Hello My Name is Dylans Mom

[dylansmom]

I'm also known as Adrienne. I found this site by accident while searching for something else on line about homosexuality and twins, and am so glad to have found this site:)

I have a 16 year old son who is gay. He came out to me the day after his 14th birthday telling me he was bi after that his interest was more in other boys his age, so when he told me a year later that he was gay it came as no suprise.

We live in a small rural town in west Central Florida, and to be a gay teen here isn't easy (here's where I brag;)), but that doesn't deter my son from being who he is. He is proud of who he is, with good reason, he's an exceptional artist, a A student, caring etc. My son doesn't hide, he answers questions even when they're being sarcastically asked. In his own way I think he feels that being who he is may change people misconceptions.

I have raised all 3 of my children away from church, but with what I hoped would be a strong belief in God. My daughter and other son believe, but Dylan doesn't. My personal opinion may be the reason he doesn't believe is the way most churches view homosexuality.

He recently had an episode with an "adult" at a local church that has a youth group for our community, the kids all get together and hang out, and 1/2 way through one of the adults will get up and talk about the bible for about 15 min. and one of these times, he talked about how homosexuality is a sin and an abomination. Both of my sons as well as some of the other teens say this "adult" was looking directly at my son as he was speaking. Dylan waited until this part was over, and walked home, with in minutes other kids walked out, and made sure that he was okay. I of course was enraged that someone would do this to a kid in church, in front of his peers, but not Dylan, he told me to calm down. The next week he went back as if nothing had ever happened. What strength.

I have added this site to my sons favorites with hopes that he will read through and realise that God doesn't judge him narrow minded people do.

[Donny]

What if this Bible teacher was just being honest about what the Bible says about same-gender sex acts? The people that hold the bible as being unsupportive of same-gender sex have the right to do so, without being "judged" as being bad people. I'm raising children too, and I wouldn't want Christians to alter scripture to approve behaviors in my children that the Bible clearly define as things not to do. Your son has the rights to his own choices, but so do others. Are there not other places he could go for a religious experience? Trying to argue or debate this Church teacher and its teachings would be inappropriate don't you think?

[Jamie McDaniel]

What if this Bible teacher was just being honest about what the Bible says about same-gender sex acts?

if a=c and b=c then a=b.

Man laying with man = "abomination"
Eating shrimp or bacon = "abomination"*
Man laying with man = Eating shrimp or bacon

Seriously, the problem is not teaching what the Bible reads, it is the taking of some passages and then using them to support one's prejudices. Donny, I imagine you would agree that one of the situations below is acceptable and one is not:


Christian adult: Children, the bible reads "slave obey your master" in Ephesians 6:5, so (looking at the one black child) when we study church history and slaveholding christians, we shouldn't judge them.

Christian adult: Children, the bible reads "slave obey your master" in Ephesians 6:5, and that verse was used in the past to justify the sin of slavery. But we know that God's work is about setting the captive free and...


So yes, teach what the bible reads, but be careful.

The people that hold the bible as being unsupportive of same-gender sex have the right to do so, without being "judged" as being bad people.

Soulforce challenges us to believe that people who hold onto antigay teachings are just misinformed, and that when presented with the correct information, will (in a little time) come around. When it comes to Dobson, Tony Perkins, and other long time antigay folks, well, it gets trickier.

I'm raising children too, and I wouldn't want Christians to alter scripture to approve behaviors in my children that the Bible clearly define as things not to do. You remember that movie The Sixth Sense that had the twist ending where you find out that what you thought isn't so, and then they show you flashbacks to make it all clear. Well, that is the way the church's struggle with this is going to go down. We find out that the teaching of discrimination against gays is what is the unacceptable behavior.

*I'm a vegetarian, so maybe I should actually be advocating those verses that read eating shrimp and bacon is an abomination (and stressing the abomination part). :x

[Jamie McDaniel]

I see we have moved the discussion with Donny to the foyer. Here's the link to the thread where that conversation can continue.

www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4900 (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4900)

(foyer access required, see here (http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3846).)

We now return your thread to you dylansmom. :) And welcome to Soulforce, by the way!

[Zerbie]

What if this Bible teacher was just being honest about what the Bible says about same-gender sex acts? The people that hold the bible as being unsupportive of same-gender sex have the right to do so, without being "judged" as being bad people. I'm raising children too, and I wouldn't want Christians to alter scripture to approve behaviors in my children that the Bible clearly define as things not to do. Your son has the rights to his own choices, but so do others. Are there not other places he could go for a religious experience? Trying to argue or debate this Church teacher and its teachings would be inappropriate don't you think?

