Spiritual drunkenness and homosexuality

[ledfordkendall]

This morning my pastor preached on our nation's drunkenness - spiritual drunkenness. His texts were from the books of Jeremiah and II Thessalonians. His sole target was homosexuality and the fact that the nation as a whole has/is becoming drunken or numb toward the sin, sickness and perversion of homosexuality. He gave the example of the Episcopals as a denomination having allowed a gay to become one of their bishops and that we needed to pray for the Episcopalians and Lutherans so that they don't sink into any further depravity by their allowing gays in to their congregations. I feel so shameful and guilty at this point. As far as I know, I am the only one in my church who is gay. If I came out to them, I am sure I would be disfellowshiped within a week. I've been going there for over five years now and would hate to leave, but I feel so very guilty and alone. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, what did you do to get past the feelings of shame and guilt? I know I haven't been able to find anything in any of the Gospels that shows Jesus saying anything about homosexuality, but I know that Paul did - but perhaps he did because of the times and surroundings in which he found himself? Can anyone help me out with this?

Kendall

[Zerbie]

Hi Kendall,

The incident (sermon) you describe above made me wince.

Pray for the Episcopals so they don't sink further into depravity?? Wow.:(:confused:
I happened to be on the premises of an Episcopal church yesterday and spent a moment glancing over a bulletin board where the church had posted its goals that members are working towards: eradicating extreme poverty and hunger, providing clean water to communities where it is presently scare or unavailable, providing health care, prenatal care, and child preventive medicine to those who are destitute. And so on. In fact, they were in the midst of a fundraising project to raise funds for a specific village in another country so that wells could be built there for clean water. That sound like depravity to you?

I am so sorry to hear of the guilty and shamed feelings you have. :'( That sermon would have pushed all the buttons of a lifetime of shaming experiences. The bad feelings you have indicate that something bad has *happened to* you. Not that *you* are bad. You have done no wrong about which to feel guilty. You, Kendall, are just being. It doesn't get more innocent than that. :love: You were taught to feel shame by being shamed. You did nothing to warrant that kind of treatment.

You may or may not be the only gay person there. My heart aches to think of you feeling isolated there, and thinking that possibly there is another gay man or lesbian in your congregation hearing those same words and also walking out the door heavy with shame. :(

You will find others here who have been in your situation before, have made, and are currently making, a variety of choices about how they choose to respond. They will weigh in presently, I'm sure.

For now, accept that you have done no wrong by *being.* You just are, that's all. :love: God's love is unconditional. People's love sometimes is conditional, and it sounds like your pastor's love is conditioned upon people being heterosexual. But be assured, God is much greater than your pastor. :lol: Much.

May I ask why you would hate to leave this particular church? Maybe you have friends there? Otherwise, I would think you might find great joy in identifying an affirming church where you will never walk out the door having been told that who you are is depraved and wrong. When I lived in Houston there was an MCC church not far from the Montrose area. Maybe it's still there. You did say you're near Houston right?

[BenL]

This morning my pastor preached on our nation's drunkenness - spiritual drunkenness. His texts were from the books of Jeremiah and II Thessalonians. His sole target was homosexuality and the fact that the nation as a whole has/is becoming drunken or numb toward the sin, sickness and perversion of homosexuality. He gave the example of the Episcopals as a denomination having allowed a gay to become one of their bishops and that we needed to pray for the Episcopalians and Lutherans so that they don't sink into any further depravity by their allowing gays in to their congregations.

Kendall, I'm an Episcopalian in a very welcoming and diverse parish. We have a LGBT group and there's a rainbow flag hanging at the back of the nave. I thank God for my congregation. Not all Episcopal churches are as welcoming as mine. Some are downright exluding in their behavior. Your pastor may have written us off as a denomination, but the truth is that the struggle of the cultures is being waged within our churches. Gene Robinson, the gay bishop he talked about, is not the only gay bishop in the Anglican Communion. There are plenty and there have been plenty over the years. He is the first one honest enough not to hide behind platitudes.

I feel so shameful and guilty at this point. As far as I know, I am the only one in my church who is gay. If I came out to them, I am sure I would be disfellowshiped within a week. I've been going there for over five years now and would hate to leave, but I feel so very guilty and alone. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, what did you do to get past the feelings of shame and guilt? I know I haven't been able to find anything in any of the Gospels that shows Jesus saying anything about homosexuality, but I know that Paul did - but perhaps he did because of the times and surroundings in which he found himself? Can anyone help me out with this?

Kendall

Just as Gene Robinson isn't the only gay bishop in our denomination, you're probably not the only gay person in your congregation. Shame and guilt are terrible burdens to bear. These burdens are not put there by God or Jesus, but by human beings who misunderstand the Scriptures. Check out this wonderful Soulforce resource, the movie For the Bible Told Me So (http://www.soulforce.org/article/1306). It relates the stories of four families who believed as your pastor does, who raised their children in the bosoms of their faith communities, and who all had children who were gay or lesbian. They struggled mightily with their faith and the deep-seated love they had for their families. Love won out and showed them that God loves all people, no matter what their sexual orientation. The orientation is neutral; it's how you express it ... and that doesn't mean punitive celibacy but faithfulness to God, to yourself and to any partner you may have.

Kendall, God does not want you to be alone, either in your love life or your life of faith. I'm glad you found Soulforce. I hope you find solace and friends here.

[scott snedeker]

Maybe this a message, an answer to your question of where to find an affirming church.

Maybe he is telling you where to go (to an Episcopal Chirch) and making it clear that it is time to leave where you are now.

If you do I would just fade away, and if someone asks why you changed, you can tell them that you were called.

For a time I had a very dear lover who also was my spiritual guide. He became the holder of my heart spirit during my darkest time. He held it safe from me until I was well enough spiritually, at which time he returned my heart spirit to me. He taught me many things and among them was this:

"Scotty, when you are doing what you are supposed to, the universe conspires to help you."

This sermon looks to me like the universe conspiring to help you make the right decision. I'm sure your pastor is unaware of his role or what God is communicating to you through him. :cool::love:

[BruceChris]

But the Methodists, the Presbyterians, and the Lutherans, as well as most other mainline denominations are going through the same struggles. They just don't get as much press.

I'm sorry that your pastor is expressing so much fear and anger.

I'm lucky, I guess. I've got a wonderful church

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1093

There are are many resources for gay Christians out here. You can google many of them.

Here is one link that I found that addresses many of the *clobber* passages:

http://www.ambs.edu/LJohns/Homosexuality.htm

http://www.welcomingresources.org This is one that I especially like.

This afternoon I went to a celebration of Open and Affirming churches, complete with workshops on how to start and guide the process for your church to become Open and Affirming. This was truly a wonderful, spiritual experience, shared with some very wonderful people.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Pablo Rafael]

As far as I know, I am the only one in my church who is gay.
I would bet that it is pretty certain that you are NOT the only one in your church who is gay. I don't know any other gays in my church, but in a congregation with 1000 families, I know there a lot of gays there. There are others in your congregation who are not speaking out.


If I came out to them, I am sure I would be disfellowshiped within a week. I've been going there for over five years now and would hate to leave, but I feel so very guilty and alone.
You should have nothing to feel guilty about. The problem is with homophobia in the church; it is not you. If people would look down on you, that is their problem. Don't let it translate into something YOU have to feel bad about. If you are disfellowshiped, it will be their problem as well. I feel that those of us who first come out in homophobic churches will bear the brunt of the persecution, but it is necessary to show people that gays are loving, Christian, decent people who are no different from anyone else except in that God gave them a different sexual orientation. I would hate to be kicked out of my parish, but I certainly wouldn't feel guilty about it. If you are comfortable in looking for a new church, it might be a good time to look around. Those Episcopalians and Lutherans(ELCA) are not bad options.

I know I haven't been able to find anything in any of the Gospels that shows Jesus saying anything about homosexuality, but I know that Paul did - but perhaps he did because of the times and surroundings in which he found himself? Can anyone help me out with this?
Paul does indeed have a few passages that might speak of homoseuality. However, it is under dispute as to whether any of those verses of Paul actually speak about homosexuality. If they do speak of homosexuality, (which I think probable) they most certainly don't speak against loving committed relationships.

When Paul or anyone else in the Bible speaks of heterosexual relationships that are hurtful, no one says that ALL heterosexual relationships are bad. But when mention is made of hurtful homosexual practices (such as pedophilia and prostitution), ALL homosexual relationships are assumed to be bad. I believe that we as gays need to be loving and respectful of others in our relationships, but just because Paul speaks against "arseokoitai"(sp?) (probably pedophilia so prevelant in upper class Greco-Roman culture), and "malakos" (possibly male prostitution) doesn't translate to, "All gay relationships are bad".

Anyway, I am starting on a bit of a rant here. Don't get discouraged. God is with you in this struggle. Look into your heart; is your attraction to others of the same sex evil? If you are like me, you know that it isn't evil. I know when I've done wrong, being gay just isn't one of those times.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[tymejumper]

I'm sorry you had to hear such hate. At your church no less. Maybe it's time to move on and find a LGBT welcoming church. Perhaps this is Gods message to you that it's time to find those who are accepting and truly following his word. He did send Jesus to tell us "what you do to these the least, you do to me". Perhaps he was refering to children, but I like to believe he was talking about all who are the underdogs.

You have not a thing to feel guilty about. If anyone were to feel guilt, it should be your pastor for preaching hate. Hang in there

Much Metta,
Rebekah