Evil?

[Zerbie]

I will try to tread lightly, folks. Emproph's post on the Fear thread made me wonder how many folk have encountered something or someone that registered with them as possibly 'evil.' By that I mean, something not just 'bad' but so beyond the pale, so against all of Life, that it. . . changed your perceptions and made you aware that there are very dark things in this world.

If the answer is yes, you don't have to say what it is/was. Just curious about the 'if' part.

Mostly I try to avoid the subject and thinking about it because I believe it is healthy to stay away from. But it is not healthy to deny that there are things out there which are. . . incredibly dark. So, treading carefully. . . ?

[Daniel]

I think that in the order of things, ignorance comes first before evil. But that's a very Buddhist (at least to me) perspective. In that sense, I am hesitant to say that evil is a 'thing', an 'entity', and thus, the 'devil'.

You know, the Buddhist's teach about the Bardo which one encounters after death. There, one encounters the wrathful deites, which, if one keeps one's head on straight, turn into the benevolent deities. The point here is that, whatever one see's comes from the person projecting it. That's interesting to me because there is the strong- yea- at almost times- tangible desire to see 'evil' as 'out there'. And from the Buddhist perspective, what is 'out there' is actually 'in there'.

And you know what?

As gay folk we know all about that, don't we? We're the one's who- for a great many people- are 'out there'.

I once had a series of dreams where I found myself encountering an evil presence, which, in the dream, manifested as a vampire. Scared the (excuse me) shit out of me. Lasted for several months. I was doing serious meditation practice at the time btw, and believe I was encountering my own fears- and having a good look at them (yes dear reader- it had everything to do with sex and death). So it's not pretty. Life alway's isn't.

I think the trick is (if there is one) to stay with the flow, become as aware and lucid about this stuff as one can.

For me, thinking about an external reality called 'evil' only validates the darkness. I would rather find the light switch.

[keltic63]

For me, thinking about an external reality called 'evil' only validates the darkness. I would rather find the light switch.

for many people, thinking about the external reality of evil not only validates the darkness, but it relieves them of the horrible thought that they themselves could commit a horrendous deed. Hitler was "evil" Dahmer was "evil" and thus, being a special kind of "evil" we (or those who believe this) are absolved of examining those parts of themselves that could possibly commit similar atrocities. "if there is an external entity that is evil, then it's not possible for me to do evil things....."

[Emproph]

Not so much in this world, at least not personally. The Exorcist comes to mind. But even that is still based on the non-physical world interacting with this one.

My witness has been of the nature of what is known as "sleep paralysis." Which there is actually a lot of information on (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sleep+paralysis%22) at this point. It's apparently pretty common. I wish I'd known that at 13.

From DreamsNightmares.com (http://www.dreamsnightmares.com/sleepparalysis.html), bold mine:
Sleep paralysis is now being studied as an explanation for terrors in the night, which have been experienced by people across all cultures and for thousands of years. If one is looking for a purely physical and scientific explanation for these terrible nightmares, this one works quite well. For some it will offer relief but for others, doubt.

Sleep paralysis is a condition in which someone, most often lying in a supine (face up) position, about to drop off to sleep, or just upon awaking from sleep realizes that s/he is unable to move, or speak, or cry out. This may last a few seconds or several moments, occasionally longer. People frequently report feeling a 'presence' that is often described as malevolent, threatening, or evil. An intense sense of dread and terror is very common. The presence is likely to be vaguely felt or sensed just out of sight but thought to be watching or monitoring, often with intense interest, sometimes standing by, or sitting on the bed. On some occasions, the presence may attack, strangling and exerting crushing pressure on the chest.

Over the years I've become adept enough at lucid dreaming AND these types of experiencing an evil presence, that the paralysis part is rarely a part of the equation anymore. However, the evil presence experience still continues to happen.

I'm 39 now, and since I was 13, the depth of unmitigating, uncompromising, fear inducing evil has ALWAYS been the same.

I've taken strides to determine whether they are projections on my part, or actual independent entities. Everything from loving them and praying to Jesus to help, to fighting with them and engaging the bottomless fear which describes this evil.

From what I can determine, based on my own personal research in regard to these experiences, is that these are indeed separate entities - whether formerly human or demonic (or if there is even a difference), I don't know. One thing is certain, whether it's from my own mind or not, it's definitely the "beyond the pale" evil that you speak of.

I don't want to leave it on that note, so to clarify just a bit further, we may be surrounded by 'evil entities' all the time, as they would naturally gravitate to where they can cause the most damage, but we are also surrounded by the angels, who allow their presence. The question then becomes, why?

I suggest that question not to imply that the angels are somehow condoning of evil, but to imply their knowlege that safety exists within the midst of, and surrounds all evil.

