The "Church" of Scientology's Anti-Gay views and Human Rights Abuses

[PokeAnon]

For the past 4 months I have been part of the collective known as "Anonymous" which has been peacefully protesting against the unethical and criminal abuses perpetrated by the "Church" of Scientology (CoS).

The more I read about Scientology, the more disgusted I get with them. Last month I learned that they claim to be able to "cure" being gay, as attested to by former CoS member Michael Pattinson. Aside from this reprehensible practice, they also consider homosexuals to be completely without ethics or morality.

Within Scientology there is a measure of a person’s wellness and their level of moral competency (with higher numbers equating more ethical actions). 1.5 in this scale encompasses those who threaten and rape. Homosexuals are labeled 1.1; lower than rapists. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of the Church of Scientology said "Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized; for here is the level of the contagion of immorality, and the destruction of ethics...No social order which desires to survive dares overlook its stratum 1.1's. No social order will survive which does not remove these people from its midst."

Furthermore, according to Scientology practices, continued contact with anyone they deem unethical will stunt a church member’s spiritual advancement, and may even cause them physical harm. In a recent interview, actor Jason Beghe has said that the Church of Scientology blamed a life threatening car accident he was in on Beghe’s continued friendship with a gay man.

This is obscenely bigoted and outright false even on first glance. To make matters worse the CoS also claims to be compatible with any sexual preference of lifestyle choices. I think all sorts of bigotry based on sexual orientation is horrible, but to deceive one's own members on the very belief system they practice is just disgusting.

There is unfortunately a LOT more information on the CoS and their abuses. I would hate to flood all of you good people with too much information all at once.

The following is my favorite video on basic introduction to Anonymous:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4dcig_road-to-february-10-2008-final-vers_politics

I must warn that the Anonymous culture is crass and full of slurs of all sorts. This is not at all intended to be hateful in any way, it is just some strange sense of humor which has originated in order to push taboos to the extreme. In fact, despite use of terms like "f*ggot" in my own local Anonymous affiliate at very least 35% of all members are either homosexual or bisexual.

I look forward to your questions and further involvement will all of you :)

[Pablo Rafael]

I must confess that I am not very well aquainted with many details about the church of Scientology even though I worked right across the street from its headquarters in LA. (A hideous blue-painted building).

I know that there are many levels of Scientology and a person must work to ever higher levels. Working up the ladder is very expensive. "Religions" that require people to spend money and are founded and run by one person or small group always make me nervous.

Is Scientology a large group? I always assumed it had just a few followers.

[PokeAnon]

I must confess that I am not very well aquainted with many details about the church of Scientology even though I worked right across the street from its headquarters in LA. (A hideous blue-painted building).

I know that there are many levels of Scientology and a person must work to ever higher levels. Working up the ladder is very expensive. "Religions" that require people to spend money and are founded and run by one person or small group always make me nervous.

Is Scientology a large group? I always assumed it had just a few followers.

In terms of actual numbers of Scientology Parishoners it is very tricky to pin down a number. CoS lies so often it'd make your head spin, and they most certainly lie about their numbers. They regularly claim to have over 8 million members worldwide, however there is nothing even remotely similar to that in terms of census results. Math is not my forte, so take my estimate with a few pounds of salt, but my guess would be they have somewhere between 1 and 2 million members.

The real danger to the general public is not their numbers as much as it is their wealth. As you mentioned, they operate like a business, charging for courses and materials to advance in their faith. They are however classified as a relgious organization and are therefore tax exempt in the United States. The deal they cut with the IRS to get this status is very shady.

Furthermore their influences can be seen in far more places than one might think, including several front groups, which act as "charities" but in reality do very little except to promote the agenda of the "Church" of Scientology. Some of these larger groups include: Narconon, The Citizens Commission on Human Rights, Criminon, and WISE (not the potato chips).

The issue with these, and many other of their so called "charitable" organizations is they frequently target people in vulnerable situations in need of help, and attempt to get more members into the CoS. If you ever see a "Free Stress Test" table on the streets, that is Scientology attempting to recruit.

[antiochian]

I have studied many religions, but $cientology is something I know little about. It simply doesn't interest me. I remember watching an episode of 48 Hours or some similar program which featured the "church" and some of the things it did to its own members--scary. Funny how this group attracts all sorts of Hollywood types.

[RedneckDyke]

I have seen stuff on TV and in the news about them. About how they send people to boot camps to do manual labor if they aren't good enough. I heard they have cruises where bigwigs get star treatment while the backsliders are also aboard and do the scut work. I dont know if this is true though.

If I wanted to be in a religion founded by a sci-fi novelist I think I'd rather have Ray Bradbury or Heinlein. Anybody but L Ron Hubbord.

[PokeAnon]

I have studied many religions, but $cientology is something I know little about. It simply doesn't interest me. I remember watching an episode of 48 Hours or some similar program which featured the "church" and some of the things it did to its own members--scary. Funny how this group attracts all sorts of Hollywood types.

The "Church" of Scientology doesn't really "attract" Hollywood types, it hunts them down. They have "churches" called "Celebrity Centers" which are there specifically for celebrity members. Ex-Scientologists have publicly said that they were literally given lists of celebs to get to join, and then were told to get them involved. I can't think of any true religions which openly hunt for celebrities.

I have seen stuff on TV and in the news about them. About how they send people to boot camps to do manual labor if they aren't good enough. I heard they have cruises where bigwigs get star treatment while the backsliders are also aboard and do the scut work. I dont know if this is true though.

If I wanted to be in a religion founded by a sci-fi novelist I think I'd rather have Ray Bradbury or Heinlein. Anybody but L Ron Hubbord.

In short: The "Church" of Scientology is much worse than you think.

Their doctrine is discriminatory based on race, sexual orientation and gender. They suppress the free speech rights of their critics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout), they tear families apart (http://www.videosift.com/video/Road-to-April-12th-scientology-protest-video ), they deny their memebers proper psychiatric and medical care, in some instances leading to death (www.whyaretheydead.net), exploit the mentally disabled and the emotionally unstable with their front groups (DAN! and Narconon), and they force labor on both their adult and child parishoners in the RPF and EPF (http://youtube.com/watch?v=X1kMONflsNs).

If I had to recomend a single video series to watch, by the end of the following video I was openly crying, and knew absolutely for sure I was doing the right thing fighting against the CoS:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bZYGE5jx6VI

I urge you to do research on this attrocious group, if only to protect yourselves and your loved ones. I would of course love to have more people involved in our worldwide pickets, but all in all I just want people to stop getting hurt by their abusive policies.

I truly appreciate the questions. CoS tries with all its might to suppress information, and we as Anonymous believe that knowledge is free. Both groups understand that knowledge is empowering.

[Rick336]

If I wanted to be in a religion founded by a sci-fi novelist I think I'd rather have Ray Bradbury or Heinlein.

Yes. That would be cool.

Or what about a religion founded by George Lucas where we could be storm troopers in outer space and fight the dark side of the force with laser guns?

And James Dobson could be Darth Vader.

Rick

[scott snedeker]

Yes. That would be cool.

Or what about a religion founded by George Lucas where we could be storm troopers in outer space and fight the dark side of the force with laser guns?

And James Dobson could be Darth Vader.

Rick

I fear it would come out Space Balls with this bunch :lol::lol:

[PokeAnon]

Though this is not related to Scientology, this put a big smile on my face:

http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=8344404

The gents in the Guy Fawkes masks are both part of Anonymous. If Westboro Baptist were to show up in my neck of the woods I'd gladly do the same.

Sorry to derail my own thread, but I thought this might give a little idea of how Anonymous feels about bigotry :D

Back on topic!

[antiochian]

Bigotry is evil whomever espouses it--Scientologists, Baptists, Catholics, or communists. Funny that communists and nazis were against gays--given their own immorality, what qualified them to judge what is moral (the former not even drawing on religion)?? Sorry, I totally took this thread off track now. :)

[Zerbie]

Yes. That would be cool.

Or what about a religion founded by George Lucas where we could be storm troopers in outer space and fight the dark side of the force with laser guns?

And James Dobson could be Darth Vader.

Rick

I call dibs on Yoda!!!! :p:p

Yoda am I.

[pnggrad79]

Well if the likes of Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley and John Travolta are toeing the party line of Scientology, I refuse to go to their movies. Cruise and Travolta are two of my favorite actors, but I will not support two adherents of this vitriolic religion and have my money indirectly supporting it.

[RedneckDyke]

I looked at some of the videos on youtube and read some of the reports and testimonials. I read one where they made people work on a ship scraping and painting and stuff. They imprisoned people in the ship's chain locker. This is a small hold in the ship's bow section where the anchor chain is stored. I used to be a merchant sailor. We had to paint in the chain locker once. We rotated people through every five minutes so they wouldn't die from the heat and fumes. Ships' bulkheads and decks are made of steel. It is hot as hell in a chain locker and there is no ventilation to speak of. Anybody who would put small children in a chain locker is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

[PokeAnon]

I looked at some of the videos on youtube and read some of the reports and testimonials. I read one where they made people work on a ship scraping and painting and stuff. They imprisoned people in the ship's chain locker. This is a small hold in the ship's bow section where the anchor chain is stored. I used to be a merchant sailor. We had to paint in the chain locker once. We rotated people through every five minutes so they wouldn't die from the heat and fumes. Ships' bulkheads and decks are made of steel. It is hot as hell in a chain locker and there is no ventilation to speak of. Anybody who would put small children in a chain locker is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

This is EXACTLY why I go out of my way to make people aware of the "Church" of Scientology. I encourage everyone here to look do some reading or watch some videos, then tell everyone you know. This is a criminal organization which acts on the guise of religion, and call its critics hate mongers and religious bigots. The irony would be hilarious if not for all the people they continue to hurt with their abusive policies.

If you are not willing to join us on protest dates (the next is June 14th) I implore you to spend half an hour doing some research and spreading the truth about the actions of CoS.

[Zerbie]

I have always suspected that this Scientology is a cult of some kind. Ya see them around from time to time offering 'stress tests.' They wave a clipboard and offer me a stress test and I just tell them, No thanks, I don't have any stress.

Last I heard, and this may be mis-representative so clear it up if so, but I heard they had declared Tom Cruise is God, or something like that.
:confused:

[PokeAnon]

I have always suspected that this Scientology is a cult of some kind. Ya see them around from time to time offering 'stress tests.' They wave a clipboard and offer me a stress test and I just tell them, No thanks, I don't have any stress.

Last I heard, and this may be mis-representative so clear it up if so, but I heard they had declared Tom Cruise is God, or something like that.
:confused:

Celebrity rumors are just waiting to happen within Scientology. Anonymous has plenty of ex-scientologists in its ranks (or working with us) who handle rumor control.

To the best of my understanding: Cruise is somewhere near the top in terms of leadership power, and is treated like a god. He must be called "sir" by everyone except for the leader of CoS (David Miscavige), and a lot of their "donation" funds go to pampering him. Also at a certain level on their journey to enlightenment (they call "the bridge") you supposedly gain supernatural powers, no longer get sick, and other easily falsifiable claims. Cruise is likely high enough up for other Scientologists to believe he has super powers. One of our favorite chants here in NYC is "Tom Cruise can't fly!" ;)

On the issue of "donations", they are manditory. You are not allowed to continue learning you faith unless you pay a very hefty sum. It's estimated to reach what "enlightenment" it costs around $360,000. There are several instances of people killing themselves due to lack of money to continue their Scientology studies. They have a VERY strong belief in reincarnation, therefore these people all thought they could come back in a new life and continue their "spiritual advancement".

Furthermore the upper level beliefs often contradict what they tell their lower level members. They claim to be compatible with all faiths/religions, but after about $50,000 of courses and several years in CoS they tell you all other religions are lies. At that point it is so hard for people to get out, because they have already invested a huge sum of money, time and emotion. If a business did that, they'd be sued into the ground for bait and switch. CoS gets away with this by calling it their faith. :mad:

[tymejumper]

I have always suspected that this Scientology is a cult of some kind. Ya see them around from time to time offering 'stress tests.' They wave a clipboard and offer me a stress test and I just tell them, No thanks, I don't have any stress.

Last I heard, and this may be mis-representative so clear it up if so, but I heard they had declared Tom Cruise is God, or something like that.
:confused:



I believe it is a cult. I heard that Ron Hubbard started it as a bet saying anyone could create a religion and get people to follow it. So he did just that as a proof that there is no God.

[Zerbie]

I believe it is a cult. I heard that Ron Hubbard started it as a bet saying anyone could create a religion and get people to follow it. So he did just that as a proof that there is no God.

How on EARTH does one leap from anyone can create a 'religion' and get people to follow it to, "proof that there is no God"????

yes, many people are followers and will believe things they are told. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not there is "a God."

[tymejumper]

How on EARTH does one leap from anyone can create a 'religion' and get people to follow it to, "proof that there is no God"????

yes, many people are followers and will believe things they are told. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not there is "a God."



I asked my co-worker that same question. He insisted that Ron Hubbert started it to prove there was no God, and then stated that Hubbert was an athiest. I didn't much get what one has to do with another either. I DO have a friend that is Atheist, and when I told her about said comment she was just as confused as we are!

Of course, my co-worker, also believes that you will go to Hell if you don't believe as he does. He about had a heart attack when I told him I didn't believe in Hell!:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I never said I worked with Einsteins! Kind of scary that we are medical care workers.

[Rick336]

It's estimated to reach "enlightenment" it costs around $360,000.

Does that include the tip?

[Zerbie]

I asked my co-worker that same question. He insisted that Ron Hubbert started it to prove there was no God, and then stated that Hubbert was an athiest. I didn't much get what one has to do with another either. I DO have a friend that is Atheist, and when I told her about said comment she was just as confused as we are!

Of course, my co-worker, also believes that you will go to Hell if you don't believe as he does. He about had a heart attack when I told him I didn't believe in Hell!:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I never said I worked with Einsteins! Kind of scary that we are medical care workers.
:eek:
Well, educated people can believe far-out things, too. I do. Just not as far out as some, i guess. :lol:

You're right that the first premise has nothing to do with its supposed 'conclusion.' Scientology sounds cultish and unhealthy now, wherever it originally came from. I hope that dangerous cults don't get painted as somehow coming from atheism. :rolleyes:

I have so much respect for atheists (considered myself one for a long time). It really bothers me when people act like there is something wrong with that (yeah, tangent, I know.:o It's been a long weekend and my brain is fried.:p)

[tdogg]

I'm an advocate of coexistance, and beyond that, respecting each person's spiritual beliefs. Raised in the A of G sect of Christianity, I never believed everything that was told/taught to me. For instance, the drive to get out there and save everyone you can just never made sense. Others' spiritual beliefs that differed than mine, were no less a conviction in them that beliefs were in me. Who is to say what works for me would work across the board for everyone else? Who is to say that what I believed was absolutely the only truth out there?

Then when considering Christianity, one must also consider the numerous sects within that religioun. All believing different things than the next. All believing in different criteria that brings and maintains salvation. Who is the say what is the absolutely correct sect of Chrisianity? In the end, it always seemed to be about fear (and money).

I think there is much an individual can learn from many religions and different faith beliefs. If one believes it's all about the destination (and a destination that there is no proof of existing within any religion), then perhaps choose a belief and stick with it. and at least leave others alone with theirs. But for me, it's about my life's journey, from Point A (birth) to Point B (death). Everything in between is what I expect to be judged on when I finally get to whatever is beyond death, if there is anything at all. If I can take my personal spiritual beliefs, and add to them what I can learn from others, then isn't that going to enrich my journey and get me to a better place when I near the end? I believe it to be true.

