Democratic Convention

[Daniel]

So- I'm watching (God Bless Me!) the Democratic Convention- speeches and all. Oh....it's slow going...I have to say. Nancy Pelosi has spoken et al. Inquiring minds (this inquiring mind anyway) want to know: what do you make of the whole thing? Are you tuning in? Watching? And if so, what do you make of the Convention?

You know, it used to be that a Convention was a time (and this is pre- TV) when choosing a candidate happened in real time, that is, at the convention itself. Nowaways, the event amounts to a coronation. A sign of the time perhaps? Of course, we won't be going back to be bad old days, will we? LOL That said, it would be nice to have some true excitement. And this evening may prove - or so I have heard- to have some. And that is the presence of the arch-liberal Edward Kennedy- who may give the rally cry for change. And he- more than anyone at the moment- may understand the poignancy of change.

Are you watching?

[Rick336]

I've also been watching the Democratic Convention. Nancy Pelosi's speech was generic and not too moving. I like Pelosi but she's not a great speechmaker.

However, Ted Kennedy gave a very moving speech and got the delegates onto their feet waving signs and cheering.

I liked it when Kennedy said tonight:

"There is a new wave of change all around us, and if we set our compass true, we will reach our destination. Not merely a victory for our party but renewal for our nation. And this November, the torch will be passed to a new generation of Americans. So with Barack Obama, and for you and for me, our country will be committed to his cause. The hope rises again and the dream lives on."

I think as the week progresses there will be even more energy and excitement among the delegates with the climax on Thursday night when Obama makes his acceptance speech.

This country is starving for change after eight years of Bush and I think Obama is the right man for the job.

Rick

[Eugene]

Are you tuning in? Watching?

Nope. I voted for Hillary Clinton. The Democrats can't count on my vote for anybody else. I wanted to vote for McCain in 2000, so I guess I'll get to do so 8 years later.

[u-dog]

You can't wait to live through 4 more years of Republicans pissing all over the constitution in the name of God? You are eager for four more years of Don't ask Don't tell? You are looking forward to four more years of playing "Climate Change Chicken"? You enjoy the spectacle of the President of the United States playing whore to the oil industry? You are willing to wait an additional four years for progress on civil rights for GLBT folks? You are eagerly anticipating another term of body bags coming home in secret from Iraq?

Or do you just want punish the other democrats who didn't vote for your candidate? I supported Barack from the beginning, but if Hilary had won the primary battle her name would now be all over the back of my car and on the sign in front of my house. If a turnip had won the democratic nomination, its picture would be on the bumper of my car because this country CANNOT AFFORD ANOTHER REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION.

yikes.

[Daniel]

Nope. I voted for Hillary Clinton. The Democrats can't count on my vote for anybody else. I wanted to vote for McCain in 2000, so I guess I'll get to do so 8 years later.

I voted for Clinton myself. Thought- and still think- she was a good candidate. Too bad she didn't win. But as they say, that is how the cookie crumbles.

Eugene- you say you are going to vote for McCain. I guess that surprises me. Are you aware that he supports writing discrimination into the the Arizona Constitution?

Re last night: I thought Senator Kennedy gave a very rousing speech. His support for health care for everyone is unwavering. And I admire that. That his own health in danger at the moment only made his appearance more important. I've had a close friend die of the very same brain cancer: it's nothing to sniff at, believe me. A very aggressive and nasty business. I may not be able to vote for him. But he has my prayers.

[Matt Algren]

Nope. I voted for Hillary Clinton. The Democrats can't count on my vote for anybody else. I wanted to vote for McCain in 2000, so I guess I'll get to do so 8 years later.
One of McCain's requirements for a VP is that s/he be anti-gay. He said so himself.

I think it’s a fundamental tenet of our party to be pro-life but that does not mean we exclude people from our party that are pro-choice. We just have a–albeit strong–but just it’s a disagreement. And I think Ridge is a great example of that. Far moreso than Bloomberg, because Bloomberg is pro-gay rights, pro, you know, a number of other issues.

http://blog.mattalgren.com/2008/08/john-mccains-vp-search-anti-gay-or-the-highway/

[dsdrane]

Yep...Dash and I have been watching, albeit via live feed on our computer as we don't have cable. It's incredibly refreshing to watch it all with no Chris Matthews, et al., yammering on, explaining it all for us. If you're interested, check it out here (http://www.demconvention.com/).

Maybe it was the gin, but, honestly, I was a blubbering mess when Ted Kennedy was speaking. Lord, I love that man! :love::love:

I also thought Michelle managed to do exactly what she needed to do: debunk the Angela Davis stereotype. It always annoys me when intelligent, strong women have to soften themselves to be palatable to the masses (remember Hillary and her cookies), but, here, the end justifies the means. And better still, she didn't have to be disingenuous to do it.

And the girls were adorable! That's got to play well in Peoria. :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Maybe it was the gin, but, honestly, I was a blubbering mess when Ted Kennedy was speaking. Lord, I love that man! :love::love:

Here's what Kennedy went through in order to attend the Convention and speak.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/us/politics/27kennedy.html?hp


Determined to Give Speech, Kennedy Left Hospital Bed

By ADAM NAGOURNEY
Published: August 26, 2008
DENVER — Senator Edward M. Kennedy had just left a hospital bed here when he delivered his speech to the Democratic National Convention on Monday night, after suffering a debilitating bout of kidney stones Sunday upon arriving in town, aides said.

Mr. Kennedy’s aides described a harrowing 48-hour period in which it appeared that Mr. Kennedy would not be able to give the convention speech. In June, he had told family members when he left the Duke University Medical Center, where he was operated on for brain cancer, that he was intent on giving the speech.

The man certainly is determined! Wow!

