One question...

[Hyeon Cho]

Greetings.

I posted an article about "the Bible and homosexuality" on a web site I often visit, after reading "What the Bible Says -- and Doesn't Say -- Homosexuality."

According to the PDF document, you cannot judge homosexuals by the Bible and sexual orientation is not a choice but a natural gift.

I concluded by citing them.

After that, one guy asked, "What if a heterosexual becomes homosexual?"

That's why I am asking in this thread.

Is it possible for inborn heterosexuals to become homosexuals?

If it's possible, are they bisexuals or homosexuals in the end?

The questioner did not suggest such cases, but I didn't ask why.

I am not an expert in psychology, biology, nor genetics. :confused:

I guess he thinks it's agreeable for homosexuals to live as homosexuals, but it's not obeying to God for heterosexuals to live as homosexuals.

I will welcome any opinions from anyone. :)

[Vanessa White]

This is a very good question. I think one way in which this issue becomes confusing for people who lack an understanding, is when sexual/affectional orientation and behavior is all clumped together. There are persons who I believe call themselves, consider themselves to be heterosexual. However, they may participate in homosexual sexual acts because they are curious, or find those acts pleasurable. Or, they consider themselves heterosexual, however, really have a homosexual orientation, which they have not yet acknowledged. Coming out is a process, not an event, and for some people, it can take much of their lifetime to come to terms and acceptance of it.

There are some people who believe that the spectrum of sexual orientation is a spectrum, with a wide range of possibilities, with one end being heterosexual and the other end being homosexual; and the belief of some is that we all ebb and flow along that spectrum throughout our lifetime. I don't know that I buy that, but it has been stated by some. There are many subtleties to sexual and affectional orientation that are not answered by just saying that someone "became" gay.

Does that help? :love:

[Hyeon Cho]

Dear u-dog

Thanks for having interest in my name. :)

I forgot introducing myself, that's my mistake.

My name may sound non-English, and that's right.

I am from South Korea. (male, heterosexual)

I am gonna post an article in 'Hello, my name is...'

I know that needs to be done before I posted the question.

Please allow for my haste. :)

[Zerbie]

one guy asked, "What if a heterosexual becomes homosexual?"

That's why I am asking in this thread.

Is it possible for inborn heterosexuals to become homosexuals?

If it's possible, are they bisexuals or homosexuals in the end?
. :)

I would guess "no." I tend to disbelieve the idea that sexual orientation can really pivot 180 degrees like that, though in the case of bisexual persons, it certainly can appear to change. I have mentioned before on this forum that my own attractions seemed to change suddenly from women to men, to women, to men again.

While all of the above are good questions, a better question might be "why ask all these questions to define human beings and confine their experiences within artificial limits?" (Since such limits may not truly 100% exist, certainly not for everyone, even if for some.)

They are good questions because they open us to examine ideas and experiences we may not have had ourselves. But they are also questions without a clearly definable answer: you will find nearly as many answers to your questions as there are people in this world.

So when it comes to determining what to call someone's sexual orientation, usually the best response is to let each person tell you what they are.

[scott snedeker]

I guess he thinks it's agreeable for homosexuals to live as homosexuals, but it's not obeying to God for heterosexuals to live as homosexuals.



I think would agree with the above statement, but probably not in the angle I think you are coming from. For instance, I certainly agree with the converse.


.....it's not obeying to God for homosexuals to live as heterosexuals.:cool:

This is in tune with my pagan spiritual belief that love-making connects one to the spirit of the Earth [God, if that label suits you better].

The reward is Joy and love and awareness of love all around you. So for a pagan, "obeying God" means making love to the one (or more) who attract(s) you and move(s) you.:love::love::love:

If you are gay that means the same gender. If you are straight that means the opposite gender. If you are Bi that means In what ever capacity you have. It seems particularly lucky to be bi when looked at in this way!:D

Vive Lucky Pierre!

