kethoneth passim

[keltic63]

I heard some talk about transgender issues on a podcast, and the guest Peterson Toscano (http://www.petersontoscano.com/) mentioned that the Hebrew word used for Joseph's coat of many colors also is used to refer to the garments that the King's virgin daughters wore. He also has a new play titled "Transfigurations--Transgressing Gender in the Bible"

kethoneth would refer to the garment
passim describes the colors

Looking at the description of Joseph's personality, how he spent his time, and the nature of this garment, it seems a good argument could be made for Joseph to be gender non-conforming. Transgender? maybe. Toscano makes the plea for gay people to not steal this as a "gay character." It also seems to make sense that Jacob (momma's boy?) would favor his son Joseph for this very reason.

There's more to talk about, but I'd love to hear more about this particular Hebrew word and the implication it has on whether Joseph could have been a transgendered person.

[RedneckDyke]

I read somewhere that the "coat of many colors" was a mistranslation and that it was supposed to read "coat with long sleeves."

I don't know that a gay man would would wear a coat of many colors. Wouldn't they clash?:D

I like the old Dolly Parton song "Coat of many colors"

[keltic63]

bump.


c'mon, language enthusiasts! :rolleyes:

[andrewlittle]

bump.


c'mon, language enthusiasts! :rolleyes:


Unfortunately the "many colors" or the King James version, the "richly ornamented" of the NIV and the "long sleeves" of the NRSV are all suppositions.

k'tonet is the word used in Gen 37:3, and is assumed to be a variation of kuttonet, which means "long tunic or shirt-like garment".

pasiym is the word in Gen 37:3 that has been supposed to have a variety of meanings (see above), but there is no repeat except for Gen 37:23, 32 (about Joseph, but with the definite article attached at the front - hapasiym) and 2 Sam 13:18 (about Tamar's clothing). It's meaning here is derived more from whimsy than known fact, and you'll see the same variations in translation in the Tamar passage. Of course, there it doesn't possess the stuff of legend.

The word is assumed to mean "the flat of the hand or foot" or "tunic reaching to palms or soles", but that is based on it's presumed root, pas, which means "palm of the hand." The link to and meaning of pas is also an assumption, however, since pas appears only once in the Hebrew scriptures - not enough to give a clear meaning in context. It is assumed to have this meaning because it is similar (?) to pasas - an old Hittite word thought to mean "palm".

So, there! And you wonder why an old language geek didn't want to spoil your fun by answering, huh?

[keltic63]

So, there! And you wonder why an old language geek didn't want to spoil your fun by answering, huh?

nope, I had already heard some of those arguments ;) I wanted someone with some reliable knowledge to bring it up.











but you'll do.