Dr. King Discussion: Speech Four

[antonyh]

Here is the fourth Landmark Speech of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Discussion Guide:
1) What insights did you gain from this speech about your own civil rights activism?
2) What insights could be applied to our civil rights activism as a community (not just Soulforce, but all LGBT civil rights organizations)?


"Speech at the Great March on Detroit"

23 June 1963
Detroit, Mich.

My good friend, the Reverend C. L. Franklin, all of the officers and members of the Detroit Council of Human Rights, distinguished platform guests, ladies and gentlemen, I cannot begin to say to you this afternoon how thrilled I am, and I cannot begin to tell you the deep joy that comes to my heart as I participate with you in what I consider the largest and greatest demonstration for freedom ever held in the United States. [Applause] And I can assure you that what has been done here today will serve as a source of inspiration for all of the freedom-loving people of this nation. [Applause] [Audience:] (All right)

I think there is something else that must be said because it is a magnificent demonstration of discipline. With all of the thousands and hundreds of thousands of people engaged in this demonstration today, there has not been one reported incident of violence. [Applause] I think this is a magnificent demonstration of our commitment to nonviolence in this struggle for freedom all over the United States, and I want to commend the leadership of this community for making this great event possible and making such a great event possible through such disciplined channels. [Applause]

Almost one hundred and one years ago, on September the 22nd, 1862, to be exact, a great and noble American, Abraham Lincoln, signed an executive order, which was to take effect on January the first, 1863. This executive order was called the Emancipation Proclamation and it served to free the Negro from the bondage of physical slavery. But one hundred years later, the Negro in the United States of America still isn't free. [Applause]

But now more than ever before, America is forced to grapple with this problem, for the shape of the world today does not afford us the luxury of an anemic democracy. The price that this nation must pay for the continued oppression and exploitation of the Negro or any other minority group is the price of its own destruction. For the hour is late. The clock of destiny is ticking out, and we must act now before it is too late. (Yeah) [Applause]

Continued at Stanford U:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/speeches/Speech_at_the_great_march_on_detroit.html


Prior Speeches:

Speech One:
http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4118

Speech Two:
http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4154

Speech Three:
http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4182

[antonyh]

For Birmingham tells us something in glaring terms. It says first that the Negro is no longer willing to accept racial segregation in any of its dimensions. [Applause] For we have come to see that segregation is not only sociologically untenable, it is not only politically unsound, it is morally wrong and sinful. Segregation is a cancer in the body politic, which must be removed before our democratic health can be realized. [Applause] (Yeah) Segregation is wrong because it is nothing but a new form of slavery covered up with certain niceties of complexity. [Applause] Segregation is wrong because it is a system of adultery perpetuated by an illicit intercourse between injustice and immorality. [Applause] And in Birmingham, Alabama, and all over the South and all over the nation, we are simply saying that we will no longer sell our birthright of freedom for a mess of segregated pottage. [Applause] (All right) In a real sense, we are through with segregation now, henceforth, and forevermore. [Sustained applause]

Now Birmingham and the freedom struggle tell us something else. They reveal to us that the Negro has a new sense of dignity and a new sense of self-respect. (Yes) For years— (That’s right. Come a long way) [Applause] I think we all will agree that probably the most damaging effect of segregation has been what it has done to the soul of the segregated as well as the segregator. [Applause] It has given the segregator a false sense of superiority and it has left the segregated with a false sense of inferiority. (All right) [Applause] And so because of the legacy of slavery and segregation, many Negroes lost faith in themselves and many felt that they were inferior.


I really believe that the LGBTQ community is still willing to accept homophobic segregation in many of its dimensions. Many are still selling their birthright of freedom for a mess of segregated pottage. At the root of this is the effects of homophobia, a false sense of inferiority. Many have lost faith in themselves.

We're segregated by hate crime laws that do not include us, marriage laws that make our love invisible, employment non-discrimination laws that turn a blind eye to our need to earn a livelihood.

I can't tell you how many LGBTQ people I have encountered in the last month that are still languishing in the closet. How very different is the resounding voice of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


There can be no great social gain without individual pain. And before the victory for brotherhood is won, some will have to get scarred up a bit. Before the victory is won, some more will be thrown into jail. Before the victory is won, some, like Medgar Evers, may have to face physical death. But if physical death is the price that some must pay to free their children and their white brothers from an eternal psychological death, then nothing can be more redemptive.


Possess your birthright of freedom.
Possess your birthright of freedom.
Possess your birthright of freedom.

Do it now.