The situation described involved an adult looking a child in the eye telling him he is an 'abomination'?! That is abuse, and it is sick.
How can you condone doing it to anyone, let alone a child?

[Gennee]

Welcome to Soulforce, Adrienne. I admire you for accepting Dylan as he is. He's an exceptional young man who through his life will change perceptions about gay people. I love how he reacted when singled out by that"adult". Very Christ-like. The response by his friends is to be commended. Thank you for your wonderful post.

Gennee

:love::rainbow::wave::love:

[Gennee]

I'd like to make a couple of points First, browbeating never won any converts to Christ. In fact the total opposite. That's one reason why many LBTQ people reject God, the bible, and Christianity. The bible teacher does have his opinion and I respect that. Putting someone else down, by implication or downright hatred is very unChrist like.

Second, as a transgender person who discovered it only three years ago, this was something that I did not choose. This was always within me. Many gay and lesbian people have expressed the same thing to me personally. In Matthew 19, Jesus states that some eunuchs were born the way they are. Many still believe that being gay is all about sex and that is not the case. Many of my gay and lesbian friends are loving, caring, and creative people who are productive and contribute to the good of mankind.

Gennee

[Zerbie]

Adrienne,

Thank you for your post. :):love::) Welcome to the forum.

You have a wonderful son, obviously. Dave (Udog) is correct - you did a lot of things right by him, and he is so lucky to have a mom like you. :)

If your son takes a look around the forum, tell him from us that we'd be delighted if he popped in to say 'hi.'
:)

[dylansmom]

For the warm welcome. I will be sure to tell Dylan to check this all out. I do keep working on Dylan to have faith, and I'm sure somewhere down the line he will find it, I also feel that this may be a good place for him to search it out a little, and be educated.

Donny, I fully agree with you that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and belief. I certainly wasn't judging him for his belief, I was angry that he singled out 1 person, I would have been upset if he had done it to any of the other kids as well. I've known the majority of these kids their whole lives. What if he had done it to a teen age girl who'd had a child out of wed lock, would he have directed a teaching towards her as well?

As my sons parent I of course was enraged, not because of this persons opinion, but that he singled him out so intentionally. I don't expect anyone to change the bible to fit each individuals need, but at least to adhere to the love and not judging part.

Just a side note here, my child did not chose to be gay, it is part of who he is, and not all of who he is.

[Zerbie]

Talk about your examples of gracious behavior. There's one. No wonder Dylan turned out so great.

[pnggrad79]

Adrienne,
The most loving thing you can do to your son is to love him just like he is, born of your flesh and your bones, your DNA, your blood, everything is from you. It wasn't your fault, nor his decision, it was inborn in him, something he acquired in utero. My mom, who hasn't and probably will never accept my lesbian nature, wrote me a note inside my birthday card that said, "I love you, but I wil never approve of your lifestyle and you most certainly will stand before God someday and answer for it. You are flesh of my flesh and I love you. Happy Birthday."
I applaud any parent loving enough to put aside their assumptions and preconcieved notions of their gay children and accept and love who they are. I believe my mother only loves what she has conceived in her head about me. She doesn't love me, or doesn't love me for me. Maybe that will change, but not likely.
Dylan is truly blessed to have you and your support and love. Please don't ever back down or withdraw it. It means the world to him. God bless you and keep you and Dylan safe, as well as your other children.:)

[dylansmom]

I am so sorry your Mom feels that way. I guess I am the lucky one, I've never had a problem with homosexuality or anything of the sort. I suppose it has to do with the influences in my life. I had a favorite male cousin who I adore, and when I was 12 I found out he was gay, and not quite understanding it, he was smart enough answer any questions I asked. I say had, because he is now a woman. A couple of years later I was lucky enough to have an older gay man become one of my best friends. He explained to me that it wasn't a choice, it is who he is, this was how he was born. I only wish that all parents would just love their kids for who they are.
You never know, she may come to some enlightenment (HUG)

[dyln]

