Help me?

[Jennifer5]

I have to do a short report....

"In the light of other Scriptures, interpret Joshua 11:20"



...being a horrible bible student, I don't seem to figure this out. It sounds easy, but I'm struggling.

:reading:

[keltic63]

For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, to come against Israel in battle, that he might utterly destroy them, that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses.


you need some context!

[BruceChris]

In the Old Testament, especially in the early writings, God seems to be modeled on a strong, judgmental, patriarchal tribal leader. A God who is strong, and who makes his people safe by protecting them from their enemies, often by inflicting, or helping to inflict a terrible death on them.

As we read toward and into the New Testament, we move from a more male God towards a more female God, a God not of judgment and violence, but of love, and forgiveness. As Keltic hinted at, a god who would first harden the hearts of a people, just to make them more worthy of being put to death is certainly not the God that I worship.

I'm sure that there must be lots of stuff on any part of the Bible on the internet. This would seem like more of an assignment on how to use the net as a learning tool. Good Luck!

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[Jennifer5]

you need some context!
Yeah, I don't get it... :confused:

In the Old Testament, especially in the early writings, God seems to be modeled on a strong, judgmental, patriarchal tribal leader. A God who is strong, and who makes his people safe by protecting them from their enemies, often by inflicting, or helping to inflict a terrible death on them.

As we read toward and into the New Testament, we move from a more male God towards a more female God, a God not of judgment and violence, but of love, and forgiveness. As Keltic hinted at, a god who would first harden the hearts of a people, just to make them more worthy of being put to death is certainly not the God that I worship.

I'm sure that there must be lots of stuff on any part of the Bible on the internet. This would seem like more of an assignment on how to use the net as a learning tool. Good Luck!

Namaste', Bruce Chris
Interesting... but I don't really know how to use any of these insights.. :o (:love:)


I'm COMPLETELY brain-dead when bible class is what I'm dealing with.

[Jennifer5]

Jenn,

Start with a thesis that you can defend. something like... "some people believe that this passage and others like it prove that God approves of war and uses war to further his ends, but this is not true." Then use other passages from scripture that you believe show that God does not approve of killing our enemies... like "love the lord your God with all your soul/strength and your neighbor as yourself" or "turn the other cheek" "love your enemies"

Find one of the online Bibles where you can do a search for words and phrases to find what you are looking for. http://www.biblegateway.org
That is actually a very helpful suggestion! Thank you.

I do use biblegateway... always helps make things as easy as possible! :)


I'll work on that for a while this morning and try to get back to this thread later and let you know how it's coming... I'll either need help or be done! It's only 500 words, so that part makes it easier.:love:

[Jennifer5]

This is what I came up with before going brain-dead again...



Joshua 11:20: For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage was against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Here we have found a good example of a passage that causes a lot of debate. Some may read Joshua 11:20 and think that if God is on their side that is alright to harm or even kill another person. This passage gives the impression that the idea of whipping out an entire nation is acceptable.

In light of other scriptures though, we can interpret Joshua 11:20 very differently. When we look at Leviticus 19:18 for example; “ 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” Reading this you could feel very differently about Joshua 11:20, if we take passages such as Leviticus 19:18 we could say that God was actually going against his own word in a very big way. The same God who said that he would harden the hearts of the people so that they may destroy another nation, was the same God who told us to not hold a grudge against anyone and to love your neighbor as yourself?

[Jennifer5]

Joshua 11:20: For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage was against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Here we have found a good example of a passage that causes a lot of debate. Some may read Joshua 11:20 and think that if God is on their side that is alright to harm or even kill another person. This passage gives the impression that the idea of whipping out an entire nation is acceptable.

In light of other scriptures though, we can interpret Joshua 11:20 very differently. When we look at Leviticus 19:18 for example; “ 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” Reading this you could feel very differently about Joshua 11:20, if we take passages such as Leviticus 19:18 we could say that God was actually going against his own word in a very big way. The same God who said that he would harden the hearts of the people so that they may destroy another nation, was the same God who told us to not hold a grudge against anyone and to love your neighbor as yourself?

Are we talking about one God? Are all the "God says" in the Bible, really things that God has said? Or are some things just what others have said God said? How do we know? The only way I know how to do, is use my best judgement in these situations. I don't believe in the God who hardened the hearts of the people so that they may destory Israel. I believe that this was more likely a story told to justify their wrong doings. God would never have allowed this. God tells us to "love thy neighbor", "to turn the other cheek", and to "never seek revenge or bear a grudge".

[keltic63]

Jennifer: now take those thoughts and write them from the perspective of what Jesus would want you to do. Would Jesus ask us to speak in such a way that we turn people away from God? would Jesus then tell us to destroy those same people?

here's what I'm thinking: does the term "harden their hearts" mean that God actually imposed on their thinking processes so that God could then attack and destroy? or could it mean that the people were so offended by the concepts presented by this God, that they became stubborn and opposed God? God (his teachings) were not received, and so God (God's concepts) hardened their hearts (as in they refused to listen, NOT that God meddled with their brains....)

[Jennifer5]

Jennifer: now take those thoughts and write them from the perspective of what Jesus would want you to do. Would Jesus ask us to speak in such a way that we turn people away from God? would Jesus then tell us to destroy those same people?

here's what I'm thinking: does the term "harden their hearts" mean that God actually imposed on their thinking processes so that God could then attack and destroy? or could it mean that the people were so offended by the concepts presented by this God, that they became stubborn and opposed God? God (his teachings) were not received, and so God (God's concepts) hardened their hearts (as in they refused to listen, NOT that God meddled with their brains....)

Hmmm... very interesting, very helpful, thank you! :)

[Jennifer5]

Joshua 11:20: For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Here we have found a good example of a passage that causes a lot of debate. Some may read Joshua 11:20 and think that if God is on their side that it is alright to harm or even kill another person. This passage gives the impression that the idea that killing another person is acceptable.

In light of other scriptures though, we can interpret Joshua 11:20 very differently. When we look at Leviticus 19:18 for example; “ 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” Reading this you could feel that perhaps God was going against his own word in Joshua 11:20. Was it the same God who would harden the hearts of the people, as the one who said not to hold a grudge against anyone and to love your neighbor as yourself? I don't think it is the same God. In fact, I believe that the person speaking in Joshua 11:20, was not God at all, but rather a person or group of people trying to justify their wrong doings. I don't believe for a moment that God hardened the hearts of the people so that they could be destroyed.

Would a God who tells us to "love our neighbor", "turn the other cheek" and to "never seek revenge or bear a grudge" ever kill even a single person? Was God testing the people? I think that if you look through other stories in the Bible, that is perfectly possible! Many times God has put people in very difficult situations, forcing them to make the right choice. So, what was the right choice? Did the people have a influence on what would happen in this situation? What would Jesus do? What would he want us to do in the situation? I believe that the people of Isreal did in fact deside what would happen in this situation, their hearts did not have to be hardened against God, they allowed that to happen. Why? Only they know. Had God tell them something which they refused to accept, which resulted in their rejection of him? Who knows? So, I continue to think that this situation was nothing more than God testing the people.

To answer the question of 'what would Jesus do?', I have to say I think he would have agreed that he was being tested to make the right choices. I don't think that Jesus would have destroyed the people, no matter how difficult of sinful they may have become. I believe that Jesus never would have spoken against God, but that he would try to explain to the people that sometimes God will ask them a question that only they can answer.

In conclusion, I believe that God did not harden the hearts of the people, but that the people choose to have their hearts hardened against him. You always have the power to rise above and make the right choice. Love your neighbor when you're told to kill him, turn the other cheek when told to fight back, and let go of the past when told that you must get revenge. God is always testing us, so listen for the true word of God and his will.

Bibliography:
Accessed 2-12-2008. < www.biblegateway.com >