Then there is another cry. They say, "Why don’t you do it in a gradual manner?" Well, gradualism is little more than escapism and do-nothingism, which ends up in stand-stillism. [Applause] We know that our brothers and sisters in Africa and Asia are moving with jet-like speed toward the goal of political independence. And in some communities we are still moving at horse-and-buggy pace toward the gaining of a hamburger and a cup of coffee at a lunch counter. [Applause]

And so we must say, now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to transform this pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our nation. [Applause] Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of racial justice. Now is the time to get rid of segregation and discrimination. Now is the time. [Applause] (Now. Now)

And so this social revolution taking place can be summarized in three little words. They are not big words. One does not need an extensive vocabulary to understand them. They are the words "all," "here," and "now." We want all of our rights, we want them here, and we want them now. [Applause] [Recording interrupted]


Do it now.

[Zerbie]

I reflected on this speech today just after sunset as I walked the ten minutes to where my car was parked. Ever do philosophical thinking while walking? The rhythm of walking can both inspire and clarify thought.

What I thought as I walked early this evening was about whether or not one takes on the fight for right, for that birthright, and what goes into making the firm determination that one will stand for right.

What came up was this: First, before one can take a stand for something better, before one can demand, or strive, for something higher or better, one must know that the better is possible, that the higher is possible. We are not going to fight, struggle, and even suffer for that which we believe is unachievable. If this is the best there is, or all that there is, then I am not going to invest energy and struggle into something I do not believe can be. So first you must know that there is something much better that can be attained.

Next, before one will fight or struggle for what is higher, for what is better, one must believe that it is worth doing. We must believe that we are worth fighting for, that we are worth attaining that better, more loving, more equitable world. If we do not believe we are worth it, we will not take on any effort. We will continue to wallow in our own misery. We are not going to stand up for someone who is not "worth it," and much of the time the one we deem "not worth it" is our self. This is a terrible lie that we have swallowed. We must regurgitate that lie, and claim the truth that each of us is intrinsically, unconditionally, eternally worth fighting for. I am worth fighting for. You are worth fighting for. Every human spirit is worth fighting for.

If there can be something better, and if we are worthy of something better, then the next thing to do is to determine that we will stand for what is right, we will stand up and demand something better, and we will work to attain what is higher. Even if we know that things could be better and believe we are worth it, if we do not invest our energy and determination to that end, things will remain as they have been. You can determine that you are worth fighting for, and that you will stand up for yourself, for what is right, for what is good, for what is higher. Indeed, you must.

[antonyh]

Next, before one will fight or struggle for what is higher, for what is better, one must believe that it is worth doing. We must believe that we are worth fighting for, that we are worth attaining that better, more loving, more equitable world. If we do not believe we are worth it, we will not take on any effort. We will continue to wallow in our own misery. We are not going to stand up for someone who is not "worth it," and much of the time the one we deem "not worth it" is our self. This is a terrible lie that we have swallowed. We must regurgitate that lie, and claim the truth that each of us is intrinsically, unconditionally, eternally worth fighting for. I am worth fighting for. You are worth fighting for. Every human spirit is worth fighting for.


I loved this Zerbie. I hope that everyone on this forum reading this will ask themselves with absolute honesty, "Do I believe that I am intrinsically, unconditionally and eternally worth fighting for?" We need to move ourselves to this freedom place.

With this new and courageous thinking we'll discover an ever increasing willingness to organize and to act. And to sacrifice.

And challenge those who want to commit adultery with their oppression.

[Pablo Rafael]

I think we all will agree that probably the most damaging effect of segregation has been what it has done to the soul of the segregated as well as the segregator. It has given the segregator a false sense of superiority and it has left the segregated with a false sense of inferiority. And so because of the legacy of slavery and segregation, many Negroes lost faith in themselves and many felt that they were inferior.

I think that Dr King makes a good point here. The damage done by prejudice and discrimination goes both way. It seems to me in our society that the prejudice comes to LGBT individuals mainly from the conservative Christian segment of society. Not only do they inflict harm on us, but they also harm themselves as they become a movement that runs counter to the principles of their founder (Christ). The attitude of superiority and arrogance is very evident in fundamentalist Christianity, and it is destructive to the attitude of humility taught in the Bible. The church suffers greatly when Christians think themselves intrinsically worth more than everyone else.

I think this is evident in our American foreign policy. I hired a man to do some appliance repair for me; he was a fundamentalist Christian who was very talkative. He was talking about the war in Iraq when he said, "It's a mess over there, but better a mess over there than a mess over here." I thought, "WHY is it better over there?" Isn't an Iraqi just a valuable as an American? It was that attitude of superiority that is so prevalent in our nation and especially in fundamentalist Christianity.