--
And I have a lot more to say on the "sleep paralysis" subject, and what has been sucessful for me in dealing with it if anyone is interested. If need be contact me by pm. :)

[Zerbie]

Emp, let me know if you'd prefer I take this to PM.

I am curious if you "see" these entities at all? Have they shape? Color? Have they a temperature? Have they any weight?

[Emproph]

Emp, let me know if you'd prefer I take this to PM.

I am curious if you "see" these entities at all? Have they shape? Color? Have they a temperature? Have they any weight?
That's the only thing that seems to be missing is any definable features or characteristics, it's just a presence.

The only reason I consider this/them to be separate from me is because whenever it happens, I feel that there is a definite distinction between me and the evil presence. The perception is that the evil/fear is incoming and directed toward me.

And it's only when I'm sleeping, I may be completely aware that I'm asleep at the time, but as soon as I wake up, the fear/evil presence is gone.

I know my sister has experienced this, as well as my other sister's niece, even Oprah mentioned it on a show some years back, and I'm certain I've brought this up with friends who've also experienced it. It's always while you're sleeping, usually upon falling asleep or waking up.

[Zerbie]

Looking over the descriptions on those webpages, Emp, I wondered, is this where originated tales of the incubus and succubus? (Jus' followin' the tangent, ya'll.)

I am curious what you've done to deal with it (them?) that worked for you.

Danny - I remember about your Nosferatu dreams. That is a truly terrifying image. And to discover it was expressing a depth of fear that was within you. I can relate to that.

Keltic's caution is mine as well. I prefer not to dwell on dark topics - it breeds dark thoughts. Light switch!! :) (Don't ask why I started this conversation, I don't know.:p)

[tdogg]

There are two things that stand out for me on this issue, on a personal level. Both situations were in the period of my time with my ex-husband. While it may not be necessarily 'evil' there was some mental illness he had, which sometimes led to somewhat violent situations.

Recurrent dreams of finding dead human bodies in my personal spaces (home, car work) and I would have to dispose of them or people would think I did the killing. Once I left him, I've never experienced this dream. Evil? Probably not. I've been told it probably meant that something on an emotional level was in the process of dying.

Another was a 'spirit' presence in the house, in the form of a cat on the bed (you know, kneading, walking around the bed). I had a cat but it spent nights in the bathroom (ex would not allow the cat around the house at nite). I used to think it was my imagination (and this went on for about 2 or 3 years before I left him), until he mentioned it. That was quite scary for me.

My stepmother, who is very fundamentally right-winged and religious, was during my younger years obsessed with the spiritual and 'demonic', and used to watch horribly terrifying 'devil' and 'evil' movies. And bullied the children into watching them. It was a terrifying time in my life, and i was always on the watch for evil things. I prefer not going there at all. Don't watch scary movies, play Ouija or drum up spirits, don't like to talk about devil and demons, etc.

I definitely prefer the light!

[Alecto]

I think there's a balance thing, and that we've all got a darkness about us. I think for most people, it's better and healthier to find some outlet for it. Maybe it's being ok with watching really gross violent movies. Other folks write some really bizarre and terribly twisted fiction. I'm ok with that (though I may not always particularly feel like reading it). I'm comfortable with the fact that I have the potential for some screwed up things. But I do think that there are some folks who don't really have any ambivalence about said things.

My most common outlet is thinking up ways to ruin someone's life. Like, seriously sadistic on an emotional level. And these are all things i would never even consider actually doing. But every once in awhile, you run into someone who doesn't seem to have that. They don't hesitate. There's a sadism and a malice and a greed all rolled up together. I don't put it out of the question that these people could change, but there are some people I've met that I would definitely put under the "evil" category. It's not common: usually people are "conflicted", or "confused", "misled", or even "damaged". But I feel like once in awhile, you get one or two that are full on evil.

[ladyinred]

I've had a few terrifying dreams myself ,are they projections? These happened in the past. I also had nightmares where I was afraid of some entity being in the room with me, not so much anymore. I will definitely not watch night- marish movies with all the blood and gore... those even scare kids It might feed into the subconscious psyche ..Of something horrible about to get "me" perhaps. Perhaps things like that prey on our fears...

[truthseeker]

All of us have varying degrees of goodness and badness in us. I have met people who seem to have a bigger measure of badness (e.g selfishness, temper, arogance, etc,etc) than others. Evil for me is an extreme form of badness. I have never sensed an evil entity, but I have sensed evil- in all honesty in myself - I was feeling jealous and resentful towards someone who didn't warrant it and I felt bad for feeling this way, and asked God to help me not feel like this and to take away these feelings. I struggled a few times more, but always asked God for help and I rarely feel like this now, and if so only mildly and I dismiss it immediately. I have just read the Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis and it's a great book about a trainee demon and his learned uncle giving him advice on how to win a human for their Lord the devil. Even if evil spirits don't exist, the book gives some good insight into human nature...;)