Day of Silence local controversy

[Zerbie]

I am so distressed reading these articles and the comments attached. I am amazed at the level of complete ignorance and inability to understand in even the most basic of ways what the DOS is about that is being expressed by so many of my neighbors. I am dumbfounded!

If anyone would care to comment, I am at a loss for words.

Here is some of the discussion.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/114599

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/114773

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/114740

http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/2008/04/24/20080424gr-dayofsilence0425-ON.html

[Zerbie]

Additional post to add that what disturbs me as much as (or more than??) the homophobia I see in many of the comments is the obvious inability to comprehend simple reading material. And many of those who couldn't understand the information they read are home-schooling their children!!

I can't understand how anyone can miss the point by such wide margins, yet most people commenting apparently did just that. Someone please tell me this kind of ignorance is a statistical exception?
:(:'(

[BlueGirl]

None of that ignorance or homophobia surprises me at all. That's the kind of thinking I'm familiar with here. They hate anyone who is gay and they can't or won't see beyond that hate. I don't understand either how anyone with at least average or even a little below average inteligence can think like that but, going by what I hear and read in my own little corner of the world here and from the fundamentalists every where in this country of "liberty and justice for all", I don't think it's the exception. For some reason, when anything remotely has to do with being gay :eek: it sets off something in their brains and they go into a tizzy.

Just recently when a certain heterosexual woman invited me to her church and was telling me what I ought to do to find friends, she didn't seem to believe me when I said that a lot of heterosexuals wouldn't like me because I'm gay, as if I didn't know what I was talking about. Not too long after that when we were having another talk and I told her that again (I still don't think she believed me), she said they are "scared of gay people". Duh :confused: Do people usually like someone they are scared of?
She also said something that gave me the impression that a friend of hers doesn't trust ME because of something one other particular lesbian allegedly did (I have serious doubts about that), as if we're all alike. Talk about ridiculous ignorance!!! :mad: Just for the record, if I did want to "make a pass" at someone, her friend wouldn't have a thing to worry about.

BlueGirl

[Zerbie]

At the moment, I regret having posted a rant full of negativity and links to such negative material.

Thank you Blue for responding. What you write about is so sad. I am really disheartened to hear about that being a dominant trend in so many parts of society.

To everyone:
Why am I surprised? I knew that as a society we have many problems. I just don't think I saw how. . . tangled up our problems are. I spend most of my time in a very different environment where I really do not see much of this kind of problem. Some, but. . . nothing like this.

How do we begin to solve these problems? I thought about commenting on some of the discussions, but could not even begin to say anything - in fact found the discussions made me feel angry and even hateful. So I just stopped reading without commenting. I hoped some of you might be able to write some positive words.

How do we begin to solve the problem? :pray::pray:

[andrewlittle]

I am reading this and contemplating your questions, Zerbie. I'll have to think for a little while, though.

[Emproph]

For some reason, when anything remotely has to do with being gay :eek: it sets off something in their brains and they go into a tizzy.

Why am I surprised? I knew that as a society we have many problems. I just don't think I saw how. . . tangled up our problems are. I spend most of my time in a very different environment where I really do not see much of this kind of problem. Some, but. . . nothing like this.

I too have been amazed at how shrill and frenzied they’ve become over this. And it's not just in your area, I've been noticing the increased intensity over the past couple weeks, and I know we didn’t go through this last year.

As I posted elsewhere:

I get the impression that this is driving them particularly insane because they have no discernible “offense” to grasp onto.

I think it’s just like with the hate crimes legislation. It’s a hatred that's easy to exploit because anything that portrays homosexuality as the victim, portrays “sin” as the victim.

And since “sin” is the be-all end-all of human oppression,
And since homosexuality is the purest form of the manifestation of sin in nature (ie; the most unatural nature),
And since they derive their identity, not by their love of love, but by their love of hating evil (the absence of love),

Then DOS represents the message that Satan itself is the victim.

-or that “sin” is being portrayed as the victim
-or that the source of human of oppression is being portrayed as the victim.

They’re seeing this in the exact same infuriating way that we do as far as unfairness goes.

Furthermore, they see this message as being translated to an audience that is MOST receptive to it, captive adolescent-students, and the “very least among us.”

But they can’t wrap their brains around how to condemn it. Political-perception-wise speaking, it’s not only not ill-intentioned, it’s in the name of helping to prevent ill-intention.

So they have literally been relegated to claiming that silence itself is disruptive -- despite the fact that students are indeed required (http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2008/04/liberty-counsels-mat-staver-latest-to-be-truth-challenged/) to verbally respond in class when necessary.

And by claiming that the most definitively peaceful form of drawing attention to significant unnecessary violence, is somehow in actuality, significant violence against them, they expose themselves for the intellectually challenged perverts that they are.

Either they really believe the stuff they’re saying, or they are blindly believing in someone who does - or both.

~~~
Good As You has some interesting insight into the potential mindset of some of these parents:
WA: Grown adults teach teens how to throw stones (http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/04/wa-grown-adults.html)

Also, an inspiring article I found:
Silence speaks loudly for gays, lesbians (http://www.projo.com/news/content/School_Observance_04-26-08_U19TQTK_v15.35793a1.html)
~~~

An afterthought: They think God is unseen, this is the crux of the problem.

The crux of all problem for that matter.

[BlueGirl]

I can't imagine what we could possibly say or do to change their thinking that we haven't already said or done. I don't mean to sound negative but we have to face reality. There's a lot of people who don't like anyone who's gay and who never will no matter what we say or do or how much some of us contribute to society.
Just look at how some (a lot?) of white people still feel about blacks and other people of color. Maybe I'm wrong (I hope I am) but the more experience that I have with people in general, the more convinced I am that the majority of people who hate someone because of the color of their skin, their religion, their sexual orientation, or anything else that's different from them, are not likely to change. I guess it’s easier to go on being ignorant and hating than it would be to make the effort to change.

And don’t forget, there’s homophobia in our own community. I don’t understand how that can be but I’m sure most of you would agree that it does exist. Some gay people hate themselves and anyone else who's gay.
In another section on this site, I told about an incident with a certain woman who I think (I don’t know it to be a fact) is gay. We weren’t well acquainted but grew up in the same neighborhood and knew of each other. Seeing me at my aunt’s funeral, she came up to me and starting talking. She was very friendly and told me about a tea that was going to be held for people who went to school where we did. I was very glad she told me about it and I looked forward to going. Meanwhile, I decided to send her a short letter telling her it was nice talking with her and to thank her for telling me about that. Since I’d been trying for sometime to find women to be friends with, to pal around with, I mentioned that and told her what some of my interests were and to give me a call if she was interested. I don’t remember what all I said but I do know that I didn’t say anything that anyone, gay or heterosexual, should have been offended by or taken to mean anything but an offer of possible friendship. Not only did she not respond to the letter but when I saw her at the tea, she didn’t even speak. I have seen her twice since then and she has let on both times like she didn’t know me. The last time, she even turned her head away when I walked by. :confused: :confused: Whatever her reason for not speaking, it almost certainly has to be due to some kind of fear on her part. Either she’s afraid someone will think she’s gay if she’s seen speaking to a known lesbian or else she was afraid I was asking her for “a date” or “coming onto her”. Since nothing could have been farther from my mind, nothing I said indicated that.

So if we gay people jump to wrong conclusions and don’t trust each other, how can we expect heterosexuals to understand and trust us?

BlueGirl

[tpdncr4christ]

Isn't this what the day is for?

My understanding of the Day of Silence is that we all go to school and do something (preferably symbolic like staying silenced) to unnerve people at school to get them to think about stuff. It's both respect to those folks who have been bullied and a way of saying, "We are here!" I am, slightly, grateful to the parents of these kids who are pulling their kids from school because I think that it shows the rest of the country how much ignorance and hatred there is. One of the comments said that at least the day was working, all of the parents of the bullies had pulled their kids out of school.

I think that we need to have such a negative response, I think we need people to be disgusted by this, because clearly it isn't disgusting. We need a small handful of folks to pull there kids out of class to show the world how ignorant they are, to publicize their hatred, because if the world doesn't see it the world won't care. The world needs to see the hatred before anything substantial is going to happen about it. So, as sad as it is, I believe it is necessary.

[Zerbie]

Excellent point Austin, you're right - it's better to have your adversary we you can see 'im, and leave them the freedom to expose themselves rather than us pointing fingers.

Blue: Of course some people will never make the effort to change. What mystifies me is that they would object to silent, peaceful, recognition of the tragedy of harassment and violence - violence that MURDERS CHILDREN. How can anyone in good conscience object to that?? That is what mystifies me so.

And the other thing that is upsetting me so much is the apparent lack of ability to comprehend reading material evidenced by many of the comments. Plus the willingness of apparently poorly educated parents to pull their children out of school - they devalue the educational process all round. One commenter even mentioned that schools should just be teaching the standardized tests. Do they want their children to be ignorant? Apparently they want their children non-competitive in a global market so they can wallow in a fantasy life that demonized the rest of the world, and gays in particular, rather than achieve anything in life.

The problem goes way beyond homophobia, as there are numerous other problematic elements mixed in. How do we even begin to solve these?

Emp, I've been thinking of you and your analyses a lot lately. Thanks for weighing in.

[tymejumper]

Wow, ignorance is rampant in that community. Heck, who am I joshing, it's rampant in every comminuty. I don't know even what to say about that type of thing. I am sorry Zerbie that you have to live in Arizonia.

Obviously, people DO still care about being gay or else they would not have gone out of their way to pull their children out of school and make a big deal about it. It was simply a show of respect by not speaking in honor of not being able to be who you are.

