Prop 8 NYC PEACEFUL PROTEST 11/12/08

[Daniel]

There is going to be a peaceful protest here in NYC at the Mormon Temple at Lincoln Center on Wednesday, November 12th at 6:30 PM. I'm going to be there. PLease come join me if you can!

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/prop-8-protes-1.html


Peaceful demonstration Wednesday night, November 12, 6:30 pm, New York Manhattan Mormon Temple, 125 Columbus Ave at 65th Street, New York, NY:

"Tens of thousands of our brothers and sisters are in the streets in California and Salt Lake City and around the country protesting the votes banning same-sex marriage in California. Join them! Make your voices heard right here in New York City. We will tell the Mormon Church how we feel about its relentless campaign to condemn and control our lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was, by far, the biggest financer of California's heinous and hateful Proposition 8. The Mormon Church begged their members to donate money to Prop 8, pouring 20 million dollars into the campaign. And their attacks on us didn't start there and aren't about to end. They're plotting right now to bring their money and influence to bear against the LGBT community everywhere in this country, including trying to prevent marriage equality in New York."

[Daniel]

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=57450719688

This action is right in my backyard, so there are no excuses! ;) Now I have to get busy and make a sign.

[Daniel]

That the money poured by the Mormon Church into Prop 8 may be against the law?


"Section 501(c)(3) describes corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literacy, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in section (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distribution of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/strip-the-mormo.html

[nmwolfboy]

Friday i heard a press representative of the LDS in Los Angeles making the very clear statement that the church itself did not donate money - it was their members who individually chose to support Yes on 8. Of course, it's a dodge, but one that might work.

As i understand it, when Senator Lyndon B. Johnson introduced adding tax exemption for churches to the tax code in 1954, his intention was to keep them out of influencing public policy. Apparently there's no definitive evidence supporting that was his agenda, but that's the common wisdom as to why he pushed it through without hearings, testimony or comment by any tax-exempt organizations.

i've read that there is a pushback growing by some church leaders against the political intervention ban tied to tax exemption. But according to the Pew Forum (http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=285): To date, courts have been unsympathetic to First Amendment challenges to the political campaign intervention prohibition. Most recently, the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit upheld the constitutionality of the political campaign intervention prohibition as applied to a church, concluding that the prohibition did not violate either the Establishment Clause or the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. {Branch Ministries v. Rossotti [hereinafter “Branch Ministries”], 211 F.3d 137 (D.C. Cir. 2000).}

Even if the LDS as an organization didn't allocate monies to Yes on 8, they're still on shaky ground, as the IRS code makes clear:To qualify for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status under the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must meet the following requirements:

• The organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific or other charitable purposes;

• Net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder;

• No substantial part of the organization’s activities may involve attempts to influence legislation;

• The organization may not intervene in political campaigns; and

• The organization’s purposes or activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.

IRS Publication 1828, Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations 3 (Rev. September 2006) [hereinafter “Pub. 1828”].

Tax exemption of churches that intervene politically over legislation and court rulings that affect our civil rights should experience a pushback from us. Call your elected representatives and point out the potential tax code violations of these 'churches.' It's not abridging their freedom of religion, since tax exemption is a benefit that's not required to practice any religion.

Great news about the NYC protest, Daniel. Several folks here in NM are feverishly trying to pull one together in Albuquerque on 11/15. Into the streets!!!!!

Pax,
scott

[Zerbie]

I am so proud of New York!!!!! And you, Daniel. Thank you. :love:

Frankly, I am furious with the Mormon church right now. Caveat: I know a lot of Mormon individuals, and some of them are HEROS for equality and I will continue to lift them up and cheer them as heros. But the Mormon church? What the leadership has done is evil. Yes, it's also illegal. Incidentally, it even violates part of the Mormon Church articles of faith. Ironic in many ways.

I wish we were protesting at the temple here. It wouldn't be a friendly reception, but these protests NEED to happen.

Also - while we are calling out the Mormons for what they've done, we should also be decrying the Knights of Colombus. They gave upwards of 1M to the reverse equality in CA.

Why aren't we also protesting them?

[tymejumper]

Yeah, I work with a woman whos hubby was raised Mormon. She called is parents in Utah and told them he voted for Obama, and supported Gay rights and if he lived in CA, he would vote no on 8. To say the least, his parents and him got into a terrible fight. THey are the visiting the inlaws this year!

You can't tar them all with the same brush.

[tdogg]

Are the Knights of Columbus tax exempt? If so, we should be pushing for them to lose their tax exempt status. Also, all donors should be examined, I'm thinking that many evangelical churches also donated big money. What about Dobson? He gave over $500,000. The Prop 8 campaign scared people into believing churches would lose their tax exempt status if Prop 8 was defeated. Le'ts make them honest!


Zerbie, you can plan a protest at the Mormon church. Is there anything else going on the area that date? No reason why multiple actions can't be done, although I think volume is signficant.

[Zerbie]

Are the Knights of Columbus tax exempt? If so, we should be pushing for them to lose their tax exempt status. Also, all donors should be examined, I'm thinking that many evangelical churches also donated big money. What about Dobson? He gave over $500,000. The Prop 8 campaign scared people into believing churches would lose their tax exempt status if Prop 8 was defeated. Le'ts make them honest!


Zerbie, you can plan a protest at the Mormon church. Is there anything else going on the area that date? No reason why multiple actions can't be done, although I think volume is signficant.

I have to admit I have no idea what Knights of Colombus IS. :o I should find out.

Dobson's Focus would be legally able to donate to political campaigns if one branch of the organization is a (what exactly is the code? 501 c 4?) political action fund and the monies come from it. I'm sure they have one and were therefore within their legal rights.

[Jester25]

All donors should be examined, I'm thinking that many evangelical churches also donated big money. What about Dobson? He gave over $500,000. The Prop 8 campaign scared people into believing churches would lose their tax exempt status if Prop 8 was defeated. Let's make them honest!

Political campaigns? Honest? In what bizzaro universe?

And there seems to be a lot of dishonesty in churches and stuff lately, too. Isn't honesty a big part of most religions?

[Rick336]

Isn't honesty a big part of most religions?

Yes. It's one of the ten commandments. "Thou shall not bare false witness." But some Christians lie all the time especially if it's for political reasons.

Another commandment is, "Thou shall not commit adultery." But most Christians completely ignore that commandment. In fact, They commit adultery, divorce their spouse, and take their new partner to church. Nobody seems to mind.

I bet if you went to your local Baptist church and interviewed the members of the congregation, half of them have been divorced at least once. And according to Jesus, that's adultery. But I bet that same Baptist church won't even let you in the door if you're gay.


Rick

[nmwolfboy]

The Knights of Columbus' Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus). They are listed as a tax exempt organization.

[Californian Who Voted NO]

This is my first post, so please excuse me if I'm not configured properly.

Friday i heard a press representative of the LDS in Los Angeles making the very clear statement that the church itself did not donate money - it was their members who individually chose to support Yes on 8. Of course, it's a dodge, but one that might work.

Its not just a dodge, the LDS press representative quoted above is factually incorrect. Yes, the bulk of Mormon donations came from individual Mormon donors, but the LDS Church itself made 2 separate donations, on 2 separate dates.

From the CA Secretary of State Website of Yeson8 donors:

CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SALT LAKE CITY UT / 84150
Amount - $2,078.97
Date - 10/27/2008

CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SALT LAKE CITY UT / 84150
Amount - $2,864.21
Date - 11/2/2008

Also, there's this AP item on the first contribution:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4648552

"Records: Mormon church contributed to proposition
October 28th, 2008 @ 7:36pm

By JENNIFER DOBNER, Associated Press Writer
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Campaign finance records show the Utah-based Mormon church has made its first financial contribution in support of a Nov. 4 ballot proposition that would ban same-sex marriage in California.

The in-kind donation of $2,078.97 from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was made on Oct. 25 to ProtectMarriage.com, a coalition of faith organizations and conservative groups supporting Proposition 8.

<snip>

Jeff Flint, a co-manager of the ProtectMarriage campaign, says the Mormon church made the in-kind donation to cover the travel expenses of several Utah-based church leaders who went to California for a meeting last week.

Flint wouldn't say which church leaders were at the meeting.

Church spokeswoman Kim Farah confirmed the expenditure Tuesday..."


In Closing, here's a Sign Idea for Wednesday's Protest:
(spotted at the Salt Lake Protest from last week)

KEEP YOUR
DOCTRINE
OFF MY
COVENANTS!

Looking forward to seeing the coverage.

[Californian Who Voted NO]

Ooops. I guess I should provide a citation for the 2 donations.

http://cal-access.sos.ca.gov/Campaign/Committees/Detail.aspx?
id=1302592&view=late1

If you use your browser's Edit>Find feature, and type in
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints"
you'll find the contributions.

[Daniel]

I was out this morning and saw a police truck unloading barriers for the protest tonight at 6:30 acrosss form Lincoln Center here in Manhattan. The plan, so I read on towleroad (see link) is to bring candles and signs to the site, and then, as people congregate (love that word!), to march down to Columbus Circle- which is where CNN is located in the Time Warner building.

Sounds like a plan! And I'll take my camera and post photos when I get back!

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/tonight-we-will.html

[Rick336]

Daniel,

That sounds great. I wish I was going to be there. Looking forward to your photos.

Out of the closet and into the streets!!!


Rick

[Matt Algren]

I have less than high hopes for the protest that is supposedly being set up here.

[Zerbie]

I have less than high hopes for the protest that is supposedly being set up here.

Care to elaborate? What's your concern?
Are you concerned that it will look like the gay community is antagonizing the churches, or just what?

[tdogg]

Hi Daniel! Thinking of you and wishing I was there (actually that we were all there!). :love::D Enjoy and please do report back. Can't wait to hear about it all!

Hi there Voted No! Whereabouts in CA are you from? I'm here in Sacramento. Cool to 'see' you here!!

Matt, are you thinking that it might not be well attended? I was having that worry about our action here in Sac on Saturday, because it's just not being well advertised. One needs to really research the net to find it. But I have hopes through word of mouth that a great number will hear and show up.

[Gennee]

Hi, Daniel. I can't be at the protest but I will be there in spirit.

Gennee



:love::dove:

[Daniel]

Well....it was some night. Invigorating to say the least! Went and protested at the Mormon Temple, which is right across from Lincoln Center, with about 10 thousand people. Very peaceful. Andrew Sullivan captured the event nicely.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/the-awakening-g.html

The chants were spontaneous and very affirmative as we marched from the Temple to Columbus Circle- where CNN is located- about 8 blocks.

Snapped some pics of the event. Hope you can get a sense of the crowd: it was big!

Saw Dan Savage in the crowd, and then saw him on TV with Anderson Cooper with Anthony Perkins (Amercian Family Association) later. Mr. Savage more than held his own.

Next up? There is a big rally/protest here at City Hall on the 15th. Not sure if I can make that, but is so, I'll let you know.

I like what Sullivan said: we are waking up! And it's about time.

[Daniel]

There we so many great signs....and this one says it all.

[Rick336]

Well....it was some night. Invigorating to say the least! Went and protested at the Mormon Temple, which is right across from Lincoln Center, with about 10 thousand people. Very peaceful. Andrew Sullivan captured the event nicely.

Daniel,

The photos are awesome! Thank you for sharing them! Do you mind if I save them to my picture file?

It looks like a great crowd. The Advocate also posted some photos of the NYC march on their news site this evening.

Rick

[Matt Algren]

Care to elaborate? What's your concern?
Are you concerned that it will look like the gay community is antagonizing the churches, or just what?
No no, nothing like that. Frankly, that would be a good thing. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of noise about it here from what I've seen online. Kind of like they're doing a protest because you have to do a protest.

[Zerbie]

Pics are beautiful! What a great crowd!

I'm so glad this happened. These protests need to be happening. We need to be marching all over the country, and finally, it's starting.

Btw, I was so jazzed to get the newsletter from Jeff Lutes and SF saying take it to the streets. He's totally right.

I'm told by those who were there that this was how the civil rights movement looked when it started. A few small groups on street corners here or there, then some larger ones, then it spread and spread. Keep it up, y'all!

[Daniel]

One utube video really give one a sense of what being there was like.

iH4kc7LXoTA


Lots more here...

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/we-did-it.html

[Rick336]

Daniel,

That was an incredible video. There were some great slogans on some of those signs too. I wish I had seen this before I made my sign for the rally in Greensboro on Saturday.

Thanks for the video.

Rick

[Matt Algren]

Surely we can do better on the chants, though. All this gay creativity and the best they can come up with is "Tax this church"?!?


;)

[tdogg]

Great video. Great ideas for signs. Daniel, it must have been quite exciting to be there in person! I'm feeing better about Saturday. I had some reservations (like Matt, I don't feel the word is getting out), but maybe it is the beginning. The movement will grow over time. It's a very hopeful feeling.

[Alecto]

Anyone know what was up with the guy with a blue armband in the video? Just curious.

[Daniel]

Surely we can do better on the chants, though. All this gay creativity and the best they can come up with is "Tax this church"?!?


;)

Gay, Straight, Black, White: Marriage is a Civil Right!

..stood out to these ears.

It was interesting how the chanting happened spontaneously all along the march. Many happening all at the same time. Very energized! The crowd wasn't angry, as much as they were focused with a purpose. And that is a very good thing I believe. Bodes well for gay activism.

[Daniel]

Anyone know what was up with the guy with a blue armband in the video? Just curious.

The armbands were designed by the same man who designed the rainbow flag. Towleroad has more detail about this.

[Jester25]

My moms just went to a candlelight vigil last night. Apparently they got a lot of support from passersby. :D

[Daniel]

Gearing up to start a swiftboat campaign against those who lost their civil rights.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/another-round-o.html

Get ready for the smear?

[Rick336]

Gearing up to start a swiftboat campaign against those who lost their civil rights.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/another-round-o.html

Get ready for the smear?

This is proof that the protests are working because our aggressors are very bothered by them. But that's the whole point. They need to be upset by the results of their actions. Of course they are portraying themselves as the victims but that's typical. In the African American civil rights movement in the sixties "Negroes" were portrayed as the villains.

The important thing is that we don't back down. We continue our non-violent protests no matter how much bad press we get from the religious fanatics. If some of our leaders get wimpy and tell us we need to back down, those leaders can step aside on the sidewalks and watch us march by on the street.

My guess is that the movie "Milk" is going to inspire many more to come out of the closet and into the street and the protests may actually intensify. We might see 2009 get a lot louder.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3039/3077941236_d671dc0402.jpg?v=0
November 2008


Photo from the movie Milk ---> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2395/2244832873_03fdd6c532.jpg?v=0


Rick

[Zerbie]

Yes and, we might as well all recognize that there is nothing new about portraying the victimized minority group as the aggressor. That's been happening throughout our history, and as Rick mentions, to various minority groups throughout American history. (Heck, and to Jews in Europe, etc)

The sad thing is how easy it is to blame the victim and simply layer more complexities onto the situation. Ours is, sadly, the more difficult job of making clear what is really going on. Then when we DO call out the leaders who have been creating the distortions (and even outright lies,) we look like bad guys lobbing 'accusations.' It's not going to be pretty, but it does have to be truthful, accurate, and absolutely done in a spirit of peace.
How come we always get the tough job?