International House of Prayer/Cult? Help [Archive]

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abfaboy2000

02-27-2008, 11:46 AM

HarmlessEccentric

02-27-2008, 04:45 PM

It's okay to tell him that lots of Christians think that God makes people gay because he likes them that way, and to direct him to the web sites about other ways to interpret those passages of the Bible (there's a good one right here at Soulfource, iirc). I would leave out the 'your church is a cult' part, because it's not likely to be well received; he may well get there on his own.

It took me a long time before I was able to let go of my self-hatred, planted by an extremely fundamentalist church group. But if you plant a seed of love and acceptance, it may grow in ways you don't see right away.

Gregory_de_Bois

02-27-2008, 04:56 PM

A few things:

A resounding yes to your first two questions, do not leave this issue alone. He is your friend, so take care of him.

What church is he going to that is so "cultish"? It would help to know, so that he might receive more help.

Just love him and be there for him. Pray for him and help him through these tough times, as you said he was experiencing a lot of turmoil. And definitely introduce him to some welcoming pastors (maybe some that are more along the lines of what his church is, but more accepting).

abfaboy2000

02-27-2008, 10:02 PM

Thanks for your feedback/comments. He goes to this church in Kansas City called IHOP (International House of Prayer) lead by Mike Bickle who claims to be a prophet, I was kind of shocked to see some of his books on here since he also writes books about how God can turn you straight. If you google his name and cult together, alot of stuff comes up.
But you are right, I do need to show love and support during this time....and lots of prayer.

Zerbie

02-28-2008, 09:43 AM

Ya gotta be kidding? The church is named after a cheap chain restaurant??
:confused:

abfaboy2000

02-28-2008, 12:51 PM

it's for real. 24/7 prayer and fasting.

abfaboy2000

02-28-2008, 12:55 PM

Here is a link to a forum that has more info and other links that lead to other links about how crazy this place it. Hello! WACO!

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/33880.html?1200451216

EvangelistCori

07-29-2008, 06:22 AM

Nyshana

07-29-2008, 11:49 AM

I know nothing, no church or person, is perfect... but I'm not sure whether I believe that IHOP can be as fantastic as you claim if it still harbours hatred of homosexuals.
Either way, that's rather beside the point.

abfaboy, there's excellent advice in this thread - and I'll add to it that one of the most important things you can do is make sure that he knows he can talk to you; so that he will, at some point, look to you for an escape from what he's experiencing - because you can give it to him.

You're both in my prayers *hug*
Emma

Rick336

07-29-2008, 01:18 PM

I regularly participate in the international house of prayer through the internet. I just chew the meat and spit out the bones. I love their passion for Jesus and His kingdom. I would love to see an international house of prayer in my city and every city. We need not be afraid of getting radical for God. I recently went to the Lakeland Florida meetings back in May. I was dramatically touched. I have returned to Lexington, Ky with a renewed passion for the lost and love for Christ. I have led 2 people to the Lord since I have returned. Rainbow nation there is a place for us in the revival that is sweeping the earth. If any of you are ever near Lexington, KY please call me or e-mail me that you are coming. I would love to fellowship with you. We meet as a church in my home on Sundays at 11am. Paul the Apostle was for the duration of his ministry considered by some to be a heretic becuase he preached that gentiles did not need to follw the law to be saved. Take courage that others have walked in the steps we are presently walking in. Make sure that the suffering we are enduring is becuase of our belief that God is radically in love with us and for us and wants to use us to lead many to Him. Make it about that and God will have our back.
Friendship, Loyalty and Love in Christ]

Cori Wood

Wow. This could have been me back in 1972. This sounds exactly like something I might have said after I attended a fundamentalist Christian youth rally thirty-six years ago in Dallas, Texas called Explo '72.

For a week in June 1972 tens of thousands of us young Americans converged on Dallas to attend workshops and classes on how to bring others to the love of Christ. Our goal was to witness to every single citizen in the United States by 1975 and to everyone in the world by 1980. Throughout the Dallas and Ft. Worth metro area we practiced our door to door witnessing for the Lord. I still remember my rehearsed lines, "Did you know that God has a plan for your life?"

Each night we'd all gather in the Cotton Bowl for soul-stirring rallies for the glory of God. It was a very moving experience. Imagine the emotional high of seeing eighty-thousand lit candles piercing the dark or hearing eighty-thousand voices all shouting "Praise the Lord!"

We were young and searching for answers to life questions; "Why are we here? What's our purpose? What's the meaning of life?" This rally showed us that Jesus was the answer.

At the time, it made perfect sense. But as we got older, some of us realized that scripture presented more questions than it answered. The Bible was confusing and full of contradictions and unanswered questions. Hours of prayer brought no relief.