A lot of straight people do participate in it. My teen who is straight went to the website and printed off cards and also passed them to her friends. She was not bothered at all that day. Also, I would be tempted to put in into words they could comprehend there. Do they participate in Christmas? how about for anti-abortion rights? Do they talk about their religion there at all? Well why should other peoples children be subjected to all that? After all, they may be Jewish, pro choice or Hindu. Should they not take their children out of school on those particular days also? That's what I would wonder I guess

[Pablo Rafael]

I agree with Austin; the more of this type of publicity there is, the better. It shows how ridiculous and illogical the rabid anti-gay forces are.

When I was still in my anti-gay days, I would listen to the arguments people made against LGBT individuals. Even at that time it struck me that the homophobic crowd didn't act or think in a logical manner.

Back then I was listening to a debate on the radio between an Christian right anti-gay couple and a couple supporting gay rights. (I think it was Christian radio too) The homophobic argument made no sense. They started off with, "The gays want rights. But we have right not to be exposed to gay people." Someone has a right to get rid of other people just beacause they don't want to be around them? :confused: The next thing was, "If we allow gay marrigage, we will have to allow people to get married to their dogs and cats." How do those two items have any connection? That argument sounded particularly pathetic to me. (Just for the record. I love the dog dearly, but I'm not the least interested in marrying her. I plan on marrying someone who doesn't shed so much.) Then the Christian-right couple started spouting Bible verses, but that line of reasoning didn't carry much weight either. The whole debate left me with the impression that the homophobic forces were just grasping at straws and had no real basis for their arguments. The couple speaking for gay rights was calm, rational and well educated. The Christian-right couple was increasingly more hostile as the debate went on.

Anyway, my point is this. The more ridiculous the actions of these people, the better it is for fairness ane equality. Young people today are increasingly turning away from the homophobic thinking of the Christian right.

[matthewspeed]

Pablo,

I,too, would rather not marry my pets. I have cats and they shed too much - plus, they are not declawed. Not very romantic! :)

[BlueGirl]

[QUOTE=Zerbie;55157]

Blue: Of course some people will never make the effort to change. What mystifies me is that they would object to silent, peaceful, recognition of the tragedy of harassment and violence - violence that MURDERS CHILDREN. How can anyone in good conscience object to that?? That is what mystifies me so. QUOTE]

Zerbie, I don't know what kind of a place you live in or what kind of people you're used to being around but it must be different from what I'm used to. How fortunate you must be.
I don't understand how people can be like that either, but it certainly doesn't surprise me because I've been seeing that mentality for a long time. It's nothing new.
You think and reason as people SHOULD, but unfortunately, not everyone does and I don't think those kind of people do. I don't belive they see children as gay or gay people as children. They only see "gay", something they hate. The ones who talk about gays being out to get their children, don't realize that a lot of those children ARE gay. I guess it's something they can't comprehend.
If I understand their mindset correctly, people like that think it's ok, maybe even doing something for society (anybody remember the bumper sticker, "kill a queer for Christ"), to beat up on or rid society of people like that (gays) even if the gay people happen to be children. After all, gay children grow up to be adult gay people. Hitler had no problem with killing children did he? They were Jewish and that's all that mattered to him.
The KKK had no problem killing children. They were black and that's all that mattered to them.

I don't understand how anyone can be that evil either but I know there are plenty of evil people that do exist. I have neighbors (two houses side by side - parents, children, and grandchildren) who fit the description of evil. In my opinion, they are sociopaths at best. They are ignorant, uneducated scum who have no morals that you can notice and who care nothing about the feelings of animals, other people, or the environment. I have heard them cuss their little daughter (she's in jr. high now) many times. The f word is their favorite. About a month ago they brought another one into the world and I guess it will go through the same thing.
When I was growing up, there were all different people living around us then.
Most of them were good, decent people, but they're all gone. A lot of what lives around us now is nothing but trash, evil trash. Some of them live in nice houses but they're still ignorant trash. I'm not being violent. I'm just stating facts.

You're welcome to visit me if you'd like and I'll show you around. We'll go up town and you and your mate can walk down the street hand in hand or with your arms around each other and see what kind of reactions we get. Then we'll go out to one of the stores where I used to work, the one where I was liked until they found out I was gay, then the harassment started. Some of my coworkers even passed the word on to some of the customers and "warned" new hires about me. They even warned the men. :confused:

One evening about a year or so ago, I was finishing up some work down in back of the house when a dirt bag that I didn't even know existed, who was delivering a local ad paper, hollared at me as he went by, "You fucking queer!". He didn't know me either but I guess someone who knows me or of me told him that a queer lives here. The way I was dressed, with a hood over my head, he couldn't see what I looked like. He could have just as well been hollaring at my mother but I guess it didn't matter.

Now that's the kind of cmmunity I live in so, no, none of those ignorant hate-filled comments surprise me at all. I'd be surprised if the high school here would even allow a DOS. It seems that ignorace and hate is alive and well all over this worderful land of "liberty and justice for all".

BlueGirl