So today, while I would say I have spiritual beliefs based in Christianity, I would also have to add that I am accumulating spirituality when I learn from others' beliefs, and really listen in my heart, and that just adds to my spiritual journey. :love:

[Zerbie]

Tdogg has it absolutely right! (Absolutely? Hmm, perhaps only relatively?:p)

What could possibly grow us faster than learning what is good from anyplace we find it?

[Rick336]

Everything in between is what I expect to be judged on when I finally get to whatever is beyond death, if there is anything at all.

For me, I believe in living as best I can by the values of respect, fairness, equality, honesty, integrity, and compassion. But if I'm judged by these values after I'm dead, it will be by my friends who are still living, not a god that lives in another dimension.

Rick

[PokeAnon]

Anonymous has joined up of people from all religious backrounds, uncluding several people part of an organization known as "Freezone", which still encourages the teachings of Scientology, but believes that the "Church" is far too corrupt, and isn't following the teachings correctly.

If at all possible we'd like to usher in a series of major reforms so CoS becomes more like Freezone is now, however the consensus of most former CoS members (and now critics) is that it must be torn down and started from scratch.

All of us CoS critics are not protesting the good things they do. We protest because they consistently violate human rights, break laws, act with bigoted intents, lie to and exploit its own parishoners, and make dangerous pseudo-scientific claims which have directly led to deaths in the past.

[BishopIoan]

I believe it is a cult. I heard that Ron Hubbard started it as a bet saying anyone could create a religion and get people to follow it. So he did just that as a proof that there is no God.


Your information is correct,tymejumper. The grandfather of a dear friend of mine was in the bar when the bet was made--her grandfather took Hubbard up on his bet--unfortunately, Hubbard won.

I visited the LA and Pasadena "orgs" and they both had an empty office reserved for Hubbard should ever come back and pay a visit. :confused:
What are these people thinking? That he hitched a ride on Hale-Bopp with Heaven's Gate and plans to return? These people are crazy!!

I had a friend who tried to talk me into becoming Scientologist. I read Dianetics and came to the conclusion that if Hubbard wasn't insane, he was a consummate con man.

I'm generally tolerant where religion is concerned, but the "Church" of Scientology needs to be shut down, the sooner the better. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening and tine soon.

[PokeAnon]

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/06/21/18509898.php

"Scientology: Gays and Lesbians should be quarantined and institutionalized"

This is a great article on a horrible subject. I encourage you to take a quick read to understand just how horrible the Scientology view of homosexuality is.

[Daniel]

They really are a queer organization, aren't they? Nothing gay about Scientology. :D:rolleyes::lol:

[Rick336]

Scientology is the antonym of rationality.

Rick

[hippie4lyfe]

i dont get how people believe in scientology but its no more crazy than a lot of other religions.

[PokeAnon]

Far from being the only guilty ones on the list, the Church of Scientology showed its true colors when it came to Prop 8. :mad:

http://www.protectmarriage.com/endorsements/churches-endorsing

"Church of Scientology of San Diego"

[tdogg]

Page is gone. They are too embarrassed and deep down inside protectmarriage.com knows they are wrong and we will not take their discrimination lightly. The list of endorsers has strangely disappeared.

[Rick336]

Far from being the only guilty ones on the list, the Church of Scientology showed its true colors when it came to Prop 8. :mad:

http://www.protectmarriage.com/endorsements/churches-endorsing

"Church of Scientology of San Diego"

The Church of Scientology is an example how gullible and desperate people really are. There's little difference between them and the Branch Davidians from Waco in 1993.


Rick

[PokeAnon]

The list of endorsers was taken down shortly after I posted it. Thankfully google cached it and I took a screen shot of it.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:xY4T7NwvCoAJ:www.protectmarriage.co m/endorsements/churches-endorsing+protectmarriage+endorsers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us