[pnggrad79]

:rolleyes:I was still in the closet 4 years ago when Bush was elected and I am ashamed to admit I voted for that idiot. Not anymore. You couldn't pay me enough money to vote for him or anyone like him (McCain). I wasn't necessarily a Clinton fan, I didn't like her husband. And I thought and still think gays and lesbians have the best chance to win partial civil rights with Obama in office. I guess we will see if he lives up to his promise to us... But they all lie, so what can I say. Like I said, Obama is the best chance we have for any kind of marriage recognition and civil rights in this backward country.:rolleyes:

[u-dog]

Hilary really knocked it out of the park!! WooHoo!! You go girl!

[Rick336]

Hilary really knocked it out of the park!! WooHoo!! You go girl!

I agree. Hillary's speech was awesome, that's for sure. But I expect Obama's speech on Thursday night to bring the house down. He really knows how to move a crowd.

Rick

[nmwolfboy]

We're watching it in our household. Thank God for Cspan, since it spares us having to listen to the blowhard commentators & pundits. And we actually get to hear all the speeches given on the floor, if we choose, instead of only the parts that cable news wants to showcase.

Highlight speeches for me thus far: Michelle Obama, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and Brian Schweitzer (what a pep rally leader he is!)

Is anyone going to an Obama watch party Thurday evening? Wes & i likely will attend one down in the village.

Pax,
scott :wave:

[u-dog]

Some of the pundits are saying that Hillary's speech fell short last night because it was too much about Hillary and not enough about Obama. As an Obama supporter from the beginning I DISAGREE with this assessment and here's why:

Hillary's main audience was HER supporters and her job was to communicate her AUTHENTIC support for Obama and to encourage them to follow her there. If her supporters had seen her speech as a party-line, "Rah-Rah for Obama" speech it would have failed. They would have seen her as "just doing her job" for the party. To be effective she HAD to talk about herself and her aspirations for the country and she had to talk about her supporters and THEIR aspirations for the nation and then put Obama forward as the best vehicle for those aspirations.

I think she did all that extremely effectively. What do you all think?

[Matt Algren]

I can't stand Hillary Clinton's delivery.

[Daniel]

I can't stand Hillary Clinton's delivery.

It seemed, by far, the most exciting speech all night.

Loved the orange pantsuit too. Loved the way she wove stories about real Americans into her pitch to supporters to back Obama. Of course, it was a shrewd move too. If he loses, she has placed herself in the running in 2012.

What I don't understand is the animus that is directed towards her. Mind you Matt, I'm not saying you have any. But it reminds me that many do. And I wonder why that is: Clinton just seems to rub some the wrong way. People seem to either love her or hate her.

But you know what? As a senator in NY, she's done a good job, convincing even the staunches critics in her bid for a second term. She went the distance in getting out to every county and meeting with folks in real time. I simply wish her campaign for President had been handled better: I think she had some hubris about winning- and underestimated her rival. A lesson learned? I hope so.

[nmwolfboy]

I think she did all that extremely effectively. What do you all think?

I think she was superb. If she had consistently presented herself like that during the primary, I might have voted for her over Senator Obama. And in the interest of full disclosure, neither Clinton nor Obama were my first or second choices, at least not until Kucinich and Edwards dropped out.

I'm looking forward to tonight's speech from President Clinton. :weee:

-scott

[dsdrane]

I thought she was fantastic. And, as much as I love Joe Biden -- and I do -- her speech last night made me even more disappointed that the dream ticket didn't materialize. :(

Obama is indebted to her, like, forever. :cool:

After Hillary, my next favorite speech, hands down, was Brian Schweitzer's. What a fun guy! :D

[BruceChris]

And, among the minorities that she specifically mentioned needing to be included in our national conversation was the Gay Community. She raised a small cheer from the audience as she mentioned us.

Edit: And Bill also mentioned us, favorably.

I predict that hell will freeze over more than once before John McCain says anything like that.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[Eugene]

Eugene- you say you are going to vote for McCain. I guess that surprises me. Are you aware that he supports writing discrimination into the the Arizona Constitution?

You mean, I suppose, that he is opposed to gay marriage? So are a lot of Democrats.

I would only be disturbed if he opposed my right to gainful employment because I am gay.

I voted only on the abortion issue when I was a young, conservative Baptist. Now that I'm a middle-aged, moderate homosexual, I have decided NOT to do that on the issue of gay rights. There are far more pressing things -- like keeping the American debt economy from collapsing (and taking the Western world down with it). Not sure that either candidate has the know-how to do that.

[nmwolfboy]

I would only be disturbed if he opposed my right to gainful employment because I am gay.


Are you aware that John McCain cast a deciding vote against the Employment Non-discrimination Act (ENDA) which would have provided protection for LGBT people against job discrimination?

Pax, :dove:
scott

McCain's opposition to ENDA: Washington Post, Oct. 1, 2007
McCain's deciding vote against ENDA: Vote #281, Sept. 10, 1996

[Daniel]

You mean, I suppose, that he is opposed to gay marriage? So are a lot of Democrats.

And a lot of white people - on both sides of the aisle- don't like blacks. Does that mean we should role back civil rights?

I would only be disturbed if he opposed my right to gainful employment because I am gay

The previous post notes McCain's record on this issue.

As the saying goes....with friend's like that...

Eugene- Now would be a good time to get disturbed.

[tpdncr4christ]

I love the democratic convention! OMG, Hillary's speech was phenomenal, and I think it really helped the party. It seems to me that the country really wants significant distance from these last eight years, we don't want to be associated with a president who engineered a war, destroyed the American economy and almost tripled the deficit. No one wants another Bush, and that's a good thing. Obama is a big unknown, and I mean, a BIG unknown. We have very little experience with him in a large public office to understand how he reacts under stress, what he does to get things done, and how he accomplishes his goals. We know that he is a fantastic speaker, rivaling perhaps even Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, but that's about it.

I'm actually rather glad he chose Bidden for his running mate, because Bidden brings the experience to the ticket that few other candidates would have. Early in the race, when Bidden was still in the primaries, he mapped out a clear exit strategy from Iraq, something which I am grateful to be on Obama's side.

I really wish Obama wasn't the canidate though, because I know just how flawed he is. There are allot of areas that he cannot win, big important areas with lots of electoral votes, that Hillary won by a landslide. She may not have won the majority of the votes, but she did win the strongest votes. If you look at a map, Hillary covered all of the areas that the democrats need to make it to the white house. It was an arrogant decision not to include her as vice president.

I must say, my favorite part of Hillary's speech, one that hasn't received too much attention to my knowledge, is when she said, "No way, no how, no Mcain." I love it. It was beautiful.

But I am looking forward to Obama's speech tomorrow, I expect it to be one of the defining speeches of his campaign. Because we've come to expect so much from him, if he doesn't deliver it could deal a powerful blow to his numbers late in the campaign. But if he comes out strong, that speech will be one that people remember. Hopefully...

[u-dog]

Austin!!! Good to see you! I don't think you need to worry about Obama's speech. The man is nothing if not a skilled wordsmith. I was not that enthusiastic about Biden (I was still holding out hope for Hillary) but after last night's speech I think he is JUST the right person to soothe the fears of white catholic voters. He has the skill and the relationships to be able to rip out McCain's throat without appearing disrespectful. AND he has a son on his way to Iraq. that can't hurt. Though I am ready for this election to be over I think the last months of the campaign are going to be fun. I can't WAIT for the debates.

[u-dog]

And how about Bill Clinton's speech!!??? He used his position as a former president to articulate clearly and strongly why the Bush administration has been a world class disaster for this country (not to mention this planet) I hope to hear more and more speeches like that. It was a classic "The emperor has no clothes" speech.

The record is clear:

George Bush is evil
GB is a war criminal
GB is an incompetant
GB is a whore to big oil
GB is a liar
GB is a tyrant in sheep's clothing
GB is an embarrassment

and McCain is his lapdog.

I want to hear this speech over and over again until America GETS IT

[Zerbie]

There are far more pressing things -- like keeping the American debt economy from collapsing (and taking the Western world down with it).

By itself, an excellent reason NOT to support McCain. He recently stated that he doesn't understand economics. Did he also say that he thinks the economy is doing just fine? I thought I heard some references to that at the convention.

[Rick336]

Did he also say that he thinks the economy is doing just fine? I thought I heard some references to that at the convention.

I think what they're referring to at the Democratic Convention is the quote McCain made during the debate in South Carolina when he said:

“I don’t believe we’re headed into a recession. I believe the fundamentals of this economy are strong and I believe they will remain strong.”

Rick

[u-dog]

By itself, an excellent reason NOT to support McCain. He recently stated that he doesn't understand economics. Did he also say that he thinks the economy is doing just fine? I thought I heard some references to that at the convention.


Exactly Zerbie. This economy is going to implode because the Republicans have engaged in war that they are unwilling to pay for. we hear a lot about borrowing from China to Pay Saudi Arabia? how about borrowing from China in order to pay Halliburton?

The Iraq war costs TEN BILLION DOLLARS A MONTH !!!! That is the equivalent of buying TWO NIMITZ CLASS AIRCRAFT CARRIERS EVERY MONTH !! We cannot afford this war ! How well it is going or whether we are acheiving our objectives ... is irrelevant.

And the TEN BILLION doesn't include replacement costs for equipment that is being worn out and destroyed and doesn't include the VETERANS benefits that we will be paying for the next 60 years and it doesn't include the social costs that will be incurred as thousands of PTSD afflicted Vets come home and start abusing their wives and children.

It also doesn't include Opportunity costs (what else you might do with your military if you weren't doing that) Do you think Putin would have invaded Georgia if he didn't know that we are tied up in Iraq? Not a chance.

The Bush/Republican agenda is a total failure -- a fiasco in every aspect of American public life. Now would indeed be a good time to get disturbed.

Gosh... I wish I could whip up some passion around this election ... ;)

[Rick336]

how about borrowing from China in order to pay Halliburton?

But that's just good business, at least for Halliburton stockholders.

The last report I saw in 2007, Cheney holds 100,000 shares of stock in Halliburton with a gross value of $3.2 million.

Rick

[Zerbie]

The Iraq war costs TEN BILLION DOLLARS A MONTH !!!!

And the TEN BILLION doesn't include replacement costs for equipment that is being worn out and destroyed and doesn't include the VETERANS benefits that we will be paying for the next 60 years and it doesn't include the social costs that will be incurred as thousands of PTSD afflicted Vets come home and start abusing their wives and children.


Aw come on, Udog. There's no cost to taking care of injured, disabled, and PTSD-ridden veterans, because we aren't providing the care.

(This folks, is my one and only (seriously flawed) attempt at using sarcasm. Shows ya why I usually don't.)

Udog, you've nailed the problems. Thanks for speaking up.

[ctozrn]

Everyone has brought up great reasons why Obama has to be elected. I hear a lot of really strong arguements but as I was watching him last night, do you know what I thought about? Finally, after 8 years, we will have a president who is intelligent and speaks proper english! This may seem like a really trivial matter but I just could not stand to even hear GWB speak. Everytime he opened his mouth he sounded like an idiot!

I like Obama for many reasons but this is something I am really looking forward to...a smart, intelligent, well spoken president!

[Daniel]

Everyone has brought up great reasons why Obama has to be elected. I hear a lot of really strong arguements but as I was watching him last night, do you know what I thought about? Finally, after 8 years, we will have a president who is intelligent and speaks proper english! This may seem like a really trivial matter but I just could not stand to even hear GWB speak. Everytime he opened his mouth he sounded like an idiot!

I like Obama for many reasons but this is something I am really looking forward to...a smart, intelligent, well spoken president!

Vanity Fair highlighted the dyslexia of our current president. And a webpage that discusses the issue can be read here:

http://www.bushwatch.org/dyslexia.htm


Dyslexia Diognosticians Comment on Bush's Language

Bush's inability to distinguish between the word "tears," meaning to rip, and "tears," meaning crying, while a student at Andover, suggests, "he really didn't understand the language. Bush is probably dyslexic, although he has probably never been diagnosed." --Sue Horn, former president of the Maryland branch of the International Dyslexia Accociation, who has been diognosing dyslexics for 25 years. (Vanity Fair, October, 2000)

"The errors you've heard Governor Bush make are consistent with dyslexia." --Nancy LaFevers, Houston Dyslexia Diognostician. (Vanity Fair, October, 2000)

"Based on his speech and behavior, his hyperactivity and impulsivity, you can say there is a possibility of some sort of disorder. If he were in a New York City school, they would pick up on this and say, 'Let's check out this person.'" Dr. Irwin Rosenthal, who sits on the board of the New York Association for the Learning Disabled. (Daily News, 9/12/00)

Note: Dr. Rosenthal appears to be considering the belief in a 30% crossover between dyslexia and attention-deficit disorder. As far as school testing, Gail Sheehy notes in her Vanity Fair profile that younger brother Neil, like George, was tutored by his mother for language deficiencies. "Neil was later diagnosed as dyslexic, but it is unlikely that lower schools would have identified the problem in either boy in the 50's or 60's. Even today it is often missed, and learning difficulties are attribute to laziness or poor teaching. Although Barbara Bush has previously told the nation, "Please don't treat [dyslexia] as a secret. Treat it with help," her son George is unwilling to take a test to determine if he is dyxlexic. At present, the Bush team says Bush is not dyslexic and notes that he has never been tested, implying that without taking the test, he could not be dyslexic. --Politex

"I don't think you can diagnose anyone with dyslexia just from the way they talk." --Dr. Larry Silver, president of the Learning Disabilities Association (Daily News, 9/12/00)

Note: Here, Dr. Silver agrees that an actual professional diagnosis demands a test. --Politex

Bush "definitely has problems with word retrieval. He's dipping into the right word pool in his brain but pulling out the wrong word. We all do that to some extent, but we catch ourselves doing it. He doesn't seem to correct himself. That's kind of curious." --Linda Bejorian, speech pathologist, New York's Speech Matters, suggesting that, in the words of the reporter, "Bush sometimes sounds like a stroke victim." (Daily News, 9/12/00)

Of course, the current President has denied the assertion. And equally, dyslexia has little to do with intelligence. But it seems- in the current President' case- that the severity of his dyslexia may have impacted world events more than we might care to admit. This is the man who - it should be noted- has taken more vacation than any other president in history. As many have noted, he may be charming and can hold a room's attention. That said, is seems that it takes a great deal more to hold his.


Doug Hannah, a friend since childhood, has found that the attention problem runs in the family: "They have an attention span of about an hour." When he and George were boys, he remembers, "Mr. Bush would pick us up to take us to the movies and leave after an hour and 20 minutes.... At ball games George would sometimes want to leave in the fifth inning." "Even today," writes Gail Sheehy in the October Vanity Fair, "nothing engages Bush's attention for more than an hour, an hour max—more like 10 or 15 minutes. His workday as governor of Texas is "two hard half-days," as his chief of staff, Clay Johnson, describes it. He puts in the hours from 8 to 11:30 A.M., breaking it up with a series of 15-minute meetings, sometimes 10-minute meetings, but rarely is there a 30-minute meeting, says Johnson. At 11:30 he's "outtahere." He tries everything possible to have at least two hours of what he calls private time in the middle of the day to go over to the University of Texas track or run a hard three to five miles on a concrete path at a pace of 7.5 minutes a mile, then relax and return to the office at 1:30, where he'll play some video golf or computer solitaire until about three, and then it's back to the second "hard half-day" until 5:30.

It this the work ethic that helped get us into Iraq? One wonders.

A last thought worth reading here:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20001009/hitchens

And to think, this was known in 2000, eight years ago. But it didn't seem to matter to anyone, much less the voting public. Does it matter now? Should it matter? I think so. Being dyslexic isn't a crime. What has been a crime is the extent to which the president's problem has become our collective problem.

Did I mention that it's highly likely that pesident Bush didn't read the clemency files on those who he ordered executed while the govenor of Texas- which- by the way- has put more people to death than any other state? I ask you, is that the action of a compassionate conservative?

[nmwolfboy]

At times i wonder (it's the influence of all the Social Workers and Nurses i've worked with for the past 11 years) if GWB might not have one of the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Disorders. :eek: Barbara is awfully devoted to her Glenlivit, and drinking during pregnancy was much less stigmatized during the 1940s than it is today...i'm just sayin'. He's got some of the facial features, and learning disabilities are common with FASD.

Of course, this is entirely idle speculation on my part. :shifty:

-scott

[Daniel]

At times i wonder (it's the influence of all the Social Workers and Nurses i've worked with for the past 11 years) if GWB might not have one of the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome Disorders. :eek: Barbara is awfully devoted to her Glenlivit, and drinking during pregnancy was much less stigmatized during the 1940s than it is today...i'm just sayin'. He's got some of the facial features, and learning disabilities are common with FASD.

Of course, this is entirely idle speculation on my part. :shifty:


But what an interesting one it is!

After having had my ears trained for better singing (yes- one can do that!) at the Listening Centre in Toronto, I learned some interesting things from those who work with listening problems- which is another way to talk about dyslexia and autism etc. While not the same thing as FASD, the spectrum of learning problems also has much to do with facial features- as I learned from those in the field. Apparently, facial features can tell one a great deal about a person, in this case, how they are using their ears ie their listening faculty, which is something more than hearing sound passively. In particular, it seems that the more facile one is in terms of their listening ability, the more the face is mobile, especially around the upper lip. And an observant person will note that the upper lip of president Bush often appears to be frozen into place. This tells one that the president may have learning problems- ones which probably have gone undiagnosed to this day.

So- is this idle speculation? I don't think so. I think you are putting things together. Things which are obvious to those who know what to look for. Could Fetal Alchohol Syndrome play a part? I think that's an intensely interesting question. We already know that gayness may have everything to do with the environment in the womb, right? As well, one would think that the brain itself would be affected by the use of alchohol when the fetus is in the womb. Makes a lot of sense. And it's only in the last 30 years that anyone started to take notice of these things.

Here's some info on listening and how it affects learning and language:

http://www.listeningcentre.com/

Now back to politics and the democratic convention! It's taking place in the Mile High Stadium tonight. That should be interesting, no?

[Gennee]

Now the real work begins. I hope that bitterness over Hillary losing will not prevent her supporters from voting Democratic. Look at it this way; is McCain for womens rights? Is he a supporter of LGBT rights? I think we all know the answers to those questions. I always say that each person should vote for the person who they feel will do the best for the country.

Lastly, and this is my two cents worth, we need a fresh face. You had eight years of Clinton and twelve years of Bush(es) :D. I don't feel many Americans wanted another 4 years of a Clinton.

Gennee

[Daniel]

Wow! Just heard Gore's speech this evening, and while one may quibble about his delivery (he can read the tele-prompter too fast!) the content of his speech blew me away. Among other things, he likened Obama to Lincoln. Both opposed a popular war. Both served as state legislators and had a brief term in Congress before becoming President.

Is Obama a pivotal candidate for our time as Lincoln was? That's a very provacative thought.

Many see Gore as being too wonky. I thought he was right-on in observations and comments about the war as well as torture. And by-the-way, I read a NYTimes article this morning about the loss of the polar ice cap- one which indicates that global warming is a serious matter. Gore mentioned it. If anything, he's paying attention to 'what's happening now'. And I see this as more than topical interest: I believe that it's only when we see things as they are- not as we wish them to be- that we can effect change.

Am I getting excited about a possible Obama Presidency? Truthfully? I'd love to see him in the oval office. He would be a breath of fresh air after the stale and suffocating presence of the last 8 years. However, I'm not sure that the country is that progressive and far-thinking.

[BruceChris]

The gay community was mentioned in Hilary's speech, we were mentioned in Bill's speech, we were mentioned by Ted Kennedy, and finally we were mentioned in Barack Obama's speech. :applause:

Do I have any takers on the bet that the word "gay" will never be mentioned in front of a microphone at the Repub's convention? :unhappy:

They're getting together right next door, in St. Paul, and I will be there to greet them. :smashy:

Onward and Upward, Bruce Chris :agree:

Daniel: You have to remember that Al Gore is really more of a college professor, than he is a politician.

[Matt Algren]

The gay community was mentioned in Hilary's speech, we were mentioned in Bill's speech, and finally we were mentioned in Barack Obama's speech. :applause:

Do I have any takers on the bet that the word "gay" will never be mentioned in front of a microphone at the Repub's convention? :unhappy:

They're getting together right next door, in St. Paul, and I will be there to greet them. :smashy:

Onward and Upward, Bruce Chris :agree:

Daniel: You have to remember that Al Gore is really more of a college professor, than he is a politician.
They'll use the word "homosexual" with finger quotes.

[Daniel]

Daniel: You have to remember that Al Gore is really more of a college professor, than he is a politician.

Gore taught here in NYC for a semester at Columbia University, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that's what appeals to me. He knows his stuff. In addition, he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts regarding global warming. And in this last respect, he may be remembered as neither professor or polictican, but rather, a prophet.

[Daniel]

That the Alaskan Governor, Sarah Palin, was tapped by McCain to be his running mate.

Now that's an provocative choice. Once which seems designed to steal those who intended to vote for Hillary. A very shrewd tactic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/29palin.html?hp


McCain Chooses Palin as Running Mate

By MICHAEL COOPER and ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: August 29, 2008
DAYTON, Ohio — In a surprise move, Senator John McCain announced here Friday that he had chosen Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his running mate, shaking up the political world at a time when his campaign has been trying to attract women, especially disaffected supporters of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

She's a Christian Conservative, at least, according to Ralph Reed. Another demographic that is very much wanted by Senator McCain.

Know what? I have a sinking feeling about all this.

[Matt Algren]

That the Alaskan Governor, Sarah Palin, was tapped by McCain to be his running mate.

Now that's an provocative choice. Once which seems designed to steal those who intended to vote for Hillary. A very shrewd tactic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/29palin.html?hp



She's a Christian Conservative, at least, according to Ralph Reed. Another demographic that is very much wanted by Senator McCain.

Know what? I have a sinking feeling about all this.Don't. It's an obvious ploy, and she's woefully unqualified. Her experience is two years as governor of the 3rd smallest population state and several years as mayor of a town of less than 6,000 people. No, I didn't forget a zero.

Are people who wouldn't have voted for McCain going to vote for him just because he has a female running mate? I don't think so. In just about every way, she's the anti-Hillary. Pro-life, anti-gay, anti-gun control, pro-fur, pro-drilling in Alaska. You're not going to see a lot of feminist defection to the Republican ticket when the only similarity between Palin and Clinton is that they both have vaginas and bewbs.

There's a (pretty minor) ethics investigation going on having to do with her trying to get her ex-brother-in-law, who worked for the state government, fired. She doesn't bring a big regional voting block with her. She'll have to debate Joe Biden. Her relative youth makes McCain's big argument against Obama unusable.

This is a huge mistake. It'll backfire. We won last night. Today just widened the margin.

[Daniel]

Don't. It's an obvious ploy, and she's woefully unqualified. Her experience is two years as governor of the 3rd smallest population state and several years as mayor of a town of less than 6,000 people. No, I didn't forget a zero.

Are people who wouldn't have voted for McCain going to vote for him just because he has a female running mate? I don't think so. In just about every way, she's the anti-Hillary. Pro-life, anti-gay, anti-gun control, pro-fur, pro-drilling in Alaska. You're not going to see a lot of feminist defection to the Republican ticket when the only similarity between Palin and Clinton is that they both have vaginas and bewbs.

There's a (pretty minor) ethics investigation going on having to do with her trying to get her ex-brother-in-law, who worked for the state government, fired. She doesn't bring a big regional voting block with her. She'll have to debate Joe Biden. Her relative youth makes McCain's big argument against Obama unusable.

This is a huge mistake. It'll backfire. We won last night. Today just widened the margin.

I'm just not so sure about the American people. They elected Bush twice. Well....once anyway. The Supreme Court kinda got him in the first time, right? And then there was 9/11 and we all know what happened after that.

The politics of fear.

Bush couldn't even run a baseball team before he was Govenor. Had to be bailed out by his Dad's buddies over and over again. The man's failed forward over and over again. And still- the American poeple elected him. I have to wonder why that is. Does anyone really pay attention to what matters?

I certainly hope so.

That said, I just wonder how much most people in our country think about things. I mean- really think about them!

We're become, it seems to me, a very narcissistic people. Very much centered on our own personal interests. And if we have a semblance of the piece of the pie...well....nothing else matter much, does it? We just go along and hope everything works out Ok- with those blinders firmly in place. And call that faith. Oy!

God - in her brilliance - gave us brains. But do we use them? I wonder about that.

I agree with everything you've written. Good stuff. But what the hell are 'bewbs'?

[u-dog]

I think this is a huge miscalculation. And her utter lack of experience is going to magnify the whole "OMG he's 72 years old and who is a heartbeat away from the presidency?" thing. ANYBODY who is even a little bit concerned about electing a 72 year old president is NOT going to be reassured by this choice. I don't want to be overconfident but... I think Obama just won the election.

[Daniel]

In all seriousness: know what was haunting me last night?

This question.

Are Americans ready to elect a black man (unfortunately, I doubt that many think of Obama as African-American- and there is a difference- just as there is a difference between 'gay' and 'homosexual') as President?

[Matt Algren]

I'm just not so sure about the American people. They elected Bush twice. Well....once anyway. The Supreme Court kinda got him in the first time, right? And then there was 9/11 and we all know what happened after that.

The politics of fear.

Bush couldn't even run a baseball team before he was Govenor. Had to be bailed out by his Dad's buddies over and over again. The man's failed forward over and over again. And still- the American poeple elected him. I have to wonder why that is. Does anyone really pay attention to what matters?

I certainly hope so.

That said, I just wonder how much most people in our country think about things. I mean- really think about them!

We're become, it seems to me, a very narcissistic people. Very much centered on our own personal interests. And if we have a semblance of the piece of the pie...well....nothing else matter much, does it? We just go along and hope everything works out Ok- with those blinders firmly in place. And call that faith. Oy!

God - in her brilliance - gave us brains. But do we use them? I wonder about that.

I agree with everything you've written. Good stuff. But what the hell are 'bewbs'?'Bewbs' is the newest internet phoneticization of 'boobs'.

I just think Palin doesn't bring anything to the ticket. One of the biggest reasons to bring Biden on board (yes, I'm cynical) was that he shores up the experience gap, especially in areas of foreign policy and the judiciary.

What does Palin bring? Less experience than McCain, name recognition than McCain (to the billionth degree), the exact same politics as McCain, and clearer skin. And even if people like her, she still has to stand next to Old Man McCain, who's bound to lose his temper sometime in the next two months and call her the c-word, just like he did his wife last time around.

I hate to get too optimistic (it's against my general nature), but barring some sort of horrible revelation, like Obama turning out to be a zombie pirate, I don't even think it's going to be close. I'm talking about 1988-sized margins.

As long as Obama keeps pointing out that McCain votes with Bush 90+% of the time, he's toast. McCain will get the folks who wouldn't vote for a black man if you paid them and most of the other more staunch waaaaay right-wingers, but I can see a lot of conservatives holding their noses and voting for Obama.

[Daniel]

'Bewbs' is the newest internet phoneticization of 'boobs'.

I just think Palin doesn't bring anything to the ticket. One of the biggest reasons to bring Biden on board (yes, I'm cynical) was that he shores up the experience gap, especially in areas of foreign policy and the judiciary.

True

What does Palin bring? Less experience than McCain, name recognition than McCain (to the billionth degree), the exact same politics as McCain, and clearer skin. And even if people like her, she still has to stand next to Old Man McCain, who's bound to lose his temper sometime in the next two months and call her the c-word, just like he did his wife last time around.

True...and the C word? That's asking a lot! LOL

I hate to get too optimistic (it's against my general nature), but barring some sort of horrible revelation, like Obama turning out to be a zombie pirate, I don't even think it's going to be close. I'm talking about 1988-sized margins.

Let's send him an eye patch! But you know, McCain has the odd gravely mumbly voice....let's send it to him instead!

As long as Obama keeps pointing out that McCain votes with Bush 90+% of the time, he's toast. McCain will get the folks who wouldn't vote for a black man if you paid them and most of the other more staunch waaaaay right-wingers, but I can see a lot of conservatives holding their noses and voting for Obama.

Now. That is saying something. Here's to hoping and seeing.

[Daniel]

But I was curious and googled Sarah Palin's record on gay rights. And surprise surprise- she doesn't support gay marriage. Here's what Wikipedia notes.


She opposes same-sex marriage, but has said she has gay friends. Palin complied with an Alaskan state Supreme Court order and signed an implementation of same-sex benefits into law under protest, stating that legal options to avoid doing so had run out. She supported a non-binding referendum for a constitutional amendment to deny benefits to homosexual couples. Alaska was one of the first U.S. states to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage, in 1998, along with Hawaii. ] Palin has stated that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment.

Nancy Reagan had gay friends too. ;)

[BruceChris]

With those qualifications, instead of Joe Biden, we coulda run Jesse Ventura! (That's a Minnesota joke) :eek: :unhappy: :lol:

I read in a blog somewhere that some guy said that he would be G-damned if he was gonna have a c-word or an n-word for a president. Well, it looks like he's gonna lose, either way.

As long as Obama keeps pointing out that McCain votes with Bush 90+% of the time, he's toast. McCain will get the folks who wouldn't vote for a black man if you paid them and most of the other more staunch waaaaay right-wingers, but I can see a lot of conservatives holding their noses and voting for Obama.

It sure looks that way.

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[wmanion]

I watched the DNC convention on CSPAN and I was very inspired by the majority of the speeches. Hilliary pointed out this election was not about her but about the issues she cares about. Obama also cares about those issues. I believe Obama brought it home by telling us that we are our brother's and our sister's keepers, a concept that the Republican Party had many years ago but lost that insight. I do think that McCain's pick for vice president was nothing more than a ploy that will backfire in his face. Hilliary will ask her supporters, is this the woman you wanted to be in line to be president? Is this a woman that cares about all of women's rights and issues? Is this the woman that really cares about all of America's families? With her being a conservative Christian won't she lead according to her personal beliefs and not the general welfare of our nation? Does this woman truly believe and practice one of the first lessons learned in the Bible, that we are indeed a keeper of our brothers and sisters, regardless of whether we agree with them or not? I think she will end up being more of a splinter in McCain's ass than a strong branch for him to lean on as we lead up to the national election. However, I have to agree with Daniel and am concerned that people will vote based on color and gender and will ignore the real issues. Of course, my brother for whom I take care of and I are on opposite sides of the fence politically and while I was watching CSPAN he was watching FOX news. After Hilliary's speech Sean Hannity asked if anyone noticed that Hilliary did not say that Obama was ready to lead as President. They made a big issue out of this. Thankfully, Bill Clinton put that to rest the next night when he proclaimed the Obama was ready to lead our nation.

Bill

[ctozrn]

I am really scared! This woman has me worried. I have many of the same concerns that have been voiced here. I am worried that Americans are not ready to elect a black man. I am so worried that I went down to the Obama headquarters here in town, dragging my resentful, pro Hillary partner with me :) We signed up for a voter registration class on Sunday afternoon. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem right? I also believe this woman is going to be a big problem for McCain. Obama has been criticized for lack of experience but this woman has 20 months as Gov! If anything ever happened to JM this woman would become president! She is currently under an ethics investigation for a firing related to her sister's exhusband. This woman is a lifetime NRA member. Yes she is a woman but I do not think she is a good substitute for the women that were Hilary supporters! I don't see many of the women that I know that were HC supporters backing this woman. Nevertheless, this woman scares me! The two of them together scares me! All the more reason to get involved! I just hope it will be enough!

[tdogg]

They'll use the word "homosexual" with finger quotes.

Don't forget to add the usual accent on 'sex'. :lol:

The Democratic convention and its players have had me very excited this week. I actually do see the hope, and after listening to Obama last night, I believe he will be able to formulate action plans for his goals. I was moved, thrilled, excited, and hopeful. I like Biden. I love that the Clintons have thrown in their support (how could they not at this point). I believe my girl Hillary will definitely be a key figure in the White House.

I am optimistic that America is more than ready for an African American man to head this country. I'm thrilled by the notion, along with his intelligence and humanity, demonstrated over and over again this past week. I'm optimistic that America is largely tired of 8 years of GWB and won't go there. I'm even more optimistic after hearing McCain's choice of running mate. It's an obvious act of desperation to get a 'minority' on the Rep ticket. The Democrats had a phenomenal run towards the nomination, with a woman and a black man running fairly close. The Republicans had 3 white males, so I believe they felt the need to have something similar to the Dems.

I am hopeful and optimistic that Obama will be our next president. However, I'm not so sure about the landslide. It would be nice. I'm going to look for a "Obama/Biden" sign to post in my front yard and will be voting accordingly. While, at this point I would vote my for dog if she were a Dem, I'm so very thankful that we have a great ticket and don't have to vote strictly by party or who's the least of the evils.

[Zerbie]

I'm going to look for a "Obama/Biden" sign to post in my front yard and will be voting accordingly. .

Let me know if you find one. I looked yesterday, but couldn't find one, which surprised me.

I've never seen a political anything as beautifully done as this convention was. My favorite part were the short speeches by the non-famous supporters, by whom I mean the working man, Barney Smith, the teacher from New Mexico, and so on.

I also thought Bill Richardson was more animated and interesting than I've ever seen him before, and a brilliant touch that he spoke a phrase or two in Spanish during his address.

Hubby watched much of the last few days beside me and he commented, "Look at the demographics of this audience. The audience looks like what America looks like."

[u-dog]

Let me know if you find one. I looked yesterday, but couldn't find one, which surprised me.



I bought my yard sign from http://www.cafepress.com

Cost me 18 bucks but... watchagonnado?

I had a lovely experience around putting it up though. It required some assembly so I opened the mailing tube while sitting on the front stoop. I was just finishing up and getting ready to stick it in the ground when the school bus pulled up and two young African-American middle-school girls got off the bus. They were interested in what I was doing and when they saw that the white man was not putting up a McCain sign they made eye contact with me and smiled these two very broad and very proud and very spontaneous grins.

It was a very nice shared moment. a fleeting moment of connection across boundaries

[ctozrn]

While I was at the Obama headquarters here in Greensboro yesterday they said they were out of bumper stickers and yard signs and had no idea when they will have any. I guess I will have to buy one online as well! It sounds as though this is a nationwide problem. I am taking that as a very good sign! I wonder if they are out of McCain stickers and yard signs?

[Zerbie]

I bought my yard sign from http://www.cafepress.com

Cost me 18 bucks but... watchagonnado?

Oh I'm happy to pay for it - but if I buy it through the campaign. I looked on the Obama website and they did not have them listed as products in their store. I was surprised. Maybe they will add one soon.

I don't want to buy from a for-profit company if I can buy the same sign from the campaign, which makes the purchase a donation.
I hadn't thought of trying local headquarters. Good idea, Zorn, I will see if they're not out of them around here.

I had a lovely experience around putting it up though. It required some assembly so I opened the mailing tube while sitting on the front stoop.

Requires assembly? Waita minute - I'm the girl who has disasters with ready-to-assemble shelves from Target. Is this going to be a construction project?

I was thinking, sign board, plus wire thingy to stick in the ground. Voilá. Is there more to it than that?
If there is, maybe I should get a tee shirt instead of a yard sign, and just hang the tee shirt in the yard. :p:lol:


I was just finishing up and getting ready to stick it in the ground when the school bus pulled up and two young African-American middle-school girls got off the bus. They were interested in what I was doing and when they saw that the white man was not putting up a McCain sign they made eye contact with me and smiled these two very broad and very proud and very spontaneous grins.

It was a very nice shared moment. a fleeting moment of connection across boundaries

Or maybe they're just progressives who want to end the war, preserve our Constitution, see equal pay for equal work, etc. . . .

[u-dog]

Or maybe they're just progressives who want to end the war, preserve our Constitution, see equal pay for equal work, etc. . . .


hmmm.... they were thirteen. I'm thinking that my interpretation is the correct one. Being as I was actually there.

[Zerbie]

hmmm.... they were thirteen. I'm thinking that my interpretation is the correct one. Being as I was actually there.

Geez man, I was just "shaking things up." :p:p:p:p

Who says 13 year olds can't have a stance on the war? Believe in equal pay? (They were *girls,* weren't they?;))

Whatever was behind those grins, that's a GREAT story. :love:

Now really, just how much assembly did the sign require? Cz my local dem HQ doesn't have any either.

[u-dog]

The wire frame is in three pieces joined by two plastic corner pieces, then the vinyl sign slides over the top of the frame then you stick it in the ground. Very simple really

[nmwolfboy]

Here's the link (http://store.barackobama.com/Office_s/600.htm) for yard signs, etc., from BarakObama.com.

[Rick336]

I'm getting my Obama/Biden yard sign from the local Democratic headquarters for 5 bucks. I also signed up to volunteer in the local and national campaign.

Obama's speech was awesome to say the least. I taped it so if anybody didn't get a chance to see it let me know, I'll send it to you.

Looks like Gustav might distract from the Republican Convention in St. Paul this week. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

Rick

[Zerbie]

Here's the link (http://store.barackobama.com/Office_s/600.htm) for yard signs, etc., from BarakObama.com.

I don't see one that says Obama/Biden. I've been looking and looking, but they don't appear to have one there. Am I missing it?

My nearest Dem headquarters doesn't have Obama/Biden signs yet; they said it will be about 2 weeks before they're available. $5 is awesome!

I was going to start volunteering for Obama months ago, but then learned we had Prop 102 going on in AZ, so I thought I would spend my free time working on that. Now it appears we are not doing any campaign volunteering for that issue, so I'll see about getting involved in this one. Have to admit, this is an exciting campaign.

[Zerbie]

:lol:

After all that complaining 'cuz I couldn't find an Obama/Biden sign, after looking and calling everywhere, the Obama campaign just started offering one. Apparently a few minutes ago when I got the email.

So, if you donate a certain amount or more today or tomorrow, they'll send you an Obama/Biden yard sign, exactly the one I was looking for:D, plus a bunch of other stuff.

Donate now and get 'yer gear!! :D:tup::weee:
Mine's on the way!

[nmwolfboy]

Frank Rich has written (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/opinion/31rich.html) one the best summations of the Democratic National Convention (and McCain's rash VP running mate selection) that i've seen thus far.

[Daniel]

Frank Rich has written (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/opinion/31rich.html) one the best summations of the Democratic National Convention (and McCain's rash VP running mate selection) that i've seen thus far.

Yes. I agree with you. Read him this morning. What I admire about him is that, as a former theatre critic, he really 'gets' the big ideas, as one necessarily must in the theatre. And I am always astounded how he can put together information that has been out there, but may have been forgotten. And of course, he has been a champion of gay rights.

[Rick336]

That was a great article nmwolfboy. Thanks.

I saw a speech today on C-Span that Obama gave yesterday in Ohio. There's something about this man that makes him way more attractive than just the issues he's running on. It's something about the way his self-confidence comes through when he speaks to a crowd and the manner in which he handles himself on stage. It's easy to see how he can draw 84,000 people to hear him speak.

Rick