My first post

[chuck2pastor]

My name is Chuck and I've been a United Methodist pastor for 25 years. I'm married with two wonderful daughters. I'm scared out of my mind to be writing on this forum, but I have been struggling for so long, that I need to get this out. I am gay, and I am glad to say that I do have some close friends that I am out to; I'd like to be more open, but the consequences of that are too much for me to handle -- right now. In my area, there is a group called Grace for All which is working for the full inclusion of GLBT persons in the life of the church; while the members are mostly UM, the group is ecumenical in nature.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.

Peace,
Chuck

[tdogg]

Wow, you've said a lot in just a few words! First off, welcome to you and I'm glad you found your way here! Yeah! Hope you stay around and see how wonderful it is here on the forums. You will find a lot of support.

Then, you need to ask yourself, "how can who I am be the biggest mistake?" It's not a mistake, you are who you are. God created you gay and if it was a problem, you wouldn't have been created gay. Period.

That's a challenge to get through tho! Well, there are many here who will be happy to discuss it with you. And will certainly be encouraging and supportive. Being out to a few is a start. It sounds like you have a supportive group which is important when you are coming out.

I was afraid at first, but when I realized that being myself and living out was quite wonderful, and that there was no indication that God was horrified at it (in fact the opposite is quite true - I'm so very blessed!), it's been nothing short of awesome and I wouldn't change a thing! (Well, maybe just to have accepted myself and come out sooner!).

Welcome & so glad you are here! :love::rainbow::D

Tdogg

[Zerbie]

My name is Chuck and I've been a United Methodist pastor for 25 years. I'm married with two wonderful daughters. I'm scared out of my mind to be writing on this forum, but I have been struggling for so long, that I need to get this out. I am gay, and I am glad to say that I do have some close friends that I am out to; I'd like to be more open, but the consequences of that are too much for me to handle -- right now. In my area, there is a group called Grace for All which is working for the full inclusion of GLBT persons in the life of the church; while the members are mostly UM, the group is ecumenical in nature.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.

Peace,
Chuck

:dove:
:love::love::love:

Welcome, Chuck. Thank you for having the courage to share about yourself and your situation. I am glad you are not completely alone, and that you've come to talk with us.

Do not feel that you are under any kind of pressure to take steps or make decisions that might not be right for you, or that might not be timely. We're all here to be friends and supports for one another, through all kinds of challenges from the monumental to the mundane.

I hope you will enjoy being part of this group, and that you'll stick around, sharing back and forth with us. Let us know if we can offer our collective listening ear, and be of support to you. This is a great bunch of people here.

I'm very glad you posted here. You're safe. :love:
:rainbow::pray:

[keltic63]

Welcome Chuck,

I see that you've already read through status' intro thread, and it encouraged you to tell us about your own life. It's terrifying and invigorating all at the same time! My first few days of being out felt so strange. I thought everyone was staring at me, knowing that I was gay, and yet everything felt so much better. Brighter colors, more intense aromas, heightened hearing, extra sensitive touch. There are many of us who have been where you are, and have taken steps to live honestly. No one here will tell you what you must do, but everyone here will encourage you to find what works best for you and that will allow you to live honestly in the light of God's grace!

[antonyh]

I work at Reconciling Ministries Network (http://www.rmnetwork.org) and we're working for the liberation of LGBT people in the United Methodist Church. You're always welcome to give us a call at 773-736-5526. Sue and Troy are both very well connected in the UMC and could link you up with some excellent people. You can call me but I'm kind of new there...but I'd love to chat.

There are many LGBT UMC ministers experiencing the same fear you are experiencing. I just posted a link to a letter signed by some of these clergy people. I'm sure you've read it, but here you go:

http://www.rmnetwork.org/storage/rmnetwork/files/Pastoral%20Letter.pdf

You may also want to reach out to our Reconciling Clergy Extension Ministry:
http://www.rmnetwork.org/rmc.asp

[chuck2pastor]

Thanks for the info. I am already subscribed to the clergy list of RMN, but even though I had heard of the letter signed by 75 clergypeople, I had not actually read it, until now. Thanks also for the phone number and the offer to chat--that really means a lot to me.

[Pablo Rafael]

Hi Chuck,

It wasn't long ago that I wrote my first post on these forums. It was the first time I had ever told anyone that I was gay. It was a big step. With each person I have told, I feel another weight being lifted. I hope that your experience here will be as valuable as mine has.

Being a church worker and being gay is often a tough combination. Being gay shouldn't make any difference, but it does to people. When I come out at work in a few months, I plan on getting some hostility and am braced to lose my job. Fortunately I am financially secure enough that the job loss won't be that problematic. (But I like my job and will miss it!)

What has surprised me a little so far is that I have gotten no negative responses to coming out. I'm sure some are coming, but so far everyone has been understanding and supportive. My mom isn't real happy with the idea, but she loves me unconditionally.

I pray that your journey, whatever it may be, will be as positive as mine has been. The people on these forums can be a great help.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[Daniel]

.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.


Welcome to Soulforce.

I don't think you will come to regret your decision to post on this forum. Yes- it may be scary, but you've taken a step (a virtual one anyway) towards being who you really are. And that's no small matter. That's a huge deal. Of course it is going to stir up the pot.

Hold that to your last thought. And please stick around. There are some great folks here who can- and will be- be a big help to you.

Don't let your fear get the best of you, Ok? I'm sure you know what that's like, right?

Time to open the curtains and let some light in.

Blessings to you.

[dsdrane]

Welcome Chuck!

You honor the God who created you by striving to live and speak the truth.

The fear will subside and turn into tremendous relief and solid conviction.

:applause::agree:

[andrewlittle]

My name is Chuck and I've been a United Methodist pastor for 25 years. I'm married with two wonderful daughters. I'm scared out of my mind to be writing on this forum, but I have been struggling for so long, that I need to get this out.
Don't let fear get the best of you, friend, but just keep in mind what yu may need to do to keep yourself safe. Our dear friend, u-dog, who has already replied would probably be a great resource on how to participate openly in discussion, while safeguarding your identity and details. It can be done, and I think quite easily.

I am gay, and I am glad to say that I do have some close friends that I am out to; I'd like to be more open, but the consequences of that are too much for me to handle -- right now.
All in good time. This is a darn good place to work through the thought process, and wrestle out the faith, social and family issues that go along with your pilgrimage. Like any good pilgrimage, this will be more empowering if you take your time, and savor and reflect on each step.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.

Peace,
Chuck

Many of us, Chuck, spend varying amounts of time in the deep end, and sometimes go under for counts of one or two. (Of course, some of us also like it there - but that's another story.)

Check in with u-dog about safely negotiating the terrain while maintaining anonymity for the time being, since you are in such very similar circumstances. I, and I think others, will try to be cognizant of (and warn you if we see) posts that may be too revealing. The "edit" function is always your friend. Just an added thought - DO NOT necessarily judge my way of engaging as any kind of model. I am a minister, but I am not in your position, since I'm straight. Oh, yeah, that - and I'm a little nuts.

In particular, this is a safe place - a great place to wrestle out life issues of all kinds with people who are respectful and loving.

I am looking forward to engaging with you - and I'm particularly happy to have another clergy on board.

Andy

[Gennee]

Welcome, Chuck. You said lot and I pray for you. I agree with Zerbie that you shouldn't do something that you're not comfortable with. I hope that Soulforce can help you as you move along on your journey. I pray :pray: that all will work out according to God's will for your life.

