gay research?

[alphie]

This is from the UMC conservative publication Good News magazine earlier this year. It think it basically says that you might have same-sex attraction but if you identify your self as gay you cannot be a devote Christian. I find it rather 'funny' that Ms. Carr, who is quoted in this article, cannot accept who she is as a whole person.
Please let me know what you think. Here is part of the article:
:confused:

"In his research with Christians who experience same-sex attraction, Dr. Yarhouse told the audience that he used a sample of members from the gay-friendly Metropolitan Community Churches as well as those who found the reparative therapy of Exodus International helpful. He found two distinct responses:

Those who call themselves gay tend to line up their religious beliefs according to their behavior and self-identity. “They see being gay as part of God’s plan,” he said.

Persons with same-sex attraction who do not identify as gay, however, tend to line up their behavior with their beliefs instead. They say their same-sex attraction is just one aspect of their identity rather than summing up who they really are.

Among the latter group is Trista Carr, a research assistant in the Institute for the Study of Sexual Identity (ISSI) at Regent University. The institute was developed by Dr. Yarhouse for research, training, and clinical services.

Ms. Carr said during the luncheon that while she has experienced same-sex attraction “as long as I can remember,” it doesn’t define who she is.

“I’ve never felt comfortable saying, ‘I am gay,’” she said. “It just doesn’t sit with me. For me, my identity is in Christ. It’s not about my sexuality.

“We all have stuff we deal with. We all have struggles we deal with.... But I can give hope to people about living a sanctified life. I like that.”

She found Dr. Yarhouse’s research “reasonable and balanced,” she added. “It gave me the freedom to say, ‘I’m not insane.’ I don’t have to identify as gay. We’re created for his glory. We’re not created for ourselves.”

[Emproph]

Yarhouse has written two books with Stanton Jones, and they’ve both made careers out of selling the anti-gay industry on the idea that gay people can change their sexual orientation - and they are both frauds.

Their advice and “findings” are about as salient as Ms. Carr’s. Basically that by calling yourself and thinking of yourself as something you’re not, that that somehow changes things.
Ms. Carr said during the luncheon that while she has experienced same-sex attraction “as long as I can remember,” it doesn’t define who she is.

“I’ve never felt comfortable saying, ‘I am gay,’” she said. “It just doesn’t sit with me. For me, my identity is in Christ. It’s not about my sexuality.
Which is like saying:
Ms. Carr said during the luncheon that while she has experienced human sexual attraction “as long as I can remember,” it doesn’t define who she is.

“I’ve never felt comfortable saying, ‘I am a sexual person,’” she said. “It just doesn’t sit with me. For me, my identity is in Christ. It’s not about my humanity.
It’s nothing more than glorified celibacy, except that in this case you make the extra effort to define your sexuality as “sinful.”

Mark Yarhouse and Stanton Jones exist to put a scientific face on this self-delusion, to dupe churches and the public at large into thinking homosexuality is a choice, but without calling it a choice.

Then when our rights come up for a vote, the anti-gay industry can run around and point to people like Ms. Carr and say “see, gay people can “change,”” without telling anyone that all she did was change how she thinks about herself.

It’s the same reason why Exodus International exists, they sound just like Ms. Carr, and they (“ex-gays”) run around the country saying that since they “left homosexuality,” and that since being gay is just an identity (read: mental disorder), then there really is no such thing as gay people, only people who are gay identified, and therefore they do not deserve to have equal protections.

Exodus is a professional “ex-gay” organization that calls gay people pedophiles, suggests that homosexuality is responsible for the holocaust, that gay people can’t be Christians. They slander gay people every chance they get. And the ISSI website that Yarhouse developed and that Carr works at has the websites of Exodus, Exodus Youth, and the President of Exodus on their blogroll, as well as has other connections to them as well.

There’s more information (http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/?s=jones+yarhouse) at Ex-Gay Watch on Yarhouse, especially see the second page (http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/page/2/?s=jones+yarhouse) on that list that critiques his book on ex-gays, which, for a study, is a complete joke.

Also, more at BoxTurtleBulletin (http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/results.htm?domains=www.boxturtlebulletin.com&q=jones+yarhouse&sitesearch=www.boxturtlebulletin.com&sa=Search&client=pub-6993663115747596&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23009000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23009000%3B VLC%3A009000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3 AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A666666%3BLC%3A666666%3BT%3A666666% 3BGFNT%3A009000%3BGIMP%3A009000%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en).

[Alecto]

Looking at what was said, objectively, this doesn't surprise or offend me (though maybe I'm misunderstanding something).
This breaks down pretty much how I'd expect:
We know that some people internalize religious oppression. It makes sense that in order for them to be able to go on living while thinking that even gay thoughts might be sinful, that they would attempt to divorce that part of themselves from their identity.
People who have found freedom from religious oppression, however, (ESPECIALLY those who were sampled from a specifically gay-oriented church) are a lot more likely to seek out religious communities that accept them and share their beliefs. That is to say, there ARE those who "stay and fight", there are gay Catholics and gay Mormons and everything else, but I think it's more likely (and almost exclusively the case, in fact, for MCC members) that people just want to live normal lives without having to fight and defend themselves all the time.

I admit, I don't really understand the connection to that research and blah blah quoting random ex-gay person blah blah (and I can see that as giving some further explanation / legitimizing that viewpoint without giving voice to any of the MCC samples), but up to that point I just saw a kind of sociological examination of how same-sex-attracted folks relate to their religious communities (and, if taken further, quite possibly what function those communities serve in their lives).

