The Protest(s), 11/15

[BruceChris]

Well, I guess I'm the first here. At the appointed time, about 2000 protesters gathered at the Government Center. Outfront Minnesota had put this together in about 5 days, and they had Parade Marshals, a sound system, and about 6 or 8 gay elected officials and community leaders. Many people brought signs, and they were making more on the spot. There were members of the state legislature, the city council, Outfront of course, and Rebecca from the NGLTF.

The speakers told us that even if we lost, we were winning, because our numbers have been continually increasing. We would go on to win. Jacob Reitan was there, and he spoke.

Then we marched to Loring park, which is sort of gay central, in Minneapolis. Pride is held there, each year, and it has been known as a cruising place, now and then.

I am a little surprised to be the first to post, and I will expect many more to follow. --- LINK:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[CaptainSnoopy]

Got pics? :)

[kara speltz]

This morning, people rallied in opposition to Prop 8 all over this country. Here in Oakland, we had hundreds. I imagine San Francisco had, thousands and thousands. I spoke at the rally, and got a very positive response to my 2 min speech, so I'm sharing below.

Good morning, Oakland! As a staffmember of Soulforce, I often travel to other cities, so to be here in my home town is a real treat. These last ten days have been such an emotional roller coaster. Tears of joy! Tears of grief. But ultimately, what we need to remember is that at long last, the polictics of fear lost. We are entering a new era, a time of HOPE.

When my 42 year old interracial son was born, it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry. When he was 2, the NY Times ran a survey. 72% of the readership was opposed to interracial marriage. Today we have an Afro-American president elect. Who would have believed that?

For too long we, transgender, lesbian, bisexual and gay people have sat back on our laurels, so to speak, especially in the Bay Area. We've taken our rights for granted. But today, is a new beginning; another Stonewall. We're fighting back, but this time our weapon must be LOVE. Gandhi and King showed us the way. The Mormons aren't our enemy, ignorance is our enemy. It's not by being in their faces, that we'll win this struggle, its by being in their HEARTS.

The "Yes on Prop 8" campaign used the tactic of fear in their support of Prop 8. Only love can overcome fear. The failure to communicate is on our part. Every time, we weren't out to family, to friends, to co-workers, we cast a vote for shame, a vote to end our Right to Marry.

We'll fight this in the courts and in the media. But we can't leave it for someone else to do. This has to be a tranformational moment for each of us. a personal commitment to overcoming our own fears, overcoming the shame and the ignorance with our love and our persistance. As Gandhi said, we must become the change we seek.

Share with your neighbors, your coworkers and your family exactly how devastating this loss of the right to marry has been for you. Help them understand, change hearts one at a time.

Nonviolence isn't for wimps. It's hard work and it takes courage. I ask each and every one of you to face that challenge. Choose love over anger, choose love over hate, choose love over devisivness. I ask you to make that commitment this morning, and every morning. We can & will win.

[BruceChris]

Patrick, see above.

It has been my experience that some Mormons, not all, like to create just enough dissonance so that they will receive a response that allows them to self-righteously claim that they are being unjustly Persecuted.

Honestly, that sort of thing, for some of them, gives their lives meaning.

I wish that this were not so, and I know damned well that I do not have any answers, so I am staying out of this one.


I hope protesters will distinguish between Mormon individuals and the LDS church leadership which engaged in hypocrisy and pressured members.

But even if we all do make that distinction, there will still be some who will choose to see this as gays attacking Mormons, no matter how clear we are. Civil rights battles are ugly by nature, and if we wish to avoid all the ugliness, we will have to sit silently on the sidelines and wait for some magical future day when inequity simply disappears on its own.

Now, we are not attacking Mormons or the church. We are pointing out, clarifying, and telling the world What The LDS Leadership Did. If the LDS wants to define stating facts as an 'attack,' then that says quite a lot more about them.

BC

[Zerbie]

Thousands marched in Phoenix! There were about 1000 marching in Tucson, so I hear.

In Phoenix, some organizers estimated our group at close to 4000. The Republic reported us at 2000. I'll copy the article here, but it hardly gives any idea of what took place.

We must have had nearly a dozen speakers, live music, and thousands of gays and allies with signs, rainbow flags, their children, and the family pet. I have NEVER seen a civil rights demonstration this large before. We listened to speakers for about 90 minutes, then marched to the state capitol and back, drumming and chanting all the way. It was incredible! We had a tremendously diverse group - all aspects of the lgbt community were represented, lots and lots of straight allies, all ages, a variety of religions and ethnicities, we were an energized crowd. We must have walked about 2 miles through the heat.

Our community in Phoenix is determined that the movement will continue.

This is only the beginning!

Coverage:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/11/15/20081115protests-ON.html

[Rick336]

We had a good turn-out in Greensboro, North Carolina today. One of the speakers said he counted around 250 people. The rain that was forecast held off but the wind played havoc with our protest signs. It was great to get to meet Christine and some other folks who I'd never met face to face.

It was a very successful protest.

Here are some photos:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/3032661797_9ef8f80ab6.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/3032680687_e86b3793cb.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/3032714743_81e724536e.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/3033602244_b7c176b800.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3245/3033526540_ab0b2d9606.jpg?v=0
This is me - Rick

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3167/3033550932_70c36be9b3.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/3033546498_bec96f6873.jpg?v=0
Christine


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3273/3032678107_e9722aa94e.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/3032746549_eebbe4cb16.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3228/3032694123_b2ca9d474e.jpg?v=0




Rick

[Matt Algren]

I envy you guys. We had snow all morning, then sleet around 1:00, which gave way to rain, then snow again, then rain again. Probably 50-100 people there, which is more than I figured it would be. Without being a complete Negative Nelly, I have a feeling that there was no coordination with the local gay community and gay churches and civic organizations.

They finally called it around 2:45 when it was clear that the rain wasn't going away and traffic had gotten pretty sparse. There's a bus stop right in front of the courthouse, and it was interesting to see the reactions of people waiting for the next bus.

I only got five pictures, and I knew none of these people, so no candids with friends. I didn't realize that they were all of people's backs until I loaded them up. Oh well.

http://blog.mattalgren.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/impact1.jpg

http://blog.mattalgren.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/impact2.jpg

http://blog.mattalgren.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/impact3.jpg

http://blog.mattalgren.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/impact4.jpg

http://blog.mattalgren.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/impact5.jpg

[Daniel]

And right on speech Kara!

I wasn't able to go to the action downtown at City Hall here in NYC, but heard on the news that at least 5 thousand people showed up for it. And we had at least 7 to 10 thousand the other night at the Mormon Temple.

CNN has had good coverage of the whole day. And if anyone saw Larry King last night, Dan Savage did a really good job representing us. Though it annoys me that the producers still insist on being 'fair' by putting bigots across the table. Would they put the KKK on TV with the blacks and debate their civil rights?

I don't think so!

[Zerbie]

Wow! All those people willing to stand there in sleet and rain! That's wonderful!

You guys, those photos are great! I'm so envious. We don't own any cameras (not even attached to our phones,) and I so wished I had one today. Our group extended for 5 or 6 city BLOCKS today!! There were so many great people, great, colorful signs, the Sisters were there looking incredible, straight allies brought babes in strollers, people brought their dogs -- it was amazing!

I hope we get some more media coverage of our event in Phoenix so you guys can see what it looked like.

Rick, you look terrific and so does your sign. Christine, you're beautiful! Great signs, great pictures everyone.

Let's keep the momentum going!! When is the next march??

[Daniel]

That is, that this is not about marriage, it's about civil rights. If anything, I think this is the message that needs to be emphasized.

[Rick336]

Thousands marched in Phoenix! There were about 1000 marching in Tucson, so I hear.

In Phoenix, some organizers estimated our group at close to 4000. The Republic reported us at 2000. I'll copy the article here, but it hardly gives any idea of what took place.


This is only the beginning!



Zerbie. That's awesome that so many turned out in Arizona. Christine and I were talking at the protest in Greensboro this afternoon, that we knew that you, and Bruce, and Matt and so many other Soulforce people were attending their own protests at that very moment. It was cool to think that we were all out together at the same time, but in different places.

Rick

[Zerbie]

Zerbie. That's awesome that so many turned out in Arizona. Christine and I were talking at the protest in Greensboro this afternoon, that we knew that you, and Bruce, and Matt and so many other Soulforce people were attending their own protests at that very moment. It was cool to think that we were all out together at the same time, but in different places.

Rick

Thanks! Yes, and Tdogg in CA, etc.

I am so proud of Phoenix!!! I have NEVER seen so many people at a gay rights demonstration before. So proud of Phoenix. :love::)

Excited and pleased to say this IS just the beginning. Phoenix has ongoing community organizing planning events scheduled beginning on Monday. We're in this for the long haul!

Keep it goin' around the nation, folks!
This is only the beginning.

[baumgrenze]

Dear Kara,

I'm glad you were there this morning. I'm glad that Nan and Mark and I were there, too, and that I'd gotten close enough to the circle to be able to sort-of see you and to hear your words. You said so many things that people needed to hear. It is honest stories, told with love, one-on-one that will win the day. It is important to remember, too, that sometimes it takes more repetitions than we think we have in us, all of them delivered lovingly, to make the decisive contact that changes another mind.

I had a little trouble seeing through and hearing above the crowd. I'm 68 and I sprained my ankle seriously 2 weeks ago. I was good. I brought along a folding camp-stool so I could rest it. I didn't want to miss the chance to be there with the other Californians in my family. I'll say a bit more about who I am in a new thread I am about to open in this forum.

Thanks to all of you at Soulforce for all the heavy lifting that you do.

God bless,

John

[nmwolfboy]

Today in Albuquerque:
http://www.nmwolfboy.com/pix_deposit/111508_Abq_rally.jpg

http://www.nmwolfboy.com/pix_deposit/111508_Abq_rally2.jpg

One of the local television stations reported the event turnout as "a few hundred". i think it was at least 500 people, though you can't tell from these pix. Civic plaza is laid out oddly, and it was impossible to get a full shot of the crowd with my cellphone. Once we started marching, the line spanned at least four blocks, and our blocks here are pretty long!

My favorite sign of the day: "When do I get to vote on YOUR marriage?"

My favorite repeated chant during the march: "What's so scary? We just want to marry!"

It was a great day. :D Passing motorists were largely supportive, the cops were great, and the number of families with baby strollers was boggling. Wes commented, "We're so mainstream! Thirty years ago I never imagined I'd see something like this." There were several clergy and many supportive people from local churches there to show their support. :rainbow: PFLAG got the loudest crowd reaction, as usual. :)

[tdogg]

Hi everyone!

Yesterday was awesome. Although we only had about 1500 here in Sacramento, it was still more than I expected because of the late start in getting the word out (and it was basically word of mouth). We had speakers, including our out-going mayor and the gay mayor of West Sac. Our straight supporters outnumber GLBT protesters. Signs everywhere, great signs. Children, dogs, rainbow flags! (Yes, my baby even brought hers!). And of course about 20 across the street holding up their signs for Prop 8. Oh yeah, the county clerk of Yolo County spoke, Freddie Oakley, she's kinda famous around here for her support of gays and lesbians.

After the program, we marched around city hall, police escorts everywhere maintaining traffic and giving us room to cross streets. We then marched to and around the capitol, culminating on the capitol steps. I took a few pictures and when I have time, will post the best ones. But they don't even begin to convey the numbers out there. It was a great feeling, to be out and proud and a part of a world wide group standing up for equal civil rights. During the speeches, it was mentioned that folks in Europe and Australia were joining in yesterday. To imagine we were all out simultaneously, well, that was just the best part for me. We were all one in mind, heart and spirit yesterday, sending up our positive thoughts and words, prayers and dreams of equality.

There is a state-wide march on the Capitol next Saturday, 11/22 at 2pm, pacific. I'll be there!! Thousands are expected. Anyone interested, again I offer a place to stay and transportation if needed.

[tdogg]

I forgot to say that Soulforce got a mention in our rally yesterday!

There was also another organization which I am going to check out: equalityactionnow.org.

[Zerbie]

Just heard from our extended family in Texas -- they attended the protest in Austin yesterday! I'm so excited and proud that the rest of our family is getting involved too! :D

Austin got great news coverage. Check it out:
http://www.myfoxaustin.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7873806&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Found more. Jeff Lutes is featured in this article here:
http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=224556

[ctozrn]

We had a great time yesterday. Our protest was small compared to a lot of the others but together we were MASSIVE!!!

It was so nice to meet Rick. It is always nice to meet people from the forums....it makes it more real!

I have some more pics from our day...it was awesome!

[MCstudent]

I don't have pictures up yet, but there's a news article and clip from a local station:

http://www.fox40now.com/news/local/34524524.html (http://www.fox40now.com/news/local/34524524.html)

My face isn't shown (I asked it not to be, my face has been in the media enough lately, lol), but my sign is- "WWJD? Straight Christian Ally. Don't confuse Bigotry with Truth."


The Equality Riders went to the protest in D.C., and many of them have pictures up on facebook, you should look them up and check it out :)

[Petrese]

I think the media here did a good job of covering the events in Oregon, that is, the stations that actually covered it, KGW primarily. I wish I could have been in Portland for the gathering there. Even CNN had good, unbiased, supportive coverage from what I saw.

I wish to say something on the subject of the Mormons because I go to work with Mormons every day and they have an agenda that's for sure. I don't believe it is just the LDS Leadership, that is supported by their members and since about 75% of my office is Mormon I get to hear their opinions daily. It is one of women in the home and under men, men are superior, period. Gays don't have any worth because they don't reproduce, are not even really considered human, I get to hear all the cute comments because I live under thew radar here and live in constant stress that someone is going to clock me and I will be out of a job.

They aren't just overall nice people. They aren't interested in a democratic process. Where the McCain supporters in the office are free to express their support, put up Republican posters, including all the 'NoBama' stickers everywhere and all the Mormon and Baptist brochures, etc., anything else, is not allowed, period. Don't kid yourselves; they and the evangelical right are the primary driving force behind the mis information and bigotry in this nation towards GLBT. They have the power to take away rights as with proposition 8 and will not stop there. But the worst thing in my opinion is that they give Christianity a really bad name in the face of all the young people and others who question faith and then see all this ridiculous nonsense and they say "see, it is craziness".

[pnggrad79]

I am so upset! I had planned to go to the protest in Houston. I even bought a shirt from JoinTheImpact.org and painted signs. But several things happened.

1. One of our four puppies died Friday morning of Parvo.
2. My oldest daughter moved out on Saturday.
3. By the time she got her stuff together, it was 2:00 p.m. The protest
started at 12:30.
4. I couldn't find the City Hall in Houston. I must have circled the block 3 or 4 times and found nothing. I know where the Theatre district is, but not the City Hall.

I heard it was a pitiful turnout. It makes me so upset. When is Texas going to become galvanized against this hyprocrisy and hatred? We have been 2nd class citizens for 2 years now, and it seems like a sort of complacency has settled on us and we are ok with being treated like outcasts.

I know I didn't go, but I tried. :rolleyes:

[Zerbie]

I wish to say something on the subject of the Mormons because I go to work with Mormons every day and they have an agenda that's for sure. I don't believe it is just the LDS Leadership, that is supported by their members and since about 75% of my office is Mormon I get to hear their opinions daily. It is one of women in the home and under men, men are superior, period. Gays don't have any worth because they don't reproduce, are not even really considered human,


They aren't just overall nice people. They aren't interested in a democratic process. Where the McCain supporters in the office are free to express their support, put up Republican posters, including all the 'NoBama' stickers everywhere and all the Mormon and Baptist brochures, etc., anything else, is not allowed, period. Don't kid yourselves; they and the evangelical right are the primary driving force behind the mis information and bigotry in this nation towards GLBT.

I have to comment because I work with Mormons every day, too. My perception is that being Mormon one is brought up with a certain mindset, almost a 'culture' in a way. But there is diversity, and dissent, even within active members of the Mormon church. Granted, I mostly see that from the over 35 population - it seems to me that the younger Mormon population has been raised to ask no questions, and that's a shame.

I've worked with Mormons who have repeated the 'homosexuality is a choice' line, and I've also stood side by side in the street with straight Mormons who marched for equal rights and carried signs and banners on behalf of their gay friends and neighbors.

However the majority may be, and whatever your office is like (and it sounds really hostile, yikes!), I have to make clear that all Mormon individuals are not out there advocating for discrimination. Even if many are, it is not all individuals.

The real problem stems from the leadership and what they are teaching to the young ones. They're doing their own youth a grave disservice by teaching them anti-gay bigotry, and when young Mormons get out into the larger world and repeat what they've been taught, they get a shock when they find out it isn't the only worldview.

[Zerbie]

I am so upset! I had planned to go to the protest in Houston. I even bought a shirt from JoinTheImpact.org and painted signs. But several things happened.

1. One of our four puppies died Friday morning of Parvo.
2. My oldest daughter moved out on Saturday.
3. By the time she got her stuff together, it was 2:00 p.m. The protest
started at 12:30.
4. I couldn't find the City Hall in Houston. I must have circled the block 3 or 4 times and found nothing. I know where the Theatre district is, but not the City Hall.

I heard it was a pitiful turnout. It makes me so upset. When is Texas going to become galvanized against this hyprocrisy and hatred? We have been 2nd class citizens for 2 years now, and it seems like a sort of complacency has settled on us and we are ok with being treated like outcasts.

I know I didn't go, but I tried. :rolleyes:

Geez, PNG, what a disappointment!! Maybe it wasn't meant to be for some reason. :confused:

I thought the City Hall location was a poor choice for a rally in Houston -- I remember when I lived there I always had trouble finding places downtown. Plus on a Saturday, who the heck is going to be in downtown Houston? The protest should have been on one of the campuses, or in Montrose, or the Heights - someplace that gets traffic on weekends.

Were there any local organizers working on the protest? Maybe there weren't and should have been.

Too bad Houston didn't mount more of an effort. Fwiw, several cities in Texas held protests, and the one in Austin had about a thousand people there! Even Corpus Christi had a small demonstration. :)

[Zerbie]

Found some photos of the march in Phoenix.

http://www.azcentral.com/commphotos/azcentral/8827/1/12

Better ones (and more of them!) hereL

http://ntouchaz.com/_gallery/gallery.php

[ctozrn]

Wow! All those people willing to stand there in sleet and rain! That's wonderful!

You guys, those photos are great! I'm so envious. We don't own any cameras (not even attached to our phones,) and I so wished I had one today. Our group extended for 5 or 6 city BLOCKS today!! There were so many great people, great, colorful signs, the Sisters were there looking incredible, straight allies brought babes in strollers, people brought their dogs -- it was amazing!

I hope we get some more media coverage of our event in Phoenix so you guys can see what it looked like.

Rick, you look terrific and so does your sign. Christine, you're beautiful! Great signs, great pictures everyone.

Let's keep the momentum going!! When is the next march??

Zerbie, thank you!! You are too sweet for saying that!! We had a great time and it sounds like you did too. It is funny to think about us all doing the same thing on the same day. The world doesn't seem so big in that sense!

[Rick336]

Found some photos of the march in Phoenix.

http://www.azcentral.com/commphotos/azcentral/8827/1/12

Better ones (and more of them!) hereL

http://ntouchaz.com/_gallery/gallery.php


Thanks for the photo links Zerbie. Great shots of the Phoenix crowd. I looked for my ex-partner in the photos but didn't see him. I'll call him later to see if he attended.

Rick

[sjbouza]

Hey to all out in CA and around the country. You are all in my prayers and God is listening! I think that the proponents of Prop 8 have started something that they are going to regret in the future. I feel like this fight in CA is going to be the spring board for the rest of the nation, especially if the CA Supreme Court doesn't want to deal with the issue.

I will leave you with one thought...

I saw something that made me laugh then think today. Just remember...

Jesus had two dads.

Peace and love,
Scott

[tdogg]

Scott,

"Jesus had two dads" - that is terrific and not something I had thought of before! Thanks for the thoughts. One of the things mentioned in a speech from the Sacrament action - the Prop 8 proponents woke a sleeping giant, whose main focus will now be resolve. Which is scarier to them than fear or anger. It was a cool moment hearing that! :D

[Matt Algren]

I saw the Jesus had two dads thing on somebody's picture from Georgia. Pretty awesome.

[tdogg]

Hope they get attached!

[tdogg]

Pics from Sacramento

The last two are the front & back of my sign

[tdogg]

The first set of pictures are actually where we ended up at the state Capitol. The last set are taken at the first part, rally @ City Hall. The police horses in the first set were stationed along the way and at the capitol, and they spent the entire time bickering. Maybe they were arguing about Prop 8!

The girl in the red shirt is my wife, I'm in the blue. Hope you enjoy!

[Zerbie]

I saw the Jesus had two dads thing on somebody's picture from Georgia. Pretty awesome.

It took me two days to figure out what that refers to.

No, I'm not too hip on Biblical scholarship. But I'm guessing, Joseph, and God??

[Zerbie]

Yayyyy, Tdogg, the signs (and you two ladies,) look beautiful!

The rainbow borders look fantastic! Did you just color them with markers?? Some kind of paints? I ask because I'm thinking of doing my next sign with black marker OVER a rainbow background, if I can figure out how to color the background and still have the words legible.

I've continued brainstorming sign ideas assuming there will be more protests. DH has already chosen his sign motto for the NEXT march, and we've mentally already shopped for updated materials to make 'em even better.

Still, I'm disappointed that none of the Phoenix photos show us. We spent an hour coloring a new sign for yesterday's protest, and both of our signs looked really fantastic. A TV camera zoomed in on us for a long while yesterday, so we posed the signs for them and I was hoping they'd turn up somewhere in the pics. Maybe they still will, somewhere. . . .

[tdogg]

We used Elmer's brand foam boards (2-pack, and they aren't glossy so you can paint and mark them). Then we used Tempura poster paints for the colors, and I used permanent black & blue markers for the words (just made them really thick letters). My wife used some pre-printed sticky numbers/letters for her sign "Full Equality 4 All".

I think you could paint a rainbow and let it dry, and then mark the letters in black permanent ink. Try it. We were going to paste poster board onto the foam boards thinking they were the glossy covered foam boards. But were thrilled to notice the Elmer's brand were actually poster board paper with foam backing in between. You can do both sides, but we cut the board in half and then glued our sticks in between the two halves, with each half being a sign.

Does that make sense?

[Rick336]

The girl in the red shirt is my wife, I'm in the blue. Hope you enjoy! Great photos Tdogg. :)

The police horses in the first set were stationed along the way and at the capitol, and they spent the entire time bickering.

The horses were bickering?

Rick

[Zerbie]

We used Elmer's brand foam boards (2-pack, and they aren't glossy so you can paint and mark them). Then we used Tempura poster paints for the colors, and I used permanent black & blue markers for the words (just made them really thick letters). My wife used some pre-printed sticky numbers/letters for her sign "Full Equality 4 All".

I think you could paint a rainbow and let it dry, and then mark the letters in black permanent ink. Try it. We were going to paste poster board onto the foam boards thinking they were the glossy covered foam boards. But were thrilled to notice the Elmer's brand were actually poster board paper with foam backing in between. You can do both sides, but we cut the board in half and then glued our sticks in between the two halves, with each half being a sign.

Does that make sense?
:lol:
I'll figure it out. Sounds like another trip to Staples.
:D

[Zerbie]

The horses were bickering?

Rick

:lol::lol: I totally almost asked the same thing! :p

[tdogg]

Great photos Tdogg. :)
The horses were bickering?


Yup. They were nipping each other and obviously having a conversation which didn't appear to be all that amicable. Maybe they were trying to keep track of the people count. :lol: They were cute anyway, and made me miss my own horse. :o

[Rick336]

It took me two days to figure out what that refers to.

No, I'm not too hip on Biblical scholarship. But I'm guessing, Joseph, and God??

Actually three Dads. Don't forget the Holy Spirit.

Rick

[Zerbie]

Yup. They were nipping each other and obviously having a conversation which didn't appear to be all that amicable. Maybe they were trying to keep track of the people count. :lol: They were cute anyway, and made me miss my own horse. :o

:(:love:

If you had time free during the day I could take you to this neighborhood so we could walk around and you could say hello to the horses. Lots of neighbors have horses here.

[tdogg]

I'm thinking we should have time for that! I would love to meet your neighborhood horses. :)

[Petrese]

I have to comment because I work with Mormons every day, too. My perception is that being Mormon one is brought up with a certain mindset, almost a 'culture' in a way. But there is diversity, and dissent, even within active members of the Mormon church. Granted, I mostly see that from the over 35 population - it seems to me that the younger Mormon population has been raised to ask no questions, and that's a shame.

I've worked with Mormons who have repeated the 'homosexuality is a choice' line, and I've also stood side by side in the street with straight Mormons who marched for equal rights and carried signs and banners on behalf of their gay friends and neighbors.

However the majority may be, and whatever your office is like (and it sounds really hostile, yikes!), I have to make clear that all Mormon individuals are not out there advocating for discrimination. Even if many are, it is not all individuals.

The real problem stems from the leadership and what they are teaching to the young ones. They're doing their own youth a grave disservice by teaching them anti-gay bigotry, and when young Mormons get out into the larger world and repeat what they've been taught, they get a shock when they find out it isn't the only worldview.

I tend to agree with your statements. Not all Mormons are bigots. There are never any absolutes with any group or anything. But the overwhelming message is one of intolerance towards gays thats almost veiled in some 'but with love' wrapper. I too think it is a culture if you will.

The evangelical right is another group that is almost more militant in their stance against us. However even with them there are exceptions. One of the only people from that group to ever discuss my transsexuality with me on a sincere basis was a friend of mine who was a minister of a staunch First Evangelical Free Church. He honestly tried to understand and listen to what I had to say and we could discuss things on a one to one basis. In the end he had almost grasped the reality of things and in some ways had some real difficulties with his churches stance on more than a few issues although he remained steadfast in his faith to God.

As hard as I have worked to go stealth and erase every aspect of my male past so I could live and attain some sense of normalcy in my life sometimes I just want to scream to these people " I AM A TRANSSEXUAL YOU FU**ERS!" when I hear their snide comments and remarks towards the gay movement. But that would only sink my ship and get no message accross at all. So I try to approach things from a much more sophisticated position of a straight woman who is enlightened and tries to get them to understand as someone from 'their side' if you will.

[ctozrn]

Tdogg,

Y'all are so cute! You make a great looking couple! I am in such awe of your signs! Mine looks like it was done by a kindergardner! Oh well, I have tons of ideas for next time!

[tdogg]

Aw, thanks Christine! :love: We worked on our signs all night! I'll probably make new ones down the road, but for this Saturday we'll use these again. My wife wasn't all that keen on joining me, but during the rally, she leaned over, gave me a kiss and said she was glad to be there. It was really sweet.

[labguy22]

One of our protestors but together some shots on Youtube; Enjoy :

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n2BSI6OoUVA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n2BSI6OoUVA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[CaptainSnoopy]

Scott,
One of the things mentioned in a speech from the Sacrament action - the Prop 8 proponents woke a sleeping giant, whose main focus will now be resolve. Which is scarier to them than fear or anger. It was a cool moment hearing that! :D

I think there is a lot of truth in that. I am seeing an energy I have never seen before about an issue.

[Daniel]

Great pics and post tdogg! :love:

[CaptainSnoopy]

I second that. I am loving the pics.

[tdogg]

Thanks guys! Thanks for the Walnut Creek update too, labguy, sounds like you had a great group there!! Did you hear about the action this Saturday, Sacramento Capitol, 2pm. In case you can make it. I've heard that 30,000 are expected from all over the state (though it could be wishing thinking). :love:

[FoxInSox]

This has been such a fun thread to read :love:

Many of you have commented that the passing of Prop 8 may have backlash for the conservatives. You can feel free to include me in that camp.

I never expected Prop 8 to pass. It was California, you know? And then....it didn't....and I was - am - SO MAD! It was just too much, and I couldn't sit silently anymore.

I'm not sure what that will look like for me, but the recall of civil rights of a minority by the powerful in the name of Jesus is just ENTIRELY TOO FUCKED UP. I refuse to remain silent.

[Gennee]

After viewing and reading the posts, I believe that your voices have been heard. All over the country there were protests and I was encouraged. I encourage all of you to stay the course. I gave the same words of encouragement to people at Equality California, Arizona, and Florida. The props lost but many allies were gained (including me), so the future looks promising.

Gennee

:love::love::dove::rainbow:

[Rick336]

The props lost but many allies were gained (including me), so the future looks promising.

Gennee

:love::love::dove::rainbow:

Thanks Gennee. With all the bad news going on right now, including the news about the economy, positive thinking is exactly what we need.

Rick