Gennee

:love::wave:

[tdogg]

DO NOT necessarily judge my way of engaging as any kind of model. I am a minister, but I am not in your position, since I'm straight. Oh, yeah, that - and I'm a little nuts.


Andy may be nuts, but he's our nuts! Don't discount posts because he is straight (or others that are here too), he has amazing insight and gives sound advice! (well, usually...)

Hope you're doin' ok today!

[chuck2pastor]

I have been ok today, thanks. I feel that this is indeed a safe place for me to express myself. I'm glad, surprised, but glad to know that straight people are here as well.

I have known since I was 14 that I was attracted to guys, but I thought I would one day begin to be attracted to women. It didn't happen. Sometimes I wish I had never been married, but then I would never have had my daughters either. One of my friends is someone who wanted to become a pastor but didn't because he was gay and therefore not allowed to be ordained. I, on the other hand, said to heck with their rules and got ordained anyway.

Peace,
Chuck

[pnggrad79]

Oh Chuck, first of all welcome, welcome, welcome. If I could see you person to person, face to face, I would give you a huge hug!!! Coming to terms with who you are is a scary but glorious thing. For the first time, God is so gloriously glad that you are being authentic with who HE created you to be. "The truth will set you free..."

I will be praying for you and your wife, and daughters. When I came out to my two daughters, they were so cool with it, it was amazing. Now they speak out for equality and come to my defense so often. They love me and support me and my wife. I didn't stay with their father. I divorced him 7 years ago and married my wife in 2004 in Canada. Coming out to my parents and siblings wasn't that easy, but I am praying for reconciliation. I wouldn't change my coming out for nothing, however. I am in love with the most wonderful woman and I love her like there is no tomorrow.

Be blessed in all you do and in your future. You are loved here and feel free to ask questions, offer wisdom, and express your doubts, fears and uncertainties. We are a lively bunch and you will find a wide array of people. Enjoy yourself and know you are loved on this journey. God be with you and surround you in His love and His grace. :love:

[paul]

Hi Chuck,

Don't know how I missed this one.

Welcome. :wave:

Another married (to a woman) gay guy here. I'm not a pastor, though I was asked to pastor a congregation where I taught. Baptist :eek:, we all know how affirming Baptists are of gays :lol:. I declined.

You will find you are not alone. There are some wonderful people here (really. I know several have said that, but it's really true). You'll be safe posting in the forums and there's always pm's for the really personal stuff. I hope this wil prove to be a place where you can be yourself, express your questions and answers and be authentic.

Paul

[chuck2pastor]

My wife is aware of my attraction to men, but we don't discuss it; we're together for the sake of the kids, who are 16 and 18. I am not ready to tell my daughters that I'm gay, but when I am ready, I will certainly want to know how you and others handled the situation. They've become homophobic over the years, so I really don't know how they'll react. I'm just taking it one day at a time.
Peace,
Chuck

[Myinachis]

I did not say I want him to ask God not to make him gay. God made him who he is. What I said was he should not LIE to his ministry. God is TRUTH. Therefore Chuck, should tell EVRYONE the TRUTH, Chuck has a responsibility to his ministry. He can be a pastor and be gay at the sametime. :love:
No matter what religion a person is, a person should be responsible.

[Zerbie]

I did not say I want him to ask God not to make him gay. God made him who he is. What I said was he should not LIE to his ministry. God is TRUTH. Therefore Chuck, should tell EVRYONE the TRUTH, Chuck has a responsibility to his ministry. He can be a pastor and be gay at the sametime. :love:
No matter what religion a person is, a person should be responsible.

Let's slow down.

Chuck's first responsibility is to remain together in ONE PIECE as Chuck. If he is not ready to speak openly about his deepest personal feelings to an entire congregation, then his responsibility right now is to NOT do so. None of us is obligated to OFFER information about our deepest personal selves to others at any time. Stepping into anything before one is psychologically ready usually results in pain, problems, and often, sheer disaster. Therefore it is the height of irresponsibility to rush into such a personal disclosure, especially in public.

Responsibility requires understanding what one maturely and reasonably can handle at any given time. It is not to be confused with continual soul-bearing, especially not in public.

[andrewlittle]

I did not say I want him to ask God not to make him gay. God made him who he is. What I said was he should not LIE to his ministry. God is TRUTH. Therefore Chuck, should tell EVRYONE the TRUTH, Chuck has a responsibility to his ministry. He can be a pastor and be gay at the sametime. :love:
No matter what religion a person is, a person should be responsible.

Where in the world did this come from?

[keltic63]

Where in the world did this come from?

our new member doesn't play well with others. u-dog had quoted her, but after I removed the original, offensive post, he deleted his that had the offensive quote.



move along folks, nothing to see here......

[Daniel]

our new member doesn't play well with others. u-dog had quoted her, but after I removed the original, offensive post, he deleted his that had the offensive quote.

move along folks, nothing to see here......

But oh....before we move on....may I point out that to this newest member that she is holding a living human being to a standard which she has no right to demand or enforce. Not only is her suggestion offensive, it displays an ignorance of the realities of being gay in a conservative environment. And as such, she also displays an appalling lack of compassion for Chuck.

Let her walk a mile in Chuck's shoes- and then go another 10 miles- before making assertions. Assertions, I should add, which only serve the ego of the speaker.

[chuck2pastor]

While there have been periods during which Polly and I stayed together mostly for the sake of the kids (which I don't think is NECESSARILY a bad reason to stay together) we are currently together because we choose to be for ourselves. We continue to work to deepen our relationship and to find ways to be authentically intimate with each other.

have you and your wife given up on your marriage at this point? Do you plan to separate when the girls leave home? Is your wife fundamentally homophobic? Where have the girls gotten this homophobic attitude?

Chuck, you don't need to answer any of these questions if you don't feel safe or ready.

Blessings,

U-dog
My wife is indeed fundamentally homophobic; if there's a gay character in a movie or TV show, she'll refer to him as a fruit or queer. Again and again, she has said that homosexuality is unnatural, just nor right and against the Bible. We can't have a conversation on the subject. And this is where I believe my girls get their homophobia from -- their mother. And some Sunday School teachers.
I don't want to bash my wie-- she is wonderful in a lot of other ways.
We have no definite plans to separate when the girls leave home, it's not a done deal.
I am not sure how long I can remain married to someone who despises a very important part of who I am.
Peace,
Chuck

[keltic63]

My wife is aware of my attraction to men, but we don't discuss it; we're together for the sake of the kids, who are 16 and 18. I am not ready to tell my daughters that I'm gay, but when I am ready, I will certainly want to know how you and others handled the situation. They've become homophobic over the years, so I really don't know how they'll react. I'm just taking it one day at a time.
Peace,
Chuck

My wife is indeed fundamentally homophobic; if there's a gay character in a movie or TV show, she'll refer to him as a fruit or queer. Again and again, she has said that homosexuality is unnatural, just nor right and against the Bible. We can't have a conversation on the subject. And this is where I believe my girls get their homophobia from -- their mother. And some Sunday School teachers.
I don't want to bash my wie-- she is wonderful in a lot of other ways.
We have no definite plans to separate when the girls leave home, it's not a done deal.
I am not sure how long I can remain married to someone who despises a very important part of who I am.
Peace,
Chuck

the combination of these statements is raising all kinds of red flags for me. Your wife knows of your attraction to men, but feels compelled to take every opportunity to make anti-gay, homophobic remarks. She does this knowing that you have those attractions. This sounds like abuse to me. It touched something in my memory about the way my (now ex) wife behaved in our relationship. It was only after I left the marriage that a counselor helped me see that regardless of my orientation, I was in a bad marriage. Don't allow your spouse to bully you. Should the marriage dissolve, she may use your guilt about your orientation to extort you and force you to give up much more than you should. Don't fall for the emotional blackmail, although, from what you've written, it seems to be happening already.

[Zerbie]

My wife is indeed fundamentally homophobic; if there's a gay character in a movie or TV show, she'll refer to him as a fruit or queer. Again and again, she has said that homosexuality is unnatural, just nor right and against the Bible. We can't have a conversation on the subject. And this is where I believe my girls get their homophobia from -- their mother. And some Sunday School teachers.
I don't want to bash my wie-- she is wonderful in a lot of other ways.
We have no definite plans to separate when the girls leave home, it's not a done deal.
I am not sure how long I can remain married to someone who despises a very important part of who I am.
Peace,
Chuck

Understood. In light of what Keltic points out, I think your last statement here is the crux of the matter.

It disturbs me too that your wife, however wonderful she is in other ways, would say exceedingly negative things about gay men *knowing* that you yourself are one. That strikes me as very hurtful. Perhaps the homophobia/gay bashing is such an old habit that she literally has not put 2 and 2 together. Or perhaps she is angry that you like men, and this is her way of expressing anger indirectly.
I couldn't know, just speculating. But the important matter is, as long as you two decide to remain together, you each have a right to have your fundamental human nature and your deep personal feelings treated with respect.

[chuck2pastor]

Your wife knows of your attraction to men, but feels compelled to take every opportunity to make anti-gay, homophobic remarks. She does this knowing that you have those attractions. This sounds like abuse to me. ...Should the marriage dissolve, she may use your guilt about your orientation to extort you and force you to give up much more than you should. Don't fall for the emotional blackmail, although, from what you've written, it seems to be happening already.

I want to thank you and others who have written telling me what I already knew, but didn't want to admit to myself, that my wife has been emotionally abusing me. I am in a bad marriage, one that I should leave. I'll need a good lawyer and good advice from other folks so that I don't fall prey to her abuse in the (rather likely) event of divorce.
I am so glad I found this forum.

Peace,
Chuck

[pnggrad79]

Chuck,
I don't know your situation or your wife. Therefore, it would be presumptive of me to prescribe what I think should happen with your marriage. This has to be your decision, because only you know the intimate details. I sense your incredible struggle here. I believe that you love your wife, and I also believe that it would cause a tremendous strain on your marriage should you come out with your attraction to men. I don't know if your wife thinks that it is a phase or a passing fancy you have and that she will ultimately win.
I was married to a man for 19 years and fell in love with a woman, but because of my fundamentalist upbringing I denied my attraction and deep feeling for this woman. For 12 years I ran away. It was miserable. I fought it like everything. I prayed, begged, pleaded for God to take it away from me. I was married and had two little girls for heaven's sake, I couldn't be a lesbian!!! Finally, after wrestling and fighting for years, I finally came out to God and He told me to stop struggling. There was nothing to struggle over.
For me, the only choice was to divorce and follow my heart. It was the only way I could be authentic to who I was and how God created me to be. For me, to stay in a marriage to a man when I was in love with a woman, was a complete lie and it wasn't fair to him or me. My daughters understood and chose to live with me and my now wife.(we got married in Canada in 2004)
I can tell you, from my perspective, it was the best move I ever made, not without its problems, but if I had to do it over again, I would, many times. In fact, I would have come out sooner than I did. I spent way too much time struggling with this, when I didn't need to.

Again, I don't know your situation. Only you can make any determination about what you should do. My prayers are with you and your family. Whatever decision you make, we will support you and pray for you. :pray::pray::pray:

[scott snedeker]

I allowed myself to be abused ritually in a relationship for 12 years. I call it my "abused martyr" stage. I was the "rescuer" in everything and for everybody, that is except for me. My spiritual evolution remained in this stage for a painfully long time. Leaving it was emancipatinng and disasterous but allowed me to discover joy once I let go of my safe haven.

You see, "abused martyr" was an incredble emotional relief from "abomination" My spirit soared with joy and pride with the transition from lonely and worthless to superhero who saved a crack addict from perishing. As a physician I "healed" everyone by sacrificing my life. My service was compensation for a personal sense of inadequacy. I was young and had the vitality to maintain such a chimerical construct.

Slowly I became aware of a sense of entitlement to joy without sacrifice. Internally these two spiritual stages conflicted creating rage within. The only resolution was to separate. Fortunate he sabotaged a trip to San Francisco with disappearing on a week long crack binge which was the smack in the teeth needed to activate my sense of entitlement and move his belongings out and find him an apartment.

I found the ability to be comfortable with myself and....surprise! I had more love encounters than I can remember. My life today is filled with love and beautiful people.

below are two links, one is a spiritual evolution that I went through. The other is a short story of a similar transformation.

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4513

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3925

[Zerbie]

I allowed myself to be abused ritually in a relationship for 12 years. t=3925[/url]

:'( God, Scotty! :(
:love:
So glad you left that far behind! :):):love::love:


***
Chuck - I PMed you some resources - hope that is okay! :pray:

[chuck2pastor]

Scotty, if I could give you a hug right now, I would. Thank you for sharing that with me and the whole group.
Because of the group's comments, I see that what I want and need is a separation/divorce from my wife, a conclusion I have resisted because I felt so selfish in wanting a life for myself, away from the emotional abuse she has given me. I have been wrestling with this for quite some time now, so this decision is not being made lightly or quickly and carrying it out will not be done lightly or quickly either. I will take my time and do the best by my wife that I can while keeping my own interests in mind as well. I dare say I will need a lot of help with this as time goes on. Thank you to all.
Peace,
Chuck

[Steven E. Webster]

Scotty, if I could give you a hug right now, I would. Thank you for sharing that with me and the whole group.
Because of the group's comments, I see that what I want and need is a separation/divorce from my wife, a conclusion I have resisted because I felt so selfish in wanting a life for myself, away from the emotional abuse she has given me. I have been wrestling with this for quite some time now, so this decision is not being made lightly or quickly and carrying it out will not be done lightly or quickly either. I will take my time and do the best by my wife that I can while keeping my own interests in mind as well. I dare say I will need a lot of help with this as time goes on. Thank you to all.
Peace,
Chuck

Chuck,
This is a tough decision. My partner (now husband) of 25+ years was married to a woman for 15 years before we met. (When we met, he had already come out and had already separated from his wife.) He was able to divorce his wife on amicable terms and remain friends with her--they are friends to this day. I have found that many formerly heterosexually married gay men are able to accomplish this. I just hold that out as a hope for you.

Steven Webster

[Vanessa White]

The more I read of your current situation, the more grateful I am to God that you found us here- a safe haven for you, may I say, in the turmoil of your present life circumstances. Although I cannot identify on a personal level with your experience, as many others here can, I will offer my genuine support, as well as no judgment in how you need to proceed. That is what is so heartwarming about this place; we find what we need, even when we don't know that we need it, and it comes without judgment, even if it does come with firm guidance. If you pray on this yourself, I am sure that God would let you know this is the right place to be. He has let me know more than a few times.......:pray::pray::pray::love:

Hang in there.......

[keltic63]

In the United Methodist system, pastors are assigned churches by the bishop, so I had to move where I am now.

Peace,
Chuck

it sounds as though the separation has already happened! My wife and I had a similar separation; although we lived in the same house, we had separate lives.

Should you find yourself needing to separate from your wife, it's good to know you already have a place to stay.

[pnggrad79]

When I came out to myself, I literally couldn't sleep with my then husband. It turned my stomach to think about it and I had been married to him for 19 years. I chose to sleep on the couch or in the guest room. Once I made the turn, separation was easy. It felt good to be free of the inner turmoil and angst. I realized I didn't love him, and that was very liberating.

This separation, Chuck, will give you time to think and get a perspective on this that maybe living with your wife on a daily basis might not let you have. Pray, seek God's guidance on this, and above take care of yourself and don't let yourself get caught up in a negative mindset. Do what makes you happy. Set yourself free. :pray:

[WesQGA]

My name is Chuck and I've been a United Methodist pastor for 25 years. I'm married with two wonderful daughters. I'm scared out of my mind to be writing on this forum, but I have been struggling for so long, that I need to get this out. I am gay, and I am glad to say that I do have some close friends that I am out to; I'd like to be more open, but the consequences of that are too much for me to handle -- right now. In my area, there is a group called Grace for All which is working for the full inclusion of GLBT persons in the life of the church; while the members are mostly UM, the group is ecumenical in nature.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.

Peace,
Chuck

Grace and Peace to you Chuck

Greetings brother from Atlanta, GA. I am glad that you sent this post. I once wanted to be a Pastor myself but due to being gay and coming out at a young age, it became not an option for me.

But, I am here for you brother if you need to talk. We all are!

Big hugs from a little brother,

Wes:rainbow:

[NathanATX]

In the United Methodist system, pastors are assigned churches by the bishop, so I had to move where I am now.

Peace,
Chuck

Chuck,
I think it would be wise of you to speak to people who have similar background, ministry & family commitments. www.mccchurch.org (http://www.mccchurch.org) is the main website for Metropolitan Community Churches denomination. See if you can find a pastor or regional elder that can, if nothing else, give you a supportive shoulder as you make this journey.

peace,
Nate
(future MCC and/or UCC and/or Unity and/or Unitarian clergy) :)

[chuck2pastor]

This past November I contacted the local MCC and was able to talk to their pastor. Of course local is about 20 miles from where I live, which isn't too bad of a distance to go for such support. He invited me to participate in as many of his church's activities as I would like and be able to. I really appreciated his kindness to me.



I always thought I would make my marriage work for a lifetime, but I just can't do it. I just can't.

Chuck

[keltic63]

This past November I contacted the local MCC and was able to talk to their pastor. Of course local is about 20 miles from where I live, which isn't too bad of a distance to go for such support. He invited me to participate in as many of his church's activities as I would like and be able to. I really appreciated his kindness to me.



I always thought I would make my marriage work for a lifetime, but I just can't do it. I just can't.

Chuck

I know that feeling Chuck. I had the best intentions of being married for life. and when the marriage didn't cure my attraction to men, I just figured I'd have to stay married and endure it. I figured that all the hype about how wonderful a good marriage/relationship can be was just over-rated. I figured everyone else was as miserable as I was. Boy, was I wrong! I was with the wrong person and with someone of the wrong sex. Now that I got that corrected, I can't believe what I'd denied myself all those years!

[chuck2pastor]

I have a lot of questions and fears concerning my daughters as I contemplate separating from their mother. Those are separate from those concerns I have about coming out to them. I know that both of those will be difficult for them, and since I can anticipate their pain, I can choose to keep the status quo or plan how to minimize rather than maximize their pain.
Any ideas?
Chuck

[pnggrad79]

Chuck,
I have 2 daughters and as painful as it was, I came out to them the night before my partner and I flew to Canada to get married. My oldest was 16 and youngest was 13. The oldest said she had as much figured it out, but the youngest was the toughest nut to crack. She didn't understand and I spent a lot of time with her talking and listening to how she felt. Now, she is one of my biggest supporters. The oldest is, too. The oldest writes pro gay marriage papers in her English class at college. The youngest one outs herself to her bf's and tells them if they have a problem with her moms, they need to move on. I am a very proud mom of two beautiful girls, but it wasn't easy coming out to them.

You need to be honest with them and tell them, listen to them and show them that your being gay in no way diminishes your love for them. Allow them to soak up the revelation and process it how they will, and be there the whole time loving them through it. Remember as tough as it was for you to come out, it will be that tough for them to reconcile themselves with it. Seek family counseling as well, someone who is gay friendly who can help them through it.

[chuck2pastor]

I just got done talkikng to my wife. She is still angry and hurt and told me in an accusing tone that I'm not going to do anything about it. I couldn't say anything to her because I know that I'm not going to try to move from my current appointment.

After our conversation, I just ache. I am under a great strain, knowing that I want to end the marriage, but not ready to do so. I need your prayers and I need the guidance of the Holy Spirit in a big way.

Chuck

[Zerbie]

Big hugs!

((((( Chuck )))))
:pray::pray:

You got it.

My heart goes out to you, dealing with such things. Never having been in any similar situation, and not knowing you or your wife, I wouldn't dare to advise. You mentioned earlier that there was some abuse. You might want to bounce around with someone with some expertise dealing with troubled/abusive relationships to get their tips on most effective ways to go about the process of deciding to leave/how to leave, etc., since it sounds like that is what you are thinking of doing. It might help carry you through the difficult time to have a caring voice walk you through what worked/didn't work for them, for other guys in similar situations, etc.

You definitely have our prayers and best wishes. May the process be as minimally painful for all involved as it can possibly be.
:pray::pray:

[chuck2pastor]

For years I have struggled with self acceptance and self-love and a poor self image. There are many reasons for this struggle, parents, older brother, school friends who were always smarter than I was, but when I realized that I was gay and that the Bible called homosexuals an abomination-- then I really doubted that God loved me. I have struggled with this feeling for a long time, even as I have preached that God loves everyone, it was often God loves everyone but me. I am glad to say that now I know that God loves even me, and I am grateful for Mel White's sermon How Can I be Sure God Love Me too. His message touched me deeply. I am so glad to be a part of this forum, that Soulforce is here for people like me.

[Zerbie]

(((((((((( Chuck )))))))))))
:):love::):love::):love::):love::):love:

So glad you made it here.
:love::dove:

[daniel Ray]

Hi , I'm sure you know lots of scripture so this is just a reminder.

Jesus said. "Peace i leave with you, my peace i give unto you: not as the world giveth, give i unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." John 14: 27

You are not alone.

[chuck2pastor]

I am planning to talk to my wife about my being gay and how that impacts our future relationship. I have outlined what I am going to say to her so that I am taking full responsibility and not blaming her in any way, and I plan to tell her explicitly that it's not her fault that I'm gay. She already knows I am attracted to men, but I had told her I was bisexual -- because I thought, somehow that was less of a blow to her than to think of me as exclusively gay. In my situation, I don't see how I can remain married to her. It's hard for me to admit that to myself, to write it in this forum and it will be even harder to tell my wife. But I cannot put this off much longer.

[paul]

I am planning to talk to my wife about my being gay and how that impacts our future relationship. I have outlined what I am going to say to her so that I am taking full responsibility and not blaming her in any way, and I plan to tell her explicitly that it's not her fault that I'm gay. She already knows I am attracted to men, but I had told her I was bisexual -- because I thought, somehow that was less of a blow to her than to think of me as exclusively gay. In my situation, I don't see how I can remain married to her. It's hard for me to admit that to myself, to write it in this forum and it will be even harder to tell my wife. But I cannot put this off much longer.

