i dunno....

[sbonser04]

Ok......this may seem a bit off color b/c its easter and all but lately (with in the past 2 years) i've been having a very difficult time believing in god/jesus/the catholic faith in general. Yesterday, some long time family friends had a huge tragedy. My parents god child has 2 little girls, ages 2 and 5ish, they were out with there mother taking a walk in town, a guy in a car had a heart attack and ran them over, killing the 2 year old...not only was it the day b4 easter, it was also mothers birthday.....when things like this happen it makes it really really hard for me to believe in god b/c i don't understand how a god who is supposed to be so loving would let something like this happen. i'm not trying to whine or complain, but i'm just really having a hard time w/ my faith and especially after what happend yesterday. I do want to believe...but sometimes its just very difficult for me to do so.......

[Zerbie]

Oh I am so sorry! What a horrible tragedy!

I have no words of wisdom to help with the faith crisis. But please accept my condolences. What a terrible way to remember Easter, for you and for that mother especially. It makes me want to cry.

I am wishing you strength, solace, and peace. :pray:

[Emproph]

To understand that our suffering is not meaningless. Though I don’t know that it’s possible to accept the meaning of meaninglessness when you’re in the midst of it, even if you have the “reasons why” of it.

Loss of this magnitude implies that there is no God, or God is not in control, or God is not Love. In any case one thing is certain, the God that you believed in and the universe you lived in will never be the same.

I think the only thing that could really help them in this situation is to be put in contact with parents who have been through the exact same thing. People who live in that universe where the true meaning of “ignorance is bliss” is understood. The real universe.

www.compassionatefriends.org lists a chapter in your area. They have meetings, but like any support group and especially in this type of situation, I’m sure they’d be able to put you in contact with someone who’d be willing to come out and speak with the parents, or point you in the right direction.

{For chapter referral information, call the TCF National Office toll-free at 877-969-0010 or write
nationaloffice@compassionatefriends.org}

I Googled “the loss of a child” and I found this forum. I think they too would be more than willing to point you in the right direction, for yourself and your friends who just lost their child. I don’t know that it was designed to be spiritual, but from the several posts I read it seems to be a common theme:

{SilentGrief.com is a place for anyone who has been touched by child loss to visit. This is a place for grieving parents, grieving siblings and other family members, and grieving friends. This is also a place to visit if you want to understand how to help those who are grieving the loss of a child. Every profession that deals with child loss should visit SilentGrief.com frequently
http://silentgrief.com/siteinfo/
Loss of a young child forum:
http://silentgrief.proboards70.com/index.cgi?board=lossofayoungchild}

P.S. Organized religion creates more atheists than the concept of atheism ever will. God was never meant to be confined to a book or a building. If anyone tells you that you don't have direct access to the truth of God right here and right now, run! :eek:

If God is Love then the only commandment you have to "obey" is treating others the way you would want to be treated, just like Jesus, who is God, said. Thus, The Golden Rule. :tup:

By doing so you are Loving God above all else because you are loving the IDEA of Love by practicing it in the best possible way a human can, by loving others as God loves them, and that includes yourself. What could be more productive and conducive to heaven on Earth than that? :rainbow:

[awediot]

What a sad loss and awful memory to have linked to this time of year. I feel for all involved, including the man driving... There is little to say to some one so quickly after such a tragedy that won't sound both flippant and rote, but it is odd how proven Truth takes on those exact characteristics. We can blow off certainties as almost a patronizing insult when one offers them in an effort to help, only to have their deeper, taken for granted power, twist and apply itself in new, soothing ways... Consider the eloquent, over-used and endlessly applicable: Shit Happens.

See? Sounds callous, even as it is agreed with. It is a simplistic, South Parkesque response that defends God perfectly... I am glad to see that you still phrase the question as to God allowing evil to occur, rather than causing it. That shows a hope for faith many have lost... If I may assume a few things, I'll guess you believe God to be perfect in both Love and Power, ( I do ), or at least superior to your understanding of them, and you, would have intervened out of basic love for a child. How could God not? He must be lacking in either Love or Power. And an inferior God is impossible. 911, Katrina, the tsunami and the innocent blood spilled in this War have turned your question into a mantra, but it is still the ones that hit home which make God look the cruelest. Feel free to whine and complain, we all earn that right through out life. Your effort to want to believe speaks volumes.

As a Christian myself, I believe God gave me the scale by which I can try to weigh perfection, love, power, mercy, intent etc. and I will always come up short in understanding and in action. I've no doubt God has our best interest at heart. He however knows the future and works on our eternal existence, sometimes at the expense of the day to day. I think this may be what you are doubting. It is the vastness of His Divine, unknowable methods we have no clue how to read. Circumstances from lifetimes ago and chain reactions coming to fruition years from now must by the very nature of the reality he has established, leave us hurt and lost sometimes, and rapturous and still lost at others... To get base again, perhaps He has lengthened or cut short traffic lights in order to sideline an accident, or remove a future killer before maturity, before they are to far gone. What unnoticed saving miracles He may perform to help us is as beyond comprehension as the mystery as to why He stops.
He gave us a world designed to occupy and fascinate forever. We chose to be vulnerable to it, and if we fashion it in treacherous, motorized ways, we do so feeling the increased risk is worth it. God could make every bullet turn to tulip petals once free from the barrel, cause all throats to choke around a lie, pad the mountains, and bring that little girl back, but it ruins us. Actions, even neutral ones must have consequences. Some we deny piling on our own head, some we let others pay for and more often than I understand, some come out of the blue for no reason at all to take you back, or sync up lotto numbers. We do not know which of these two is better or why they single us out. Just keep the faith God will use it for the best if we let Him.

I never know if my babbling helps or hurts. You may get some extremely differing replies than mine. Take truth where you find it but don't doubt God will explain it all one day and what He feels for the innocent victim is beyond Love.
The Problem With Pain by Lewis is a wonderful attempt to address this slippery, inevitable Trial of God.
P.S. I was not lucky enough to have read Emprophs response prior to writing this, or I would have utilized some of his unique wisdom. I'm too lazy to revise, so take it for what its worth. I hope some of the ideas we can offer lead to peace for you and your loved ones. The support his links may open could be a Godsend...

[sbonser04]

thank you all for your replies and advice it really means alot