right-wing Catholicism

[gman620]

Hey everyone. I haven't been on here in a while, and it's good to be back.

Anyway, I'm seeking everyone's thoughts about the apparent shift of younger Catholics toward right-wing, "the-Church-is-never-wrong" Catholicism. Does anyone else get the impression that most affirming Catholic priests tend to be older while younger priests seem to be getting more and more anti-gay? My local diocesan newspaper says more Catholics are "embracing orthodoxy" (read: anti-gay). I've also read in this newspaper that religious communities that "embrace authentic church teachings" (anti-gay) are flourishing while "liberal" communities (pro-gay) are dying. They also mock the Episcopalian Church, which they say is dying out since it embraced "moral relativism" (one has to admit that it has lost a lot of members over the years). Just go onto yahoo.com and type in "Gay catholic" and see all the negative, right-wing blogs of angry Catholics ranting against pro-gay Catholic "heretics" and "dissenters."

I hope my perceptions are incorrect, because if there's any truth to all of this, it will cause me great anxiety. I'd hate to think that gay Catholics like me will have an even harder time locating affirming priests and laity in the future. Things are tough enough now. I guess what I'm hoping for is for someone to give another perspective on all of this. I'm hoping I'm wrong!

[Alecto]

My take is just a guess, but if those trends are in fact shifting, I would actually blame it more on a shift in who identifies as "Catholic" and not an actual shift in attitudes, as it were. I think the current pope, the sex abuse scandals (and the current pope's treatment of the sex abuse scandals: blame the gays!) and probably a few other factors are all seeing a fair decrease in Catholics too. I'm surprised they mock the Episcopalians, because they're definitely headed the same direction.

So, my guess is that folks who are GLBT themselves, or who are allies, are finding more and more reason to leave the church (as more and more of us come out, and the church gets more and more involved in fighting against equality). And that means that the folks who are left are the folks who are training the younger priests and it all kind of escalates exponentially from there.

[gman620]

My take is just a guess, but if those trends are in fact shifting, I would actually blame it more on a shift in who identifies as "Catholic" and not an actual shift in attitudes, as it were. I think the current pope, the sex abuse scandals (and the current pope's treatment of the sex abuse scandals: blame the gays!) and probably a few other factors are all seeing a fair decrease in Catholics too. I'm surprised they mock the Episcopalians, because they're definitely headed the same direction.

So, my guess is that folks who are GLBT themselves, or who are allies, are finding more and more reason to leave the church (as more and more of us come out, and the church gets more and more involved in fighting against equality). And that means that the folks who are left are the folks who are training the younger priests and it all kind of escalates exponentially from there.


That's an interesting perspective on this issue. I wonder how LGBT Catholics can stop it, or if we can at all.

[Daniel]

From all that I have read over the past decade, surveys and social research indicates that younger people are more accepting of those who are gay. So I am wondering if your Catholic paper is printing what amounts to propoganda and not fact.

As it is, I have read that American Catholics don't exactly follow the lead of the Pope. They nod yes and do as they please.

Of course, I could be absolutely mistaken about these perceptions, but it does seem rather counterintuitive to suppose that younger people are becoming more conservative. Sounds like a wish on the part of older people who are conservative.

As the saying goes: projection makes for perception.

[kara speltz]

Hey everyone. I haven't been on here in a while, and it's good to be back.

Anyway, I'm seeking everyone's thoughts about the apparent shift of younger Catholics toward right-wing, "the-Church-is-never-wrong" Catholicism. Does anyone else get the impression that most affirming Catholic priests tend to be older while younger priests seem to be getting more and more anti-gay? My local diocesan newspaper says more Catholics are "embracing orthodoxy" (read: anti-gay). I've also read in this newspaper that religious communities that "embrace authentic church teachings" (anti-gay) are flourishing while "liberal" communities (pro-gay) are dying. They also mock the Episcopalian Church, which they say is dying out since it embraced "moral relativism" (one has to admit that it has lost a lot of members over the years). Just go onto yahoo.com and type in "Gay catholic" and see all the negative, right-wing blogs of angry Catholics ranting against pro-gay Catholic "heretics" and "dissenters."

I hope my perceptions are incorrect, because if there's any truth to all of this, it will cause me great anxiety. I'd hate to think that gay Catholics like me will have an even harder time locating affirming priests and laity in the future. Things are tough enough now. I guess what I'm hoping for is for someone to give another perspective on all of this. I'm hoping I'm wrong!