Ah Chuck,

I am sorry. I know what you contemplate is scary, and that's sad. It is sad that being honest should be reason for fear. I understand, I have been there. I am paying for my honesty still (we come from similar situations). If I had to do it over again, I would still be honest. The cost of living a lie is much higher than the cost of honesty.

my best to you.
paul

[chuck2pastor]

Through our ups and downs, my wife has stayed with me because of our kids, and I think that she will not out me professionally for fear of losing the income needed to take care of them.

If she does out me professionally, I don't know what I will do. I have never had any other full time job, and my background with a major in psychology doesn't go too far -- counseling really requires at least a master's and preferably a Ph.D. There's a hiring freeze in my state right now so I couldn't find work there (which is what I had thought I might do if it came to this.) I will see where the Lord leads me. I will let you know when I plan to tell her, but it won't be in the next two weeks.

I have to plan out what to say to my kids and get feedback about that before I continue.

Just keep me in your prayers.

Chuck

[scott snedeker]

"Fear not"

Hmmmm who said that?

Don't let fear keep you from making the changes. I feel that you are growing out of the abused martyr stage similar to What I did. The Future has its challenges and its rewards. Looking back and especially going backward wont go on long even if you do. The stream of time pushes you forward without stopping. You are growing spiritually. You may even find yourself doing something completely different, Like waiting tables, and loving the novelty of a completely different way of making a living, of making friends with people who like you because you are gay from the start!

You might at a moment realize: How can I ever go back! I can't fit all that I am back into that tiny dark eggshell! I'm real! I'm alive! and I'm making it on my own terms!:cool:

[keltic63]

Through our ups and downs, my wife has stayed with me because of our kids, and I think that she will not out me professionally for fear of losing the income needed to take care of them.

If she does out me professionally, I don't know what I will do. I have never had any other full time job, and my background with a major in psychology doesn't go too far -- counseling really requires at least a master's and preferably a Ph.D. There's a hiring freeze in my state right now so I couldn't find work there (which is what I had thought I might do if it came to this.) I will see where the Lord leads me. I will let you know when I plan to tell her, but it won't be in the next two weeks.

I have to plan out what to say to my kids and get feedback about that before I continue.

Just keep me in your prayers.

Chuck

my ex did everything she could to out me, sometimes, I swear she was stopping strangers on the street to tell them :lol: it backfired. she ended up looking pretty bad. as scotty preaches here, don't let fear hold you back. what happens will happen, and you WILL be able to handle it as it comes.

[Zerbie]

Hmmmm, am I being a naysayer here?

I would suggest to Chuck (and am suggesting it!) that you have at the very least *some*thing in mind to turn to in the event that, despite your expectation, perhaps your wife *does* out you at work.

Did you not earlier in the thread mention that you thought some of her behavior was abusive? (If I'm confusing you with another poster please forgive the error!!:pray:) If so, it might not be outside the realm of possibility for her to take an action in order to be controlling, shaming, or punitive. Statistics show that men who take steps to dissolve or leave relationships with abusive women are most likely to be targeted for punitive or vengeful actions during the time of leaving.

She *might* mayyyyybe take action against you in anger --- I'm not trying to judge your wife's character, I have no idea who either of you are and could not begin to do so. But from hearing what I've heard from you (if I haven't confused you with someone else), I do think you'd be wise to have something in the works as a professional 'safety' plan just in case the worst happens.

Then, once you have a safety plan sketched out, go and do as Scotty says and be fearless. :) :D ;) Like packing a first aid kit for a long hiking trip, have your safety sketched out in case you need it, then forget about it and concentrate on the adventure ahead. :D

Balance.

[chuck2pastor]

I'm not a Calvinist :) (and I don't want to discuss all the issues that pertain to that) but I agree with U-dog's post and I don't see what it is about his post that is Calvinist. Am I missing something?

[chuck2pastor]

I don't think I'm being inauthentic because I choose not to share with my congregation and denominational leaders things which are really none of their business. There is a huge difference between being inauthentic and choosing carefully those to whom I share the most intimate details of my life. Many other pastors have been and are in the same position I'm in. I preach the Word every Sunday morning. I visit the sick and shut-in. I baptize infants and adults, officiate at funerals and weddings. I walk with people on their journey with Christ. The church I serve reaches out to the community in tangible ways, by providing a soup kitchen, a food pantry and financial assistance to those who need help paying their rent or electric bill or... None of these persons needs to know that I'm gay, and my coming out to them would do more harm to them than it would ever help me. Since most of the leadership of the church are homophobic, they would most likely leave the church rather than work with a gay pastor. I might change my mind one day, but for now, I choose to remain closeted at my church, even as I come out to a select group of friends.

[Zerbie]

I don't think I'm being inauthentic because I choose not to share with my congregation and denominational leaders things which are really none of their business. There is a huge difference between being inauthentic and choosing carefully those to whom I share the most intimate details of my life. .

I agree with Chuck. Authenticity does not require divulging personal information (however politically laden it might be) to anyone and everyone.

[andrewlittle]

Well you can be authentic and get defrocked or you can be inauthentic and keep your ministry. Either way you pay a price. Ain't Methodism fun.

The struggle in life is to live as authentically as possible. It is a universal struggle, and one that most only manage to some degree.

To what is each of called to be authentic? For a GLBT person it may be that they are called to be authentic to the way in which God made them. For a minister it may be to be authentic to the call of God on their lives. It's an easy decision, really - at least, until we consider that people are not one dimensional caricatures. Nor are we two dimensional - in this case, the dichotomous choice between being authentically gay or authentically a pastor. All of us have competing aspects and priorities to which we must be authentic - and there are a hell of a lot of them.

This exchange seems to be about two different choices being made.
One way of looking at it is:
Someone made the choice to forgo ministry to be authentically gay.
Another made the choice to pursue inauthentic ministry at the expense of being authentically gay.
The other way is:
Someone made a choice to forgo authentic ministry to live as an out gay man.
Another made the choice to engage in authentic ministry at the expense of being closeted.

Neither one is a great option but, either way you look at it, the person involved made the decision to that suited who they are, where they are and what they feel called to. Both decisions come with positive aspects, and both come with negative in abundance.

The danger is that we could try to gloss over the negative price of our own decision by being self-righteous and claiming that ours is the right choice that everyone should have made. This, of course, would be self-indulgent as well as self-righteous.

The overarching problem is not that different people have made different choices, but that people have to make choices in the first place. The problem is a system in which being fully authentic is not possible. Another problem is that people who make choices might denigrate those who make different choices. When this happens, the system wins.

Personally, I find this talk about what is authentic and what isn't to be troubling. It sounds very self-righteous, self-indulgent and divisive. It also does nothing to help the person who came here looking for community and help during a difficult time in their lives.

[Zerbie]

The overarching problem is not that different people have made different choices, but that people have to make choices in the first place. The problem is a system in which being fully authentic is not possible. Another problem is that people who make choices might denigrate those who make different choices. When this happens, the system wins.

Personally, I find this talk about what is authentic and what isn't to be troubling. It sounds very self-righteous, self-indulgent and divisive. It also does nothing to help the person who came here looking for community and help during a difficult time in their lives.

RE the part in bold: BRILLIANT! Andy, this is incredibly insightful and it gets to the core of some conflicts we as a group run across from time to time - conflicts which really can raise some tension among us.:( I think it's correct that the flawed 'system' wins when this happens to us. We lose solidarity when that happens to us.

Andy - I vote for you making that paragraph your new signature quote. I would love to see this quoted every day. If you don't make it a signature, well, perhaps I will. :p But I don't wanna ditch the Rumi, either.

Regarding your last paragraph, that is what bothered me too. I would prefer that we be here as a supportive resource and group of friends to one another, including respect for an individual's personal choice to remain 'closeted.' That is more important (at least, it is to me) than philosophies and ideologies, even important ones. The point is to serve the human being. :pray:

The danger with an ideology is when we find one that serves us, we think we've found that which will serve everyone else, and we mistake it, in a way almost as a panacea or universal rule, when in fact it was only the best of several options for us, individually. Another individual's best option may be one that was not good for us.

Regarding our disagreement with Antony, whom I love, I also think it's really clear that Antony speaks the way he does out of a desire to preserve and protect others from pain and great emotional cost, and to help make that flawed system obsolete. But Antony: I agree with Chuck & Andy that there is no one always 'correct' option. As Andy points out, either 'choice' is one not made in freedom but made under duress. If we miss this point, the 'system' that constrained our choices remains intact.

[chuck2pastor]

I have heard the above quoted many times. Although I have never preached on any GLBT issues (either pro or con), I have joined a group in my AC which advocates for the full inclusion of the GLBT community in the life of the church, including ordination. So I'm not exactly silent, even though the average person thinks of me as a straight friend of the gay community.

As I struggle with coming out to my family, I don't have the emotional wherewithal to deal with coming out professionally. I understand that my wife may indeed out me to my religious community and that I may well have to switch jobs rather quickly, but I need to move ahead without having all the answers in place. I pray that I am following God's leading and not simply my own desires. If I am doing God's will, then God will indeed lead me to whatever work God has for me.

Peace,
Chuck

[scott snedeker]

Chuck, I think you are doing great. You are overcoming your fear of the repercussions of being known as a Gay being. I think it is okay to come out in a piece at a time, to ease your fear a portion at a Time.

The worst fears are phobias like arachnophobia for instance. If you were to drop a tarantula on the head of someone with arachnophobia, you would traumatize that person. But if you gradually desensitized them by starting with a tiny spider across the room and each day got a little closer, eventually the person could be holding a tarantula and petting her.

You have had amazing success so far. You are pecisely where you are supposed to be right now. It's perfectly sucessful to venture only so far from your comfort zone and hold for a while until you are ready to venture further

[antonyh]

As I struggle with coming out to my family, I don't have the emotional wherewithal to deal with coming out professionally. I understand that my wife may indeed out me to my religious community and that I may well have to switch jobs rather quickly, but I need to move ahead without having all the answers in place. I pray that I am following God's leading and not simply my own desires. If I am doing God's will, then God will indeed lead me to whatever work God has for me.

Peace,
Chuck

I really admire you. You're doing amazing work and you have my prayers and support.

Love,
Antony

[Daniel]

Chuck- there is a lot said for doing one thing at a time. For most people the 'personal' part comes first, then the 'professional'. And seeing that no one is handing out prizes at the end of the day, how you go about the matter is as individual as the person or person's involved. There aren't any rules to follow- except- perhaps one. And that is to be yourself.

As others have said: I think you are doing great.

[TigerXero]

I just got done talkikng to my wife. She is still angry and hurt and told me in an accusing tone that I'm not going to do anything about it. I couldn't say anything to her because I know that I'm not going to try to move from my current appointment.

I just wanted to say that she was potentially in denial at the situation, hence her comments of disbelief in you actually doing anything.

I also have no idea how out of place this comment is (as I haven't read what currently being posted before my post), so I just wanted to apologize if I interrupt anything.

[TigerXero]

Hearing that you made an outline for what to go over with your wife, I'm wondering how that conversation went if it has already happened, but I also thought that when you said you wouldn't 'blame' her for anything, I think you still need to make the point that she has INDEED contributed to what is happening by her constant barrage of verbal and psychological abuse, regardless of if she was aware of it or not. (This is something which should have been talked about, though.) Anyway... I'm only 19, but that's would have been a red flag for me. I realize it wasn't exactly practical for you to discuss such things in your relationship, though, as well, and I'm truly sorry for that. I just hope you're managing and doing well, that your daughters will either when you talk to them or later in the future come to understand and continue to love you unconditionally, and that your life before you will be a much more liberating and happy one where you are not suffering as you are now.

[tymejumper]

I have been ok today, thanks. I feel that this is indeed a safe place for me to express myself. I'm glad, surprised, but glad to know that straight people are here as well.

I have known since I was 14 that I was attracted to guys, but I thought I would one day begin to be attracted to women. It didn't happen. Sometimes I wish I had never been married, but then I would never have had my daughters either. One of my friends is someone who wanted to become a pastor but didn't because he was gay and therefore not allowed to be ordained. I, on the other hand, said to heck with their rules and got ordained anyway.

Peace,
Chuck

Welcome! You are not the only one who is gay and married with children. I came out about 5 years ago, while I was married to a man. My ex-husband was a TG man and not out, he knew that I was attracted to women when we married. I kept hoping that the urge would pass, that it was just a stage. I rushed to get married and have children. I had my daughter at 21 and around 24 I relized that 'feeling' was not going away. I accepted that I was gay around then. I was a good and faithful wife, oh how it about killed me. It killed me a bit more every day. I was so afraid and so terified that others would find out and I had a child by then, so in for a penny in for a pound right? I hid from myself for a few more years, having 2 more wonderful children. Sex was not always terrible, it felt good at times, but was not fufilling at all, just 'sex'. I finally had to approach my ex about me not being happy any longer.

I thought as a gay man, he would understand and be supportive. He used my being gay to try to force me to stay. He threatened me with taking custody of the kids away form me because even though we were both gay, I was out and he was not, so I could not prove that he was, but he could prove I was. He also outed me to all the neighbors and our friends, some of whom I was choosing not to be out to.

That was about 3 years ago. Since then, I have custody of my children. The courts know I am a lesbian mother. I have met the woman of my dreams and will be married to her in August, and I am fufiled and happier than I thought I could ever be.

Many of us have been where you are now. It is one of the most frightening things you will go through. Hang in there and you will be ok. Be true to yourself and you will find the strength to be you. Feel free to post for support and we will do our best to help.

Have you ever thought about trying to start a gay inclusive church/ministry? Maybe you could start small and get a following? I don't know how that works, but maybe God is telling you to preach to LGBT and break away from the mainstream. :pray:

Much Metta,
Rebekah

[tymejumper]

It touched something in my memory about the way my (now ex) wife behaved in our relationship. It was only after I left the marriage that a counselor helped me see that regardless of my orientation, I was in a bad marriage.


That is exactly what happened to me. I held onto the fact we had kids, and I owed him for giving me those children, that i let him abuse the heck out of me. He tried to use my orientation in court and take my kids away. He threatenend to tell everyone, which he did so staying did not help that. He was an alcoholic and abusive, grabbing me after he drank and blaming it on the alcohol. He sold drugs(lovely info to find out about after you file!)He neglected the kids. On and on. Chuck, she sounds like an emotional abuser. They use words to hurt and control you. Try looking online for 'emotional abuser support groups" they do have them, I wa a member of one for awhile.