Well... I'm Dylan. :) adrienne's son.
My mom had told me about this message board and said it was something i should look into.
garsh, i have no idea what to say..
I love my mom very much. i know that she will always be there and she's been so loving ever since i first came out. I think its a lil rediculous how parents can be. I have several friends that have decided to come out to their parents and the outcomes havent been too great. One of them has be grounded, another disowned, the third- his father practically pokes fun at the issue and doubts his masculinity. I think a lot of parents dont think of how it was before the 'kid' came out. How their child was soo happy, how they did in school, what their sports were, who they'd have sleepovers with... They forget that this kind innocent person that they loved soo dearly is still their child. that this 'monstrosity' is still their flesh, their hard work, their heir. (lol). I guess the best possible outlook for our generation to do is to try and fix it. Kids now are surely a lot more comfortable with the ideas of alternate sexualities, but the harassment is still there. Since 7th grade i've had numerous threats, and i am lucky, no one has ever tried to hurt me, but i know for some that isnt the case. A change should be done, its a revolutionizing idea. Small town USA isnt ever easy, and quite frankly, i'm getting out of it ASAP. someplace more accepting seems more adequate, although making a change does seem more appealing. Maybe later, when i've finished becoming famous (everyone's dream) i'll come back to where i live, and make it all "better" although as difficult as it sounds. Uhm. (as my mom is hovering over my shoulder) lol... she brought up the fact that i dont particulaly believe in god. There is a reason, and its isnt just because of the church saying its wrong... I honestly think that we, humans, are animals like all the other creatures on earth... i think that because we are so advanced (eventhough we smoke cigarettes when all other animals know smoke means danger) that we feel we must have an explanation for everything, that religion i whatever form is an explanation for our existance. Some people think that we've come from monkies, others from god. i really am going to sit and wait, see which argument wins. Phew.

I think i'm done. etc etc.


Dyln.

[keltic63]

Dyln!

Thanks for stopping by and introducing yourself. we're glad to have you here. obviously your mother is very proud of you, and now I can see why. I have 3 kids of my own (from when I was pretending to be straight and married to a woman) you remind me of the qualities I see in my own kids, and that's a good thing.

[Zerbie]

Hi Dylan!

Welcome, great to hear from ya! You have a lot of things figured out already (that's good.)

I find there's more too it with that God-stuff, though. No question about that one, DESPITE the churches, but it's definitely not some old guy in a robe, though. :rolleyes::disagree: Sitting in a chair, on a cloud. . . right. :rolleyes: :lol:

Okay, sorry folks, I'll stop. :p

[daddyDA]

Your Son is just fantastic & it makes me so proud to read your post about him !
What a very lucky Lad he is to have a Mom like yourself. Your openess & support are shining examples to him.
I am married & have two Sons. My Wife & I have always vowed to support them for who they are & allow them to develop into the people God made them to be...
I was so glad to read how your Son's friends show their concern for him when he walked out.
I am reading Mel White's 'Stranger At The Gate' at the moment. What a fantastic book, so glad that he quotes the words of Dr King, one of my own childhood heroes. His sruggle is by no means over & I am dertermined to fight against the sort of intolerance shown by others in the Christian Church.
God bless you both, from daddyDA here in the UK.

[Zerbie]

What a great post, thanks D!! :love:

[tymejumper]

What if this Bible teacher was just being honest about what the Bible says about same-gender sex acts? The people that hold the bible as being unsupportive of same-gender sex have the right to do so, without being "judged" as being bad people. I'm raising children too, and I wouldn't want Christians to alter scripture to approve behaviors in my children that the Bible clearly define as things not to do. Your son has the rights to his own choices, but so do others. Are there not other places he could go for a religious experience? Trying to argue or debate this Church teacher and its teachings would be inappropriate don't you think?


No, as another parent raising children, I do not think it would be inappropriate to debate and argue teachings of the Bible. Look at the New Testament, Jesus actually debated and argued the churches teachings and physically threw out the preachers from the church. And if there is one thing I do know, it is that Jesus said not ONE thing about homosexuality. I consider it to be brain washing tactics that the church uses to convince people that it's not appropriate to debate Bible teachings.

I am raising MY children better than that. I am raising them to think for themselves and not rely on others to ok who they are. I would be very ashamed of my children if they did NOT debate such a hateful, and misunderstood passage in the bible.

I would ask you this, do you and your children wear fabric of 2 different fabrics? It says not to do that either, it's an abomination and is CLEARLY outlined in the Bible not to do.

[tymejumper]

For the warm welcome. I will be sure to tell Dylan to check this all out. I do keep working on Dylan to have faith, and I'm sure somewhere down the line he will find it, I also feel that this may be a good place for him to search it out a little, and be educated.

Donny, I fully agree with you that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and belief. I certainly wasn't judging him for his belief, I was angry that he singled out 1 person, I would have been upset if he had done it to any of the other kids as well. I've known the majority of these kids their whole lives. What if he had done it to a teen age girl who'd had a child out of wed lock, would he have directed a teaching towards her as well?

As my sons parent I of course was enraged, not because of this persons opinion, but that he singled him out so intentionally. I don't expect anyone to change the bible to fit each individuals need, but at least to adhere to the love and not judging part.