From everything that I've read American Catholics are much more progressive than the Vatican. Over 60% support women's ordination, at least half disagree with the church around LGBT issues and something like 70% disagree with its dogma on birth control.

I came back to the church some 20 years ago when I found a fabulous parish where all are welcome at the table. I don't believe we're that different from many other parishes from what I'm hearing.

The local bishop here is an Opus Dei bishop, but the diocese is so progressive he's not been able to have a major effect; Praise God!

Kara

[BruceChris]

And not very much of a Catholic at all. But for a refreshing look at modern day Catholicism, just Google "Womenpriests Movement". (They may open the door to a differing treatment of gays)

It is my impression that not every Catholic organization out there is all that much of a Roman Catholic one. But I do strongly suspect that many of them are making the heirarchy realize more and more that their followers are not following their lead all that closely.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[BrianB]

I think there has been a swing toward conservatism in European and South American parishes since Vatican II. It seems to be a response to the changes in catholic churches (ie. rock Masses, optional habits for nuns, Masses not in Latin, and so on...) That is what I have read in the newspaper.
People don't seem to be going to the neighborhood parish in my area so much as going to a parish that fits their idealogy. Those that want latin Mass go to one church. Those that want rock Mass to another church. Unfortunately, the local catholic Dignity meeting has become strictly a place to "hook-up". They really don't seem to care about the liturgy at all. There is one other open and affirming parish in my area; but it's entirely made up of lesbians. No male persons wanted.

[Pablo Rafael]

This is just anecdotal evidence, but what I have seen in my area supports your idea. Around here the older priests seem more progressive and the younger ones are more conservative. I don't know if it is a trend toward conservatism or not. It has seemed to me that oftentimes people get less rigid in their dogmas as they get older and experience life. Maybe it is a case of older priests becoming more progressive.

Also agree with the statements that American Catholics are more progressive than the official teaching would lead one to think. Parishoners in the pews are becoming more gay-accepting, and I think that slowly the church as a whole will as well. I loved Pope John Paul II, but his conservative stance has set the tone of the church and will continue to influence it for years to come. (We need another Pope like John XXIII.)

[tymejumper]

My take is just a guess, but if those trends are in fact shifting, I would actually blame it more on a shift in who identifies as "Catholic" and not an actual shift in attitudes, as it were. I think the current pope, the sex abuse scandals (and the current pope's treatment of the sex abuse scandals: blame the gays!) and probably a few other factors are all seeing a fair decrease in Catholics too. I'm surprised they mock the Episcopalians, because they're definitely headed the same direction.

So, my guess is that folks who are GLBT themselves, or who are allies, are finding more and more reason to leave the church (as more and more of us come out, and the church gets more and more involved in fighting against equality). And that means that the folks who are left are the folks who are training the younger priests and it all kind of escalates exponentially from there.




I think that alot of it has to do with the shift in Popes. John Paul was a wonderful man, even though Catholic, he was not as conservative and also tried to 'bend with the times' He tried to understand things and was funny and open.(for a pope that is). He was more like Mother Teresa. I think this new one is very uptight and not so flexable. I do know some younger Catholics, and it seems the ones I know are ot so into listening to the Pope. I don't know if it's the people I know, or in general.

[BishopIoan]

I have noticed this whilst perusing the "Catholic Answers" website. The posts and opinions are far to the right of what I saw in the 70s. I think that more and more Catholics who do not agree with this point of view have started to look for other faith communities. And, of course, much of the generation which was actively invovled in movements for change within the Church are passing on.

It should be interesting to see where this whole thing with the Latin Mass is going. I used to be quite right-wing and was a Tridentine Catholic for several years before becoming Orhtodox, which lead to my becoming more and more liberal. When I was still attending the Tridentine (Latin) Mass, it seemed to be a catchall for right-wingers, both political and religiously.

However, the one bright spot, as pointed out by previous posters is that the American Church is more progressive than the rest of the Church. I for one would LOVE to see women priests in Catholicism as that might well open the door on better treatment of LGBT Catholics. I do think that, barring the election of a forward-looking Pope, the American Church may just decide to go its own way--which would probably be a good thing in the long run.

[antiochian]

The Newman Center on my former campus had a younger priest who was indeed conservative, and he drew quite a crowd... Does anyone ever watch EWTN (the Catholic cable/satellite channel)? Have to admit I like to tune in from time to time, there are some good programs, but this would be an example of right-wing Catholicism. Two popular speakers on this tv channel are Mother Angelica and Fr. John Corapi, I love them both dearly but they parrot the pope when it comes to anything lgbt.