a necessary ingredient in the process of increasing Love. The perpetual increase of Love being God’s only will.

I’m not saying evil in itself is good -- for evil is the love of the absence of love -- but that a personal experience of its unacceptable nature is essential for us to learn how to become permanent and perpetual generators of agape love -- the goal.

In essence, to accept God’s love, is to also accept the perception of the absence of love (evil), as a part of it.

Before the fall, we had no concept of good OR bad. Our awareness of them was in such harmony it was bliss all the time - heaven. Thus, we didn’t understand the “danger” of perceiving good and bad separately, and thus ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Now we see them as separate institutions, as such, we need to regain a “perfectly” balanced awareness of these two states. But this time, the end result will be a conscious awareness of that balance, and a conscious awareness of the mechanics of eternal bliss.

We’ll have the skill to be co-creators with God, as opposed to before the fall where our creative abilities were limited by our nascent state.

That’s the way I see it anyway. Every time I see the magnitude of God’s love, I am immediately struck by the awareness that what we call evil is a minute but intrinsic part of it, and thus is something I must forever accept.

And it truly scares me.

[Zerbie]

To expound on the respect/humility notion, if God is in control, then all that exists and occurs is truly for the greater good, including all pain and all fear. So to truly accept/respect God, is to also accept what can never be accepted, as a perfect part of God’s will.

In other words, evil itself is a necessary ingredient in the process of increasing Love. The perpetual increase of Love being God’s only will.

I’m not saying evil in itself is good -- for evil is the love of the absence of love -- but that a personal experience of its unacceptable nature is essential for us to learn how to become permanent and perpetual generators of agape love -- the goal.

In essence, to accept God’s love, is to also accept the perception of the absence of love (evil), as a part of it.

Before the fall, we had no concept of good OR bad. Our awareness of them was in such harmony it was bliss all the time - heaven. Thus, we didn’t understand the “danger” of perceiving good and bad separately, and thus ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Now we see them as separate institutions, as such, we need to regain a “perfectly” balanced awareness of these two states. But this time, the end result will be a conscious awareness of that balance, and a conscious awareness of the mechanics of eternal bliss.

We’ll have the skill to be co-creators with God, as opposed to before the fall where our creative abilities were limited by our nascent state.

That’s the way I see it anyway. Every time I see the magnitude of God’s love, I am immediately struck by the awareness that what we call evil is a minute but intrinsic part of it, and thus is something I must forever accept.

And it truly scares me.

Fascinating. Where'd ya get all this?
Your metaphysical musings are so unique. :)

I can be with you on most of the above. However, the distinguishing characteristic of evil, that which makes it so unacceptable, so incomprehensible, is that its nature is to be Cut Off from the whole. That which is evil is shut off from the divine entirety.

To say then that the shut off 'evil' thing is part of God's love says to me that by definition then, God both hates him/herself, AND deliberately attempts to cut off his/her children from Godself in order to destroy them.

Do you see God this way?

I'm going to create a spin-off thread so as not to hijack this one, to ask the forumites a question your post inspired.

[Emproph]

To say then that the shut off 'evil' thing is part of God's love says to me that by definition then, God both hates him/herself, AND deliberately attempts to cut off his/her children from Godself in order to destroy them.

Do you see God this way?

God would never see it that way, but it’s possible for us to see God as seeing it that way from our perspective (separation/evil).

From God’s perspective, separateness is apart-of oneness. So to understand and perceive oneness, is to understand and perceive oneness AND separateness, at the same time. This is what I understand God’s perspective to be like. God is God’s children, therefore God is God, AND God’s children at the same time.

We, being on the “separate from God” end of the spectrum, are incapable of comprehending separation and oneness at the same time. At least at this point.

Separateness is an illusion, to that extent, so is evil. But while we’re on this end of God’s perspective of itself, the illusion is understood to be real.

There is no limit to the ability of love to create the illusion of fear and pain, but the greater the pain, and the greater the fear - the greater the reward.

It’s not that God doesn’t perceive all pain and fear, it’s that God perceives it along with the reward (increased love/heaven) it produces. But on our end (of God’s perspective), we experience pain, fear, and evil without the benefit of knowing their benefit. God however, does.

The story of Jesus is the best example of note, the goal seems to be the ability to recognize the “reality” of fear and pain as an illusion - while experiencing it.

Thus the fear of God. The reward is infinite and eternal, but the price -- while it’s being paid -- is immeasurably intolerable.

[scott snedeker]

For pagans, fear is the opposite of God and the connection to God. To us the phrase "Fear of God" is an oxymoron like saying "bitterness of sugar."
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[paul]

For pagans, fear is the opposite of God and the connection to God. To us the phrase "Fear of God" is an oxymoron like saying "bitterness of sugar."
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Scotty,

While I feel I can discuss this subject from a biblical perspective, I have to agree with your assessment. I really feel that "fear of God" is one of the topics that humanizes Judeo/Christianity. Humanizes as in evolution of people and consequently their religion. I have seen many try, and have tried myself, to reconcile the God of the Tenach with the God Jesus and cannot do it. Seems to me that Jesus couldn't reconcile either since he is credited for the turn from fear to love where God is concerned.

I cannot fathom a God who commands genocide or hell among other stuff. To me those must be the expressions of people, not a loving God.

[drewcaine]

Wow...so much stuff to take in :$ Well, at least I'm trying to understand something:|
drewcaine