Eventually many began to lose interest. Of the four of us guys who went to Explo '72, only one remains a Christian today. The eighty-thousand of us enthusiastic young people of 1972 never met our goal of witnessing to the world.

Young people searching for answers are vulnerable to these high energetic Christian rallies. It seems to fill a void in their lives. But for many, the fantasy eventually wears off and they're faced with the challenges of the real world.

Rick

fullofgrace555@yahoo.com

12-06-2008, 03:38 AM

please tell me, what does the bible say about homosexuality..

BruceChris

12-06-2008, 12:30 PM

At the top of the page. You may of course ask any church leader, but if their answers show anger and judgement, ask yourself if their behavior reflects the love that Jesus taught us. If their behavior reflects anger and judgement, they are probably coming from feelings of fear and hatred. By their fruits shall ye know them.

Next, please remember that there is no GLBT person that I have ever heard of who has ever said that this was a choice that they have made. Yet most conservative church leaders insist that it MUST be a choice, or it could not be a sin.

When the bible was written, very little was known about human sexuality, or how it developed before birth, in male and female. (When the bible was written, it was thought that the sun revolved around the Earth!) We now know that males and females, especially before birth, have far more in common than difference. Every organ, every tissue, and almost every hormone found in the male is found in the female, and vice versa, they're just a little different in size, shape, or position. And this is true after birth, as well as before The female body provides the pattern that both bodies are formed from. (Hey, us GUYS don't have any use for these breasts!)

Most gay people obey the law, pay their taxes, and often are found in relationships that last for years, often decades.

EDIT: Come back in our "Hello, my name is... introductory forum, and tell us something about yourself. Read what others have said, and you will meet loving, decent Christian people, gay and straight. I am editing this, as I can't say that some of them will be just like you, as you have not yet told us about yourself

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

Unmasked

12-06-2008, 08:30 PM

Ya gotta be kidding? The church is named after a cheap chain restaurant??
:confused:

Do you have something against pancakes Zerbie? IHOP is delicious. Especially at three in the morning when you're not quite lucid.

Jester25

12-08-2008, 05:26 PM

Only their burgers, chicken, and eggs are delicious, Unmasked. Sorry. :D

Petrese

12-14-2008, 05:43 AM

Unmasked, I have to totally agree, when I was younger there was no place better than IHOP after the bars close and I was trying to sober up enough so I could avoid the cops and drive myself back home LOL, maybe the church of the same name is.....nevamind

jaymeap

01-30-2009, 03:14 PM

i had to say something about this post.
i have been bi-sexual as far back as my first sexual experience.
next month i'll be married to the greatest man that ever lived. i never thought i could do that...
i met him at the international house of prayer in KC, MO. it was definitely a God thing how i ended up there. no doubt about that.
and NOT ONE PERSON said a word to me about my lifestyle (Drugs, drinking, smoking, sex, bi-sexuality, violence, hatred.)
it was like that place literally, and truly, opened me up for some deeper relationship with God than i've ever had. it was a PERSONAL & PRIVATE encounter with the Holy Spirit. i left there a completely different person - a happier, more joyful, peaceful, loving, forgiving person. maybe your friend had the same encounter. maybe it wasn't anyone's words or sermon, maybe he just came to that decision on his own! you would be supportive if a straight friend turned gay, why wouldn't you be supportive or willing to believe a gay friend turned straight on his own? maybe that place did something to his heart, maybe it wasn't the people. if it's GUILT OR SHAME he's feeling, that is NOT GOD. but the WORLD or the devil's tactics. Jesus forgives, and forgets. he sometimes, convicts people for things, but it never feels like guilt or shame. i assure you.
this is the friendliest, least judgemental Church or Christian Organization i have ever been involved in. honestly. they actually discourage "RELIGIOUS SPIRIT'S" which are people who are ritualistic, religious, about ways of life, ideals, behaviors, and actions towards others. it's supposed to be SPIRITUAL. not RELIGIOUS.
i actually believed in Jesus for a few months before that, but hated being called a Christian until i went there -- because of what i had seen other Christians do. that place is doing a lot that other churches aren't. like practicing what the Bible Teaches, in it's entirity, instead of picking & choosing what's convenient to Believe at any given time.
hating someone is murder. 1st John 3 v 15.
no one at the International House of Prayer hates anyone. i can assure you of that. i have never felt so much love or acceptance or grace or forgiveness. strangers, with children! let me live in their home without asking a single question- after knowing me for only a second. (i was homeless & hitch-hiked there.)i have heard them preach about how God can use ANYONE. everyone has a different testimony for that very reason. they do have opinions, and pray publicly for things they feel strongly about, and want God's help with. but PEOPLE - they do not condemn or treat differently. there is 24 hour music and prayer. and one of the singers that was there a couple of months ago - was a young man who regularly dressed as a woman. how is that condemnation? Mike Bickle doesn't claim to be anything but a servant of God.