[keltic63]

That is exactly what happened to me. I held onto the fact we had kids, and I owed him for giving me those children, that i let him abuse the heck out of me. He tried to use my orientation in court and take my kids away. He threatenend to tell everyone, which he did so staying did not help that. He was an alcoholic and abusive, grabbing me after he drank and blaming it on the alcohol. He sold drugs(lovely info to find out about after you file!)He neglected the kids. On and on. Chuck, she sounds like an emotional abuser. They use words to hurt and control you. Try looking online for 'emotional abuser support groups" they do have them, I wa a member of one for awhile.

I just had a very frank conversation with my daughter, who is now 20. She was talking about the impending death of her grandfather ( my ex FIL is in bad shape ) and my daughter mentioned how her mother is handling it: emotionless. When I said that the whole family tends to be that way, my daughter said "Thank you! I just said that to my therapist. So you think that too? good, I'm not crazy" and she continued with comments about the way my ex treated me while we were married. You know, it was nice to have that recognition from my daughter, and it sparked even more conversation about expressing emotions, letting others know that you love them, and how it all comes back to you in good ways.

[paul]

I have heard the above quoted many times. Although I have never preached on any GLBT issues (either pro or con), I have joined a group in my AC which advocates for the full inclusion of the GLBT community in the life of the church, including ordination. So I'm not exactly silent, even though the average person thinks of me as a straight friend of the gay community.

As I struggle with coming out to my family, I don't have the emotional wherewithal to deal with coming out professionally. I understand that my wife may indeed out me to my religious community and that I may well have to switch jobs rather quickly, but I need to move ahead without having all the answers in place. I pray that I am following God's leading and not simply my own desires. If I am doing God's will, then God will indeed lead me to whatever work God has for me.

Peace,
Chuck

First of all, I want to ditto what Andy said above, and Zerbie's response. Both were so eloquent that I should probably just agree and shut up.

The title to this thread is what got me Chuck. Yeah, I have heard that one too, it's almost cliche.' It is equally logical to say in some instances that speech=death, no? For instance, part of your struggle is that for you to speak out about being gay in your church would mean the "death" of your ministry as you know it. No one has the right to choose how you live or die, except Chuck.

I have known I am gay from an early age, but fought it like crazy (and 'failed') up until about two years ago. I went to bible school, wanted to be in ministry, but always felt unqualified unless I got tgt under control :lol:, sigh. And here I am. I was asked to pastor a church where I did a lot of teaching once, and turned it down for the same reasons. I already felt conflicted just by teaching there, because I knew if they knew, the jig would be up. When I did come out, all of my fears were realized.

I believe your life is a journey only you can make, but it is a journey, not a destination. There are no rules to follow as regards your coming out when and how and to whom. Those decisions are uniquely yours. :love:

[chuck2pastor]

I just had a very frank conversation with my daughter, who is now 20. She was talking about the impending death of her grandfather ( my ex FIL is in bad shape ) and my daughter mentioned how her mother is handling it: emotionless. When I said that the whole family tends to be that way, my daughter said "Thank you! I just said that to my therapist. So you think that too? good, I'm not crazy" and she continued with comments about the way my ex treated me while we were married. You know, it was nice to have that recognition from my daughter, and it sparked even more conversation about expressing emotions, letting others know that you love them, and how it all comes back to you in good ways.

Thanks for sharing that.
While I made no effort to hide my tears when my mother died, I was reluctant to let my wife see me cry when my dad died. She had thought that I should no longer be grieving for my mom after about 3 months! I have kept many of my emotions bottled up, and many of my reactions to my wife's teasing have gone unexpressed, because, after all it was "just teasing." "Can't you take a joke?" was the way my wife put it on several occasions. So I just hurt on the inside, never letting my pain show. Sometimes, I cry alone, but I can't even bring myself to cry in front of my therapist, where I know it's safe, and I know he would understand. My marriage is dissolving, but I don't cry; I do, however, feel the pain of it, even though I know it's what I need to have happen.

[Daniel]

Thanks for sharing that.
While I made no effort to hide my tears when my mother died, I was reluctant to let my wife see me cry when my dad died. She had thought that I should no longer be grieving for my mom after about 3 months! I have kept many of my emotions bottled up, and many of my reactions to my wife's teasing have gone unexpressed, because, after all it was "just teasing." "Can't you take a joke?" was the way my wife put it on several occasions. So I just hurt on the inside, never letting my pain show. Sometimes, I cry alone, but I can't even bring myself to cry in front of my therapist, where I know it's safe, and I know he would understand. My marriage is dissolving, but I don't cry; I do, however, feel the pain of it, even though I know it's what I need to have happen.

I cry. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart Chuck. If you need to cry- and you clearly do, learning/letting to let yourself cry will be a HUGE step in owning your feelings- and getting on with things.

Even in relationship with my husband of long years- there have been times when I have been frustrated about something and let it fester and fester- and then- eventually- I cry: and everything changes after that. That's been my experience.

You said you couldn't yet let yourself express this emotion with your therapist- in that safe place. That may be the very place to let yourself go. Having another person 'hold' and 'honor' your very Self is so so so important.

And I bet- if you can find a man who will hold you when you cry (no sex involved!), so much the better. Having my guy be there for me when I fall apart is very healing. All those crazy fearful thought in my head get some perspective.

Know what they say in the East?

Tears are the beginning of wisdom.

[Zerbie]

Oh dear. Chuck, I'm willing to share openly that my reaction when you said your wife told you 3 months is too long to grieve for your deceased parent was: 'How dare she?' :mad: She does not get to, as U-dog said, 'set the kitchen timer' on your feelings. For that, she has no right.

Regards the 'teasing.' "Teasing" at a spouse's/partner's expense is commonly acknowledged as a form of verbal abuse. It can be a way of cutting someone's feelings and devaluing, belittling the person, disguised as a "joke," in which case, stating displeasure with the "joke" is then labeled as another form of character flaw on the part of the person being abused, "can't take a joke." If you look at some lists of emotionally abusive behavior types, you will find many of them have just this sort of behavior listed.

RE: crying. Crying, weeping, sobbing, is the body's way of beginning to process overwhelming grief, sorrow, pain, etc. That is why when we sob, we move from deep down in our lungs and gut - we are releasing not only from the mind, but from the body as well. It is a necessary healing gesture. If you need to let some stuff go, find or create a safe place in which to do so. Perhaps at home alone in a quiet corner, maybe even light a candle and play soothing music to help you to self-soothe later. Maybe, if you feel safe with your therapist, you can explore allowing the emotion to move when you're there with him.

This may be off your beaten path, but another idea I have for you, is that perhaps you might be in the 'right' kind of place to start a healing process that is physically based, such as yoga. Or bioenergetic release of some kind. Even dance can be very conducive to freeing pent up emotions. Your body is being affected by your emotions, and it is likely carrying a lot of heavy ones for you at this time. I tend to yoga, because linking deep mindful breaths with physical movement can facilitate a letting go of heavy emotions so that we are less burdened by them. This is one of my personal favorites, and it is great for beginners.

http://www.forrestyogastore.com/Ana-Forrest-Yoga-cp/SSESDVD/MEDIA/Strength+%26+Spirit+plus+Embodying+Spirit+DVD

[tymejumper]

Oh dear. Chuck, I'm willing to share openly that my reaction when you said your wife told you 3 months is too long to grieve for your deceased parent


It takes up to 1 full year to complete the grief cycle. You have to move through pain and anger and abandonment issues.