I feel obeying is really a strong word, however. There is not true punishment, but just missing out on the best Gift a being can receive.... And Loneliness and absence of euphoric afterglow can seem like punishment..... If I go too long without it. :mad::rolleyes: :lol:

[OtterXero]

Interesting question. There's certainly nothing 'preventing' someone with a heterosexual orientation to behave in a homosexual way (more on the question of this makes them homosexual later), just as there is nothing preventing homosexuals from behaving as heterosexuals. However, there are certainly many culture beliefs that tend to greatly supresses and restrict heterosexuals from doing homosexual things. And as Scotty said, a heterosexual would probably enjoy a heterosexual relationship moreso than a homosexual one.

Now... if someone identifies as heterosexual, but does something that would be considered homosexual and doesn't have an issue with it, perhaps even enjoys it... maybe this would indicate that this person might be a little bit more bisexual than heterosexual. Rather than thinking as human sexuality only encompassing three possibilities (hetero, bi, and homo), I view human sexuality as more of a spectrum across which different people lay and subsequently discover where they fit on that spectrum throughout their lifetime. So, it's possible someone may fall between hetero and bi or bi and homo but still identify as heterosexual or homosexual. So... that being the case, if someone thought they were an inborn heterosexual but discover they might enjoy homosexual things to some extent, then perhaps that aren' 100% inborn heterosexuals ^^.

I hope that all made sense. Please let me know if it doesn't. I also would like to note that what I was talking about operates under the understanding that there's a difference between sexual identity (hetero, bi, homo) and sexual behavior (same or opposite sex) for some people, so that might explain what you're trying to get at... that there could be a heterosexual who might enjoy homosexual things, potentially causing the person to think they are one, and that might be the case and they just hadn't realized it yet (usually this happens during one's teenage years or soon for people), or it could just be they might not be 100% heterosexual and are discovering better where they are on the spectrum I mentioned.

[andrewlittle]

I am inclined to think, along with other responders, that the sexual dichotomy of hetero- and homo-sexuality is what is wrong. Given an environment in which no outside forces were exerted, people would land wherever they felt led on the continuum of sexuality.

For people towards the outer limits of the continuum their sexual inclinations would be clear - either same gender or opposite gender attraction. I think, however, that there aren't too many people dwelling at these extremes. So you have what I believe to be the majority of people - those dwelling in the more central places on the continuum. Not only are their attractions likely to be ambiguous, but they are also likely to shift from time to time.

I think that how the attrcation is lived out is different, as well. For an extreme-dweller, the attraction of gender would take precedence over the attrcation to individuals. For the centrist-dwellers, attraction to individuals would be more important than their gender identity.

Then enters social norms into the equation. We've had centuries of social norms being based on procreation based on increasing tribal strength - the desire for numbers and continuation of the "lineage". These social norms have taken on the stuff of law - religious and civil - and have become absolutes, even though the need for enforcement of these norms has long passed. We have enough f'ing people.

But the social norms still reward procreative activity, and denigrate those combinations that don't produce children. How many times do newly married heterosexuals hear the question about having kids? And many people look askance at couples who choose not to have children - like something is wrong with them. Even more so, then, for same-gender coupling that couldn't produce children by the conventional means.

These social norms then function like tightening the belt on a fat man. For a centrist-dweller, the social norms say you should only be attracted to opposite gender people. Since we believe in these norms - we've heard these voices all our lives - we internalize them and assume that the part of us that find John attractive is a perversion. Tighten the belt - control the attraction.

Unfortunately, tightening the belt just squeezes the fat into places it wasn't intended to be. The tighter we make the belt, the more the fat is shoved into bizarre places, until we have married self-proclaiming heterosexuals tapping their feet in restroom stalls or hiring same-gender sex-workers to live out what are now considered prurient perversions. And we're fooling ourselves if we think this is new behavior.

