My confused thought

[prairielesbian]

Hi all!

I have a confused thought that tends to show up every-so-often and guess I need some advice or perhaps a heads up from other seasoned partners that are out there reading this.

I currently have someone in my life that I truly love - like love so much I would marry her. But....we've both been in hurtful money-grabbing-destroy-your-credit relationships where we've both had to start over the hard way.

I've lived and learned from my past and yes, I am cautious but not so cautious that I am self-centered. I'll give as long as I am able to give ie: money, I'll paint that door for you, back rub, a 2 liter of coke etc..etc.. So, I'm a giver!

But I know that my partner is in shock - in shock as in she can't believe that she's met someone nice and normal - she's referring to me people. ;) (I've even talked to her sister about the not-sure feelings, and the sis only tells me that my partner can't believe that I am for real and is waiting for the shoe to drop.) There is not shoe to drop!!!!!!

I do not hide, or deceive, or pretend to be someone that I am not. I'm just me! Down to earth normal and nice.

I have ran across a note from one of her best friends where her friend keeps encouraging her not to be worried in our relationship since I seem really nice, caring, true etc..etc.. Guess behind my back, my partner expresses her worries, only for me to find the friends responses in a hallmark card.

I see this as normal and O.K. since she has been burned in the past. I actually respect that she has these types of worries. She's normal.

I would not hurt a hair on her head and yet she's in that state of not-sure.

I've even told her how much I love her and would not hurt her - only for her to say, "How do you know that?" How does one answer that?

My partner is very quiet (reserved) and at times answers with one word which can be difficult on my behalf. We are both introverts and quiet - me being a little more outgoing and goofy etc..etc..

For her birthday, I bought her a beautiful ring. She loved it (at least I think.) She wore it for a day, and realized that it's a little too big and she did not want to lose it. We both agreed to exchange it.

When we got to the jewlery store a month later to look at other rings or necklaces - she told me that she did not want a ring or a necklace and for me to get my money back. My mouth dropped!

Here, I got a ring for someone that I love and wanted her to know that I loved her etc. etc. etc. and now no ring. To this day, she has nothing from me and doesn't want anything. ???

She bought me a necklace a month after we started dating indicating that she missed my birthday (which is in Jan. -we started dating in Feb) and she missed Valentines day by 3 days. Yes, we've been together since Feb 17th.

So how am I to show my love back to her? How can I put my brand on her? :p How can I let her know that I am for real and not putting on a show? I do everyday things around the house which is a way to show my love, but still - I want something permanent - meaningful.

My partner's family loves me - her nephews, her sister etc..etc.. I fit right in and yet my partner seems so so so....not sure.

I've lived with her since April ( I know seems fast) so she sees me everyday and knows what I do every day. And when we are apart for a day -we miss each other terribly. (I tend to cry!)

At this point today, I feel like we are married - which does not bother me. We haven't had the chance to really "date" since she works and goes to school which she has vented about not having time for me etc..etc.. I do not mind - it's part of the relationship. Again, I support her in everything career wise, education on and on... I'm her biggest supporter/cheerleader.

I'm not one to force someone to talk and I'm not sure how to go about knowing if my partner really loves me, or if I'm just here to comfort and protect her. ????

Help!

[scott snedeker]

One word that shouts my apprehensive alarm:

Attachment!

You have intense love in your heart. We all do,but you are moving very fast. If I were your girlfriend I would already have left.

I was trapped in a nighmare abusive "ATTACHED" relationship for 12 years. He almost killed me when I kicked him out (I was stronger and strangled him unconscious when he broke into my house and attacked me with a Knife)



"I see this as normal and O.K. since she has been burned in the past. I actually respect that she has these types of worries. She's normal."

You have no idea how enormously understated and how offensively trivialized that statement is!!!!!!!!!

That kind of fear is intensely triggered by "making a brand on her." BTW, don't ever say that to her! I had a companion who "kinda did that" after my break up who gave me a very cherished possession for the same reason.

I kinda went back to sleeping with my pistol under my pillow again after putting it back in the drawer a month earlier.

Go very slow and let her make most of the moves if you don't want to reject you out of fear. Give her space she needs it. She may always need it. She may never be your June Cleaver or saddle partner but she can grow with you to love you. Don't blow it.

[u-dog]

PL

You say that both of you have been in relationships that were abusive ... financially if not in other ways. Clearly her trust was violated and she was hurt. Perhaps more hurt than you were or perhaps you are just more resilient than she. Anyway she probably wants to trust and to fall into a relationship but she remembers the pain too vividly ... or at least thats what I imagine. Do think this is accurate?

If that's the case, the only thing you can do is to be patient and continue to care for her quietly and persistently. It may be that your gift pushed some emotional button from her past and felt threatening to her in some way. Perhaps she felt like if she accepted the gift she might not be able to "escape" if you turned out not to be as nice as you seem. If she got "trapped" in a relationship before she might fear it happening again.

Don't worry about buying her something ... there is nothing as valuable or as lasting as a relationship based on trust, faithfulness, and love. You're doing all the right things. it will just take time. :)

[BruceChris]

I just read u-dog and Scott, they have better advice than I do. But you will have to decide what advice will work best for you.

Rushing into living together, hell, rushing into ANYTHING seems to be normal for young people, and lesbians seem to do it faster than anyone. Lynn and I did this 30 plus years ago, and we are still good friends, but only that, now. Come to think of it, Kathy and I did this about 40 years ago, and now we are just friends.

We need, I mean you need to hear from some of the women here. Ladies, where are you?

They're probably PM'ing. I probably should have PM'ed this. I just cut and PM'ed the long version.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[prairielesbian]

All I'm going to do is lay low and live my life as she lives hers. We do our own independent things, (so we are not attached at the hips) - this is not a controlling relationship.

I am not forcing her to love me, or vice versa. We are both in a casual relationship and enjoying the fact that we are not "using" each other.

My partner has told me that she's kinda leery, since I am so normal and nice - something she has never had in a past relationship. (She has also cried in my arms so I can imagine her past pains!) I know it'll take time on her behalf to know me for me, and I'm willing to sit it out. BTW, I'm amazed that "I" found someone normal! We are both in "shock" land...

When she needs to talk - I'm always there for her. That's my job!

And note to Scott - I'm sorry to hear about your dangerous past, but for me and my partner - moving fast happened. Heck... some people get married in 3 weeks after meeting and have a long life together. So, I do not question our fast move in. We happen to like our living situation....she was the one that told me to move in - she was the one that bought me jewelry first - so that does tells me something. :)

My main concern is how to ease the thoughts of my partner - I'm not going to leave her, I'm not going to "use" her, etc..etc.. that is what she's worried about.

All I can do is leave it alone I guess and let her develop on her own. Agree?

It really sucks how past (bad) relationships can ruin one's soul and desire to move on......

[tdogg]

Rushing into living together, hell, rushing into ANYTHING seems to be normal for young people, and lesbians seem to do it faster than anyone. Lynn and I did this 30 plus years ago, and we are still good friends, but only that, now. Come to think of it, Kathy and I did this about 40 years ago, and now we are just friends.


Wow, BruceChris, you ARE a lesbian! :eek::D:love: Cool!

Hi PL

Chalk up some of your feelings to being a girl, being a lesbian and then the rest to being young and not quite as experienced as some of us older folk - in other words, you haven't had as many bad relationships (hopefully)! In general, it's always good to look for helpful books, workbooks, things that you can do alone and some that you and your partner can do together. One author (and therapist) has written some good ones - Dr. Betty Berzon (a fellow lesbian and very talented writer/conveyor). One thing that really struck me in reading her books was one statement. Being in love doesn't mean you have to really like your partner every moment of every day.

In regards to your current situation, it does take time to gain trust, especially if the person you want to trust you has been hurt/burned in the past. Yes, some take longer to trust than others. Sometimes a person may never fully trust anyone. But the key to a relationship is communication, so if only one is communicating, it's difficult to sort things out. You might want to see what research you can do on fostering communication, so that you can work on presenting an atmosphere for your partner, where she feels safe to speak her mind and heart. That means, listening (really listening), try to understand and empathize (even if you don't agree), and don't take negatives as a personal affront. Rather look at it as improving and moving forward. Basically, if she has something to say that you don't like, she's going to need to be 100% sure you won't blow up, otherwise, the line of communication is completely gone.

I speak from experience, as in my past relationship I said very little to nothing. My partner is working with me, and I've improved greatly. It's taken some time, but I feel more and more safe, and I'm learning that it's ok for her not to like what I'm saying, but I must say it. Happily, that doesn't happen often! I can't stress enough that your partner must learn to feel absolutely safe in communicating. One thing that works with me, but is a little more work on your part, is noticing the subtleties that indicate something is on her mind. Gently and lovingly bring it up and see what happens. It might take some urging. It's a start.

We must also realize, as women we are more emotional and quicker to forge emotional bonds with others (especially other women). Even infatuation can seem like true love sometimes, though not to say you aren't in love. It's just good to be aware that we tend to fall hard and fast.

Good luck, and much love!

[andrewlittle]

... I think I would like you very much if we met in person. It's easy to be somebody "different" in cyberspace, but that does not strike me as true for you. I read sincerity and truthfulness in the words you write.

Others have given you good advice which, just like what I might say, is worth whatever you may or may not glean from it. Since I'm getting back into a writing mood, after a long dry spell, I'll offer some thoughts.

I see this as normal and O.K. since she has been burned in the past. I actually respect that she has these types of worries. She's normal.
You have both been burned in the past, according to what you wrote before this. We each have different ways of reacting to and dealing with our past pains and damages, and it sounds as if yours is significantly different than your partner's. How do yours play out? It may be that yours come out in an opposite way - perhaps being a more open to taking risks because you realize that you didn't lose an arm or leg in the previous situation. If this is true, then we share that pattern.

That, however, would be a reaction as strongly felt as your partner's - just significantly different. Your comment could be heard as diminutive, but that doesn't feel like what you intended. If you want her to examine how she is responding, in the current relationship, to her past experiences it is incumbent on you to do the same. Then you can talk about how your reactions dovetail or conflict with each other. It wouldn't sound like, "this is her problem, but I understand it."

I would not hurt a hair on her head and yet she's in that state of not-sure.

I've even told her how much I love her and would not hurt her - only for her to say, "How do you know that?" How does one answer that?
You can't because it is not true. You can say, if you feel it, "I believe I would not knowingly hurt you." You are not in control of what may hurt her - do cannot control how she responds to different situations, so you cannot say you will not hurt her. You may do it inadvertantly, but you can indeed hurt her even if that is not your intent. Her reaction to what you said is actually quite emotionally mature, considering she has been hurt in the past.

Extreme language (i.e. using words like "never" or "always", or guaranteeing something you cannot guarantee like "I won't hurt you") can ring bells for people who have heard that before but suffered anyway. You may have played into an old soundtrack that runs in her head. And it would not be irrational or her problem if that occurred.

State clearly only that which you can say for certain, or state what you would like as your "wish" or "hope."

Likewise with the ring. She bought you a gift knowing what she knows about what she meant with that gift. Do you know what she meant with her gift? She does not know what you know about what you meant with your gift. You do not know what she felt when you gave her the gift. There's a lot of unknowing in those intimate transactions - and a lot of opportunity for exploring those feelings and reactions as long as it is done lovingly and sensitively.

You might begin by saying, "This is what your gift meant to me - what it said to me. Is that what you intended?" Depending on the answer, and the interest in pursuing the conversation, you can then talk about what you intended with your gift. More importantly for your effort to understand her reaction, you can ask what she felt about it. If you can have this conversation, you will be discussing each of your actual feelings, as opposed to each of your assumptions about the morives, intentions and feelings of the other.

So how am I to show my love back to her? How can I put my brand on her? :p How can I let her know that I am for real and not putting on a show? I do everyday things around the house which is a way to show my love, but still - I want something permanent - meaningful.

In a quiet, intimate way - ask her without, as others said, using the concept of brand at all. You might also investigate before hand what "brand" means to you and use language that is more accurate or descriptive. "Brand", to most people, has a connotation of "ownership". You may know you didn't mean that, but does anyone else?

Also, do not underestimate what may be meaningful to her - ask her. Do not assume that she knows what is meaningful to you - tell her.

I'm not one to force someone to talk and I'm not sure how to go about knowing if my partner really loves me, or if I'm just here to comfort and protect her. ????
You have just voiced a very legitimate need - you want to know if your partner loves you, or if you are "just here to comfort and protect her". Before expecting her to answer that need, however, examine what it means to you.

For many, comforting and protecting are not in an "either/or" conflict with loving - these are inextricably intertwined with love. You MAY NOT (I don't know this, I'm just stabbing in the dark) feel a need to be comforted or protected, therefore you would not recognize these as loving acts if offered to you. The same would not be true for others.

It has been said that "knowing" falls into three categories - that which you know you know, that which you know you don't know and, the overwhelming category, that which you don't know you don't know. The trick is to move as many things from the third category into the first or second, because the third category is what breeds assumption, projection and misunderstanding. Work towards finding out what you don't know, and maybe your partner will do likewise. Just don't put too much emphasis on finding the exact answer - sometimes just knowing what you don't know is enough.

[prairielesbian]

I don't even know where to start with all the great advice. Glad I opened up and shared my "confused thoughts".

Yes I re-read my past threads above, and I did use some poor word choices....and being in cyberspace it is hard to really get my side of the story told without sounding well...overly great and desperate.

There were some suggestions brought to my attention that were not relevant at all, and then there was some that I never even considered - so thanks for pulling me out of my box even further.

Yesterday after my partner came home from work, the first thing she needed and wanted was a hug - she initiated it. Again, when she went to bed for the night, she called me into the room and just wanted to hug and hold me and didn't want to let go.

We're O.K... :)

An extra note: My partner has been struggling with a health issue for quite a while and hasn't been feeling well - which may explain her withdrawal. I know when I am not feeling well, I just want to take to the bed and die.

Andrew if you're out there - I'd be honored if we ever met. Perhaps go out for a good cup of coffee.

BTW... I love you people!

[Daniel]

Others have said really valuable things which it would be important to remember. That said, what hasn't been said yet is the simple fact that you are living together. This, in itself, can change one's perception of things, being both- potentially- helpful or harmful. As such, my feeling is that one has to work at unveiling one's blindspot(s) when in relationship. And that- when one is in the full flush of attraction- can be really hard.

What to do?

Many years ago, a counselor gave me a really interesting exercise to do which addresses the matter of how one 'knows' one's own feelings as well one's connection with another person.

All one has to is breath deeply while silently watching the person one is with- paying attention to the feeling in one's solar plexus. If the relationship is a really good one, no matter what is happening, there will be a deep seated sense of calm there- irrespective of the chatter of the conscious mind. As such, our bodies give us unvarnished information all the time. But that information is often edited out. The point here being to 'listen' to what is really going on.

I also encourage you to meditate- get quiet- whatever brings you to a state of inner repose. This is another way to figure out what to do and what not to do. This is something which one has to practice in a progressive manner. But the effect is global. It will help you understand not only yourself, but your partner too.

[prairielesbian]

.

All one has to is breath deeply while silently watching the person one is with- paying attention to the feeling in one's solar plexus. If the relationship is a really good one, no matter what is happening, there will be a deep seated sense of calm there- irrespective of the chatter of the conscious mind. As such, our bodies give us unvarnished information all the time. But that information is often edited out. The point here being to 'listen' to what is really going on.



I already find myself sitting quietly and silently watching my partner (every-so-often) and all I feel is calm. No red flags, or black flags or even green flags go up. This is good right???

Maybe the both of us need to find a good relationship book to open us both up. :confused:

[Daniel]

I already find myself sitting quietly and silently watching my partner (every-so-often) and all I feel is calm. No red flags, or black flags or even green flags go up. This is good right???

Maybe the both of us need to find a good relationship book to open us both up. :confused:

I know several books for gay men. And that, unfortunately, isn't any help! However, there must be ones that deal with the issues that women who are together face. Bet you anything that Vanessa, Tdogg and Zerbie will know what is out there. And if I remember correctly, I believe Betty Berzon (she goes way back) has written some stuff that might be helpful.

I think you are on the right track here. That is, getting more information and strategies for communication.

[Zerbie]

Sorry ta letcha down, Danny, but I have never done relationships by the book. Any book. I'm pretty sure I haven't even read one self-help book about how to do relationships. I just go on instinct. It has worked well for me.

And maybe that's more to the point than studying books. Even the people writing the books have had their struggles. What makes sense is to go by what works for you and your partner. I think Daniel's intuitive suggestion is more along the lines of something which will be helpful, more than a book.

That said, maybe reading some books on relationship could clarify the kinds of the things that went on in those prior (abusive) relationships, and help you both learn skills towards steering away from all that.

As to the initial question of proving that you won't hurt her: you can't prove a future negative. Can't happen.
Only building up a repertoire of successful communications during the course of the relationship will start predicting that future communications will be successful also. Once there is a positive track record, trust in the future becomes more possible.

[tymejumper]

My main concern is how to ease the thoughts of my partner - I'm not going to leave her, I'm not going to "use" her, etc..etc.. that is what she's worried about.

All I can do is leave it alone I guess and let her develop on her own. Agree?

It really sucks how past (bad) relationships can ruin one's soul and desire to move on......


Prairie, I am in the same type of thing. My wife was sorely used, abused and never once had a faithful mate. I was in an abusive relationship with my ex-husband for 18 years(married really young). We both find it very hard to trust. Every once and a while I will ask her how much she trusts me on a percentage base. I am up to 80% from 60% last year. I trust her about the same!:lol::lol::lol:. All you can do is talk talk talk and support each other. She is probably waiting for the other shoe to drop. I know Ellie was ans still is sometimes. We have to negotiate and talk over every aspect of our relationship. If I go with friends, to the bar or whatever, she does not ask I call her, but I do out of respect for her. I come home when I say I will and I kiss her before I shower because if I were cheating, she would smell perfume or something on me. We split the bank accounts, I pay daily bills, she pays for the house and insurance. We each have to count on each other or we will have no place to live and we will lose the gas, electric etc. I make sure my paycheck stub is on the table for her to see, as she does me.

Unfortunately, time is what it takes, and lots of open communication. We knew right away we were for each other. We even joked about one of us bringing a U-Haul for our second date!:lol::lol::lol:

[prairielesbian]

We knew right away we were for each other. We even joked about one of us bringing a U-Haul for our second date!:lol::lol::lol:


The U-Haul thing was brought up also on our end - we joked, we laughed at it and what do you know....after a few months later, I'm living with her - it being her suggestion. (Used no U-haul)

My partner and I are two down to earth people that happened to be used in the past - yes the past sucked!

The ironic part - we both have education in the mental health field - and here we are.....wondering about ourselves. ;)

Really, it's all good and like you said Tyme - it'll all take time, and I have all the time in this world for this woman - I really care deeply for her.

[Rick336]

Only building up a repertoire of successful communications during the course of the relationship will start predicting that future communications will be successful also. Once there is a positive track record, trust in the future becomes more possible.

I agree with Zerbie, Daniel and Tdogg here about the importance of communication. If there's a problem with communication there will likely be a problem with trust. When trust is on shaky ground, that's when the problems usually start.

But it sounds like you're on the right track. Being there for her and being a good listener is a good start.

Rick