Palin: I won't judge you personally.....

[keltic63]

but I'm not about to let you have a same-sex marriage. (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4531945.shtml)

and she's willing to write it into the constitution, something which McCain was not willing to do.

[antiochian]

Ah, Palin the second Bush. Some of the responses to that article are pretty sad. I'm disappointed in the human race, I thought it was more intelligent than that.

[RedneckDyke]

Palin is worse than the second Bush. Bush is more a traditional republican in the sense of doing what he can so his oil buddies can make some money. Palin is much scarier than that. She's a turbo fundie zealot who would turn this country into a theocracy.

Well I ain't taking it lying down. Some of us abominations have guns.

[pnggrad79]

I agree Redneck. She would take this country back 60 years when we were all in the closet and faking it to the rest of the world. Remember it was the "love that dare not speak its name"?

I hope the polls are right and Obama has a generous lead, and gets elected. He is the best chance we have had in a long time of ever getting anywhere near equal rights.

[ctozrn]

I know the polls give him a 10-11 point lead but I for one won't breathe easy until he is in. I am so afraid of what will happen in the next 15 days. Desperate times call for desperate measures. These people are at that point! I hope the American people will wake up and really do the right thing!

Ironically, I think that Sarah Palin is the best thing that happened to the McCain campaign. Without her, he might be winning. I think people are starting to hear some of the things she is saying and thinking, "WTF?"

We can only hope!

Christine

[BruceChris]

McCain Palin will win, and shortly after the inauguration, he'll croak.

Now every president has *handlers*, and *advisors*, and her's will have been hand picked by the neo-cons, and the Wall Street lackeys.

They will allow her to make a very public career out of *saving* us, fighting the battle of Good vs Evil, and creating a theocracy, while looking good on camera.

In the mean time, they will be ruining the country, looting the treasury, and making all of us wish for the good old days, when Dubba-yah was president.

Let's hope Obama wins.

BC

[tdogg]

The race is tightening up. They only had Obama up by about 5 or 6 points. Scary enough, McC has done it before, seemed sure to lose only to win.

This scares me. Especially given McC's health. Palin definitely hates gays, she is vocally anti-gay. She is a great shot, given all the pictures of dead animals she has killed. Her speeches show me she could be angered. She has no problem doing what it takes to get her way. And at some point down the road, she could be the president of this country.

Talk about a few steps backwards. I would say we might be running for our lives. This is the most frightening and thrilling election in my voting history. Seriously, I'm on the edge of my seat every moment. I've gnawed just about every part of my cheeks and lips I can get to. My IBS is out of control.

I can't wait for it to be over, but I hope to God it's Obama. :pray:

[Matt Algren]

The race is tightening up. They only had Obama up by about 5 or 6 points. Scary enough, McC has done it before, seemed sure to lose only to win.

Races always tighten up as we get closer. The polls during the Clinton/Gore election showed a slim margin, but Clinton won by an electoral college landslide (375+ votes).

And remember, the electoral college is what counts. It'd be awesome for Obama to get in with a landslide, but he only NEEDS 270. At this stage, it's the states that most polls are saying are too close to call (based on aggregate polls) that are in real danger. CNN currently has Obama winning (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/calculator/) with 277 votes not including Ohio, Florida, Colorado, North Carolina, and Nevada, which are too close to call. It's important to note that North Carolina is considered a toss up only because it's leaning toward a Democrat, which is ridiculously uncommon. Florida, Nevada, Ohio, and Colorado all have Obama in a lead that is within the surveys' margin of error. NONE of them are trending toward McCain.

RealClearPolitics.com (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10/) has Obama in the lead with 364 votes (disallowing toss up states) and 286 if you pull out their list of toss up states, which are the five from CNN plus Indiana, North Dakota, and West Virginia. As with CNN's North Carolina status, these three are considered toss ups because they very reliably vote Republican and are showing an uncharacteristically close race.

FiveThirtyEight.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/) (my current favorite, because statistics are awesome and his methodology is first class) shows Obama winning with 344 votes based on current trends, with a 92.5% confidence based on 10,000 simulations based on the most up-to-date estimates.

The only thing that's a huge question mark right now is the state of this year's October Surprise. Some people think it hasn't happened yet, but I think we've already seen the best October Surprise they can muster this year. Gas prices have fallen by what, 25% in the last three weeks? That doesn't happen naturally, no matter what happens to the price of oil per barrell. The gas companies (I used to work for one of them) just don't allow prices to fall through the floor. They hold onto the excess profit and nudge the price little by little. I think (based mostly on talking out my ass) that gas prices have been artifically dropped to keep that from being such an issue. Early on, that's all people talked about, and Obama was way ahead on the issue.

Of course, I agree with Barack Obama that we need to stay vigilant until polls close on November 4th. This is by no means over, even with only 14 days to go. But the chances of McCain/Palin pulling this out are decreasing by the minute.

By the way, I got robocalled last night by the local Republican party. They invited me to a "Victory Rally" this Thursday. Sarah will be there and everything, and they're promoting ticket sales in five counties. It'll being held in nearby Troy, Ohio's Hobart Arena.

Maximum Capacity: 3,782. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_Arena)

[Matt Algren]

By the way, these are the people who worry me.

-4wQfQtpDAc

Not because of the election, but because Jimmy Dobson and the Religious Right have gotten their audience to get this much into lockstep. Don't think about, don't discuss with people who disagree, just repeat catch phrases and shut down. I guarantee that nobody's even challenged this woman on her position before.

[keltic63]

By the way, these are the people who worry me.



Not because of the election, but because Jimmy Dobson and the Religious Right have gotten their audience to get this much into lockstep. Don't think about, don't discuss with people who disagree, just repeat catch phrases and shut down. I guarantee that nobody's even challenged this woman on her position before.

How dare she declare an entire denomination to be "not the christianity that's in the Bible." Who is she to make that judment? and how can she decide which candidate has the most faith in the Lord?

and look at the facial tics on this woman. she's not only got a major attitude problem, I'd go so far as to say she's got something more going on concerning her mental health.

[Matt Algren]

How dare she declare an entire denomination to be "not the christianity that's in the Bible." Who is she to make that judment? and how can she decide which candidate has the most faith in the Lord?

and look at the facial tics on this woman. she's not only got a major attitude problem, I'd go so far as to say she's got something more going on concerning her mental health.
His Mama was a athiest! His Daddy was a Muslim! QED!


(BTW, you're the second person I've seen mention her facial tics.)

[tdogg]

some smirks. The smirks I hate most of all. Is this woman possibly brainwashed? Maybe. Definitely not educated. Seriously, to mention she dislikes Obama because of his name and the fact his mother was an athiest. She she possibly believe herself? :confused: This is some weird stuff.

[Jennifer5]

I only red the first post and the beginning of the one that followed, I wanted to read the entire thing but I found myself wanting to cry over just the beginning. I can't even deal with this kind of upsetting stuff. :disagree:

I might try it again later.

[ladyinred]

I am honestly surprised there has not been a race riot, with all the hecklers in the McCain crowds fired up calling Obama a terorist and saying,"Kill him!!!" Not that that's new news, Even on Fox one of the pundits jokingly said something about Obama being assasinated. This has gone way tooo oo far and to even think that these are the type of people who endorse McCain should scare us. McCain doesn't seem to think it's out of line though.

McCain and Palin have both gone off the deep end.

[Zerbie]

An addendum to Lady's post:

I received a newsletter from PFAW which included a link to copies of some of the hate mail that PFAW has received, and which, I believe if I'm not mistaken, the Obama campaign or democratic headquarters (not sure which) received. I only read two of the letters. They were both terrifyingly racist. One of them actually read that all N*****S need to be hung from trees.

When I read that I almost died. How can anyone seriously write that letter and send it? That this kind of sentiment even exists at all is terrifying. We need to be speaking out strongly for real values, especially when minds like this are making their presence known.

[Matt Algren]

I truly believe that the vast majority of McCain supporters aren't racist. It's a fringe element that's getting a lot of play in the press because it gets more revenue.

That said, this is horrible:

XbbcVNOMqSk

Contact information for Mike Lunsford:

1941 Fairfax Ave
Fairfield Township, OH 45015
513-889-1816

[tdogg]

Well, maybe it's a good thing the video is no longer working...

I'm amazed at the racism that is still prevalent in 2008. It's 2008 for gods sake. What's the matter with people???? We were really having a problem with it here in Sac the last few weeks. Some seriously evil things were being painted on Obama signs, cars and even houses. Even the local GOP website had racial crap on it. When will people grow up around here? McPalin should denounce all of that vocally and loudly. They don't, which gives the impression that most if not all Republicans believe it.

[sauu4equality]

I truly believe that the vast majority of McCain supporters aren't racist. It's a fringe element that's getting a lot of play in the press because it gets more revenue.



I agree that most McCain supporters are not hateful. However, the Stanford study showed that overwhelmingly Republicans are not ready for a "Black president" as well as Dems and Independents that will vote for McCain for the same reason. Unfortunately, I think many are afraid that helping others will hurt them. This is still racism, although not necessarily hatred. And the vast majority of those who will vote for McCain are racist. I must reiterate that point. Yes they are human. No we should not hate them. But they are most definitely prejudice and racist even if this is on an unconscious level.

The best example I can give you is someone who believes in an entirely free market economy (one that Republicans say they want to adhere to, but haven't in the last 8 years). This is someone who believes that absolute capitalism is the best economic way to go. I won't go into how ignorant a person is who thinks that McCain represents a pure form of capitalism, but in this example they are only interested in the economic policies of the candidates. What does it mean that African Americans trail the white majority by so much? We live in a free market economy (supposedly). Shouldn't every person have an equal oppurtunity to succeed??? This is the underlying belief of basic capitalism and the reason many will vote for McCain. The fact that African Americans trail the white majority so much is not seen as a disparity in equality by those believing in a free market. So, what's the alternative? "Black people are just lazy." You see how the belief in free market capitalism perpetuates this stereotype??? This is racism, prejudice, ignorance, whatever you want to call it. The ignorance excuse no longer works. We can conclude from this example that most Republicans are racist since most would say that conservative economics are their reason for voting the way they will (this was repeated many times by Huckabee, Palin at rallies and the RNC to roars of agreement by large crowds). They are not necessarily hateful though and we should not hate them. My biggest struggle is understanding their prejudice and racist feelings and not being disgusted by them. My parents truly believe that giving all Americans a chance to live the American dream will hurt their own financial situation. Even they would be unaffected by Obama's tax proposal...In other words, Joe the Plumber can talk all he wants, but he's a racist fool. First of all, small businesses making over 250,000 would not be taxed more unless the entire profit of the business went to one household. So, get some employees you greedy, racist moron!

[Jennifer5]

I just hope that it is all over by the 5th and no one ends up getting hurt... violence is NEVER the way to go, and we're seeing a lot of that right now.

I'm glad I don't have to see first hand what you're all explaining, with the yard signs in all... Seattle area if definately voting Obama. Then again, I'm not sure if this group would get violent one way or the other.

Violence... :disagree:

[tymejumper]

but I'm not about to let you have a same-sex marriage. (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4531945.shtml)

and she's willing to write it into the constitution, something which McCain was not willing to do.


I won't judge that bimbo either, but I think people like her should stop breeding. Her and 'first dude'. I'm willing to vote on an amendment for the constitution...... anyone 2nd that motion?:lol:

[Daniel]

I can just feel the Christian love oozing out of Palin. Reminds me of my fundi days. It's always done with an earnest nod of the head and a sincere smile.

Such a nice lady!

You know, Hitler was a nice man too. He petted dogs, shook people's hands and had a girlfriend who he made love to.

He also gassed millions. And he thought that was a good decision.

What makes Palin's stance any better? Nothing really. It was the same in the 1930's. It started with the taking away of rights.. A little here. A little there. And then the pogrom started.

It all starts with a well-meaning, but ultimately hate-filled, fear-based action. One that is disguised in moral rectitude. Fundi's always, but always, believe they have the moral truth.

Fundi's wouldn't be happy with rewriting the constitution re gay marriage. They would go after all gay rights in one fell swoop. They would wipe out every protection that exists in every state. Noe only that, they would overturn the Supreme Courts rulling re sodomy law. Scary stuff. Back to the days when you can be arrested for making love with your lover in your own bedroom.

Why? Because- according to them- that's what God wants.

[inca nitta]

I agree that most McCain supporters are not hateful. However, the Stanford study showed that overwhelmingly Republicans are not ready for a "Black president" as well as Dems and Independents that will vote for McCain for the same reason. Unfortunately, I think many are afraid that helping others will hurt them. This is still racism, although not necessarily hatred. And the vast majority of those who will vote for McCain are racist. I must reiterate that point. Yes they are human. No we should not hate them. But they are most definitely prejudice and racist even if this is on an unconscious level.

The best example I can give you is someone who believes in an entirely free market economy (one that Republicans say they want to adhere to, but haven't in the last 8 years). This is someone who believes that absolute capitalism is the best economic way to go. I won't go into how ignorant a person is who thinks that McCain represents a pure form of capitalism, but in this example they are only interested in the economic policies of the candidates. What does it mean that African Americans trail the white majority by so much? We live in a free market economy (supposedly). Shouldn't every person have an equal oppurtunity to succeed??? This is the underlying belief of basic capitalism and the reason many will vote for McCain. The fact that African Americans trail the white majority so much is not seen as a disparity in equality by those believing in a free market. So, what's the alternative? "Black people are just lazy." You see how the belief in free market capitalism perpetuates this stereotype??? This is racism, prejudice, ignorance, whatever you want to call it. The ignorance excuse no longer works. We can conclude from this example that most Republicans are racist since most would say that conservative economics are their reason for voting the way they will (this was repeated many times by Huckabee, Palin at rallies and the RNC to roars of agreement by large crowds). They are not necessarily hateful though and we should not hate them. My biggest struggle is understanding their prejudice and racist feelings and not being disgusted by them. My parents truly believe that giving all Americans a chance to live the American dream will hurt their own financial situation. Even they would be unaffected by Obama's tax proposal...In other words, Joe the Plumber can talk all he wants, but he's a racist fool. First of all, small businesses making over 250,000 would not be taxed more unless the entire profit of the business went to one household. So, get some employees you greedy, racist moron!

I'm sorry, but this kind of argument suggesting that anybody who wants to make as much money as he/she can by working hard ergo retain as much money he/she earned without giving it away is automatically becoming a racist, does not make sense to me, at all.

Also Daniel:

Are you by any chance suggesting that Sarah Palin has a hidden agenda of physical extermination of homosexual population, like the Nazis did?

I'm sorry but I could never ever imagine something like that ever happening in the USA, especially knowing that we have openly lesbian and gay people in our government, in our Congress and the legislatures of our states, including those where fundamentalism is prevalent.

A couple of months ago, the city of Portland, OR, elected an openly gay mayor named Sam Adams (I even heard that he's the descendant of Samuel Adams, one of our Founding Fathers, aint that something?), besides having already a judge in Oregon State Supreme Court who is a lesbian.

Even McCain has admitted that he has people on his staff who are gays.

[wmanion]

Are you by any chance suggesting that Sarah Palin has a hidden agenda of physical extermination of homosexual population, like the Nazis did?.

No they would not exterminate us in the same way as Hitler but it has been said in the churches that if a biological factor is found for causing one to be gay then we need need to find a cure. They would label us a mentally ill or diseased and try to find a medical cure to wipe out homosexuality. And yes, this has been suggested, so it is not far-fetched to say they would rid the population of homosexuality, then they can claim as Iran does that there is no such thing as homosexuality in the USA.

Bill

[zephyr013]

This is still racism, although not necessarily hatred.
...

We can conclude from this example that most Republicans are racist since most would say that conservative economics are their reason for voting the way they will (this was repeated many times by Huckabee, Palin at rallies and the RNC to roars of agreement by large crowds). They are not necessarily hateful though and we should not hate them. My biggest struggle is understanding their prejudice and racist feelings and not being disgusted by them...

There is a difference between prejudice/bigotry and racism. The former are beliefs held within someone's mind, and the latter refers to actions performed as a result of the former.

Otherwise you're absolutely right. We must love them. They are only misinformed, suffering from generations of untruth.

I can just feel the Christian love oozing out of Palin. Reminds me of my fundi days. It's always done with an earnest nod of the head and a sincere smile.

Such a nice lady!

You know, Hitler was a nice man too. He petted dogs, shook people's hands and had a girlfriend who he made love to.

He also gassed millions. And he thought that was a good decision.

What makes Palin's stance any better? Nothing really. It was the same in the 1930's. It started with the taking away of rights.. A little here. A little there. And then the pogrom started.

It all starts with a well-meaning, but ultimately hate-filled, fear-based action. One that is disguised in moral rectitude. Fundi's always, but always, believe they have the moral truth.

Fundi's wouldn't be happy with rewriting the constitution re gay marriage. They would go after all gay rights in one fell swoop. They would wipe out every protection that exists in every state. Noe only that, they would overturn the Supreme Courts rulling re sodomy law. Scary stuff. Back to the days when you can be arrested for making love with your lover in your own bedroom.

Why? Because- according to them- that's what God wants.

Sarah Palin is a politician through and through. All she cares about is winning, and I doubt that the poor thing has a very complicated agenda, if any agenda at all. End of story.

And though I appreciate a good melodrama as much as the next man, there is a HUGE difference between saying that you support a constitutional ban and systematically exterminating a large demographic.

No they would not exterminate us in the same way as Hitler but it has been said in the churches that if a biological factor is found for causing one to be gay then we need need to find a cure. They would label us a mentally ill or diseased and try to find a medical cure to wipe out homosexuality. And yes, this has been suggested, so it is not far-fetched to say they would rid the population of homosexuality, then they can claim as Iran does that there is no such thing as homosexuality in the USA.

Bill

Why can't we say with pride and love and freedom that we choose this and that it is our God given right to choose whatever makes us happy?

[Alecto]

If her agenda is to remain a politician, that's still dangerous. It doesn't matter whether her beliefs are internalized or just a way to get elected: if she enacts policy to pander to a religious base, that's dangerous.

As for choice, I half-agree with you. Firstly, I'm severely upset that my experience is up for debate. If I say something isn't a choice for me, I don't understand why people who have NEVER been in my situation and probably never will feel the right to question and debate and have an opinion on that. It's my brain and I'm telling you how it works and that's kind of all you've got to go on. Secondly, I'm not threatened that some peope might choose a same-sex relationship over a hetero-relationship. That said, that is NOT my experience, and it shouldn't be projected onto me. There's a huge problem on both sides of the debate where people assume there's One Gay Experience. Along these lines, there's also a problem where both sides have created a false dichotomy: it's either a Choice, or it's Genetic (inborn). This completely excludes environment, as well as more complicated theories (which are likely more accurate) that would allow for multiple factors. Also, no one addresses the concept that just because something is environmental doesn't mean it's necessarily changeable (you can't untoast bread). Ultimately, it's all a giant red herring because like you said, if it were a choice, it's one we should be allowed to make.

[inca nitta]

No they would not exterminate us in the same way as Hitler but it has been said in the churches that if a biological factor is found for causing one to be gay then we need need to find a cure. They would label us a mentally ill or diseased and try to find a medical cure to wipe out homosexuality. And yes, this has been suggested, so it is not far-fetched to say they would rid the population of homosexuality, then they can claim as Iran does that there is no such thing as homosexuality in the USA.

Bill

Even so, Bill, I still don't see it coming this way. If you see my previous post, I pointed out that there are gay and lesbian people in our government, thus I think that their influence could prevent this from ever happening.

I'm pretty sure, something like that would not happen in states of California and Oregon.

Inca.

[Emproph]

Even so, Bill, I still don't see it coming this way. If you see my previous post, I pointed out that there are gay and lesbian people in our government, thus I think that their influence could prevent this from ever happening.

I'm pretty sure, something like that would not happen in states of California and Oregon.

Inca.

A simple Google search (http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=lawrence+vs+texas+%22focus+on+the+family%22) turned up this from GLAAD:

Lawrence v. Texas Decision: Anti-Gay Industry Responses (http://www.glaad.org/publications/archive_detail.php?id=3428&PHPSESSID=f)

June 26, 2003

Concerned Women for America - June 26, 2003
"Supreme Court Wrong to Declare a Right to Sexual Perversion (http://www.glaad.org/publications/resource_doc_detail.php?id=3433&PHPSESSID=f)"

Focus on the Family - June 26, 2003
"Supreme Court Strikes Down Texas Sodomy Law (http://www.glaad.org/publications/resource_doc_detail.php?id=3431&PHPSESSID=f)"

Family Research Council - June 26, 2003
"FRC Says Supreme Court Ruling Will Embolden Same-Sex Marriage Advocates" (http://www.glaad.org/publications/resource_doc_detail.php?id=3429&PHPSESSID=f)

American Family Association - June 26, 2003
"Supreme Court Reaches out and Strikes Texas Sodomy Law" (http://www.glaad.org/publications/resource_doc_detail.php?id=3430&PHPSESSID=f)

World Net Daily - June 26, 2003
"Court strikes down Texas sodomy law; Defenders argued decision could create right to 'gay' sex, undermining marriage" (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33277) - by Art Moore

Traditional Values Coalition - June 26, 2003
"Supreme Court Texas Sodomy Decision...Is A Defeat For Public Morality And America's Families" (http://www.glaad.org/publications/resource_doc_detail.php?id=3427&PHPSESSID=f)

It's quite simple. Gay and lesbian people in prison, are no longer gay and lesbian people in the government.

[BruceChris]

Go back to Alaska, and be a female P.T.Barnum.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[sauu4equality]

Thanks BC for bringing back this thread. Didn't see how much ignorance got spewed against my argument. Just to reiterate institutionalized racism is still racism. Ignorance is not an excuse. Republicans who argue that they "don't want to be punished for success" are quite aware that institutionalized racism and inequality are widespread in America. Their unwillingness to help their neighbor is not only racist; it's un-American. Not to mention that they are complete idiots because they are hurt just as much by the Republicans continuing to give huge tax cuts to businesses like Exxon (who in our economic crisis just set a record for profit). Thank God Obama and others were there to let these unfair and ridiculous tax cuts to big business expire. And nothing about the Bush-built government is conservative. So, racism and bigotry were used by Republicans to get votes and create policies that even hurt the bigots and racists. Ironic...the whole I don't want to be taxed more argument no longer works. We know now that this was racist because the middle class paid lower taxes under Clinton and racist Republicans still voted for Bush knowing their taxes would continue to be higher than under a Democrat. So, if you are going to tell me that these white middle and lower class Republicans are just complete idiots than your argument may hold water. The only other option is they are racist. I think it's a little of both.