We gays are also to blame a lot when it comes to religious discrimination. We have often gone along with the idea that we can't be Christian. We have left the church and allowed it to continue in its prejudice. We have accepted the idea that we are inferior. The stance of the Catholic church shows this inferior status. Those gays who do not believe in celibacy are free to be in the church, but they can't take communion. (fortunately a policy often NOT put into practice) Communion is the high point in a Catholic service; exclusion from it creates a lower inferior class of Catholics.

Brent and I were talking about this. He says that we were too stupid to realize that we were supposed to leave the church. Now the church has to deal with us as we are.


We can’t afford to stop now because our nation has a date with destiny. We must keep moving.

I like the conversation in the previous posts. I am more and more convinced that those of us in the closet really do have to come out. We really must get moving. It does a disservice to everyone by remaining hidden. Before joining these forums I had no plans on coming out. But after communicating with all the wonderful people here, I see that it is necessary (at least for me). The discussion on these forums have had the effect of at least one gay church worker taking the step forward. I must say that it has been very liberating to come out; a burden that I continually carried has been lifted.

Also I must admit to someselfishness as well. I really want to be in a relationship and want to be married someday. Can't really do that in the closet. I'm allowed a bit of selfishness, aren't I? :confused:

Pablo

[Zerbie]

I think that Dr King makes a good point here. The damage done by prejudice and discrimination goes both way. It seems to me in our society that the prejudice comes to LGBT individuals mainly from the conservative Christian segment of society. Not only do they inflict harm on us, but they also harm themselves
I was just contemplating a specific example of this self-harm this morning. Sometimes, and I can't get too specific in public here, but sometimes - it can interfere with what one wants to achieve in life when that rigid concept of religion actually gets in one's way.

, "WHY is it better over there?" Isn't an Iraqi just a valuable as an American? It was that attitude of superiority that is so prevalent in our nation and especially in fundamentalist Christianity.

A glaring example of Christ's teachings completely unheard.

We gays are also to blame a lot when it comes to religious discrimination. We have often gone along with the idea that we can't be Christian. We have left the church and allowed it to continue in its prejudice.

Hmm. I dunno, seems to me there are many valid ways of approaching the church problem. In my case, the first observation I had with of "christian" was an example of sheer, murderous blasphemy so I thought the best way to not allow the church to continue in its prejudice was never to join one.




I like the conversation in the previous posts. I am more and more convinced that those of us in the closet really do have to come out. We really must get moving. It does a disservice to everyone by remaining hidden. Before joining these forums I had no plans on coming out. But after communicating with all the wonderful people here, I see that it is necessary (at least for me). The discussion on these forums have had the effect of at least one gay church worker taking the step forward. I must say that it has been very liberating to come out; a burden that I continually carried has been lifted.



Also I must admit to someselfishness as well. I really want to be in a relationship and want to be married someday. Can't really do that in the closet. I'm allowed a bit of selfishness, aren't I? :confused:

Pablo

That is absolutely astounding!! :eek: Wow!! That came from chatting with us?!?

Pabs, that is incredible. :):award::flower2::flower2::flower2::flower::flowe r:
I am so glad you have gotten to a place where that burden has lifted. :love:

I don't think your desire for an intimate relationship is selfish. Really. You'd be offering so much love, support, affection, strength, and companionship to your partner/husband/spouse as to make all the difference in his life. When we're with a right partner, both individuals are lifted up and we are each a stronger individual. Good partners each make the other blossom more fully into their potential and that taps into the gifts we have to give to the world.

[Vanessa White]

Posted by Zerbie:
Next, before one will fight or struggle for what is higher, for what is better, one must believe that it is worth doing. We must believe that we are worth fighting for, that we are worth attaining that better, more loving, more equitable world. If we do not believe we are worth it, we will not take on any effort. We will continue to wallow in our own misery. We are not going to stand up for someone who is not "worth it," and much of the time the one we deem "not worth it" is our self. This is a terrible lie that we have swallowed. We must regurgitate that lie, and claim the truth that each of us is intrinsically, unconditionally, eternally worth fighting for. I am worth fighting for. You are worth fighting for. Every human spirit is worth fighting for.

I absolutely agree with Zerbie and others on this point. As MLK said in this speech, "...many Negroes have lost faith in themselves and many felt that they were inferior." How many of our LGBT sisters and brothers, or even ourselves with such strong resolve, feel inferior, worthless, unlovable at times, due to the oppressive nature of how we are treated by many in society? It is very easy to believe after hearing it so long how worthless we are inside; to wallow in our own misery, to believe that it will never change and we should just accept things as they are. It may be the reason that many within our own LGBT community think that stopping at civil unions is "good enough". I used to think so. Now I know that is not the case; that it has to be full and equal, not whatever part the general society or government thinks that we should be entitled to.

I also firmly believe that our own view of self worth and dignity, and our own personal belief in what we are fighting for, is in direct correlation to how civilly active we are. I am coming into the strongest phase of my life in terms of activism. I don't believe that is any coincidence that it is also the time of my life when I feel most certain and proud of who I am, of my sexual identity, of that being a necessary and integral part of my being, not a part to feel ashamed of or needing to be hidden. I will not hide my light under a bushel anymore!

The other part of this speech that impacted me as an activist, is the point that Dr. King makes about nonviolence. "I say to you, there is power in this method. For nonviolence not only calls upon its adherents to avoid external physical violence, but it calls upon them to avoid internal violence of spirit. It calls on them to engage in that something called love. And I know it is difficult sometimes. When I say 'love' at this point, I'm not talking about an affectionate emotion. It's nonsense to urge people, oppressed people, to love their oppressors in an affectionate sense. I'm talking about something much deeper. I'm talking abut a sort of understanding, creative, redemptive goodwill for all men." In addition to feeling our own strength and worth in order to be the best activists that we can be, we need to be nonviolent in our actions, words, and spirit toward others and self. We have to embrace our own loving natures and not lie down to be stomped upon, but to at least embrace our understanding of others.

One discussion that took many forms on our forums recently I think had to do with this very thing, understanding the other's point of view. The discussion seemed to infer (by someone who is no longer around here) that how could we demand to be understood, if we weren't willing to understand others? The difference to me, is that understanding does not have to mean acceptance, of mistreatment and lies and deception. It just means we start to have a clue about why others believe what they believe. But it then challenges us, I think, to not stop there, but to create a newer, more accurate understanding, for ourselves and others.

I really think that many of us here have no idea how powerful we are, or could be........:love::love::love::love:

[Vanessa White]

Pablo: what a joy that you are feeling, may I say, FREE-ER to be who you are truly, in your soul of souls. What a beautiful transformation, and to have us here be a part of that is amazing and inspiring!!

I really mean it, we don't have any idea how powerful we could be- to facilitate change, to embark on new journeys for equality. Coming out of our individual closets is terrifying for so many different, diverse reasons, but the feeling of self-love and pure acceptance of self is almost too overwhelming to talk about. For me, I feel like a whole person for the first time in my ENTIRE life. REALLY.

I really also believe that many of our oppressors have no idea how much they damage themselves when they intentionally put damage upon us. When those harsh words are spoken to us, they do damage to their souls as well, permanent unless they choose to look at us with more loving, not pitiful, eyes. I almost think, probably much like the experience of the black person especially many years ago, it is about people seeing us as people, as human beings, as having hearts and souls and feelings. I think that is why Dr. King rings so true in my soul when I hear his speeches or read them. He helped his people go from invisible to visible, to themselves and to others.

:love::love::love:

[Zerbie]

You are right. This is another topic I have been contemplating recently. We have SO much potential, SO much energy, so very much power and influence. Don't believe me? Just think of the last time some vague acquaintance of very little consequence to your life overall made an impact on you. Maybe they said something negative and you felt annoyed or hurt. Or perhaps something positive that 'made your day.'
Did someone do something idiotic in traffic around you today? Did you get annoyed? Power and influence. It sounds silly at first, until you think of adding up the combined influence one little individual can have over a lifetime, for good or for ill, on those around them. Consider people who 'get' you and bother you, maybe it's petty quarreling -- that's what they are doing with their potential. So, if a small little person can wield that much power in little ways, what can we be if we consciously use our energy to generate that which is positive, uplifting, alive, in love, and aware? [/COLOR]

For me, I feel like a whole person for the first time in my ENTIRE life. REALLY.

:dove:
Unfold those wings! :magic::):rainbow:

I really also believe that many of our oppressors have no idea how much they damage themselves when they intentionally put damage upon us. When those harsh words are spoken to us, they do damage to their souls as well,

Yes. I am sure they are not aware. If they were, they would not do it, because, surely, they do not intend to hurt themselves. So there must be some other reason why they do it.

I think that is why Dr. King rings so true in my soul when I hear his speeches or read them. He helped his people go from invisible to visible, to themselves and to others.

:love::love::love:

It's silly to quibble, but I believe if MLK were here to be asked who his people are, he would answer that all people are "his" people. That is why his 'approach' was so powerful - it was not really an 'approach' after all, it is an eternal truth.

[Vanessa White]

As far as who MLK might describe his people to be. I agree that today I believe he would say all people; and I don't know that he would not have said so 45 years ago. But, while he embraced the assistance of minorities and their allies in the fight at that time, he was fighting for the rights of the black person, with a goal of uniting all people. I don't find this quibbling, but a good way to clarify conversation. Those that he most represented as the ones whom were oppressed and violated are who I meant by his people. Does that make sense?

I find that my most vivid time of ideas and processing of concepts is at night; as Zerbie was saying on her way to her car, she was thinking things through. Later in the evening, when the world quiets down, is when my head revs up!!! :lol: But I find I can put concepts together better at night, it seems all wires are firing at once then.....:love:

[Zerbie]

As far as who MLK might describe his people to be. I agree that today I believe he would say all people; and I don't know that he would not have said so 45 years ago. But, while he embraced the assistance of minorities and their allies in the fight at that time, he was fighting for the rights of the black person, with a goal of uniting all people. I don't find this quibbling, but a good way to clarify conversation. Those that he most represented as the ones whom were oppressed and violated are who I meant by his people. Does that make sense?
:

Yes it does.
I perceive two levels to it. On one level, there is the group with whom one identifies, and/or the group one is advocating directly, specifically FOR. On another level, the reason why you do the advocating is, one hopes, the underlying presence of the same soul, same humanness, in all people, that underlying soul being the reason *why* you advocate for the oppressed. But yeah, on a less cosmological level, the african american would be King's "people" the way that LGBT persons might be "our people." The distinctions being important in the way things play out socially/politically, but nevertheless temporal. The underlying unity is the *reason* for activism, and in that awareness, all people are our people.

Now am *I* making any sense to you?

[antonyh]

I think that Dr King makes a good point here. The damage done by prejudice and discrimination goes both way. It seems to me in our society that the prejudice comes to LGBT individuals mainly from the conservative Christian segment of society. Not only do they inflict harm on us, but they also harm themselves as they become a movement that runs counter to the principles of their founder (Christ). The attitude of superiority and arrogance is very evident in fundamentalist Christianity, and it is destructive to the attitude of humility taught in the Bible. The church suffers greatly when Christians think themselves intrinsically worth more than everyone else.

I like the conversation in the previous posts. I am more and more convinced that those of us in the closet really do have to come out. We really must get moving. It does a disservice to everyone by remaining hidden. Before joining these forums I had no plans on coming out. But after communicating with all the wonderful people here, I see that it is necessary (at least for me). The discussion on these forums have had the effect of at least one gay church worker taking the step forward. I must say that it has been very liberating to come out; a burden that I continually carried has been lifted.

Also I must admit to someselfishness as well. I really want to be in a relationship and want to be married someday. Can't really do that in the closet. I'm allowed a bit of selfishness, aren't I? :confused:

Pablo

You're such a blessing! I hope that as you come out that you will find that special one, your beloved.

I'm glad that you brought up the idea of how homophobia harms the homophobic. It is hard for me to think about how bigotry hurts the bigot. I guess it is worth thinking about because it is a very fruitful way to talk to our adversaries.

[Vanessa White]

Had to go back and read it a couple of more times today, we both are speaking the same words but just in a bit of a different way, so I had to go back at it. That being said, I really want to be clear that I firmly believe that MLK did not exclude anyone from the grand unity that he had in mind; the oppression and need to end it were not exclusive to the group to whom he belonged. I guess my perception in that way, is along the lines of the fact that those, the black persons at the time, were the ones most visibly being oppressed/violated/discriminated against in relation to his message at the time.

I really think at times that the idea of total human connectedness, interdependence if you will, seems like a pipe dream to many persons. Like, it would not be possible for many persons from all aspects of life to be able to live in harmony, work together for a more just, peaceful world? I feel like I should be breaking into some stereotypical peace song, but I have never stopped believing in the capability of this world, and its people, to heal itself. I think that is another aspect of Dr. King that impacts me so deeply, is that he always sounds hopeful, even when in the present moment, he is discouraged or disheartened. Hope always remains in his message.

We must never lose our hope, even when we are tired and fed up. That is why the more of us striving, the less tired we may get....:love: