COMING OUT - Positive or Negative

[Pablo Rafael]

Since I have just totally "come out", I was wondering how other people's experiences related to mine. How positive or negative has "coming out" been to those of you who are LGBT and "out"?

Too bad we can't get a more complicated poll rather than just one question.

Also I wonder how these factors effected the coming out experience:

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?

2. How old were you?

3. When did you come out? (year)

4. What was your religion at the time?

[Pablo Rafael]

My coming out experience has been 95% positive. If it weren't for losing my job, the whole things would have been a piece of cake. To be honest, I was getting a little weary of teaching so I think it was time to take a break from it anyway.

Only one person has had anything negative to say to me, and it wasn't anything major. The pastor at the church where I used to work had a long discussion with me. He disagreed with me 100% but was kind and has continued to be when I see him. Everyone else, family, friends, coworkers, have been great. The support has been uplifting.

Now the follow-up qustions:

1. Where? I live in Colorado. The Rocky Mountain West has sort of a "I will mind my own business" attitude.

2. How old? 46 (I know, I know, I should have done this decades ago. I'm running a bit behind.)

3. When? in 2007 to family and friends, 2008 at work.

4. Religion? I worked at a Lutheran Church (LCMS), Most of the family is Lutheran. Though the LCMS is a rather non-affirming denomination and I did lose my job, the individual members have been amazingly open and accepting. I go to a Catholic church. There has been no problem at all there.

[nmwolfboy]

Since I have just totally "come out", I was wondering how other people's experiences related to mine. How positive or negative has "coming out" been to those of you who are LGBT and "out"?
When i first started to come out it was mostly positive. As time has passed my perspective's changed and i'd now say coming out has been entirely positive.
Also I wonder how these factors effected the coming out experience:

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?
In both central and western Pennsylvania.

2. How old were you?
i was 14 when i first named it to myself, and around 16 when i first told someone else.

3. When did you come out? (year)
Let's see, i was 16 in 1979.

4. What was your religion at the time?
Christian: United Methodist

[wmanion]

I would have to say that my overall experience with coming out was very positive. I knew I was different at an early age and had crushes on boys from sixth grade on, however, I kept these to myself. Religion became a big part of my life at 14 and that is when I first heard about how wrong homosexuality was. I fought it all the way. I even married in an attempt to change my orientation. My marriage ended when I was 33 but not over my homosexuality, the wife decided she no longer wanted to be a wife or mother. I left a job working 70 hours a week in order to be home with my kids. I went back to college where I met a few of those "gay" people. When I was 35, I decided the gay was not going to go away and I spent a lot of time researching homosexuality and what it really meant. This was a five year process and I did not come out until I was 40. I was scared I would lose my kids...their love...their respect, but I could no longer be untrue to the true nature God had given me. I first came out to a friend at college who really helped me with the coming out process. We are still great friends to this day. Then it came out to my children one at a time starting with my daughter. She was 16 and had a bisexual experience, she was really struggling with having that inexperience...so in a heart to heart talk, I revealed to her that I was gay and that it was okay. I did not lose her love nor her respect. Secondly, I came out to my oldest son, he did have a hard time dealing with the fact for awhile, I think more or less he was embarrassed, but he even tells me to this day he loves me and he has the highest respect for me because I stood behind them and did not abandon them. Finally, there was my youngest son and he seemed not to have any problems at all. When his mother heard that I had come out she tried to get him to come live with her and told him he was in a bad environment. She also told him I was an abomination in God's eyes. He told her (I was so proud of him) that Dad is living true before God's eyes and the truth is what is what suppose to set you free. You went on to say that with being honest to himself and God made him closer to God...not farther away and that he had no intentions of coming to live with her.
Shortly after, I came out to my brother who was totally accepting and I joined our local GLAD association in Central Illinois. I organized the very first Coming Out party as a celebration and a way of acceptance for those struggling to come out. Soon, because rumors fly wild and high...all that knew me...knew I had come out. I have yet to have anyone that has known me for years and years say anything negative (except for my ex-wife, but for some reason that does not bother me at all).
I have been out for thirteen wonderful years now and I was a part of the Assemblies of God, when I came out. And you know Pablo, it is okay that we came out later in life...after all, there is not a rainbow visible after every storm, but when there is...wow...how beautiful it is.

Bill

[Alecto]

Mostly positive. Like, it's a hard thing to do, so the negative was only that unpleasantness that came from myself. It's not "fun", or anything, but it was definitely worth doing.

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?
Western New York (we're not "upstate" ::grump:: )

2. How old were you?
18 for my parents / most of my friends, a little earlier to a gay brother.

3. When did you come out? (year)
2004 or 5 to parents.

4. What was your religion at the time?
To me: Agnostic but exploring. To my parents: Not-Catholic. I'm now pretty much "agnostic but not exploring"; I've got beliefs, but none of them really involve a deity so I don't know where that puts me.

Ultimately, I came out because I had to for me. Other people are totally good at seperating that part of themselves but still maintaining a decent relationship with folks; I can't do that. I spent senior year of high school coming home from school (late, cause I'd stay and talk to friends), hide in my room doing homework (or not), and only come out for dinner. I knew that I wanted that to change, so I came out over Christmas break freshman year of college.

[royalartisan]

I would say my "coming out" experience was 99% positive ! My mother was only upset that I didn't tell her myself, that she found out by reading my journal. She told me she was disappointed because she thought we were close enough that I could tell her anything. She was right, but I just wasn't quite ready. So she was angrier about that than about my actually being gay. My father was a slightly different story, as I never told him. My sister outed me in front of him and then he said that he believes it's a choice to be gay and that that's just how he was raised. He also told me not to knock heterosex until I've tried it. (gasp) I asked him if that meant he was condoning underage, premarital sex and he laughed and said no. He thinks I'm too young to make the choice to be gay. I tried to explain that I have the same feelings toward women that he does and that I'm not sure why I feel that way, but it's part of who I am. He said he loves me no matter what. And recently, when I asked him if he'd come to be at my wedding someday, he said it would be a little strange and definitely different, but that he would be there as long as I'm happy. My mother said basically the same thing, but then last year, she did a 360 because my a-hole stepfather said some stuff along the lines of "you're a threat to my daughter and my Christian household and you can't be a part of my family with a girlfriend, etc etc". Yes, a very difficult time in my life because my mother decided to go along with my stepdad until I told her that if my girlfriend was not going to be welcome into our family, that I wasn't welcome either and I didn't think she was willing to lose me again (this time, quite possibly forever). She changed her tune and stood up to Al (that's my stepdad), and it all seems to be good since then. My sister, who is 20, doesn't really have an opinion. She doesn't treat me any differently than she did before I told her. She was the first person I actually told in my family.


My (former) theatre director, who is a pretty intensely devoted Mormon, loves me just the same and has not treated me any differently even when I had no idea she knew about my orientation for the past three years without me ever actually coming out to her. The grapevine, you know. Word travels! My closest friends all know and they don't mind at all. Most of them are very supportive and the ones that aren't as supportive, per se, they just sit back and let me be myself.

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in? California.

2. How old were you? 14

3. When did you come out? (year) 2004

4. What was your religion at the time? Non-denominational Christian


All of my colleagues at work know (I work Summer Day Camp for the YMCA) and they're all very supportive.

The only trouble I ever had was dealing with the fact that I was one of three or four people at my high school back then who was out of the closet AND actually dating someone. I tried to say I was bi but that lasted only a week. I just...couldn't pretend to like guys anymore. I have no romantic or sexual feelings for them. Period. I think there are many people who have said things about me behind my back....but whenever someone tries to say it's a choice or use obscene language to describe lesbians, I'm such a strong presence that they tend to deflate. I demand respect, you know? I don't allow people to treat me badly because I happen to be a homosexual. I've always been strong about that, ever since I first came out, which was 4 years ago now. Granted, I'm only 18, but still...I knew that I was going to be facing some pretty narrow-minded, bigoted people out here in the real world, so I figured I had better toughen myself up and grow thicker skin if I wanted to make it through the ignorance and hate relatively unscathed.

Usually, I don't receive personal attacks for being gay. Surprisingly enough, I've received more personal attacks for being Jewish than anything else. The typical scenario for me is that someone will make a comment about homosexuality being a choice or being such-and-such..or start slandering homosexuals, and that is when I'll pipe up and say that I'm a lesbian and that I don't appreciate being treated like I'm less than human. That's when they blush and shut their mouths.

So, I'm pretty lucky to have been received by the majority of the people in my life, with the exception of my grandmother (who still to this day does not know), with open and loving arms.

[keltic63]

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?

Western PA

2. How old were you?

40, see Pablo? you're not that late!

3. When did you come out? (year)

2003

4. What was your religion at the time?

Christian Church, Disciples of Christ

For the most part, I was outted by my ex-wife, and that was somewhat traumatizing. However, there were a few key people that I got to first, and from nearly everyone the response has been positive. I still get crap from my ex-wife, and I often don't know what my parents are thinking because they just won't say anything. I've heard from my brother that my parents are having trouble with our upcoming wedding, yet they haven't said a word to me. I may go visit them in the next day or two. A friend suggested that I ask my mom to bake cookies for the wedding, which may help her feel that she can contribute something without "condoning" what we're doing. :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?

Eastern PA. I came out to my parents at after being aggressively confronted by my father. I had started dating someone, and he picked up on that.

It was not a postive experience. My father said the most god-awful things to me, and being caught off-guard, I was hard pressed to say those things which could have helped me in the moment. My mother? She stood in the kitchen and cried- hardly said a word. She later took me out to lunch (by this time I had escaped and started living with the man I had been dating) and tried to convince me that I wasn't gay. It was a mess. An awful mess. I had to fight both my parents and siblings the whole way. They don't talk or engage me in conversation about the matter, and as recently as yesterday, my mother sent me (it was late of course) a birthday card with a very thoughtless and insulting message:

As the years have passed, many things about our relationship have changed. We've learned to accept each other as individuals and to respect one another's feelings and ideas even though we may not always agree. Many things have changed, but one thing will always be the same- You're loved so very much.

Well gee.....thanks Mom. So very love you hate you. So very 'we love you in spite of you'.

I pretty much blew my stack.

I called her up, and for the first time in a very long time had it out with her. She hung up on me- twice. So I wrote her a letter. Put it in the mail. Damn good letter. One thing I said was that I didn't want to see any more Dobson material lying around the house when I went there. Yeah....she sends him money. Can you believe it? She's still praying that I'm going to be straight.

Am sick of being tolerated. That's not love. And the card kinda pushed me over the edge. Haven't confronted my parents in a long while.

I wrote in my letter that I was the one who started telling both my parents that I loved them about 15 years ago. Tis true. I reached out to them- not the other way around.

Can you get the sense that my fundi family is pretty non-demonstrative and uncommunicative? Yep. That would be right.



2. How old were you?

28

3. When did you come out?

1986

4. What was your religion at the time?

I had left the AG church. There was no room for me there. All of my siblings attend conservative churches except from my youngest brother (there are five of us). And he doesn't give a rats ass about the matter of being gay. And for that I thank him. The rest of my siblings? Won't talk, can't talk about it. All very hush hush. All very 'we love you inspite of yourself...see...we're being good Christians!'. :rolleyes:

Not a happy camper as far as my family is concerned. Sick of playing don't ask don't tell. They may think they are doing the Christian thing of 'loving' me. But let me tell you, it doesn't feel like love. And I don't think there is anything Christ-like about it.

Why is it that, all too often, we as gay children are left holding the bag? Filling in the blanks? Trying to make do with bad situations? Letting others get away with crap? We turn out to be the ones who are the peacemakers in a room full of wolves.

I am coming to see that, more and more, putting up with crap is self-violence. And if we have to scream and yell to make our point- and find some independence- even at the age of 50 (just had a birthday), it's never too late to grow up and speak up.

This man has a life, not a life-style or an agenda, contrary to the words uttered by his mother on the phone yesterday. Can you believe it?

Dobson? He has a clear agenda: to take away any right I have or will ever have. And he makes a fine living demonizing me. And my mother has the nerve to have his crap lying all around when I go to her house.

No more.

[matthewspeed]

1. I was living in the Detroit area when I came out. That is where I am originally from.

2. I was 16, I think.

3. It was 1981! Boy, am I getting old!!

4. I was Catholic at the time. Back to being Catholic recently.

[scott snedeker]

No comparison!! The only reason not to come out is fear!

But Daniel I am pissed at your parent's reactiion to this day. Pissed that they don't have the courage to stand up for their own child.

One thing is for sure, If you had stayed in the closet you would have been miserable. And staying in the closet would not have made them courageous. They are who they are. The buddhist thing to do would be to release your attachment to the anger and hurt that is your connection to that fact that they lack courage and accountability to one of their family. If they had treated their whole family like this because all of their children have brown eye, a judge world have judged them unfit and sequestered custody. It's only because they can get away with it that they do it. If authority said they would changethey woul. Small minds driven by fear.

If you had not come out you would be of a small mind also.

You did right!

Love,
Ash

[Daniel]

But Daniel I am pissed at your parent's reactiion to this day. Pissed that they don't have the courage to stand up for their own child.

One thing is for sure, If you had stayed in the closet you would have been miserable. And staying in the closet would not have made them courageous. They are who they are. The buddhist thing to do would be to release your attachment to the anger and hurt that is your connection to that fact that they lack courage and accountability to one of their family. If they had treated their whole family like this because all of their children have brown eye, a judge world have judged them unfit and sequestered custody. It's only because they can get away with it that they do it. If authority said they would changethey woul. Small minds driven by fear.

If you had not come out you would be of a small mind also.

You did right!

Love,
Ash

Thanks for your words Ash,

You put your finger on it. And I was unsparing in my letter to my mother: I said exactly what you articulate in bold above. I told my mother that she chose her religion over me, her gay child. And it's true. She has. She'd rather think about what the church ladies would say if they knew, and I bet that they don't- all these years later. Parent's have their closets too.

And thank you for reminding my about letting go of anger and moving towards forgiveness. Will work on that.

Rome wasn't built in a day. But I will do what I can. ;)

[Zerbie]

Thank you for saying it, Scotty.

When I read these things, I feel anger towards Daniel's family, too, for not standing up for him. How can they NOT? Yet sometimes, they are even the ones making the verbal assaults.

Somewhere beyond the anger there is incredible quietness --- a mystery that one can actually not stand up for their own child. How much more important it becomes then, that we be the people who DO.

If we do so, more will follow.

[paul]

Dear Daniel,

Who ever said "blood is thicker than water" obviously wasn't gay. Nothing is thicker than a fundamentalist family member (sorry).

I think one of the hardest things about a family members rejection is the lack of credit they give us. Our parents raised us, they indoctrinated us (in many cases), and yet it doesn't occur to them that we had to answer all of the same objections they raise when we were struggling to accept ourselves. In a way, coming out to an un-accepting family member is like going backwards and having to justify our existence, again. That is ridiculous, it's hard enough going through that process once, we shouldn't have to go through it over and over again. I really understand the people who just start new families in the gay community and have little or no contact with their blood relatives.

[paul]

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?
California. It didn't effect my coming out because I "came out" at church (a world of it's own). Really, I "confessed" my attraction to men and they didn't quite get it.
2. How old were you?
19.
3. When did you come out? (year)
1975. Let's see, the APA had just taken tgt off of their list of illnesses. I remember reading it in Psychology Today while in high school, I can still see it in my mind. Unfortunately, all the info I could find at the library had me as sick, not to mention my religious up bringing, so I was sick and sinful. Bad timing.
4. What was your religion at the time?
Charismatic Fundamentalist. Again, this didn't help. There was no question or option to be gay. Gay was sin, or at best, sickness.

[Zerbie]

Oh gee, which time, and as what? :p :rolleyes: :lol:

The First Time:

Where: New Jersey. Irrelevant. Coulda been anyplace. Really, I was in the living room.

How old? About 8 or 9. (6-ish when I first came out to myself.) I had it right back then, that I could be fluid, and either with males or with females.

What year? Musta been early 1980s.

Religion: None, thank God:pray:. Oh, we celebrated Christmas with a big tree and presents and all, and I was taught to tell people I was Christian, but we never went to church and never practiced any kind of prayers or ANYTHING at home, so really, none.


The Second Time:

Where: New Jersey - at first. I thought I was lesbian. It freaked me out SO much, I moved to Texas, and it was in Texas that I REALLY came out, like, publicly to the world and all. Too bad I was wrong about being lesbian. God, that was embarrassing. :o

What year? Between coming out as lesbian to a select few individuals to coming out to the whole world, that took from 1995-1998.

Religion? In 1995, atheist. By 1998, back to None.

The Third Time:

Where: California, Texas, Arizona.
I was in CA when I suddenly went head over heels for a guy. That was unexpected, to say the least. I came back to Texas a "lesbian who also likes men." That lasted a few months before someone asked me if I was bisexual, whereupon it finally clicked, "Yes, that is a reasonable description of my romantic orientation."

How old? Gosh, mid-20s already!

What year? The Big Discovery (and my real inward coming out, when it finally all felt right, past crisis, and no longer an issue for me) hit like a wave in summer of 2000.
Summer of 2001 when I finally concluded that the word "bisexual" seemed to suit the situation. :p :lol:

Religion? Still none. :)

And now, just to jumble things up, I'm sorta kinda wondering if maybe I'm actually straight, with a history of falling in love with girls? Or is that in fact what bisexual is?

Can anybody tell me what I am???? ARGHHHH!!!!!:hissy:

(And this issue is on my mind lately, because I recently experienced rejecting language on two consecutive days, once because I do not identify as lesbian, and once because I do not identify as straight.)

[wmanion]

Zerbie,
You know in your heart what and who you are. Labels do not make the person and you definitely do not need a label. Being who you are is what makes you so loved and accepted.

Love,
Bill

[Zerbie]

AWWww!! :D:D:D
:love:



Zerbie,
You know in your heart what and who you are.

Coulda fooled me. :lol::lol::lol:

Oh yeah, wait I remember: I don't HAVE a sexual orientation.
So that means, like blood type O, that I can fit in EVERYwhere. Yippeeee! (twirls)
:D:)

Labels do not make the person and you definitely do not need a label. Being who you are is what makes you so loved and accepted.

Love,
Bill

[royalartisan]

Thank you for saying it, Scotty.

When I read these things, I feel anger towards Daniel's family, too, for not standing up for him. How can they NOT? Yet sometimes, they are even the ones making the verbal assaults.

Somewhere beyond the anger there is incredible quietness --- a mystery that one can actually not stand up for their own child. How much more important it becomes then, that we be the people who DO.

If we do so, more will follow.



Yep, it's that silence.....

That's what my ReachOUT campaign is about. :) If you haven't seen the tribute video/ad campaign video..you can see it at my website: http://www.freewebs.com/paintedblind


And personally, I don't know how I would deal with it if my parents were to ever do something like that. I probably would never speak to them again, which is sad. But that's why I feel that I've been very lucky.

[Rick336]

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?

Minneapolis, Minnesota

2. How old were you?

I was 22

3. When did you come out? (year)

1974

4. What was your religion at the time?
Non denominational



I came out to my straight friends and roommates in 1974. I came out at work in 1977. I came out publicly in an op-ed editorial in the Minneapolis Star Tribune in 1980. I came out to my folks and family back home in North Carolina in 1982. I came out publicly in an op-ed editorial in my hometown newspaper in North Carolina in 1995.


Rick

[nmwolfboy]

And now, just to jumble things up, I'm sorta kinda wondering if maybe I'm actually straight, with a history of falling in love with girls? Or is that in fact what bisexual is?

Can anybody tell me what I am???? ARGHHHH!!!!!:hissy:

(And this issue is on my mind lately, because I recently experienced rejecting language on two consecutive days, once because I do not identify as lesbian, and once because I do not identify as straight.)

Dear, dear Zerbie. :cookie: One of the first people i (mutually) came out to was a friend from my family's church. i was about 16 and she was 17. She was the first person i knew who was attracted to both males and females. She never identified to me as bisexual, though. The only label she would allow for her sexuality was 'HAPPY!' :weee:

Daniel, i don't know what to say that others haven't already said. {{{HUGS}}}

We're each of us so much more than just our stories. But i feel strongly that we still must stand up and tell them. Thanks everyone for sharing yours. :love:

-scott

[tdogg]

Can anybody tell me what I am????[/B] ARGHHHH!!!!!:hissy:

(And this issue is on my mind lately, because I recently experienced rejecting language on two consecutive days, once because I do not identify as lesbian, and once because I do not identify as straight.)

Zerbie, you are a warrior goddess, yet with a sweet vulnerability. Strong yet gentle, bold yet slightly held-back at times. There is nothing or no one that could possibly ever succeed at putting you in a nicely labeled box. You are uniquely wonderful. Don't let anyone ever try to slap a label on you girl. :love:

[tdogg]

S
Also I wonder how these factors effected the coming out experience:

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?

Sacramento, California

2. How old were you?
45 (one is never too old!) 45 when I finally accepted myself and came out to many of my family and friends

3. When did you come out? (year)
2004 late summer, early fall - when I came out openingly to myself and finally accepted who I am. I did not come out to some of my family until the following year.

4. What was your religion at the time?
Raised A of G since around 9 years old. Accepted Jesus, was baptised at 11 years old, expected to be a great missionary or some other 'important' servant of God. I still have family that refuse to accept me or my relationship. It's hurtful and difficult at times, but well worth coming out, getting the burden off my shoulders and living as myself. Onc thing about coming out at my age (our age), I didn't have to go through what my parents and church would have put me through had I been a minor. For that I'm relieved.

It's an ongoing process. And I've learned, it's not our process alone. Many times, family and friends have to 'come out' too and go through an entire process of their own, just to be ok with us. The funny thing was, so man of those closest to me were pretty much like "DUH" when I came out. We were wondering when you would finally figure it out, they would say!

[Daniel]

It's an ongoing process. And I've learned, it's not our process alone. Many times, family and friends have to 'come out' too and go through an entire process of their own, just to be ok with us.

It is an ongoing process, but for some, I believe, the process is halted, stopped in its tracks. I've seen the force of religious belief do that in my family. They have been able to go only so far, and no further.

I am torn between having compassion for my birth family (interesting how gay people can 'make family, no?) and feeling very angry. But you know what? I think I am learning- ever deeper- that it all starts with that Golden Rule thing- or what is done in the Buddhist practice of Tonglen: you give to yourself first love and acceptance, then to others. Can't give what you don't have, and you can't get others to give what they don't have. :rolleyes:;) And isn't that what 'coming out' is all about, learned to love ourselves as we are- as we are born to be? For me is wasn't just 'acceptance'. It was a heart-opening moment.

And it's really sad when others can't see Love. And for me that's what it's all about. Choosing to Love than than choosing Fear.

I get mighty frustrated when those who I have spent a lifetime with choose the latter- keep silence- turn the their heart off. How sad that is.

We're here to love, right? And be loved.

So sorry Tdogg that members of your family don't speak to you. Know how that is. It can stick in one's gut like a knife.

Maybe we just have to bless them bless them bless them- but not before anointing our own heads first- honoring the Light within.

Keep it buring bright baby!

And kisses to you Scott!

[scott snedeker]

It is an ongoing process, but for some, I believe, the process is halted, stopped in its tracks. I've seen the force of religious belief do that in my family. They have been able to go only so far, and no further.

Daniel I think this is only stopped if you let it. It's you own HEART that grows not their's

I am torn between having compassion for my birth family (interesting how gay people can 'make family, no?) and feeling very angry. But you know what? I think I am learning- ever deeper- that it all starts with that Golden Rule thing- or what is done in the Buddhist practice of Tonglen: you give to yourself first love and acceptance, then to others. Can't give what you don't have, and you can't get others to give what they don't have. :rolleyes:;)

But there is a better way. Buddha teaches this, Daniel

And isn't that what 'coming out' is all about, learned to love ourselves as we are- as we are born to be? For me is wasn't just 'acceptance'. It was a heart-opening moment.
Definitely

And it's really sad when others can't see Love. And for me that's what it's all about. Choosing to Love than than choosing Fear.

And maybe that is what your mother is confessing to you in her letter

That she is inadequate and is embarassed by it. That it is her lack of courage that is her imperfevtion that runs so deep that she can't "look you in the eye" and confess it directly.



Daniel sweet sexy man, Had a thought

So your mother.......if she has the courage to look past her homophobia (a dibilitating anxiety disorder) and sends love to you, Do you have the courage to look past her disorder and feel love for her.


If not, can you feel pity (the near enemy of compassion) for her suffering from homophobia.
Maybe pity is a temporary side-step from anger and pain on the way to compassion?

Could this be a path of forgiveness toward her that you are looking for so that you can let go of the attachment of anger and pain?

Her homophobia causes anger and pain in you and fear and shame in her. Can you both let go of these attachments?

Then, if she acknowledges her homophobia as an obstacle to feeling love toward you, might this be a way to change your attachment from pity to compassion?




PS,

By the way Great thread! This is what I've been missing! on the forum!

[Daniel]

Daniel sweet sexy man, Had a thought

So your mother.......if she has the courage to look past her homophobia (a dibilitating anxiety disorder) and sends love to you, Do you have the courage to look past her disorder and feel love for her.


If not, can you feel pity (the near enemy of compassion) for her suffering from homophobia.
Maybe pity is a temporary side-step from anger and pain on the way to compassion?

Could this be a path of forgiveness toward her that you are looking for so that you can let go of the attachment of anger and pain?

Her homophobia causes anger and pain in you and fear and shame in her. Can you both let go of these attachments?

Then, if she acknowledges her homophobia as an obstacle to feeling love toward you, might this be a way to change your attachment from pity to compassion?


Which hang on the word 'if'.

Do I love my mother? Well. I sit down and do lovingkindness meditation with her in mind as well as others. I go 'generate' compassion as the Buddhist's term it. Do that actively. I work it baby. Work it for all its worth.

However, the reality of my mother's life is something else entirely. Short on reflection and self-observation. And it was always thus.

And can an 79 year old woman turn around a life-time's experience in being something she is not? That's an interesting question. Can she see things for what they are? Like me? Her religion? He own ignorance?

That's asking a lot for someone has who has invested a great deal of time in cocooning herself from reality, and is 'happier' pretending that matters are other than they are.

To be honest: I doubt it very much. She's at a time in life where she is starting to close up shop. Asking her to stretch emotionally is like asking someone who has never run to do the marathon. She is self-involved- as many become as they get older. Thinking about safety, health and other concerns. I just don't see it happening. And anything that does 'happen' is going to happen on my end of things.

It always has. :rolleyes: Her abilty to 'see' her own homophobia, is, from my vantage point, severely compromised.

Truth is, I do feel love for her, but not on the order where one would call it the love of a son towards his mother. Truth is, I have never felt that. That connection was never established. Had it with my grandmother, but that is another matter (interesting how Life can be generous and give us what we need, but not, perhaps, from the source that one expects).

Saw my mother open her heart big and wide once, and that was after her own mother died. It lasted for a few days, then was gone. Did her own mother love her in a generous, demonstrative and verbal way? No. That's the sad thing. I see her as only passing on the next to nothing that she received.

Do I have compassion for her for all that she has not been able to be for herself and her own children? Yep.

Will be very surprised to get a letter or a call from her in response to my letter. Very surprised. That would be out of character for her. Could it happen? Sure. Am I holding my breath? No.

So- the matter goes back to what I do, not what she does or is capable of. That's how I see it. Trouble is: I am human. And get angry at being on the recieving end of her dysfunction.

The woman rarely calls me, and if she does, it is always at the last minute, inviting me to change my schedule and life to go to some 'family' get-to-gether which I, of course, can't do at the drop of her hat. And at that point, don't even want to do. It's not any fun being the afterthought, believe me. And asking her (as I have many times) to give me more notice goes no-where.

Funny how people stay in their habits (of mind?) and don't want to be accomodating in the slightest. Sounds like a very self-involved person, no?

Know what? I think there is a lot of truth in the statement:

Water rises to its own level.

Which leas me to the teaching of the Buddha who declared that where were two kinds of suffering. Suffering itself, and the Suffering of Suffering. I've been stuck in the second of those two things lately, and am working my way back towards the former.

It's not a bad thing to realize or acknowledge the suffering that accompanies life. We all experience it. And in so far as I can 'see' and acknowledge the suffering of my own mother and family- well- that goes a long way. That is- as i see it- the beginning of compassion. Can they- and she- do the same for me? Good question. My observation is that fundi thinking puts a big damper on that.

Sinners don't need compassion or love, they just need to get right with God. :rolleyes: And round and round it goes. And at that point, the issue is about the beliefs that are held onto for dear life. Try to address THAT and you are taking on God- at least in their minds.

And in their belief system (and it is a system!), God NEVER loses! :lol::'( He doesn't accept gay people, but rather, 'loves' them in spite of themselves.

Oy!

So- I have to ask myself: "what did my letter really accomplish?" Probably very little. Oh...she'll think twice about have Mr. Dobson lying around, but that will be about it. Don't think it will go deeper than that. Not lost on me that I (and my other siblings) have already started assuming the role of the 'parent' in our relationship with our parents.

Jeez. Someone has to grow up. right? :rolleyes::lol:

[Zerbie]

Daniel.

I would hold open the possibility that later life (79 or so) might be just the right time for something new to startle the heck out of your mother. Mortality. She has to be becoming more aware of it in herself and others as she witnesses people aging, and some of them ill, some perhaps dying.

That is a huge shifter, death. If she doesn't snap the veil right back on afterward, a moment of facing mortality can make one re-think all the thought perceptions.

Also. My impression, maybe I'm wrong, all I know is the few sentences from you here, is that she is doing the very best she can. She may not be capable of more, and rather than say "Poor fundi thinking, she won't grow," consider where she may have come FROM. She may have traveled many light years to get to the place where she could write that letter about being able to feel love for you even though she 'disagrees.' Not saying you should feel any differently about that letter, but she may have walked thousands of miles to get to this point.

[Daniel]

Daniel.

I would hold open the possibility that later life (79 or so) might be just the right time for something new to startle the heck out of your mother. Mortality. She has to be becoming more aware of it in herself and others as she witnesses people aging, and some of them ill, some perhaps dying.

That is a huge shifter, death. If she doesn't snap the veil right back on afterward, a moment of facing mortality can make one re-think all the thought perceptions.

Also. My impression, maybe I'm wrong, all I know is the few sentences from you here, is that she is doing the very best she can. She may not be capable of more, and rather than say "Poor fundi thinking, she won't grow," consider where she may have come FROM. She may have traveled many light years to get to the place where she could write that letter about being able to feel love for you even though she 'disagrees.' Not saying you should feel any differently about that letter, but she may have walked thousands of miles to get to this point.


True. All very true. If- and when- I get that letter, or call, I'll let you know. That said, the octopus tentacles of fundamentalism are a force to be reckoned with. My sense is that she's going to have to take THAT on before she can even THINK about addressing me. And let's not forget that it's been a favorite past-time of modern Christian's to think of themselves as being persecuted. For all I know, I just gave her another reason to follow that line of thought.

She may indeed grow. That would be great. That said, I'm not holding my breath. I'm talking care of myself. As I should. Because, if I don't, it won't happen. Can't be sitting around waiting for Mommy's love. ;)

The life changes you speak of can certainly be a catalyst for change. That said, there is also the real possibility of the turning away from change too.

We all get to choose, don't we?

Love or Fear.

And what's the saying?

Old age is no place for sisses.

[Zerbie]

Danny. I love you. :love::love:
:)

[Daniel]

Danny. I love you. :love::love:
:)

I can be a pill, but I sent the woman who gave birth to me a little present with an I love you note. Ya' know, you just gotta love'm whether they can or not.

Here's what I sent- a CD of music by Cynthia Clawson- and album called Hymnsinger.


Hymnsinger


For some time now, Cynthia has called this her favorite album. In collaboration with her friend, pianist and arranger, David Maddux, some of her best song styling can be heard here. The hymn texts take on new meanings and greater dimensions as this duo soars over new harmonies and daring contrasts. Also included are three original pieces by Clawson, Maddux and Paul McKusker.

This very original work proves that nothing can speak to the heart better than an old hymn from a seasoned performer who lives for the reason behind the message. Critically acclaimed, this is a must for any Cynthia Clawson listener, for any musician, for any soul.

Selections included: Hymns, Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee; Suite: For The Beauty Of The Earth, This Is My Father's World, Then I Saw You; When I Survey The Wondrous Cross, Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing, Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence, O Love That Wilt Not Let Me Go; Suite: There Is A Balm In Gilead, Day By Day, I Need Thee Every Hour, Be Still My Soul, There Is A Balm In Gilead (Reprise) and When My Soul Goes Home with When We All Get To Heaven

Good stuff. Music reaches where words do not. At least that's the idea here. Gotta never stop trying, right? ;)

[RedneckDyke]

When I came out to my folks, they were all depressed. When I came out to my frieds, they all said "we already knew you were gay. why did you call?" They knew before I did. ;)

[Mia14]

1. What part of the country (or world) did you live in?
New Jersey

2. How old were you?
At 14 I told a gay aunt who told me to make sure there was no chance I could love a man because "it's a really really hard life" and not to tell anyone else until I was sure. So I told only my closest friends that I "might be bisexual" and left it at that.

At 18, I was sure and told EVERYONE. Funny story about the wedding where it spread like wildfire, but thats for another thread...

3. When did you come out? (year)
2004

4. What was your religion at the time?
Didn't really affect me - had already pulled away from my Catholic upbringing and was searching for my own unique spiritual self.
________________________________________________
I prepared long and hard before telling my family - read books, researched online for how to tell them and how to respond to their FAQs, and they were completely fine (I think they knew). My extended family eventually got over it and now they're great. Can't complain.

BUT THEN I MET HER....
And when my fiancee's came out to her family a few years ago, all hell broke loose! Her mother still calls her on just about a daily basis and harasses her about going to hell and taking the whole family with her if they cant "fix" her. Offered to buy her a car if she'd leave me and go straight, had a priest meet with her, and calls and harasses me whenever she can find an excuse. I'm as polite as an elderly nun when I interact with her - not giving her and excuse not to like me!

When we get married in 2010, we're not sure if anyone from her family will come.

[tdogg]

True. All very true. If- and when- I get that letter, or call, I'll let you know. That said, the octopus tentacles of fundamentalism are a force to be reckoned with. My sense is that she's going to have to take THAT on before she can even THINK about addressing me. And let's not forget that it's been a favorite past-time of modern Christian's to think of themselves as being persecuted. For all I know, I just gave her another reason to follow that line of thought.

She may indeed grow. That would be great. That said, I'm not holding my breath. I'm talking care of myself. As I should. Because, if I don't, it won't happen. Can't be sitting around waiting for Mommy's love. ;)

The life changes you speak of can certainly be a catalyst for change. That said, there is also the real possibility of the turning away from change too.

We all get to choose, don't we?

Love or Fear.

And what's the saying?

Old age is no place for sisses.

I feel for you Daniel. I'm in a similar boat. I do not believe my stepmom will ever be able to have an open mind or heart regarding me or my relationship. I called a couple months ago, to set up a visit with my sister and myself and our father (stroke victim, think I've mentioned this here). The first words out of my mom's mouth - and keep in mind I hadn't spoken with her in a few months - was not to bring 'my friend', as she's not welcome in the house. Nice huh? That's why I stay away for so long, just very very difficult to handle. I truly believe my father would have no issues with my being gay had he been away from her, but at this point it doesn't matter. He's not the man he used to be intellectually, and although he's met my partner (a sneaky when my mom was away) and appears to really like her, I doubt he understands the relationship.

My birth mother seems to be fine with me and my girl, but when I mentioned us getting married, she totally freaked on me. I was shocked. So, where do I go from here??? She's not a religious person, but her sister is (my aunt) and I'm sure my mom has been told all sorts of great stories about how I'm going to hell.

It's totally screwed up, and I certainly hope if there's an afterlife, the people who spread this crap get to see the damage they have helped cause.

I kinda rambled on about myself, but my main point is, there are some people that I just don't see changing or progressing. I believe they are so frantic to maintain their perceived salvation, they shut the door on their own children if they think it's a risk to let them in.

[Daniel]

I feel for you Daniel. I'm in a similar boat. I do not believe my stepmom will ever be able to have an open mind or heart regarding me or my relationship.

I kinda rambled on about myself, but my main point is, there are some people that I just don't see changing or progressing. I believe they are so frantic to maintain their perceived salvation, they shut the door on their own children if they think it's a risk to let them in.

I hear you loud and clear. And you are right, we face the same kind of situation, though my folks haven't said really viscious things for a long while. It just breaks my heart that you have to face that kind of reception, and that you and your Beloved are treated so shabbily.

(((hugs)))

Frantic to maintain their perceived salvation.

That's a line I'm gonna remember for a long while. I think you've touched on something really important here. The degree to which a person's ego can identify with an idea rather than a living breathing person, in this case, one's own flesh and blood.

That's pretty messed up if you ask me! :rolleyes:

[pnggrad79]

I am glad most of you had positive experiences coming out. Unfortunately, mine was not because my fundamentalist family refuses to allow me into any family gathering. My sister recently banned my wife from coming to her son's wedding. Somehow two lesbians just sitting there watching would upset everyone there. Go figure:rolleyes:

I was in Texas City, Texas
I was 38, and married at the time to a man.
The year was 1998.
I was Southern Baptist at the time, now non-denominational. (Actually to borrow a term by RevTheoDyke- I am a recovering Southern Baptist):lol::lol::lol:

But I have come to terms with my sexuality and no matter how my family acts, I am in love with my wife and nothing they say or do will ever get me to forsake my true love and be something that THEY want me to be. It's my life and only I live it. She is who I love and nothing will ever change that.

[Pablo Rafael]

It seems to me from listening to these "coming out" stories that a general theme has emerged. It seems like religion is the key factor as to whether a gay person is accepted by family and friends. Fundamentalist Christianity seems to be the main obstacle to love and acceptance.

It is ironic that a religion that should be based on the love and grace of God should be characterized by legalism and condemnation. I know I am biased, but it is my view that the greatest danger to the church is not the unbelievers on the outside but the fundamentalists within.

[RaymondCharlesWoollcombe]

1. I'm from the UK but live in Malaysia.

2. I was 16 same as i am right now.

3. 2008

4. Christian

So my "Coming Out" experience's have been very positive so far, I have gotten all the support in the world from my mum,Family and my friends and everyone else who knows. It has well and truly been such a great responce to get.I have also not been told that it is a phase by anyone they are all taking me seriously which is making me alot more confident in the area of coming out to people. :)

Peace and Love
Raymond.....:pray:

[Rick336]

But I have come to terms with my sexuality and no matter how my family acts, I am in love with my wife and nothing they say or do will ever get me to forsake my true love and be something that THEY want me to be. It's my life and only I live it. She is who I love and nothing will ever change that.

Way to go pnggrad!! :tup: I admire your courage to live the happy life you know you deserve regardless of what others think.


Rick

[tdogg]

It seems to me from listening to these "coming out" stories that a general theme has emerged. It seems like religion is the key factor as to whether a gay person is accepted by family and friends. Fundamentalist Christianity seems to be the main obstacle to love and acceptance.

It is ironic that a religion that should be based on the love and grace of God should be characterized by legalism and condemnation. I know I am biased, but it is my view that the greatest danger to the church is not the unbelievers on the outside but the fundamentalists within.

Bingo Pablo! It is those within, in a position to influence and teach others. It's not necessarily the congregation, although certainly is perpetuated to a degree. But like me, much of what I was taught growing up, I never truly believed in. But I never said anything to the contrary either. Kept quiet, was a good little Christian soldier and went with the flow. I think a lot of religious people are like that, afraid to confront those in authority.