Constitution Day

[antiochian]

Hello all, I just got out of my Intro to Christian Thought class, which has been very interesting thus far. Today, being it's the above-mentioned day, the prof went into the whole separation of Church and state thing, stating that though the idea comes from a letter of Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, it wasn't given its present-day meaning (no religious influence at all in government) until the KKK and the Know-Nothings implemented the term as a tool against Catholics having any power in government.

So the prof's whole thesis was that naughty liberals are reinterpreting the idea of separation of church and state to pick on the Christians for having manger scenes and such, and apparently someone had a beef at the time over the fact that the first astronaut to see the moon from space quoted a scripture.

I spoke up and stated I agree it's a bit extreme to tell people they can't pray privately in school (which has apparently happened), or talk about God, say "Merry Christmas" or whatever; but then there's the other end of the spectrum where people want to legislate their beliefs to control the conduct and lives of others, specifically in this age and more so in this election. I said we need to keep the concept (separation of church and state) balanced and not just say it's "anti-Christian bigots" who try to twist this.

So, here are some quotes from the lecture. Appreciate your thoughts!


"Our Constitution was designed for a moral and religious people only. It is wholly inadequate for any other." --John Adams

"The Americans combine the notions of it [religion] and liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive of one without the other." --Alexis de Tocqueville

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor." --George Washington

[u-dog]

A good book on this subject is Jon Meachum's "American Gospel: God, the Founding fathers, and .... something"

Meachum is not anti-Christian or anti-religion but he goes very thoroughly into what the founders were talking about specifically when they talked about religion, God, etc. Even GW, who was probably the most orthodox of the bunch, didn't mean exactly what conservatives think he meant when he spoke of "providence" etc. It's been a while since I read the book but its excellent and I recommend it. It's not a hard read by any means.

[Rick336]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the freedom of press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. - Amendment 1,The Constitution of the United States.

What I think this means is; if you put a Nativity Scene on the Courthouse lawn, you better leave room for the Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, Native American, Wiccan, Hindu, Buddhist, Winter Solstice and Pagan holidays too.

That's going to be a crowded lawn.

Rick

[Rick336]

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor." --George Washington

Here's a depiction of Americans obeying the will of "Almighty God" In Salem, Massachusetts in 1692.

http://www.coryfamsoc.com/resources/articles/images/Sal_hang.jpg

Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."



Rick