Albany Presbytery votes yes on LGBT

[andrewlittle]

On Saturday, January 24 2009, the Albany Presbytery voted to approve the constitutional amendment to three sections of the Constitution of the Presbyterian Church (USA). The primary change was to section G-6.0106b, the wording of which technically denied ordination to LGBT people seeking positions as deacons, elders or ministers.

Most importantly, what effect would this have for LGBT folk?

This question needs to be dealt with on the local and the national level.

Locally, it is clear from repeated votes on similar issues that Albany Presbytery is inclined towards ordaining LGBT. Individual churches within the presbytery may or may not, but it would be quite easy to find (and I hope a listing would be provided) a church that would welcome LGBT not just in the pews, but also in ordained leadership positions. This vote will just make those inclined towards inclusivity more confident in their stand.

Nationally, it would make the PC(USA) one of the mainline churches in which a significant portion is inclusive of LGBT. Apart from that, not really that much.

Ultimately, what all this means for LGBT folk is that there will be affirming and embracing churches that can do so openly and confidently, with no likelihood of disciplinary action. In spite of that threat, there are already a significant number of Presbyterian churches who are. If you need help finding one, by all means leave a comment and we’ll make contact.

Full story at http://andrewlittle.wordpress.com/2009/01/24/albany-presbytery-votes-pro-glbt/

[Daniel]

Great stuff Andy!

What was interesting in reading your report on the vote was the care with which participants conducted themselves. I had the distinct impression that the tide has turned in favor of inclusion, even if the means to getting there is a matter of debate.

Most interesting.

[u-dog]

Good News:

A certain midwestern Presbytery (which shall remain nameless, but Andy knows which one) voted to approve the new more gay friendly constitutional language.

Bad News: It passed 108-106 with 2 abstentions and 2 not voting. BUT... passing is passing.:)

[andrewlittle]

The amendment that has created such excitement for many Presbyterians looks like it will fail ultimately. All of the last 19 presbyteries will have to vote positively to pass it, and that would be a miracle - a miracle I happen to be praying for.

The biggest and most disappointing news, when one considers that 28 presbyteries so far have moved from being anti-LGBT to being pro, is that one presbytery in particular became the only one to flip from generally supporting LGBT ministerial candidates to opposing this amendment. Of all places, that was San Francisco Presbytery - one that has voted pro-LGBT in each of the other three failed attempts to strike oppressive and exclsuive language from the PC(USA)'s Book of Order.

I think it is unlikely that SF presbytery has become anti-LGBT, and more likely that it's members had become complacent and over-confident. Fifty-eight fewer members showed up to vote and, as a result, the amendment failed by 10 votes. I think it is all the more shameful that laziness and lack of action on the part of supporters caused this to happen.

[BruceChris]

By some chance, I strayed from my home church, which is UCC, and attended a Presbyterian church in the Twin cities area this Sunday. On the back of their flyer, there was this note:

"(This church) community is aware that the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) excludes openly gay and lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered people from positions of ordained leadership. Refusing to condone this discrimination, we have joined with other churches to be a More Light Church. With them, we work toward changing this policy, and welcome everyone regardless of sexual orientation into full participation in our congregation."

Now since I was only there once, as a guest, I am not giving their name. So they are no more out, nor any less out, than they were, before I wrote this.

But gee, they sure were some very nice people there.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Matt Algren]

More Light Presbyterians released a statement Saturday that Amendment 08-B has indeed failed. There's good news buried in there, in that the progressive shift in the last six years has been remarkable.

In what has been a much closer situation (http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/04/presbyterian-church-turns-gays-away/) than in 2002, 2 oppositional votes today meant defeat for the national ratification of 08-B. However, the good news is that 69 presbyteries have voted in favor with 14 presbyteries yet to vote. The final tally of support for policy change in 2002 was 42. It is important to recognize that 110 presbyteries out of the 155 presbyteries that have voted thus far demonstrate pro-LGBT equality shifts.
It's still a punch in the gut, but the evidence continues to build that the mainline denominations are moving toward us.

[u-dog]

It's still a punch in the gut, but the evidence continues to build that the mainline denominations are moving toward us.


But will they drop dead before they arrive? Mainline Protestantism is in free-fall decline and We Presbyterians will be among the first to splat on the sidewalk. So whether or not a dead denomination decides to ordain GLBT folks is kind of moot. (pardon my despair) I love my church and its theology ... but its pretty much a dead letter.

[Matt Algren]

But will they drop dead before they arrive? Mainline Protestantism is in free-fall decline and We Presbyterians will be among the first to splat on the sidewalk. So whether or not a dead denomination decides to ordain GLBT folks is kind of moot. (pardon my despair) I love my church and its theology ... but its pretty much a dead letter.
It's in freefall decline because the churches have allowed themselves to be taken over by the more conservative voices. I firmly believe that most people in the pew don't understand what's going on in the denomination. If we (I) can get them engaged in the process, it'll be a revolution, almost on the level of the Reformation.