If someone has tightened their belt to the point of severe constriction for long enough, and they decide to have a healthier attitude towards attraction, they may appear to change their orientation. While they are simply living authentically into the identity they hve always had, but ignored, they may appear to the outside world to have changed their sexuality. Likewise, if someone decides to tighten their belt because of outside pressure to conform to the norms, they may appear to the outside world to become "normal" heterosexuals. In reality, however, they have just become a fat-bomb waiting to explode when the belt fails.

The real problem comes from trying to understand a new paradigm while looking through the same old lens. If the lens is focussed on social norms of sexuality, we will ask questions like can a straight person become gay, or visa versa. If the lens is focussed on authentic sexuality, the questions will be more like, "Can a person really only be attracted to one gender?"

So the problem is that the question, "What if a heterosexual becomes homosexual?", is flawed. It's a question asked by the voices in our heads, not by our own voice.

[Vanessa White]

Thanks, Andrew. What a tremendous response.

I don't think that I will ever view a belt the same again, either.....:):love:

[keltic63]

If someone has tightened their belt to the point of severe constriction for long enough, and they decide to have a healthier attitude towards attraction, they may appear to change their orientation. While they are simply living authentically into the identity they hve always had, but ignored, they may appear to the outside world to have changed their sexuality. Likewise, if someone decides to tighten their belt because of outside pressure to conform to the norms, they may appear to the outside world to become "normal" heterosexuals. In reality, however, they have just become a fat-bomb waiting to explode when the belt fails.



I've had one person tell me that because I was in a straight marriage and have 3 children, that it appears I changed my orientation, or more directly, they said I "chose" to be gay. That's just one person though, most everyone else with whom I've had the conversation has said they couldn't figure out why this gay man was married to a woman.


and yes, the belt failed miserably :lol:

[Daniel]

I've had one person tell me that because I was in a straight marriage and have 3 children, that it appears I changed my orientation, or more directly, they said I "chose" to be gay. That's just one person though, most everyone else with whom I've had the conversation has said they couldn't figure out why this gay man was married to a woman.


and yes, the belt failed miserably :lol:


I, on the other hand, have never slept with a woman, and should I do so now (not very likely to happen believe you me! :lol:), would that make me a straight man?

The answer, my dear Watson, is NO! Being gay was not something I chose- it revealed itself as I let go of my fears and indoctrinated fundamentalist (you are only a real man when you are hetero) thinking.

[keltic63]

I, on the other hand, have never slept with a woman, and should I do so now (not very likely to happen believe you me! :lol:), would that make me a straight man?

The answer, my dear Watson, is NO! Being gay was not something I chose- it revealed itself as I let go of my fears and indoctrinated fundamentalist (you are only a real man when you are hetero) thinking.

and since coming out, I've noticed that I am attracted to women. I just don't want to see them naked, and I really have no desire to do anything sexual with them. they can make great best friends though!

[tymejumper]

and since coming out, I've noticed that I am attracted to women. I just don't want to see them naked, and I really have no desire to do anything sexual with them. they can make great best friends though!



I went all through this one with my therapist. I have always had male friends, I like to hug them and have them hug me. I think they can look sexy and I find certian men 'hot'. I enjoy some who have a nice physical appearance and take care of their bodies. I think men with hair on their chests look nicer than bare men. Do I want to have sex with them? Do I get all turned on thinking of kissing them? While I was trying to be straight, I slept with a fair share of them, trying to figure out why I didn't want or enjoy it as much as all the other women did. I thought it was something wrong with my sex drive. I wondered if something was physically wrong with me, because I didn't want sex with good looking men, just friendship. When I discovered women, not just in my fantasy life or having a crush on them, but actually had sex with a woman, kissed a woman, there was absolutely NO confusion in my mind whom I prefered and was attracted to.

I still enjoy looking at attractive men. The same way I like looking at a Pacasso or a Salvador Dahl painting. Do I want it in my house? Do I want to have it? Nope.