The Gospel of Judas

[Daniel]

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/gospelofjudas/

Wow. Have you seen the news about the Gospel of Judas? Amazing stuff.

The implied nuances of this text are riveting. And it would seem, at first glance, that content and context is everything.

[Mia14]

Blows my mind...
---
It's scary to think that the Bible was compiled by men and there were so many more gospels that the greater public may never know of. I've heard of a gospel according to Mary and one according to Thomas. Who knows what really happened?

[cellardoor]

I read this article (http://protestantpub.com/2006/04/09/the-gospel-of-judas-a-transparent-fiction/) about it a few days ago. Be warned: Cynicism ahead. :o

[NonLemming]

Glad to hear that this manuscript has been found. The concept has been around for a long time....even in our short life-times. "The Last Temptation of Christ" dealt with this topic explicitly. Harvey Keitel and Willem Dafoe (Judas and Jesus) were in on the plan that only Judas had the courage to follow through with. Yes, some minds may blow open, but an open mind is a good thing. Judas got a bad rap.

[Daniel]

I read this article (http://protestantpub.com/2006/04/09/the-gospel-of-judas-a-transparent-fiction/) about it a few days ago. Be warned: Cynicism ahead. :o


Read the article you posted. The word specious comes to mnd. The writer uses what I call circular thinking, that is, he has a point of view and then ignores any evidence that contradicts it.

Some points:

The author insinuates that the document was copied (gasp!) which calls the name on it into question. Ok. Since when is any gospel that we have an original one? It was my recollection that all of the supposed canon are copies.

The author also asserts that, because we've know about it for a long time (from an adversarial source by the way) and that invalidates it as well. Gee. I didn't know that it had been translated before. (It hasn't.)

The author also posits that, because it can't conform to his view of early christianity- he has the 'right' view it seems, this invalidates it as well. Too bad he ignores the very words under his nose.

And so what that National Geographic brings this out before Easter? I don't see any harm in that. I think they call that marketing. Of course the author won't be doing that for his next- if ever- book. (OK- mea cupla- I've lapsed into cynicism.)

Now this isn't a defense of Gnosticism per se, but throwing out the tub before even stepping into the water is, well, stupid.

Circular Thinking Ahead. Danger Will Robinson!

[revtj]

http://cdn.digitalcity.com/rl_nationalgeographic/6judas320bh406.jpg


[photo of Judas & Jesus from Turkish Byzantine Ceiling Fresco]

After seeing this picture, (Is it just me or what? That Judas has got one sweet booty to show off, hmm?), I wondered if maybe Judas tried to break up Jesus & the Beloved Disciple and thus his betrayal was out of jealousy?

Heresy or Hairspray? You decide!

[Liberal Crozier]

Patristic theology was traditionally taught in Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox seminaries. The codification of the NT was NEVER intended to exclude those other works of the Fathers of the Church altogether. The undivided Church never foresaw a time when Word would supplant the Sacraments/Mysterion and not complement them.

This, and the addition of the Deuterocanonical Books of the OT, shows us that 72 as opposed to 66, Christianity is not a faith system that you can reduce to twenty-five words or less.

The contextual Biblical scholar who uses all the tools at his command, rather than the absolute "literalist" will, IMHO, save the Faith from derision or worse.

[Liberal Crozier]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Homophobia has made even platonic affection among friends of the same sex suspect of psychosexual behaviour if not orientation. I oppose this.

I have same and opposite sex friends whom I love, and despite being a gay man, would never entertain the possibility of conjugal affection, albeit adulterous, between them and me. Agape love is not only suggested, but commanded by Christ.

Jealousy even on this plane is possible, and anyone who enjoys " forensic psychological historical narratives" can indulge in many different scenarios.

I just wish to admonish one about inferring what we understand today as true same-sex coupling upon Christ, John or Judas.

[revtj]

I just wish to admonish one about inferring what we understand today as true same-sex coupling upon Christ, John or Judas.

Liberal Crozier, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. I do want to point out that my remarks were meant to be humorous.