To mock and laugh at a person for their pain is not only abuse, but it is immensely sad. I would wonder if your wife has boarderline personality disorder or narcisstic personality disorder from the things you are saying. She really would benefit from therapy herself. Never the less, obviously this relationship is not good nor affirming for you and you would do yourself a favor by getting out.

[chuck2pastor]

I am planning to come out to my wife and daughters in the near future, meaning before school is out, most likely early May. The idea scares me, but I know I will be better off in the long run if I do so sooner rather than later. I have to put some thought into what I might pursue as a career if my wife does what I have thought she'd never do by going to my DS and telling him. But I can't keep up the facade of a happy marriage anymore. Please, keep praying, and give me any words of wisdom you might have. (I'll decide for myself how wise they are for me.)

[keltic63]

Chuck,

YOU know your situation best. You seem to be in a good place concerning how and when and what you think could happen. You've got some idea that it won't go smoothly, and you've got alternative plans in mind. All of this is good. I think what we can offer you is our own experience, our support, and our love for you as you take these steps.

[Zerbie]

Best wishes, and may it go smoothly after all! :pray:

I am glad you are preparing for the possibility of some unpleasant stuff while this is new news, and I hope that things go better than that after all.

Take care of yourself, be as caring and kind to others as possible, but look out for your own needs and safety, and do what you must. Be well. Best wishes!
:pray:

[antiochian]

A belated welcome to you! I can't advise as I've never been married and don't know what that's all about. I can tell you that coming out to family members is hard and rewarding at the same time. Best wishes, and may God soften the hearts of your family to hear what you have to say.

[glenze]

Hi Chuck

Just to say that the hardest person to come out to is yourself. You've already done that so you've already done the hardest part. Good luck and I hope things get better for you,

love, Glen

[Pablo Rafael]

Chuck,

I will keep you in my prayers. For me there have been two big hurdles to face in the coming out process. First was telling mom, who is the only close family I have. Second is coming out at work.

I guess I am fortunate that I don't have a wife and kids to deal with. My mom has not been supportive, but has been loving. I wish I had her support, but it has been hard for her as well. It takes a lot of courage to be authentic. You seem to have that courage.

My mom has been the one who has been pretty insistient that I remain in the closet. Rather than outing me at work, she is the one who has tried to get me to remain quiet. She doesn't understand what I want to accomplish by coming out.

I don't understand the mentality in the church. I know that people in the church already think I'm gay. There have been obvious comments. It seems OK for people to have a gay church worker; just not an openly gay church worker. That whole situation puzzles me. But I digress.

I also have fears for my career. I am figuring that my days as a Christian school teacher are coming to an end. It really is something that I need to do. I have to be myself. The coming out day is May 22, the end of school.

Here I am talking about ME paragraph after paragraph. (I am really not that self absorbed.) Though our situations are different, there are some similarities. Sometimes it helps to know that others are facing similar situations at the same time. I wish you God's blessings. He has everything in His hands.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[glenze]

Hi Pablo

Your story about how it's okay with people if everybody thinks you're gay just as long as you don't admit it, is pretty much the way a lot of Portuguese society behaves. I have two friends who are a couple, have been together for ages but still maintain the fiction that they're just friends for their respective families, even to the extent of having three sperate photo albums when they go on holiday - one for each of their families with only photos of one of them and a photo album for their gay friends showing them together. One of the fathers actually works as a hairdresser (not a barber - so he must know some gay people) but he still doesn't officially know. But of course both families do - it's just never acknowledged or talked about - it's all so dishonest.
Luckily my and José's family are not like that - my father and my brother came to our civil union ceremony - they were the witnesses - and afterwards my father said it was such a great shame my mother wasn't there (she died 4 years ago) but that she would have been proud and very happy. And on our return to Portugal when we told José's aunt (who is 89) she told me "Now you must always call me Aunt Edith as I have a new nephew!"
Like you I am a teacher. The organisation I work for has a strict anti-discrimination policy and all the gay people at work are out and proud. I'm not out to my students - but I don't lie either. If one were to ever ask me, I'd answer truthfully. I don't know what it's like to work in a situation where you have to hide who you are - it must be very difficult. I hope everything goes well for you - I'll say a prayer
all the best
Glen

[chuck2pastor]

In so many ways I am ready to come out to my wife and kids, but I am going to wait until I am more ready to deal with their reaction. I have a lot of work to do to prepare for that, especially in dealing with my own anger, which usually gets turned inward on myself.
Please keep praying for me.
Chuck

[Zerbie]

In so many ways I am ready to come out to my wife and kids, but I am going to wait until I am more ready to deal with their reaction. I have a lot of work to do to prepare for that, especially in dealing with my own anger, which usually gets turned inward on myself.
Please keep praying for me.
Chuck

(((( Chuck ))))
:love:

We care about you. Thanks for the update. Let us know if we can support you, be there to listen, etc.

[chuck2pastor]

It has been about a month since my last post because I have no real progress to report. I haven't had the conversation with my wife and kids that I need to have. This past weekend confirmed that I cannot stay with my wife, but I couldn't talk to her about that because of other issues we were confronting with our children.
I am sooooo frustrated with myself.
Chuck

[Zerbie]

I cannot recall if you are currently seeing a counselor. If not, why not seek one out and with his/her experienced guidance, set about creating an outline of issues that matter most and most need to be addressed in this relationship. Then s/he can guide you into what actions might be most appropriate towards getting your needs met.

Maybe frustration is not the best way to view things? Maybe your caution is warranted and you are doing all the right things? However, if you really are frustrated, then let that determine for you what you must do next. Set about deciding on a timeframe, and do that next right thing.

Best wishes for you and your family at this tough time. :(:pray::pray::pray:

[scott snedeker]

You are doing your best right now. Take heart in that. So you haven't moved forward in a while. Maybe the rhythm of your movement calls for this rest before the next measure?

You will overcome fear when you are calm and sure of yourself. Then you will be ready to move.

Or if when standing still is intolerable and you come to a point of misery where you have nothing to lose, moving forward will be the path of least resistance.

Either way, it will happen.

[tdogg]

It has been about a month since my last post because I have no real progress to report. I haven't had the conversation with my wife and kids that I need to have. This past weekend confirmed that I cannot stay with my wife, but I couldn't talk to her about that because of other issues we were confronting with our children.
I am sooooo frustrated with myself.
Chuck

You have to do this in your own time, Chuck. Just continue to pray on it. There will always be distractions and situations that lead you to delay. But when you are truly ready, God will give you the strength to do what you need to do no matter what else is going on. Know you have friends here who care very much and will support you in whatever it is you need to do. :love::pray:

[keltic63]

bumping in hopes of an update

[Jennifer5]

My name is Chuck and I've been a United Methodist pastor for 25 years. I'm married with two wonderful daughters. I'm scared out of my mind to be writing on this forum, but I have been struggling for so long, that I need to get this out. I am gay, and I am glad to say that I do have some close friends that I am out to; I'd like to be more open, but the consequences of that are too much for me to handle -- right now. In my area, there is a group called Grace for All which is working for the full inclusion of GLBT persons in the life of the church; while the members are mostly UM, the group is ecumenical in nature.

Right now, I feel like I'm going off the deep end. I just pray this isn't the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and somehow I believe that just the opposite is going to prove to be the case.

Peace,
Chuck

Welcome Chuck, we're all very glad to have you here!! :love: