Is the Soulforce Forum passé?

[Daniel]

I've been participating on this forum of three years (if memory serves!). And I've noticed that in the last year- and especially in the last 4 months- the traffic on the forum has dwindled. At least, that's been my impression. Makes me wonder if the place only survives on controversy. (Yes.....you might say I am starting some of my own....but humor me.)

And by traffic, I mean discussions. There seems to have been a dearth of substantial discussions of late. Why is that I wonder? Is it the times we live in now? Are people concerned with the the price of gas, the elections and the world financial melt-down? Are they rightly too busy with their lives to be online worrying and posting about gay people of faith? And if so, could that be a good thing?

In the past, during an ERide, there was all manner of posts here, on both sides of the issue. Not this time. Same reason as before? I wonder.

This begs the question: is the Soulforce Forum passé?

What do you think?

A natural lull of a sign of something else?

[BrianB]

I hope this isn't seen as an attack. That is not my intention. Daniel, your question makes me wonder if people with opposing view points believe they are being jumped on for an attack when they are simply stating their argument. IMHO, sometimes the moderators are a bit quick on the trigger in pulling a post. I realize this needs to be a safe space but does that mean eliminating every distasteful post or sending it to the
foyer? Maybe there are other reasons for the lull. It could be that people are just too busy to post very much. Will it take some arrests on the E-ride to get things stirred up?

[Daniel]

I hope this isn't seen as an attack. That is not my intention. Daniel, your question makes me wonder if people with opposing view points believe they are being jumped on for an attack when they are simply stating their argument. IMHO, sometimes the moderators are a bit quick on the trigger in pulling a post. I realize this needs to be a safe space but does that mean eliminating every distasteful post or sending it to the foyer? Maybe there are other reasons for the lull. It could be that people are just too busy to post very much. Will it take some arrests on the E-ride to get things stirred up?

Don't perceive your post as an attack. (But you know what? An attack might get things going! :lol: And of course, my mind goes on to ask something of a metaphysical question: does nonviolence action depend on violence for its existence? How very gnostic of me!)

I'm not sure that the matter is about moderators deleting posts. That's not what I see happening. After all, one has only to check the date on the activity of posts in the Foyer to see that no one's being sent there.

But oh! That could prove your point in a way!

[Rick336]

I have actually deleted some of my own posts after posting them here because I felt they were too controversial. I am an atheist, and a lot of times (at least this year anyway) I hold back on many of my opinions about religion. I do that because a lot of people on this forum are Christians and are good, loving people.

Besides, of all the LGBT Rights groups, this one is on the front lines in the fight for LGBT equality. The Equality Rides and the American Family Outings have given me a deep respect for Soulforce. If it takes Christianity to open the doors to communication with our opponents, then I say go for it.

That's why I sometimes feel like I need to keep my viewpoint in the closet in this forum so I don't drive anybody away or hurt the cause of Soulforce. After all, this is a Christian based organization founded by a Christian leader.

So maybe I need to chill. I don't know. Society in general thinks we atheists need to keep our mouths shut because we upset way too many people. But, like it or not, religion is coming under greater scrutiny in America. Just as segregation of African Americans did in the 50s and homosexuality is undergoing today, a rapidly growing number of non-believers are challenging the old beliefs of their ancestors. Some of the best selling books of 2007 were "The God Delusion," "God is NOT Great," and "The End of Faith." Right now in theaters there's a documentary titled, "Religulous" which is asking some serious questions about religion. (the title is a combination of the words religion and ridiculous)

As the number of non-believers grows and Soulforce grows, chances are there will be more gay atheists coming to this forum in the future. I'm not sure how Soulforce or this forum will handle it but my hope is that we can continue to treat each other's views with respect.

If controversy is the reason the posts have been slack in the past few months, I sure hope mine didn't contributed to it. It's likely however, that my opinions don't carry that much weight among the truly faithful.

Rick

[pnggrad79]

I haven't posted as often because my school network has blocked the site and I can't get on SF during the day. I check it often though when I get home. I don't feel it is passe', Daniel. And I don't think people need to keep their opinions and feelings "in the closet". If you can't be free here, you can't be free. This is a place where all opinions are welcome, within good taste, of course, and all opinions need to be shared. There is such a thing as tact, and writing in a way as to not offend, but sharing nonetheless is what we are all about. :)

[labguy22]

I am an atheist, and a lot of times (at least this year anyway) I hold back on many of my opinions about religion.

So maybe I need to chill. I don't know. Society in general thinks we atheists need to keep our mouths shut because we upset way too many people.
Rick

Thanks Daniel for getting the ball rolling.

Rick, I had no idea you were an Atheist; please do not keep your mouth shut.

I come to this site because I love reading the different points of view; I already know what I think about a topic and I enjoy hearing from Scotty, Zerbie, Daniel and the many others who are not Christian.

We can agree to agree or disagree and as long as we express our ideas without attacking each other this is still a safe place to me. :)

[keltic63]

I hope this isn't seen as an attack. That is not my intention. Daniel, your question makes me wonder if people with opposing view points believe they are being jumped on for an attack when they are simply stating their argument. IMHO, sometimes the moderators are a bit quick on the trigger in pulling a post. I realize this needs to be a safe space but does that mean eliminating every distasteful post or sending it to the
foyer? Maybe there are other reasons for the lull. It could be that people are just too busy to post very much. Will it take some arrests on the E-ride to get things stirred up?



:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(

[Daniel]

Well. This is shaping into an interesting convesation. Interesting because my original intent was to highlight the dearth of interaction with the regulars of this forum and those impacted (I sometimes have trouble using this word- it brings to mind the surface of the moon- no air- craters and lifeless) by the ERide. Interesting- because it seems to have motivated some self-questioning.

I have actually deleted some of my own posts after posting them here because I felt they were too controversial.

That's why I sometimes feel like I need to keep my viewpoint in the closet in this forum so I don't drive anybody away or hurt the cause of Soulforce. After all, this is a Christian based organization founded by a Christian leader.

So maybe I need to chill. I don't know.

I've deleted a few of my own in past weeks because I posted some cheeky stuff and thought better of it. But I wasn't being controversial. Far from it. It was just me being pissy.

Now. I am very much AGAINST your not posting because you think your views are not orthodox, that is, Christian enough. They count very much here. My feeling is that we can only understand our own point of view when we see it highlighted by another point of view. Kinda like studying a foreign language. One learns one's own much better in the proccess.

BTW- This Buddha Boy loved The God Delusion!


I already know what I think about a topic and I enjoy hearing from Scotty, Zerbie, Daniel and the many others who are not Christian.

What? I'm not a Christian?! :lol:;)

No. I guess I am not. At least not as others are. I took a different road after I came out and left the AoG church. Went 'East'. And believe me, the sights out there are very interesting. My own opinion is that we could all stand a little travel away from home. May be the only way to know what home actually is. Cue the Wizard of Oz!

There's no place like home!

Now. To come full circle (sort of), I want to reiterate that I don't think the issue here is the deleting of posts. So I think we can go easy on Steve. My sense is that - for one reason or another- people aren't showing up here as they have in the past!

Getting to the bottom of that. That's what I'm concerned about.

[Zerbie]

Hi.

Several points, in no particular order:

* Keltic works his *** off to walk a tightrope between allowing "questioners" to visit here with their lines of reasoning that prompt all of us to say "here we go again," to determine when disagreements are fair and need to be voiced, and when that mysteriously shifting line between disagreement and invective has been crossed.
Rather than blame moderators for being too trigger happy with post-removal or moving, we need to look at all of our collective responses to various types of disagreement with visitors and amongst one another.
It's my opinion that we are, as a group, a little quick to press for our decidedly liberationist view, (which makes sense, given that's what we're all here for,) but we sometimes do this even with someone who may not be ready to make a coming-out decision, or may not want to at all. We need to be careful of things like that.

Rick - I wish you wouldn't refrain from voicing your opinions. It really bothers me deeply that there is a cultural negativity around atheists and atheism. For heavens' sake (sorry:p), don't go into a closet!

I also see the forum has slowed down. Funny that should happen right now, as I hit a personal burnout.

I ran into complications to something I was working on in September, which thoroughly exhausted me and I have had it up to here with activism at the moment. On top of which, I am very busy working on my degree. I haven't had the interest or energy for participating much in serious discussions the past few months.

Seems odd that most of the others seem to be lessening their participation at the same time, too.

Well. Fora go in cycles - busy phases and slow phases. I imagine this one will pick up in time.

[scott snedeker]

"It was fascination...I know!"

The energy from within me crests and wans. At times you can't get me off of the forum and other times ......HO Hum!

But what's worse is the tactic of commercial media. Make everything that has negative inflammatory potential your topic and blow it out of proportion set to frenetic dramatic music and feed this poison to consumer masses.

'swhy I haven't had satellite tv for more than two years now.

But I find that in practicing meditation that not only is good thought hygiene important when I am alone, but it is also essential when communicating with others.

We have been taught so many unhealthy ways to think and talk and live that often we struggle to do otherwise!

I would like to see us create our own topics more often, rather than posts with reactive comments about other's activities.

[tdogg]

I've been slowed down here for a few reasons. Work keeps me busy and I can't always get online when I'm traveling which I do quite often. Also, now that I'm back in school, that takes a lot of time and computer use (on-line classes). Plus my better half has done some complaining in the past about the amount of time I used to be on the computer so I've slowed down a bit.

We haven't had many 'fun' topics to discuss lately. It's been mainly politics, equality and the like. I do believe the SF forums are very important and they are in my life. Even if things are on an even keel, and there's not much controversy to keep lively conversations up, I find it a safe and comfortable place to just hang out and chat (or read).

There are a lot of new members, but I haven't had much time to spend welcoming them. To all of you, welcome, I'll get there sooner or later!

[BrianB]

:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(

Keltic, you and Jamie do a great job moderating here; a much better job than I could. Maybe I was lookinng for a quick answer to Daniel's question. I know moderating is a tough job. You deserve a prize for keeping the peace. :award:

[Alecto]

The first time I remember it happening was the (first) OJ Simpson trial. If something's in the media WAY too much, I get sick of it, and react, and avoid it at all costs. It probably sounds bad, but that's how I am with the election at this point, and for awhile now, most of the posts have been election related in some way or another.

When I first joined, I was pretty sure my views on nonviolence didn't totally mesh with the Soulforce mission, and that caused some weirdness in how (or if) I'd respond to some posts, but...I kind of got over it. If it's with a new person, I include the disclaimer about how I'm no one special connected to soulforce, but here's my take.

Things that might help activity: it IS helpful to have someone on the Rides who can frequent the forums for awhile. Perhaps in the future, some planning ahead can be done; maybe that's a position to be filled? In the meantime, I feel like we've already covered all the basics. Everyone's got their coming out story somewhere in the back-history, everyone's got their history with religion somewhere, I seem to remember talking about Outting, gay movies...it's like we've covered all the "standard fare" that we probably should, so we end up reacting to News.

[BenL]

As with Zerbie's post, these items are not ranked in any particular order ... just the order in which I thought of them.

- I consider myself a liberal/progressive Christian. The Episcopal Church happens to be where I find myself on Sunday mornings, but my spirituality is wider than the denomination to which I pledge. I grew up a Roman Catholic, but found it too restrictive and moved to Anglicanism more than 35 years ago. That's my religious background.

- Because of that background, I know very little about evangelical/fundamentalist (I know they're different!) theology or culture. So many of the discussions are couched in this idiom, and I often read them with interest but don't comment on them. Conversely, I find that not as many people have been in interested in the threads I have started, so have shied away somewhat.

- I retired at the end of August ... more accurately I allowed my company to buy me out. Now, it might seem counterintuitive, but while I have more disposable time, I have less time to spend online. I was online all day at work, so checking in at SF was easy. I'm more involved with the non-digital, 3D world in retirement, and only check email and groups like SF once a day ... and some days not at all.

- I'm working on a book project. I don't know if it will come to fruition, it's in the research stages. It is very time-consuming. I'd love to bounce some of the topics off of some of you, but I don't know if that's appropriate here. The working title is Gospel Meditations from the Margins. I am discovering that the margins aren't only on the fringe but exist at the core of every society as well, just as what we consider marginal to our personality or psyche can often be found at the core of our beings after the kind of careful self-examination that happens in therapy or meditation. It is not specifically LGBT in focus except where the gay/bi/trans community has been marginalized by the majority culture. My goal is to show that all sorts of people are marginalized and that the good news is that God loves them and cares about them more than they can even imagine.

- Some people love a good argument. Most of those threads have moved to the foyer, but occasionally an old thread will be bumped and will get a flurry of activity. I usually don't jump into those because I feel like everything has been said that needs to be said.

- I would love that the reason for lowered activity is that more people are ho-hum about other people's sexual orientation and/or gender identity and expression. Of course, we care about those things, so there's no excuse for us not to post.

My 2-bits worth.

[marutidas]

Do you think it could be the lack of controversy that is causing the forums to wane? Some of the people who come start some really blood boiling conversations, but is that what keeps us coming back for more. Is it the fight to show the willfully ingnorant who come he who we really are that gets us addicted?

[Gennee]

Soulforce will always be a viable force in the fight for LBT equality, especially on the campuses of Christian colleges. Some have come here because it's the only place where they can open up about their sexual/gender identity and their spirituality.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I welcome controversy. It can expose us to different viewpoints. It can serve to sharpen us as we minister to others in the future. I have learned in life that one may not agree with someone but there can be some common ground found. Rick, if you have something to say, go ahead and say it! You have every right to express your viewpoint.

Though we all come from many different experiences, we are all human beings who are to be respected.

Gennee

:love:

[tymejumper]

It makes me sad that others feel they can't say what they want to for fear of what will happen.

We should be able to state our views without using hateful language or being to nasty. I don't see why others should feel that they can't share their views and feelings, even if you are not agreeing with others or if you are not of the 'standard' religion or belief. As long as you are respectful and and post with an actual open mind, willingness to hear others view, and agree to disagree, we are all adults here and should be able to act as such. I love to hear others view and post my own dissent!

We also need to be mindful of the fact that sometimes we ALL have bad days and ALL post at times that are(to quote Daniel) 'pissy' or maybe not the most appropriate. Some days are like that. Those are the times we have to forgive each other and realize we are human.

I have not seen many posts go to the foyer these days, but a bit of excitement is not a bad thing. I feel that we have need to have a place where we can spew our venom and it's not unexpected. The foyer is that place.

[Daniel]

Hey Anthony! I read the post you deleted in this space earlier today. And I have to wonder why. You advocated - or so I surmised- a liberal sharing of ideas and opinions. And while I wasn't really clear about who you were quoting and why (aside from the Coming Out Day reference). You certainly got my attention. You seemed upset.

It's one thing to take a stand. It's another to edit one's self out completely. I'd rather you do the former and not the latter.

[Zerbie]

Antony H??

I've missed our Antony. If there is a reason for him not being around (other than being busy making the world a much better place,) I hope we find out why -- maybe there is something we can come to terms with in our interactions here.

I know there have been a couple/few times in the past where a regular member ran into something disagreeable to them about the way we have all dialogued, and departed. I'm not sure we have heard why, and in one case, I remember distinctly wondering and wondering what had happened - but if it has happened more than once or twice, then maybe we are contributing to a problem in the way we relate. Maybe we need to look at something about the way we conduct conversation here.

How can we improve the way we relate on this forum?

[Rick336]

The first time I remember it happening was the (first) OJ Simpson trial. If something's in the media WAY too much, I get sick of it, and react, and avoid it at all costs. It probably sounds bad, but that's how I am with the election at this point, and for awhile now, most of the posts have been election related in some way or another.


I agree about the OJ Simpson trial back in 1995. I was so sick of hearing about the trial day after day after day. I was also sick of hearing about the Vietnam war back in the sixties. Every night the 6:00 news would report about the war going on near Saigon or Hanoi or the bombings in Cambodia. There was news footage of helicopters picking up the injured and the dead night after night. And then there were the war protests, day after day thousands of people marching in the streets waving signs, students rioting on university campuses, riots in the streets. It seemed like it was never going to end.

And then there was Watergate in the seventies. I was so sick of hearing about Watergate on and on day after day. Nixon says, "I'm not a crook, I'm not a crook." Saturday Night Live parodies him for years.

But somehow, this time it's different. I'm not sick at all of the 2008 presidential campaigns. This has been by far the most exciting election in my memory especially with all the other big news going on about the stock market crash and the economy and Iraq war and same sex marriage and the possible election of the first African American president or first woman vice president. We're seeing lots of history being made here right in front of us and that's why I'm paying close attention. It's like a really good movie. And I can't wait to see what happens next. :eek:

Rick

[Matt Algren]

Speaking for myself, I've been surprised since I got here at how inactive the boards are. On the one hand, we're a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority, so there's a limited number of people to be involved. On the other, there's a lot to talk about.

When I came onboard a few months ago, I was immediately suprised by the lack of deeper theological discussion, gay-related or otherwise. I'm pretty active on another forum, and it's almost impossible to have a good conversation about Christianity. Every time I try to strike up a conversation (or someone else does) it quickly devolves into "Is the Bible true?" or "Is there a God?", and frankly, I don't want to have that conversation over and over, especially not with people who've already decided that I'm wrong and are chomping at the bit to tell me I'm stupid. That is to say, I want to be able to start with certain things taken as read, and that's next to impossible on a board that doesn't specialize in religion.

As much as I recognize and respect the fact that not everybody here is a Christian, I'd love to be able to talk about my faith without having to start with the basics. The only thread around here in recent memory that deals with religion/faith/the Bible is one started with the purpose of poking fun. (And I don't mean that as an attack. Lord knows I'm in for some poking fun from time to time.)

[BenL]

As much as I recognize and respect the fact that not everybody here is a Christian, I'd love to be able to talk about my faith without having to start with the basics. The only thread around here in recent memory that deals with religion/faith/the Bible is one started with the purpose of poking fun. (And I don't mean that as an attack. Lord knows I'm in for some poking fun from time to time.)


Matt,

I, too, miss the days when we talked theology and/or spirituality around here. I remember when both udog and Andy (both Calvinists :eek:) could spend more time theologizing here. I was in awe of their knowledge of Scripture and the biblical languages and their ability to put questions of religion into context. I enjoy the Budhist and pagan/wiccan positions expressed here, because all of this comes from the force of the universe, call her what you will. I especially like to hear good news over and over again about how I am loved, cherished actually, by that same power we struggle to understand (all except the atheists, Rick?). I learn from Rick and others, too. They seem even more tuned into the human condition sometimes than we more religious types are. I feel we need all the voices of good will here that we can muster. I will try not to be so absent and so silent in future.

[andrewlittle]

I would probably have more of an opinion, but I haven't been around much so I haven't noticed the lack of involvement.

I am inclined to think that, much like most other things, people who participate on Soulforce have rhythms and cycles. I know I do, and my quiet part of my cycle has been particularly long this time. Anyway, the cycles aren't a particular problem, unless a number of regulars enter a low spot in their cycles at the same time.

It's either that, or some of you folks conspired to get quiet at the same time I did just to make my absence more noticeable. I really don't appreciate you intentionally making me look like I haven't been here, and I urge you to cut it out. The whole point of being absent is to be unnoticeable, after all.

As for the discussion about people thinking they shouldn't say what they think because some of us might get our knickers in a wad - why the hell would you take our fun away? Some of us like a good pucker once in a while - it gives us an opportunity to wax on fondly and relentlessly about what we think we know about the unknowable.

Jeez! What the heck happened to you people while I was gone. Oh crappe - forget I said that. I haven't really been gone. Just overlook what I said and act like I'm not here.

[Jennifer5]

I think this question might have been all we needed to get things going again. For me the lack of posting hsa nothing to do with the things going on here at this point in time, I would love to respond to many of these threads, I just can't. I've tried to get a little self-control and when I come on here, I want to respond to something really fast, so if there isn't a short fun thing I just just respond quickly to, I get off. I make myself go back to my schoolwork.

So, my excuses....

I spend about 90% of my waking hours working on schoolwork :(

When I get a chance I go on facebook or some kind of IM to talk to someone, but Nate is the only one of use that I can get ahold of that way (which I've been enjoying). So he's the only forum member I really can talk to when I don't have much time.

When I do get time off, it is away from the computer. I help my mom with her cleaning business sometimes, which is a nice break from schoolwork. Then occasionally go and do something with friends.

I think the only reason for the lack of activity on here is the lack of time. :o

[tpdncr4christ]

If I may, I can see three possible reasons for folks not posting here on the forums.

Personally, I got tired of the argument. I would find myself becoming way too emotionally involved in the discussions, to the extent where it was affecting my regular life. And, as much as I love it here, I had to devote more time to the people in my life who weren't just words on a computer screen... Does that make sense?

Another reason I can see for a lull in the forums is a genuine lack of interest. Everyone, it seems, has heard all of the arguments both for and against homosexuality, and all of the different interpretations of scripture and ideologies of how much a government should influence social practices. The majority of the American population is starting to ignore these issues. Aside from the battle in California, we take the sidelines for everything. There really isn't a great passion for gay rights in this country anymore. Too much else is happening, society is too busy to focus on gay rights, so it would make sense that a forum of this nature would have a lull.

And thirdly (remember, I'm only just speculating), it may be simply because not too many people know about Soulforce. Honestly, if you were to walk down the street and ask the first ten people you ran into, "Hey, what do you think about Soulforce, and its position on homosexuality?" How many people would be able to answer that question? How many people would even know what we are? I know in my neighborhood people might think that Soulforce was some new age religion or something.

That's just my thoughts...

[Alecto]

See...I kind of agree with you on the first point, but kind of not tpdancer. Any discussion, especially with differences of opinion, represents an investment of time and emotional energy. Some appear to be worth it (and often they are, ending with both parties having a better understanding of the other), and a great many, especially about gay topics, simply aren't. Not often, but on occasion I've chosen to stay quiet here because I came to the conclusion that a given discussion simply wasn't worth my time (which it's going to take a certain amount of) or my energy (which I can have a little more control over sometimes, hopefully, if I don't let some things get me all worked up).

That first reason ties into your second reason then. YES, we've all rehashed the basic arguments. Truth is, though, if we think someone's here in good faith (specifically new folks), and they've done the effort of a basic forum search before trotting out the same question, it goes a ways towards implying that that discussion might be "worth it". Even if it's strikingly similar to ones we've had last year. Even if it's boring and passe for us, it might be worth it (though it's a lot more worth it to find the dead thread, link it, and pick up from there).

[Daniel]

I understand about being emotionally pulled into a discussion- and not getting/obtaining one's goals in life. That said, not everyone is here for the same reason or at the same time in their life.


Another reason I can see for a lull in the forums is a genuine lack of interest. Everyone, it seems, has heard all of the arguments both for and against homosexuality, and all of the different interpretations of scripture and ideologies of how much a government should influence social practices. The majority of the American population is starting to ignore these issues. Aside from the battle in California, we take the sidelines for everything. There really isn't a great passion for gay rights in this country anymore. Too much else is happening, society is too busy to focus on gay rights, so it would make sense that a forum of this nature would have a lull.

For me- this is the most serious argument to be made.

Is the population starting to ignore gay rights? And is there a lack of passion for gay rights?

My own sense is that there doesn't seem to be a 'taking it to the streets' kind of involvement any more. I've even heard this remarked about by gay activists such as Andy Humm and Ann Northrop here in NYC.

Could be a good and bad thing. Good because gay rights may be figuring less and less - negatively that is- into politics. Bad because everyone is too occupied with chasing the brass ring. As such, our culture of comfort may be killing us.

You last point about people not knowing about SF is perhaps the most salient one. And one which the 'office' is most concerned.

[Zerbie]

For me- this is the most serious argument to be made.

Is the population starting to ignore gay rights? And is there a lack of passion for gay rights?

My own sense is that there doesn't seem to be a 'taking it to the streets' kind of involvement any more. I've even heard this remarked about.

True.
But not just gay rights. Everything. There is almost no take it to the streets involvement on any issue. We've been collectively discouraged from that sort of thing for decades, a generation or so. It surely doesn't help that so many people have faced police harassment or arrest when they were WELL within their legal and free speech rights. But that alone is not it. Most people don't even think in terms of 'take it to the streets' action. I think we're taught that only 'weird' people, some kind of activist 'fringe,' do that.

[tymejumper]

As for the discussion about people thinking they shouldn't say what they think because some of us might get our knickers in a wad - why the hell would you take our fun away? Some of us like a good pucker once in a while - it gives us an opportunity to wax on fondly and relentlessly about what we think we know about the unknowable.


Knickers in a wad?:lol::lol::lol: Face it, some of us just love a good debate and need to vent our spleens once in a while. Personally, I don't mind tuning in, getting all pi**ed off and posting what I think needs to be said. My wife is so used to me getting that way over the editorials in the newspaper, that she threatend me that she would cancel the subscription. What? I said, you will remove the means of getting all my aggression out. Better than kicking the dog I always say! :D:D:D

[wmanion]

I may not post a lot but I am always on here and always reading and learning. There are times that I feel inadequate to voice my opinion on a subject, (which really boils down to a lack of confidence) but when I have a firm grasp (at least in my mind) of what is being said, then I will comment. However, I have always been a person who reads and learns from others and it is something I find that I need. I find Zerbie, Daniel, Steve, Andy, Jamie, Kara, Scott (both of them), Udog, and many others, very knowledgeable and I love reading and learning from them. I find a lot of times that no matter what we believe and what means we use to grow and establish ourselves, we are all seeking the same things in our lives. We are all seeking acceptance which begins in our own lives and then can be passed on to others. I would hope that SoulForce's Forum never becomes passe' and that it continues to thrive and grow. Of course over time it will evolve as we realize our own freedoms and goals being reached, but it will not lose its purpose. We know from all the Civil right movements that just because equality under the law is attained, it will be years down the road before it is truly realized and becomes whole in its completeness. This election year has shown that although equality was given to a group of people many years ago, it is still far from becoming the reality that it needs to be. We have made great bounds with more to to come but it will years and years in the making and SoulForce will still be needed to play a major role in the battles that are yet to come.

Bill

[Unmasked]

My biggest issue is a time crunch. It takes a lot of time to be a full-time student, and a double-agent Crusader for both Christianity and Secular Humanism. I spend most of my time on facebook being angry at the Church, and on YouTube defending it from rabid anti-theists. I love atheists, I think the world might be a better place if there were more of them, but I dislike anti-theists, because I find them to be dogmatic and scary (if anybody has a problem with that statement, please do confront and educate me...nicely though, I scare easily). I've questioned my belief in the Divine many times, and held many positions. My beliefs are quite honestly more neo-pagan than anything. I believe in the teachings of Christ, and I think that the idea of The Way, The Truth, and The Life refers more to the teachings than anything else. I feel that many are too fatalistic, more "Crossian" than Christian. It seems like the key issues in Christianity are the death of Christ and the teachings of Paul. I do not believe that Christ is the Son of God, but simply a son of G-dde. I believe that every person can ascend to the level of Christ, and become a savior to somebody.

I don't post as much as I would like to, but I consider myself a part of this beautiful community, and to be doing the work of Christ, who I do believe was sent by G-dde to save us from guilt, despair, and the chains of religious dogma.

And as I've gotten off-topic and started wandering around the interweb, I'll let the conversation get back to where it was :)

[Zerbie]

Folks, I am starting to think Daniel may have been on to something. This forum has been really, really slow for the past while - at least a month, it seems.

We don't have nearly the traffic we used to, nor nearly as many in depth, lively, and engaging conversations.

I'm not posting as much myself now that I see less activity, and fewer enticing discussions. Are we just in a slow phase?

Will we come back to our previous lively discussions after the elections are over?

[Jennifer5]

Folks, I am starting to think Daniel may have been on to something. This forum has been really, really slow for the past while - at least a month, it seems.

We don't have nearly the traffic we used to, nor nearly as many in depth, lively, and engaging conversations.

I'm not posting as much myself now that I see less activity, and fewer enticing discussions. Are we just in a slow phase?

Will we come back to our previous lively discussions after the elections are over?

I hope you're right! It would be nice to see the forums go back to what they were. :pray:

[wmanion]

Folks, I am starting to think Daniel may have been on to something. This forum has been really, really slow for the past while - at least a month, it seems.

We don't have nearly the traffic we used to, nor nearly as many in depth, lively, and engaging conversations.

I'm not posting as much myself now that I see less activity, and fewer enticing discussions. Are we just in a slow phase?

Will we come back to our previous lively discussions after the elections are over?

I also hope things will be back to "normal" after the elections. I have felt so much negativity within the last 30 days of this election that it has been overwhelming. This race has been more about the "isms" than the actual issues that face Americans and I am sure this race will go down in history as one of the nastiest of our nation. However, I believe hope and a positive outlook are only hours away for many of us.

Bill

[Eugene]

And by traffic, I mean discussions. There seems to have been a dearth of substantial discussions of late. Why is that I wonder? Is it the times we live in now? Are people concerned with the the price of gas, the elections and the world financial melt-down?

The price of gas is a non-issue for the moment. Wait a few months, and we'll see.

The world financial melt-down will, in my opinion, have implications for gay rights in the United States. Prosperity and social freedom are somehow linked. I can't give you logic for why I think that. I just sense that it is true. Maybe I am just a pessimist. (Well, there's no "maybe" to it. I am a pessimist.)

[BruceChris]

I like the forums, I like to read, and post. If I feel a need to research someone, I can go back and read many of their previous posts. I feel that I've made many friends here, although it would be wonderful to meet in person. (For a short while, I had to work to convince Zerbie that I wasn't going to stalk her, but hey, the gas would be WAY to spendy!)

Whosoever.org is also a Christian gay site, but it's just not the same. But they've got some nice stuff, maybe we could learn from them.

I notice that some people are just glad that we are here, and they post 2 or 3 times, and then they're gone.

We have lately gotten 2 or 3 very articulate allies, and most of them seem to be straight.

At my church, most of the members are gay, it is of course a nominally gay church, but of course gay rights verses the bible never comes up. Gay topics don't come up directly all that often, but the above are hardly reasons to stop going.

Being here is just a great way to dialogue with he gay community, and keep up on what others are saying.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[dsdrane]

My own sporadic participation over the last year can be partially chalked up to some serious settling-in/nesting with a certain dashing someone 1,500 miles and one timezone away from where I first stumbled onto this site, but mostly it has been an exercise in self-censorship. I basically got to the point where I no longer liked how I "sounded" and came to the conclusion that some disengagement was in order.

That said, I've always kept SF in my peripheral vision, peeking over here and there, if for no other reason, to reassure myself that things were continuing apace.

It would be easy to say that I'm here posting now thanks to the extra free time that accompanies a welcome -- if involuntary -- unemployment. To be honest, though, SF and its denizens have been popping into my consciousness quite a bit recently.

Maybe I'm just now getting over my election hangover. Perhaps the desire to (re-)engage comes from my activist side getting a jolt from Prop. 8...Rick Warren...the still-unfolding Anglican schism, etc., etc. Maybe I'm simply feeling more social.

Whatever it is, I welcome it because this is a moment too preganant with possibility not to be in the conversation.

[Alecto]

I do the same censoring thing. It's like, some topics I find informative, but don't really have commentary to add. Others, I'm immediately very angry, and I deliberately wait a day or two to think about what it is that makes me angry, and see if I'm still angry when I come back to it (which does on occasion have the side effect of someone saying something even WORSE in the meantime, but what can ya do?).

And there are a few that I just have a happy conversation about.
Just wanted to say I totally do the self-censorship thing too.

[Here2Learn22]

I do the same censoring thing. It's like, some topics I find informative, but don't really have commentary to add. Others, I'm immediately very angry, and I deliberately wait a day or two to think about what it is that makes me angry, and see if I'm still angry when I come back to it (which does on occasion have the side effect of someone saying something even WORSE in the meantime, but what can ya do?).

And there are a few that I just have a happy conversation about.
Just wanted to say I totally do the self-censorship thing too.

My comments in the "experiment on homophobia" topic didn't anger you did they? :( sorry if they did. I recently absorbed a lot of material, and I can get carried away...

[NathanATX]

Fantastic conversation.

The biggest reason for me not posting was having poor-to-none internet service at home. And then, I've also been busier than ever in my business.

I've missed you wonderful people. I have missed the thought-provoking conversations about spirituality. I've missed being in conversation about the commitment to bring non-violence into all areas of our lives, especially into the religious-based homophobia conversation.

My intention is that my participation here be about causing the Beloved Community to come alive in my life, in your lives and in the world.

Have a safe & FUN New Year's Celebration!

Much love,
Nathan