[Matt Algren]

Also keep in mind that the Good News group was part of the bribery taking place at General Conference (http://www.umnexus.org/?p=72) in April. Their opinion on the subject of homosexuality is colored by their goal of keeping us out of the church.

[alphie]

Thanks to everyone for your insight. It gave me new understandings about why I have been "hidding" at church.

I have been very involved at my UMC church for many years and I believed that homosexuality was a sin.

As the years have passed I accepted that gay people are born that way - but of course you can never act on it - because that would be "incompatible with Christian teaching". So I told/tried to convince myself and others that I was born to be single (celibate). I told myself - as long as I don't act on it I'm okay.

Then when I turned 39 (with great help from God)
I began to prepare for turning 40 and I began to examine my life/dreams/goals etc. - Who am I am? What do I want? What do I believe? Am I really born to be single (celibate)? Who are the people that I have been attracted to/"fallen for" in my life? - then came the Uh Oh- "oh s***" - I'm gay(lesbian).

So I "wrestled" with God and I came out to trusted friend from my church and since then I have come out to my parents, one of my pastors, many friends and some co-workers who have all been very supportive.

Know my dilema is - why am I still hanging out in the place that I have been hiding out for so long? I think that I either need "to chuck it or help change it". I sort of feel a calling/responsibility to help move us forward. I have asked a couple of people in my church to become Reconciling United Methodists (RUMs) and they have. I am nervous about a possible calling in my life to make our church a Reconciling Congregation.

Please pray that God will continue to work in me to bring about further change.

Peace,
"Alphie"


Yarhouse has written two books with Stanton Jones, and they’ve both made careers out of selling the anti-gay industry on the idea that gay people can change their sexual orientation - and they are both frauds.

Their advice and “findings” are about as salient as Ms. Carr’s. Basically that by calling yourself and thinking of yourself as something you’re not, that that somehow changes things.

Which is like saying:

It’s nothing more than glorified celibacy, except that in this case you make the extra effort to define your sexuality as “sinful.”

Mark Yarhouse and Stanton Jones exist to put a scientific face on this self-delusion, to dupe churches and the public at large into thinking homosexuality is a choice, but without calling it a choice.

Then when our rights come up for a vote, the anti-gay industry can run around and point to people like Ms. Carr and say “see, gay people can “change,”” without telling anyone that all she did was change how she thinks about herself.

It’s the same reason why Exodus International exists, they sound just like Ms. Carr, and they (“ex-gays”) run around the country saying that since they “left homosexuality,” and that since being gay is just an identity (read: mental disorder), then there really is no such thing as gay people, only people who are gay identified, and therefore they do not deserve to have equal protections.

Exodus is a professional “ex-gay” organization that calls gay people pedophiles, suggests that homosexuality is responsible for the holocaust, that gay people can’t be Christians. They slander gay people every chance they get. And the ISSI website that Yarhouse developed and that Carr works at has the websites of Exodus, Exodus Youth, and the President of Exodus on their blogroll, as well as has other connections to them as well.

There’s more information (http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/?s=jones+yarhouse) at Ex-Gay Watch on Yarhouse, especially see the second page (http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/page/2/?s=jones+yarhouse) on that list that critiques his book on ex-gays, which, for a study, is a complete joke.

Also, more at BoxTurtleBulletin (http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/results.htm?domains=www.boxturtlebulletin.com&q=jones+yarhouse&sitesearch=www.boxturtlebulletin.com&sa=Search&client=pub-6993663115747596&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23009000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23009000%3B VLC%3A009000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3 AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A666666%3BLC%3A666666%3BT%3A666666% 3BGFNT%3A009000%3BGIMP%3A009000%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en).

[alphie]

Hi all - I saw the movie MILK today - it was great - go see it if you can.
Peace :)

[Gregory_de_Bois]

So, while I doubt that this is what Ms. Carr intended, I find it very helpful. Being gay does not define who I am, and I doubt it does for the majority of most GLBT persons. Sure, it's pretty important, especially when you have to constantly defend your very being from attacks (i.e. religious bigotry). However, I am also male, caucasian, younger, a musician, an actor, and a plethora of other things. All of these make up part of who I am.

Now, to explain the "identity in Christ." You see, within Christianity there is this principle that you die to the old self. This means you are no longer defined by the things of the world. You still are the person God made you to be, in fact you are that and more as you have been cleansed, so you are still gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual, or however God chose to form you. But, your identity is now found in Christ. Christ fulfills all that we offer Him, and we are to give him our all.

From what the article said, though. It seemed like this idea of "identity in Christ" was being used to brush aside the gay-ness. TO ignore an integral part of one's identity.

That's my ten cents.

[u-dog]

Now, to explain the "identity in Christ." You see, within Christianity there is this principle that you die to the old self. This means you are no longer defined by the things of the world. You still are the person God made you to be, in fact you are that and more as you have been cleansed, so you are still gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual, or however God chose to form you. But, your identity is now found in Christ. Christ fulfills all that we offer Him, and we are to give him our all.

From what the article said, though. It seemed like this idea of "identity in Christ" was being used to brush aside the gay-ness. TO ignore an integral part of one's identity.

That's my ten cents.

This is VERY beautifully and sensitively put Greg! I just wish that ONE of my sons were gay so I could throw him in your path and maybe snag you as a son-in-law ! Oh well, I will have to leave that privilege to someone else ;)