the only reason people think IHOP is a cult, is because people cannot seem to fathom that God should come first, that their Creator deserves constant love and praise and affection and adoration. so many are used to Jesus only on Sunday Morning, and can't accept ihop's ways.
it's called IHOP because Jesus said "It is written, my House shall by called of all nations the house of prayer" mark 11v17. not after the pancake place.
there's free-will in everyone - so there is NO CONDEMNATION IN CHRIST. check Romans 8 v1. use that verse if anyone that says they love Jesus is trying to be mean to you. also remind them, that they can't clearly see to help you remove the splinter from your eye, when they have a LOG in their own.
by the way, i know first hand, that i experienced a TON more condemnation when i became a Christian, especially a member of IHOP -- than when i was addicted to drugs & having sex with everyone i met. more people seem to be okay with that lifestyle than the Spiritual one.
please keep in mind that you are not the only ones being condemned or judged or mis-treated or discriminated against. and try not to discriminate against those that are different from you.

Libre

01-30-2009, 09:45 PM

IHOP is an outgrowth of the Kansas City Prophets group. Revival is good, and Spirit-filled revival is wonderful. I highly recommend it. The larger the gathering, the easier to blend into the crowd and experience what God has without being noticed. Let God move in you and fill you. After all, who can deny water to those who have the Holy Spirit as do the rest? That was Peter's argument in Acts, I believe. Claim it.

One caution: don't get caught up in the prophetic, especially when it involves forecasting the future of nations, including Israel. Most of these ministries are Zionist and can get quite fanatical. Better to let God fill you and use you to minister to others, as the great commission directs. The true prophetic ministry to the body is to edify, encourage, and exhort. Rarely to correct and even more rarely to foretell the future.

Gena

01-09-2010, 10:37 PM

Dear website owner,

I got saved at IHOP and although I think there are a
lot of people who are genuinely seeking Jesus, they
are way unbalanced to a very dangerous point.

It did feel like a cult. I had hardly any discipleship
for being a new Christian and was allowed and encouraged
to stay up all night praying for months and to fast
excessively.

This church gave me such an extreme, warped, perception
of the how to "passionately" follow Jesus that I did not
even understand that Jesus loved me AT ALL my whole
2 years there (and I was even on IHOP staff!) I could quote the Bible
extremely well, but did not truly comprehend a word of it.

There was no effective church structure and NO
accountability or healthy relationships. Everyone
just prayed all the time. Hardly any members worked
real jobs or interacted a healthy amount with non-Christians
or the real world.

It scares me because my sister is still there.
She can never speak with sentences that begin with "I"
Like "I feel" or "I think". It is always "God is doing..."
"Jesus is...." She has no connection with who
God just wants her to be.

I was just like this, but way worse
for years. I almost died from my issues with fasting.

The beauty of Jesus and the simplicity of the gospel
is usurped by IHOP unbalanced desire for something
greater.

Of course it is okay to crave an encounter with
Jesus. Of course it is okay to want spiritual gifts.

But if you are soooooo horribly tunnel visioned
as they are....you really miss the whole point.

He is love and He is balanced and He created
the whole world not just a prayer closet with
leads to insanity.

My prayer is for their eyes to be opened. I have
only now (after joining a balanced,
family oriented foursquare church) started to realize
who Jesus is and what the gospel is saying.

Please post this and may others read this and
may someone be sent to release these
captives.

Libre

01-09-2010, 11:20 PM

Foursquare is a great choice. I do know of ihop, and if you are grounded Christian, they are fine. But newbies get lost in big churches often. Also, I agree that they are unbalanced in the prayer and fasting thing. I don't believe in fasting really, but I believe that when you pray, you shouldn't eat. Just common sense. Unless you know God has said to fast, but that is rare, I believe.

Sometimes the desire for revival becomes all consuming. I go to a church that has prayed for it for years. They are missing the point: we have the Holy Spirit in us and are not dead. He is as close as the end of your finger. We can't be more holy or pure in order to get God to move. We are the ones who need to move, step into the water, and let God touch us. Then we go out to the world, and are ready to make disciples.

I love the touch of God, but is frightens many. So I think that is why they pray and fast and never see revival. IMO.

Bless you, and may you continue to walk close to Jesus. And not let the fundies drive you too nuts.

Rick336

01-10-2010, 11:38 AM

that place is doing a lot that other churches aren't. like practicing what the Bible Teaches, in it's entirity, instead of picking & choosing what's convenient to Believe at any given time.

You seem like a nice person who is sincere. But I find it hard to believe that this church is practicing what the Bible says in its entirety. In other words, I doubt what you say is true.

This is from the New Testament:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (King James Version)

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

So I ask you. Do any of the women in this church talk? If they do talk, then they are not practicing what the Bible teaches in its entirety.They are indeed picking and choosing.