Just a side note here, my child did not chose to be gay, it is part of who he is, and not all of who he is.



Welcome DylansMom. I also have a 16 year old and they are just that, still children. I read that he was singled out in your post and it really made me mad. My poor wife had to hear all about it!:rolleyes: You tell him to hang in there and there is not ONE thing wrong with him. You will find on this post that there are many of us, myself included, that have really struggled with faith and being comfortable with ourselves as gay people. I am so glad that he has a great and supportive mother that will make all the difference in the world! God Bless,

Rebekah

[daddyDA]

I think it is perfectly correct to debate this kind of mis-interpretation of the Bible.
As Mel White states in his book, for a very long time the mainstream Christian Churches would not admit those who had been divorced to full membership. Not that I agree with that line but it would be easily possible to construe this from scripture on a casual reading. (Indeed, Jesus himself only seems to mention Adultery as an exception.)
However, there are few mainstreams Churches now that will not admit divorced people to full & sacramental membership.

If this sort of thing is not confronted, how long will Lesbian, Gay & Transgender people be forced to live in the shadows & unable to obtain full acceptance within the body of Christ? (I of course do know that there are Churches where this happens freely & I thank God that they exisit but, as a mainstream Christian, I am ver saddened that there are those who deny fellowship to LGBT people.)

It also strikes me that there is more to this kind of prejudice than meets the eye. It always seems that those who preach this sort of stuff are very interested in manipulation & control. (Sure there are just those wh are mis-led & those who have never questioned what comes from their pulpits) but there are those with a more sinister agenda.

I think again of a passage in Mel's book where he reminds us that it was Hitler & his Brown Shirts who began by demanding laws that removed the civil rights of Gay people & sought to prevent abortion. The Jerry Falwells & the Moral Majority of this world walk dangerously close to this line &, for this reason, mainstream Christians need to stand with LGBT people.

[tdogg]

Welcome Adrienne and Dylan! What an awesome mom you are Adrienne, and Dylan, you are a bright star. I'm really glad both of you found your way here, and are sharing.

Welcome to the forums and I hope you both are in it for the long run. It's been great reading this thread! :D:love:

Tdogg

[BruceChris]

In my life, I have not found it at all worthwhile trying to learn any clear and consistent messages from the Bible. The Bible is just not organized that way most of the time, and there are just too many translations and interpretations of the Bible out there to be sure that you are coming away with a clear truth.

I do most of my serious Bible study by reading books about the Bible that are written by serious Biblical scholars and theologians. My preferences run to more liberal scholars, but in any case, reading anything about the Bible or Christianity that has clearly been written by someone who is angry, judgmental, or who seems to be out to condemn or persecute any one group of people, otherwise referred to as *Sinners*, is not someone that I would read.

As a starting point, I would recommend "Rescuing the Bible from fundamentalism: A bishop rethinks the meaning of scripture." by bishop John Shelby Spong. As a matter of fact,I would recommend any book by Spong, and he has written at least 14, that my library has.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Donny]

"Test all things and hold firmly onto the truth." The Apostles believed in making choices for yourself. They presented their case for Christ. They learned it from Christ Jesus. Take it as they delivered it or reject it. That is what freedom is all about. I posted a reply today in the Foyer. The true beauty of Christians is in the freedom of denominations and individual congregations. It's amazing how many different Churches believe the same thing. Too bad that so many are being threatened today by legislation to live as secularists do or face secular legal consequences.

[tdogg]

" They presented their case for Christ. They learned it from Christ Jesus. Take it as they delivered it or reject it. That is what freedom is all about.

Nothing 'freedom' in one's way or the highway. There are only 2 options in that, there is no freedom.

Jesus told us the truth would set us free. And what I learned from my life's journey and from my spiritual beliefs, and my belief in Jesus and his teachings? The truth is love. And that has truly set me free. I made a choice to accept myself, love myself and follow my heart. What I found was, Jesus did not abandon me. He did not reject or punish me. I have been blessed more than I could ever imagine. I have felt the freedom Jesus was talking about. Freedom from fear, freedom from hate, freedom from restrictions other human's would impose.

Jesus' truth, in love, is worth more than what any human would tell me what or what not to do according to their own personal belief.

[christa08]

Hello Dylan and Adrienne :]

I was really touched by this thread because I could see what an amazing relationship the two you have. Adrienne, you remind me so much of my mom and I honestly think my mom is so strong, brave, and wonderful. She is such an inspiration and I can guarantee you that Dylan sees you the same way and you should know that you're a rare kind of mother and give yourself a pat on the back. :love: