"They don't like blacks"

[Rick336]

Roger Schank is a former Professor of Stanford, Yale, and Northwestern Universities. Here's his opinion of why he thinks many Americans vote Republican:

When I travel, I live the life of an intellectual. In Florida, I hang out with jocks and retirees. I try not to talk politics with them. When, it happens that I have no choice but to hear what they think about politics I take note of it. Here is what I have heard:

Obama is a Muslim. His pastor hates America. In fact nearly everyone outside of America hates America. If you travel outside of America, go on a cruise, so you won't have to eat whatever it is one eats in those places. You don't want to talk to the people either, but that’s not a problem because none of them speak English. And, anyway they all hate us for our freedoms. Obama will put Al Sharpton in the cabinet. Dick Cheney was the greatest Vice President in history. The Jews are running the country anyway.

I am not making this up. This is not a caricature. I wish I carried a tape recorder.

Why do these people vote Republican?

It is common to make the assumption that people are thinking when they vote and they are making reasoned choices. I harbor no such illusion. No argument I have ever gotten into with these people, (despite avoiding talking to them, I sometimes can't resist saying something true) has ever convinced anyone of anything. They are not reasoning, nor do they want to try. They simply believe what they believe. What do they believe?

1. They don't like blacks. Forget the rest. It isn't that they are racists. They will be polite if a black person ever appears. (This doesn't happen much, although I am sure they must live here too.) They just don't like them. They have no reason. If you ask them today, as a result of recent remarks by Michelle Obama and their pastor, they will say that blacks hate America. This is not the reason, but they sound more reasoned in their own minds if they say it that way.

2. They don't like wussies. The Democrats are always nominating wussies,—men who are not men. Obama looks like his wife runs the show at home. Kerry? Gore? Dukakis. Wussies. Not real men. Bad people are trying to kill us. We need to kill them first. Those guys wouldn't pull the trigger. (I am not making this up. I wish I were.)

3. They worry about money. Who wants to take their money away? Liberals of course. They want to give it to the blacks.

Where I live is not redneck country. There is a lot of church going but no talk about abortion or of being born again. There is a just a distaste and distrust for people not like us (which I am sure includes me.)

It is all very nice to come up with complex analyses of what is going on. As is often the case, the real answer is quite simple. Most people can't think very well. They were taught not to think by religion and by a school system that teaches that knowledge of state capitals and quadratic equations is what education is all about and that well reasoned argument and original ideas will not help on a multiple choice test.

We don't try to get the average child to think in this society so why, as adults would we expect that they actually would be thinking? They think about how the Yankees are doing, and who will win some reality show contest, and what restaurant to eat it, but they are not equipped to think about politics and, in my mind, they are not equipped to vote. The fact that we let them vote while failing to encourage them to think for themselves is a real problem for our society.

The scientific question here is how belief systems are acquired and changed. I worked on this problem with both Ken Colby and Bob Abelson for many years. Colby was a psychiatrist who modeled paranoid behavior on computers. The basis of his work was research on how neurotic thinking depends upon the attempt to make inconsistent beliefs work together when the core beliefs cannot change.

Abelson worked on modeling political belief systems. He built a very convincing model of Barry Goldwater that showed that once you adopted some simple beliefs about the cold war, every other position Goldwater took could be derived (and asserted by a computer) from those core beliefs. The idea of a set of unchanging core beliefs is not true of only politicians or psychiatric patients of course. Everyday average Joes behave the same way. Adult belief systems rest on childhood beliefs instilled by parents mostly and by assorted other authorities.

Republicans do not try to change voter's beliefs. They go with them. Democrats appeal to reason. Big mistake.



Rick

[inca nitta]

I am wondering what would Mr. Schank say if Condoleeza Rice, a Black woman who is a staunch Republican, would run for President (which I believe is possible, someday). If something like that would happen, I don't know to what extent his theory would hold water.

[ctozrn]

I am from the south, NC to be exact and the conversations that Mr. Schank states that he has heard, have been the exact conversations that I am hearing! They are everywhere!! I hear it from young and old, on the radio, from my patients, I have even heard it from a few friends that are gay and I thought liberal. I hate to say it but it is ignorance plain and simple. I respect Obama, I believe in him. He came to our city a few weeks ago to the farmers market. A young woman at our church was there with her two young sons when Obama came in. She got to shake his hand and meet her sons. She said that he was very warm and really took his time really meeting and talking to people. He didn't seem rushed, like it was just another routine campaign stop.

I get afraid when I think about the kind of people that Mr. Schank and I encounters. Will there be enough informed voters to cancel out all the ignorant, bigoted votes on election day? One can only hope....

If not, God help us all.....

[Gennee]

It's sad that you still have people who think like this. Plain and simple, some people will not vote for a black man. Some people will not vote for a woman :(. Look at what the Republicans have done to the country the past 8 years and you will still have people who will vote Republican.

At times I wonder if we have come a long way. Certainly not in this regard.

Gennee

[keltic63]

It's sad that you still have people who think like this. Plain and simple, some people will not vote for a black man. Some people will not vote for a woman :(. Look at what the Republicans have done to the country the past 8 years and you will still have people who will vote Republican.

At times I wonder if we have come a long way. Certainly not in this regard.

Gennee

Gennee,

that has been on my mind a lot the past few days. We haven't come as far as we think we have. I have witnessed or been subjected to anti-gay slurs 3 times in the past week, all from strangers. One of the incidents was as we were walking into a gay bar Friday evening. the occupants of a passing car rolled down their window to yell F*ing F*gg*t's at us as we walked through the parking lot. I had no reason to believe that they wouldn't have just as readily stopped and beat us up.

Our house was egged Saturday night, and while we know who did it, we aren't sure of the motivation. I do know that many houses and cars were hit, but why? and one of the cars hit is owned by an African American family. Did the young men have a list of people they hate, so they could egg their property?

It is a quiet thing here in rural PA, but the sense that "they don't like blacks" runs deep.

[Rick336]

There is a large portion of our population who have no skills for rational decision making. Instead of examining the issues and making educated decisions, they vote out of ignorance and fear.

To them, Sarah Palin's background doesn't matter at all. As long as she can help keep a black man from becoming president, she's great.

Rick

[Alecto]

For some reason it's scarier to me when people have no problemvoicing that too. Like, A LOT of people are racist, and I recognize that. But I'm always shocked when they act like it's not only acceptable, but expected. Like I'm supposed to agree with them.

This girl at a party flat out said "I could never vote for a black man for president". And maybe that shouldn't shock me, but it always does.

[Zerbie]

The first time I encountered blatantly open racism (as in, hearing the N word tossed glibly here, there, and everywhere,) I was stunned motionless. I was 25. For 25 years, I had been shielded from that by being a white chick in a blue state, where the somewhat liberal atmosphere actually shoved whatever racism there was (and in hindsight, it WAS there) into a closet.

Now that I've seen both overt and covert racism, I'd rather have it out in the open. An obvious problem has more trouble hiding. And awareness of a problem is the first step towards solving it. I'd always rather know there is a problem than be blind-sided by one unexpectedly.

That said, the problem with overt racism (homophobia, anti semitism, whatever it is we're dealing with, and they usually go together,) is that it seeks to carry everyone nearby onto its current. Hate is an intense, hot, fast energy. It energizes people, same as anger. Get in their way at your own peril. The problem I noticed living in an area where racism (and other hates) was openly expressed, was that they were acted upon in violent ways (by which I mean assault with a deadly weapon.)

The antidote for this kind of poison is solidarity. Communities MUST stand in unity with all of their members. Visibly and openly. Make it clear to the perpetrators that they do not have the community's consent or silence.

[Rick336]

The first time I encountered blatantly open racism (as in, hearing the N word tossed glibly here, there, and everywhere,) I was stunned motionless. I was 25. For 25 years, I had been shielded from that by being a white chick in a blue state, where the somewhat liberal atmosphere actually shoved whatever racism there was (and in hindsight, it WAS there) into a closet.

Now that I've seen both overt and covert racism, I'd rather have it out in the open. An obvious problem has more trouble hiding. And awareness of a problem is the first step towards solving it. I'd always rather know there is a problem than be blind-sided by one unexpectedly.

That said, the problem with overt racism (homophobia, anti semitism, whatever it is we're dealing with, and they usually go together,) is that it seeks to carry everyone nearby onto its current. Hate is an intense, hot, fast energy. It energizes people, same as anger. Get in their way at your own peril. The problem I noticed living in an area where racism (and other hates) was openly expressed, was that they were acted upon in violent ways (by which I mean assault with a deadly weapon.)

The antidote for this kind of poison is solidarity. Communities MUST stand in unity with all of their members. Visibly and openly. Make it clear to the perpetrators that they do not have the community's consent or silence.

Zerbie,

Have you ever written Op-ed articles for the Phoenix newspaper? If not, you definitely should. You have a very eloquent way with words.

Rick

[BenL]

Besides lack of intellect, I think the biggest reason racism persists in this country is a perceived loss of white privilege or the threat that it will be lost if anyone other than a white man exercises power. The same is true about sexism and homophobia, but those are for a different discussion.

Racists have been brought up to believe in the superior status of their race. That kind of conviction comes from experience not education. The belief in white supremacy, for that is what it is, is so fundamental that no amount of reasoning will dislodge it from some people's belief systems.

It may be politically incorrect, and well-bred racists may pay lip service to equal rights, but in the privacy of the voting booth they will act on their fundamental beliefs and pay no attention to the political or economic issues at hand. Funny, they would rather see a white woman succeed to the presidency than a black man be elected to it.

The news that a majority of white female voters have switched their allegiance to the McCain-Palin ticket is disheartening indeed.

[scott snedeker]

For some reason it's scarier to me when people have no problemvoicing that too. Like, A LOT of people are racist, and I recognize that. But I'm always shocked when they act like it's not only acceptable, but expected. Like I'm supposed to agree with them.

This girl at a party flat out said "I could never vote for a black man for president". And maybe that shouldn't shock me, but it always does.

I have no doubt that we are all prejudiced to a degree. prejudice, I would define as having a feeling or opinion before knowing someone, based on past experience or information. We all have fears, anger, and feelings created from past experience.

The focus of Buddhist forgiveness meditation begins with acknowledgement of these feelings or "attachments" to what was and what is so that you can release these attachments that cause pain.

I still have residual fear of Christ and christians even though I know where that fear came from. It's irrational and it harms me as well as christian people who can sense it. What I keep having to do is acknowlege it, forgive mself for having it, forgive the ones who caused it, and ask for forgiveness from the ones who are caused pain by it.

Only by releasing these attachments can I stop reliving the trauma.

The prejudice is not as important as what we do with it.

[Alecto]

Scott, well put. There are TONS of socially ingrained "facts" and attitudes that most people just take for granted, and I think everything you say applies so well to that.

What I find dangerous is when these facts and attitudes are defended primarily through a lack of empathy, and a lack of being able to (or an emphatic refusal to) connect individual problems with greater societal ills. I acknowledge that I have racist thoughts and attitudes sometimes, but I also know where they come from and make a deliberate effort to not let them impact my behaviors and treatment of other people. Folks who maintain "politeness" by not giving vocalization to their thoughts and attitudes, but who still hold them, believe them, and do not question them (or their source) I find to be more problematic and more commonthan the easily identified folks who blurt out ridiculous nonsense like that found above. I guess the shock value comes from the uncommon more than anything else.

[scott snedeker]

Very well said! Alecto

Empathy and compassion become tragically "ridiculous" vulnerabilities when you see life as a feaful fight against evil.

But what is more Tragically Ridiculous?

Decisions base on fear and ignorance or decisions based on compassion and empathy?

I found an allegory that I found humbling:



The sage and her student were standing by a pool discussing longing and ambition.

"What do you want more than anything else?" the sage asked.

"To perfect my ability to love all of creation the way I love myself," the young man replied.

At that moment, the sage tackled the student and shoved his head beneath the water. Accustomed to letting his teacher shape the unpredictable contours of his education, he did not resist.

One minute went by. Then another. The student began to struggle and kick. His teacher was strong.

Finally she released her grip and the student surfaced, fighting for breath.

"What did you want more than anything else during these last few minutes?" the sage inquired.

"Nothing else was in my mind except the desire for air," gasped the student.

"Excellent," beamed the sage. "As soon as you are equally single-minded in your desire to perfect your ability to love all of creation the way you love yourself, you will achieve your goal."

[Zerbie]

One minute went by. Then another. The student began to struggle and kick. His teacher was strong.

Finally she released her grip and the student surfaced, fighting for breath.

"What did you want more than anything else during these last few minutes?" the sage inquired.

"Nothing else was in my mind except the desire for air," gasped the student.

"Excellent," beamed the sage. "As soon as you are equally single-minded in your desire to perfect your ability to love all of creation the way you love yourself, you will achieve your goal." [/I]

Yes. Thank you, Scott. This one is an oft used metaphor for spiritual life, because it's true. What we need to do is to focus single-mindedly on the good, on who we want to be. When we are looking at the goal, we will move towards it.

A metaphor I love to use in 3D is to stand in front of someone with my arms out in a T, blocking the person's path, then ask them to try to walk through my arms while I stop them. They are looking at my arms which are blocking them, and time goes by while we wrestle, Red Rover style, with one another.:p
Then ask them to try a second time, but this time, to pretend my arms are not in the way and to just look at a specific goal behind me that they intend to reach. They breeze past, and I have a much harder time trying to stop them. I stole this one from an opera director who learned this in her Aikido class. It's an excellent illustration of how we use our energy, and how we can use it more efficiently.

Imagine if we always remembered to live in adherence to the values demonstrated by Christ and the other great sages of this world? That would be a great place to live!

[Rick336]

Besides lack of intellect, I think the biggest reason racism persists in this country is a perceived loss of white privilege or the threat that it will be lost if anyone other than a white man exercises power. The same is true about sexism and homophobia, but those are for a different discussion.

Racists have been brought up to believe in the superior status of their race. That kind of conviction comes from experience not education. The belief in white supremacy, for that is what it is, is so fundamental that no amount of reasoning will dislodge it from some people's belief systems.

It may be politically incorrect, and well-bred racists may pay lip service to equal rights, but in the privacy of the voting booth they will act on their fundamental beliefs and pay no attention to the political or economic issues at hand. Funny, they would rather see a white woman succeed to the presidency than a black man be elected to it.




Sometimes it's about the fear of a loss of power, masculinity, and social status. Many men base their self-esteem, not on their values, but on who ranks below them on the social ladder.

Just to talk about this fear is taboo. Men see fear as a sign of weakness. Men are conditioned to always be in control of their emotions; don't cry, don't be scared, don't be a coward.

For the more enlightened man, talking about this fear is admitting one has racist thoughts. For some, being labeled a racist is almost as bad as being labeled a child molester. We've been conditioned in America to avoid this label like the plague.

Fortunately, Obama's run for the White House is bringing this discussion to group forums all across America. I think it's good that we're finally getting this out in the open.

I've never discussed this, but I live a very segregated life. My friends are mostly men, about half are gay, the others are straight. I have no black friends, no transgender friends, no Mexican friends, no lesbian friends, no Asian friends. I live in a mostly all white, all male world.

The one thing that connects me to others different from myself is my PC. In fourms like this one, I can read about the fears, joys, losses and achievements of people who I would otherwise never know. This connection to people with different lives and views of the world helps to calm that fear of difference.


Rick

[u-dog]

Sometimes it's about the fear of a loss of power, masculinity, and social status. Many men base their self-esteem, not on their values, but on who ranks below them on the social ladder.

Bingo! This is THE number one strut in the structure that upholds racism

Just to talk about this fear is taboo. Men see fear as a sign of weakness. Men are conditioned to always be in control of their emotions; don't cry, don't be scared, don't be a coward.

And this is the SECOND most important element. Its ironic that the taboo against being afraid gives rise to the FEAR of fear and elevates it to a primary motivator in everything that "real men" do! Racism is about "fear of the other who is not like me" and the "fear of being at the bottom of the ladder" Homophobia is about that too... as is sexism and prejudice against physically challenged people. The fear of what is different and the fear that what is different might be better. kind of pathetic actually.

For the more enlightened man, talking about this fear is admitting one has racist thoughts. For some, being labeled a racist is almost as bad as being labeled a child molester. We've been conditioned in America to avoid this label like the plague.

the mistake that we make when we talk about racism is classifying it as a individual sin or fault. It isn't. Its a systemic problem and since we are all participants, we are ALL guilty OF it and negatively affected BY it. If you are a part of a racist society (as we all are) then you are a racist. The only thing you can do is to be aware of it and try as often as possible to act counter to it. Pretending NOT to be racist merely provides cover for your racism and makes it easier for you to be unaware of your racism and to act on it.

Fortunately, Obama's run for the White House is bringing this discussion to group forums all across America. I think it's good that we're finally getting this out in the open.

It's raising the discussion among people who are willing to face it but its probably not doing that among people who are unwilling to admit that they are racist.

I've never discussed this, but I live a very segregated life. My friends are mostly men, about half are gay, the others are straight. I have no black friends, no transgender friends, no Mexican friends, no lesbian friends, no Asian friends. I live in a mostly all white, all male world.

This is one of the things that Polly and I really appreciate about the GLBT church we attend. Apart from the fact that almost all (though not all) are glbt, it is the most racially and class integrated community we have ever been apart of.

The one thing that connects me to others different from myself is my PC. In fourms like this one, I can read about the fears, joys, losses and achievements of people who I would otherwise never know. This connection to people with different lives and views of the world helps to calm that fear of difference.

Amen, brother Rick!


Rick

[inca nitta]

the mistake that we make when we talk about racism is classifying it as a individual sin or fault. It isn't. Its a systemic problem and since we are all participants, we are ALL guilty OF it and negatively affected BY it. If you are a part of a racist society (as we all are) then you are a racist. The only thing you can do is to be aware of it and try as often as possible to act counter to it. Pretending NOT to be racist merely provides cover for your racism and makes it easier for you to be unaware of your racism and to act on it.

While what you say is true, what is being defined as racist is controversial. For example, when I was in college, I had a professor who believed that our country was founded on racism, including the Bill of Rights, because that Bill was written by white males and did not address the needs and benefits of African Americans. She even considered that having legal freedom of speech on the books, perpetuates racism because it allows individuals to say N-word, and even say things that many African Americans find offensive, like saying that Blacks are good basketball players. So, if I want to counter racism, by embracing my ex-professor's beliefs, then I would have to admit that our First Amendment and Bill of Rights are ineffective for a diverse society, today, and I don't think I can do that.

[Alecto]

There's a LOT of different ways and views of how to be effectively anti-racist, but ALL of them start with admitting that you are prone to racist thoughts and views, and admitting that white folks (I don't want to make assumptions about your race) have a privilege which allows them to not always see when thoughts and attitudes are racist. In basic terms, it's the similar to being an ally of other oppressed groups: you need to admit your privilege, see the larger social influence, and listen to the experiences of group members instead of going with your assumptions about their experience.

[inca nitta]

Alecto,

Of course, there are a lot of different ways how to counter racism, and I am at this point, am trying to find the one that makes the most sense to me. I think that as a start, I should start listening to people without practicing judgment.

And I am a white young man, and just to refresh your memory, you and I had a brief discussion where I shared my personal experience dealing with race and privilege in the foyer, a couple of months ago.

[Gennee]

There is a large portion of our population who have no skills for rational decision making. Instead of examining the issues and making educated decisions, they vote out of ignorance and fear.

To them, Sarah Palin's background doesn't matter at all. As long as she can help keep a black man from becoming president, she's great.

Rick

A lot of people vote ths way, Rick. Usually, they are the first to complain when things go sour or won't admit that they were wrong. There were too many instances where Bush put people in positions who are not qualified for the post (Harriet Miers, Mike Brown). They may be nice people but can they do the job?

Gennee

[tdogg]

I am more than ready for the break-up of the good ole Republican white boy network in Washington. I am ready for Obama to lead, I am ready to see this nation get past the color of our skin and see the value of individual qualities. I say it's about damn time a black man leads this country. Not just any, but a qualified, electric, visionary leader who is smart enough to surround himself with others who make up for what he might lack, wise enough to see a vision and low enough to listen to ideas from those who were never listened to before. It takes someone who has been there and experienced hardships and discrimination to understand what must be done to eliminate it.

[inca nitta]

Do you mean, you are ready to let a black Democrat man to lead the nation, is that correct? Because it looks like you don't want Republicans to dominate our government. However, you can't deny the facts that there are plenty of Repuplicans in our government who happen to be people of color, I already mentioned Condoleeza Rice, but there are also Clarence Thomas, Lynn Swann, Alberto Gonzales. Besides these few, there are many others. A couple of years, down the road, any of these individuals could run for Presidency, because this is America! Likewise, such folks have experienced and understood oppression, especially those who spent their childhood during segregation, but they just happen to be Republican!

I can only imagine what kind of shocking sensation will emerge in the hearts of people, if any of these or individuals decide to run for Presidency. There going to be a lot of loud conversations, probably more loud than they are over Obama.

[scott snedeker]

I just get a surge of joy as I see evidence of our society evolving to a new sensibility toward egalitarian ideals. I was watching a young black boy watching Obama in an interview on television. I was just trying to imagine how much that meant to this child. I just stood there with a smile trying to share his moment. It was beautiful!

We are privileged to live in this dawn of a new era. I feel the excited anticipation like I did when I saw my first play when the curtains started to open.:cool:

[matthewspeed]

Rick

Be careful. I have voted Republican and probably will on this election. I have met with some Log Cabin Republicans lately, in my local area. I hope you don't lump all Republican voters as red necks or racist or otherwise. I consider myself very open and intelligent in many respects (although there is plenty of room of improvement, no perfection here :eek:)

I agree with fiscal conservatism for a growing economy. I am for the private sector, healthy competiton and less, much less government. I am against universal healthcare. I am pro life. These are serious issues close to my heart and that is why I vote Republican. Do I agree with the right winged conservatism? HELL NO, but I have to weigh the issues. And I choose to vote Republican for this election. I remain independent, but I have not seen valid reasons to vote for Obama. Just my opinion. That does not make me less educated, a redneck or a racist. I am intelligent enough to research the candidates and make my decisions.

Are there many issues that I agree with on the Democratic ticket? Of course. But the issues that are close to my heart that I feel I must support, are with the Republican party.

I hope you wouldn't lump me in the group of racist, redneck, narrowminded Americans. I realize my views are not popular at all with this forum, but I follow my convictions like the rest do on this site.

I am not adding to this thread to start a political debate. I am tired of debating at this point. Debate is good, but I just choose to take a break!:o

I just wanted to respond to Ricks message on why Americans vote Republican. We desire tolerance and acceptance for GLTB people, so lets practice what we preach and give the same to other viewpoints.

Rick, I am not saying that you are not tolerant or accepting of others, I just want to reiterate the fact that we have to be open minded of all regardless of our political/religious views.

It's like we are all cooking the same dish, it's just that we all have different ingredients that we think will make it taste better. Maybe my ingredients are a bit too spicy for this group. You all taste my recipe and gasp for water!! LOL! (trying to find some humor in this)

Anyhow, thats my two cents

Blessings

-Matthew

[Daniel]

The first post is astounding for the frankness of it's reportage. While I live in a major city, and associate and am surrounded by those on the liberal left, I have heard these 'arguments'.

I wonder, for one thing, if this is a matter of cities vs suburbs? For one thing, cities and centers of learning are where the 'thinkers' congregate in number. There is still something of an anti-intellectual streak in this country. And I saw it first hand when I was in the AoG church. They hated what they considered to be the left-wing liberals on either coast. It was necessary and important to have faith, not reason. And the writer rightly puts his finger on this aspect of or culture- a slice of which prides itself on not knowing anything but its own narrow wants and desires.

[Rick336]

I just wanted to respond to Ricks message on why Americans vote Republican. We desire tolerance and acceptance for GLTB people, so lets practice what we preach and give the same to other viewpoints.

Rick, I am not saying that you are not tolerant or accepting of others, I just want to reiterate the fact that we have to be open minded of all regardless of our political/religious views.



Matthew,

I hope my post didn't paint all Republicans with the same brush. In my original post I stated "Roger Schank is a former Professor of Stanford, Yale, and Northwestern Universities. Here's his opinion of why he thinks many Americans vote Republican:"

I do think many Americans will vote for McCain instead of Obama because of racist views. However, I don't believe that most Americans who vote Republican are racists. If my posts came across that way, I apologize. That was not my intention.

As a group, Democrats do seem to be more tolerant than Republicans. However, I heard a Democrat say not long ago that he wasn't going to vote for Obama because he didn't like his looks.

Rick

[matthewspeed]

fair enough Rick.:)

Forgive me if I seemed to jump to any conclusions. You are right in the fact that some Republicans vote due to their predjudices, especially in this election, due to Barak Obama being African American. That is immoral and just plain stupid! I can assure you that is not the case with me! ;)

Blessings to you

[Rick336]

You are right in the fact that some Republicans vote due to their predjudices, especially in this election, due to Barak Obama being African American. That is immoral and just plain stupid! I can assure you that is not the case with me! ;)



Yes, I agree. It is immoral.

Yesterday down at the Democrat Headquarters, an Obama volunteer told me a story about a man who shouted to her on the street, "I hope they kill him like they did King."

I don't understand where this kind of hate comes from.


Rick

[sauu4equality]

fair enough Rick.:)

Forgive me if I seemed to jump to any conclusions. You are right in the fact that some Republicans vote due to their predjudices, especially in this election, due to Barak Obama being African American. That is immoral and just plain stupid! I can assure you that is not the case with me! ;)

Blessings to you

While I do not agree with a vote for McCain, I am happy to see that the GLBT community exists among Republicans. This is evidence of progress as many of you have suggested below. I, however, think that those thinking of voting for McPalin should take a look at Andrew Sullivan's blog (he is a Log Cabin Republican who writes for The Atlantic Magazine).

[Rick336]

I cannot reply to this post in a respectful or productive manner..All I will say is that the existence of Log Cabin Republicanism breaks my heart in so many ways...I know that I am not alone in that :'(

Log Cabin Republicans proves the point that we are everywhere!!


Rick

[matthewspeed]

I cannot reply to this post in a respectful or productive manner..All I will say is that the existence of Log Cabin Republicanism breaks my heart in so many ways...I know that I am not alone in that :'(

It breaks my heart that there are not more gay republicans. Just to give you some insight about Log Cabin Republicans;

They are NOT Republican "stepford wives." They speak the truth and challenge the Republican party on many fronts. They did NOT back Presiden Bush on the previous election. They constantly meet with other party leaders in regards to gay rights issues. They are extremely vocal about gay rights and acknowledge the lack of gay rights within the Republican party. They make a point to meet with the presidential candidates expressing their passion for gay rights and challenging them. The Log Cabin Republicans are basically fiscally conservative. They are not necessarily conservative for all social issues. Their presense is desperately needed within the Republican party. They receive a lot of persecution within their own party by the religious right. They are brave individuals.

We need to support our fellow Log Cabin Republicans, not be ashamed of them.

[wmanion]

Although I am more in line with democrats, I still hold a lot of conservative ideas. My brother is a republican strong and true but that doesn't make us any less family. I have a real good friend who is a log cabin republican and we debate constantly but he is still and forever will be my friend. I remember an article during the last Bush election where the republican party did not recognize their gay republicans and really didn't want them. Is this any different than the world that we live in? Democrat or Republican, there are still so many in this world that just don't want us or acknowledge us for who we are. We are all individuals and as such we have to vote our own conscious. Truth be known, there are many liberal Republicans and many conservative democrats. My heart tells me that Obama is the right choice based on the issues I care about, Matthew's heart tells him otherwise and he has the right to vote based on the issues he cares about. We may not agree but as far as I see it...we are still family.

Bill

[BruceChris]

And find proportional support for Obama, if that was what you were implying, we should build a large movement for registering large number of young people to vote. And in terms of the voting electorate. I mean anyone under 30.

To try to be a part of the solution to societal racism socially/politically, as well as personally, you have to be a player. For an introvert like myself, it's all too easy to say to myself that since I'm not a player, I'm not really a part of the problem. I can see from the arguments made above, that I should expect more of myself.

Or, as somebody said, all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

I'll work on that.

BC

[BruceChris]

And hey, to put this whole thing in perspective, how long has it been since anyone has lost any sleep over the fact that OPRAH is black?

BC

[tymejumper]

Just had this disscussion over dinner tonight. It upsets me and saddens me that people still vote on color of ones skin. In my experience, black girls feel the same way as white ones!:lol: That aside, I believe that people are just racist enough to vote for an uncoth, classless woman that a classy black man because he is stereotyped. I guess it should not surprise me much in America, after all, we too are stereotyped all the time.

My father in law said tonight that his brother, a bigot(gays and blacks) would be the type of ingnorant to vote Republican just to keep a black man out of the office. Whoa is the day that a black, woman runs for office!

[Alecto]

And hey, to put this whole thing in perspective, how long has it been since anyone has lost any sleep over the fact that OPRAH is black?

BC

Was it last summer when she did that road trip with Gayle? I don't keep up with Oprah so much, but it was an issue, even for Oprah, within the past two years.

[matthewspeed]

Wmanion,

I appreciate your open mindedness and your insight. Until we can be tolerant and accepting of each other within the GLBT community, we do not deserve the tolerance and acceptance of the straight community.

[Matt Algren]

We need to support our fellow Log Cabin Republicans, not be ashamed of them.
Sorry, Matthew, I don't know how in the world, or even why, I should 'support' Log Cabin Republicans. Their continued lies (http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/09/video-remind-us.html) on behalf of the McCain campaign destroyed any hope of that.

Frankly, any time someone finds themselves in agreement with Jimmy Dobson, they should think long and hard about how that could be.

[sauu4equality]

Wmanion,

I appreciate your open mindedness and your insight. Until we can be tolerant and accepting of each other within the GLBT community, we do not deserve the tolerance and acceptance of the straight community.

Straight people are accepted because they deserve acceptance? Social justice is not dependent on whether or not the ones being oppressed deserve equality. But, as my post has changed above, and I have posted in other places on this site, we should certainly accept others regardless of their differing opinions. I strongly urge you to read the blog of Andrew Sullivan (a Log Cabin Republican) before making your final decision on who to vote for. You cannot blame the people of this site for being frustated with Republicans in general. It is not easy to tolerate those that contribute to our oppression. As a whole, Soulforce and the GLBT community do a good job of this. Frustration is not preventing our equality. And we have every right to be frustrated.

[Northern_Imager]

:cool:In my web searching I came across this Salon article taken from the book On Being Certain by neurologist Dr. Robert Burton about why people are so convinced about their beliefs on whatever. He gives some insight as to why people are so certain about their bigoted, racist and homophobic views. I would urge you all to give it a look. I posted this on another thread in this forum but it seems appropriate to the discussion here.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader...nty/print.html

The certainty epidemic
We all seem convinced we're right about politics, religion or science these days. What makes us so sure of ourselves?
By Robert Burton
__________________

[ladyinred]

I grew up overseas and here, but when I was overseas, I heard what a great democracy our country was and how people were more equal than before, but when I came back to the US I was shocked (I mean shocked!!!)to find the opposite, racism still was pretty blatant. Because I've lived in another culture I was around different people of different backrounds. So I haven't developed the mindset that other people may have about blacks. Because I wasn't around it as much. We had black kids in our schools and they were normally accepted, I didn't hear alot of bigotry back then. A friend of mine who was a black came from a highly educated family, the worst thing I called her when I got mad at her was an idiot(Actually I wrote it down in a note and she corrected my bad spelling.LOL)

I also when overseas was exposed to some pretty radical ideas. Let's just say mind opening. Since I lived around people of different cultures and upbringings, I guess I many times get along with them better than my white counterparts. Robert Burney wrote that there will always be people who think for some reason they are superior to someone else, and as a result they will judge or look down on the other person, he said this was also the case with racism, but that notion doesn't mean that the other person is inferior because of it, it was the same case with Hitler looking at jews as a sub-class of human beings. Anyway won't get into the psychology, but like anything else people can be conditioned by their upbringing to be intolerant of others. Unthinking and programmed by that.

[Rick336]

Anyway won't get into the psychology, but like anything else people can be conditioned by their upbringing to be intolerant of others. Unthinking and programmed by that.

I agree. It's a tragedy that so many young minds are programmed to feel superior to others. And this is not just a conservative Republican thing. Many so called "enlightened" liberals believe they are superior to people who live in trailer parks and go to tractor pulls. If they hear somebody using the term "colored people" instead of "people of color" they immediately label them intolerant racists. But they have no problem with labels describing rural white Southerners as "hicks", "hayseeds", "trailer trash," "rednecks" or "inbreds".

It seems that everybody has to have somebody to feel superior to.

Rick

[inca nitta]

I agree. It's a tragedy that so many young minds are programmed to feel superior to others. And this is not just a conservative Republican thing. Many so called "enlightened" liberals believe they are superior to people who live in trailer parks and go to tractor pulls. If they hear somebody using the term "colored people" instead of "people of color" they immediately label them intolerant racists. But they have no problem with labels describing rural white Southerners as "hicks", "hayseeds", "trailer trash," "rednecks" or "inbreds".

It seems that everybody has to have somebody to feel superior to.

Rick


Once again Rick,

I am impressed with your words of wisdom.:applause::applause::applause:

I agree that everybody has to have somebody to feel superior to, I must add that everybody is too quick to expose the biases of others, while at the same time, is unwilling to recognize the biases of their own.

[Ningmom]

Quoting:
It is a quiet thing here in rural PA, but the sense that "they don't like blacks" runs deep.

---------

I have a liberal friend who recently moved to Pennsylvania, and he calls it "Pennsyltucky" and says it's Pittsburgh on one side and Philly on the other and Alabama everywhere in between. He also said that at one point, PA led the nation in hate crime. Don't know if that's just the result of the kind of statistical reporting various states use, or if it's accurate...but at any rate, it sure doesn't sound like a very friendly place if you're not white/straight/republican/christian!

[Rick336]

roger schank is a former professor of stanford, yale, and northwestern universities. Here's his opinion of why he thinks many americans vote republican:

When I travel, i live the life of an intellectual. In florida, I hang out with jocks and retirees. I try not to talk politics with them. When, it happens that I have no choice but to hear what they think about politics I take note of it. Here is what I have heard:


1. They don't like blacks. Forget the rest. It isn't that they are racists. They will be polite if a black person ever appears. (this doesn't happen much, although i am sure they must live here too.) they just don't like them. They have no reason. If you ask them today, as a result of recent remarks by michelle obama and their pastor, they will say that blacks hate america. This is not the reason, but they sound more reasoned in their own minds if they say it that way.

2. They don't like wussies. The democrats are always nominating wussies,—men who are not men. Obama looks like his wife runs the show at home. Kerry? Gore? Dukakis. Wussies. Not real men. Bad people are trying to kill us. We need to kill them first. Those guys wouldn't pull the trigger. (i am not making this up. I wish i were.)

3. They worry about money. Who wants to take their money away? Liberals of course. They want to give it to the blacks.




Rick


"They" LOST!!!:applause::agree::weee::lol:

[keltic63]

Quoting:
It is a quiet thing here in rural PA, but the sense that "they don't like blacks" runs deep.

---------

I have a liberal friend who recently moved to Pennsylvania, and he calls it "Pennsyltucky" and says it's Pittsburgh on one side and Philly on the other and Alabama everywhere in between. He also said that at one point, PA led the nation in hate crime. Don't know if that's just the result of the kind of statistical reporting various states use, or if it's accurate...but at any rate, it sure doesn't sound like a very friendly place if you're not white/straight/republican/christian!

I got a little dose of that this morning at work. Even the "educated" teachers have some deeply held prejudices. John Murtha was right, he took some heat for it, but what he said was true. A fellow teacher with a more open mind showed me what was on the white board a local bar: it was an anagram for "CHANGE" Come Help A N* Get Elected.... and the stuff I heard this morning referred to what kind of food might be served at the white house from now on. I was so angry I walked out, but I have resolved to speak my mind from now on.

[sarahbina]

Obviously - more people do like blacks!

The election loudly proclaims this don't you think?

[tdogg]

One of my employees was complaining about another worker crying the country will be ruined now that Obama has been elected. She said he was a Muslim and she saw the internet picture where he was participating in muslim rituals. That proves he's a bad person. I'm sure race had something to do with it. (Oh, and I'm about 99.9% sure she voted yes on 8.) My employee told her it's all lies and don't bring it around her anymore.

People actually believe the lies. Furthermore, who gives a crap what religion Obama is - I don't anyway. He believes that his religious opinions should not be forced upon anyone else, and that all people should be treated equally under the law. He has great ideas, worthy ideals, and he brings hope to our despair, and light to our darkness. He is the right choice, American got this one right. I'm so excited of what the future will bring.