The fact is, all churches pick and chose the Bible verses that they like and ignore the ones they don't like. And I'm willing to bet that your church is no different.

Rick

NathanATX

01-10-2010, 07:11 PM

Good Afternoon Everyone!

To make a long story short, I met a really wonderful guy last December and everything was really good and then he went to a "onething" convention in Kansas City and came back a complete mess! He basically felt that God could no longer use him as a Christian if he remained to be gay and it totally broke my heart to hear someone that destroyed by religion/God.
I looked into this "church" and so many folks consider it a cult but he keeps going back to this place.
Should I forward him information about this "church" and information on what the bible REALLY says about homosexuality?

Should I find a pastor who can really discuss this issue with him?

Should I just leave it alone?

I am lost....

Well, that is a message that many churches have. The issue about whether IHOP is a cult or not is a different conversation.

I would just get really curious about why the message he's hearing is resonating with him so powerfully. What does he feel called to as a Christian? Just ask a lot of questions. Is he aware that there are tons of churches that will honor and affirm him as a gay Christian and the ministry he feels called to? You just want to get in his world so that you could really see what would have him doing what he's doing. Then when that's clear, you'll know what kind of conversation to have with him.

Affirm him like crazy. Let him know you love and care for him. Give him some feedback about what you've heard, but he's not going to be able to hear it until he's really clear you are on his side.

There is nothing wrong. He's gonna be ok whatever he does. Just be there standing for him.

Smith

07-14-2010, 07:25 PM

The very interesting part about IHOP is that after being there over a year as an openly gay man, I've never heard or felt that they do not accept/love homosexuals. As I attended one of there internships, multiple conferences, and IHOP in general for a period of time. The only aspect they ever encouraged was to seek God for myself, to seek the God of love and compassion, the God of justice and truth.

Honestly when I got there I myself went through a time period of trying to be straight but through their leadership, I dove into the word as I was encouraged, and came to a biblical understanding that God is a God that loves me as a Homosexual and does not condemn me in this. The reason so many go to places of seeking and resort back to "trying to be straight" is that no matter what a person is told the "church" has enforced in error for so long that homosexuality is an abominable sin, and this is taught at such a young age, that it creates an internal battle that until walked through with biblical context and prayer has no sure way of ever completely fleeting from ones life. But on the contrary I would contend that being in a place like IHOP where the encouragement is to seek God for who he is, and the depth of his love, is significantly beneficial to anyone in this place.

Regarding IHOP being a cult, its such a cliche to call something that someone has dedicate their life to a cult. Maybe its because actual life commitments are so rare the only way to explain it is it must be a cult. While I understand some feel that the fasting and extended prayer are cultish behaviors...they were completely voluntary and actually IHOP has a complete nutritional staff that monitors the diet of those that are fasting for their safety. While this label will never be removed I will say as a flamboyant gay man it is the largest growing period of me learning who I am and who the God that I serve is. I would recommend anyone with any desire to check them out, even more than what they say, their passion for Gods truth is outrageous and amazes me every time I have contact with IHOP current or former members.

Libre

07-14-2010, 07:40 PM

IHOP is a tough one. I am in a church that thinks highly of them and participates in one type of fast with them. I do not fast. I don't believe in it for the most part. But they are not really a cult - just over-zealous.

Continue your study of the scriptures. Use a Greek interlinear if you can, for you will learn a lot. I've found that much of the foundation of what such churches teach is a bit off. Not the foundation of believe in Jesus, but the other doctrines. Make good use of commentaries, but compare them, since they are very doctrinal.

And bless you. May you be filled with His Spirit and have joy unspeakable and full of glory!

Rick336

07-14-2010, 10:03 PM

I prefer the Waffle House because it's open 24/7.

Rick

Gennee

07-20-2010, 11:59 AM

Rick, Paul gave this command to the Corinthian church only because there was so much confusion and so many people coming from other forms of religion. This has been made a hard and fast rule and it is not what God has in mind.

This commnad was not given to any of the other churches formed by Paul. Phoebe was a minister and Paul commended her highly. Society was very patriarchal in Paul's time and it still is in many parts of the world. I have had a woman pastor in the past and women have spoken in the church. God has blessed people just the same. Some of the more memorable sermons I've heard were from women.

I have done some research and study on this subject. You have to look at the context this verse was given. The danger is that some made this a hard and fast rule (dogma) and it is not so.

Gennee

Zigster

09-01-2010, 04:16 PM

Hello My Name is Zigster. And I am here to bring proper definitions about certain subjects involving the International House Of Prayer. Now I am not here to judge but I am here to bring truth. So I ask that you please look @ this video's definition of a cult and line it up with what I.H.O.P. believes. Thank you and Jesus loves you.

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