How I see it (sans humor): The category of "gay" did not exist in Jesus' time as we know it today. The extent of the intimacy of Jesus' relationship with the Beloved Disciple is unknown and will remain unknown forever. I personally see Jesus as capable of same-sex love, but that's quite possibly something like the millions of westerners who see Jesus as a bisque-white male with blond hair & blue eyes: we see what we want (need?) to see when we imagine the Christ. Some people find sex so frightening they see Christ necessarily as a perpetual virgin.

I highly recommend you rent the movie Hairspray. I fear you've been immersed in academia too long. ;) :o

PS Is that Crozier as in Crozier Theological in Rochester? I very much want to do my doctorate there some day!!!!!

[tdogg]

My sense of humor is a bit strange, but wanted to say I found your remarks darn funny. I really really needed a laugh this morning. Thanks for that! :lol:

And I don't think it's too far off the mark to contemplate the possibility of jealousy playing a part in Judas' betrayal of Jesus - whether or not it is friendship, love or whatever.

[Liberal Crozier]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

My dear Revtj:

First of all, I am cured of trying to write anything just after Vigils. My senses, including humour, are still asleep. Is it possible to use the computer while completely asleep??:o :o :o

Yes, I own one....a crozier....that is, along with mitre, pectoral cross and ring....and served in a "second banana" capacity within a diocese. I earned my undergraduate and major theological degrees where there was much "ivy" on brick and stone structures.....and earned my doctorate where I could always get excellent pasta, al dente.

I pray:pray: :pray: that you forgive my "senior moment" and know that I not only have seen countless theatre renditions of Hairspray ( hardly need any on my spare white pate )and a movie or too, that I am old enough to have lived the sixties.....as an adult......:)

[revtj]

Bless me Father, for I have sinned :lol:

:love:
tj

PS Nice to have some more old fogies on the site. Some of these young whipper-snappers need our help! :D

[Mia14]

Hey, revtj, take it easy on our whipper-snappers! :D
BTW, rev, I also laugh at the pictures of blond-haired and blue-eyed, but Middle-Eastern Jesus.


I agree with what Liberal Crozier said about how homophobia has been causing everyone to look twice at friendly gestures. Crazy world we live in...


It doesn't matter if the document is true or not. It doesn't matter if Jesus slept with Mary Mag, Judas, Peter, or all the apostles - what does matter is that he was a loving and kind person. What this document says won't change that.

I don't think I can direct my prayers and worship directly to Jesus as people do in some faiths (I'm still testing out my own beliefs), but I do recognize him as a great teacher and spiritual leader who was not unlike Siddhartha, Gandhi, or even M.L. King.

[revtj]

Mia, I honor your path and respect your inquiry! Faith would not be worthwhile, nor would it even be faith, if it were reduced to brainwashing.

We (do I have a witness?:confused: ) who call you 'whipper-snappers' are only envious because we don't whip our snapper as often, and, we feel an obligation to try to steer you away from pain, heartbreak and such if we could...sorta like your gay big bro or something.

otherwise: YOU GO GERL! :D

[Liberal Crozier]

ROFL (:lol: ) ....for the MAO requires that I still had one to brag about :p

The problem with "confessions" of this sort is the long, detailed and arduous "penances" that require literally hours on one's knees to complete....:pray: :pray:

In Canada, of course, same-sex marriage is legal, and there are several organisations that operate to facilitate immigration for US couples and singles. Of course, anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, cannot "marry an immigration card", but I counsel them that they can find their soul mate on the many vacations they make to our fair nation.

As for learning the code, we Canadians require being asked to marry with the petitioner on one knee only. ;). Two knees are acceptable, without the need to confess fornication, only AFTER one is safely on their honeymoon.:lol:

Yes, let us hope that this old fogie has something worthwhile to say to the Gen X, Y and Z crowd. The oldest of the Boomer generation, I remember well when we could not trust someone exactly half the age we now hold.

My only "caveat" is to choose your faith associations with a complete and clear understanding of their sexual theology, and not only their emotive services or baroque liturgical fare. It is difficult to leave your cradle belief system, and many, like Mia for example, search outside their faith system, let alone their denominations. It is a courageous journey for the soul.

[Mia14]

Revtj, I'd love a gay big brother. :pray: In fact, I think I could really use one at this time in my life.

I don't know if my beliefs really fit into any one religion, but I admire the teachings of Buddhism and I'm trying to learn more. It seems to be one of those things, however, that there is a lot of information on, but it's hard to learn about without a teacher.

[Liberal Crozier]

It is interesting to note that many "spiritual pilgrims" are leaving, and are seeking other faith systems, notably Buddhism, Hinduism, and yes, Islam.
Most of these pilgrims were the scions of families raised in Catholic or Greek Orthodox or Protestant families.

The vociferous theocratic right coupled with the ambivalence or silence of the religious "left", has made Christianity appear to the LGBT person as "the " leaders in the culture and legal and spiritual wars waged against us.

After four or five cruises, Rosie O'Donnell has released a documentary of her first cruise in 2004. In two separate episodes, the MCC minister marries a gay and then a lesbian couple, with five and two children, respectively.

The third is the "reception" in the Bahamas by theocon right protestors with Jesus on their lips and observable hatred in their hearts and minds. Children were crying as they heard adults villifying their parents and their families. It was both vulgar and the antithesis of the Christian message.

These words were, ironically and sadly, on the lips of African-descended men and women whose first associations with Christianity from Europeans was that they were sub-human and devoid of a soul, and were politically less than one white human being, and that Scripture supported their continued enslavement and breeding by animal husbandry standards.

African-descended politicians and clergy who stand with the theocratic right and leaders who fought MLK JR and opposed their human rights, including the last vestige to fall, interracial marriage - is actually obscene. This, especially when Strom Thurmond had an interracial daughter through the rape of his house servant when he was a young man. The elderly woman waited until the centenarian died to reveal it.

This is the closet and the behaviours that they wanted concealed from "polite society". Telling the truth to power and to bigots and haters is not antithetical to the spirit of non-violence.

I certainly believe in the power of prayer. I had a quadruple bypass three years ago following a myocardial infarction - the stress of living two lives did not contribute to good health....."mens sana in corpore sano".....

A week ago, my spouse felt an inflammation in my inguinal lymph node. This lymphoma will be surgically removed on Easter Monday. The pathologist will be in theatre ready to diagnose the tumour. Of course, the prayers of my spouse and child is for a cure, or better, no malignancy. My prayer also is for accepting the will of God in my life. I surrendered my life to Him decades ago. I was an acolyte at the age of seven...a road that eventually led me to my consecration/ordination as a bishop. It also led me on this current pilgrimage as an " Apostolic Successor on the road. " There is a saying, " Where the bishop is, there is the Church". At the present time, my cathedral is virtual, and my cathedra are the "stands that I take, and the places where I choose to sit."

The power of prayer.....in any belief system......is our conversation with God to ask for justice and love to prevail... LABORARE EST ORARE...St. Benedict...:pray: :pray: :pray:

[maklelan]

Blows my mind...
---
It's scary to think that the Bible was compiled by men and there were so many more gospels that the greater public may never know of. I've heard of a gospel according to Mary and one according to Thomas. Who knows what really happened?

There were over five thousand different texts to sift through when they first started compiling a New Testament. The Gospel of Judas is a Gnsotic text, and there were thousands of them, to be sure. At its earliest, Christianity was kept alive and promulgated through oral tradition, and many believe the stories weren't put to paper until the Gnostics started circulating their own Gospels. The thought was that the Gospel would get heinously perverted unless some documents were produced. This website will give you a fascinating look into how the New Testament was compiled and canonized:

http://www.geocities.com/airspirit3/newtestamentcanon.html

and this website will give you the original Greek and current English texts for all the early Christian writings that we have:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com

Check those sites out and tell me what you learn about early Christianity.

[Daniel]

There were over five thousand different texts to sift through when they first started compiling a New Testament. The Gospel of Judas is a Gnsotic text, and there were thousands of them, to be sure. At its earliest, Christianity was kept alive and promulgated through oral tradition....

Check those sites out and tell me what you learn about early Christianity.

Makelan,

Thanks for the webpages.

In a nutshell, the first webpage you include bring to mind this phrase (who originated it I can't remember): "History is written by the conquerors" While the phrase was made, I believe, in reference to military matters, it applies equally to the history of the church and calls into question a great many things.