Dismantling Heterosexual Privilege

[kara speltz]

DISMANTLING HETEROSEXUAL PRIVILEGE


It's been some 40 to 50 years since the Civil Rights Movement made its mark on our country, and we're still at the beginnings of understanding white skin privilege. My guess would be that the vast majority of well meaning white folks would deny the very existence of white skin privilege, but their denial doesn't change the fact that it exists and that even the best of us benefit from it. In Memphis, this March there will be one of the largest conferences ever to address this very important issue.

All of this leads me to wonder how long it will take to dismantle heterosexual privilege. Two years ago in Des Moines at the Catholic Worker gathering, I gave a workshop on "Heterosexism and the Catholic Worker Movement." I was amazed that somewhere between 50-60 folks attended; the vast majority saying that they didn't know what heterosexism meant. The discussion was, for the most part, lively and healing. The Des Moines Catholic Worker printed an article on the workshop, which I believe may have been the first time a CW newspaper had addressed the issue of gays within the CW.

When I returned home, I wrote my former pastor, Michael, a note about the workshop. He had always been very supportive of LGBTs, and his brother is gay, so I was shocked when he wrote back to me asking me what I meant by "heterosexism." That Sunday at church, I spoke with another straight ally, kind of chuckling about Michael's ignorance and she said, even though I have spent a lot of time with gay people, I'm afraid I don't understand either. Since then, I've found myself thinking that we LGBTs have really failed in helping our straight allies in understanding how heterosexism works.

Two examples of heterosexism that I gave at the workshop, I believe, will help people understand how heterosexual privilege works. The first happened back in 2000, when Soulforce organized its first large denominational protest at the United Methodist Conference in Cleveland. Jimmy Creech, a former Methodist minister who had been defrocked for performing same gender marriages was one of our major heroes. We had been invited to meet with some of the Methodist Bishops and put together a list of demands. One of them was the reinstatement of Jimmy Creech, and a request to send him to California where he would be a welcome asset to the Conference there. Jimmy wasn't present when we were putting together these demands. The next morning he addressed our gathering asking us to remove that demand, because he couldn't, in all conscience rely on his heterosexual privilege and be reinstated until every LGBT who had been denied ordination, or removed from the UMC, was also invited back. Everyone was shocked. It hadn't occurred to any of us that Jimmy's being reinstated without the reinstatement of others who were LGBT would be a matter of supporting heterosexual privilege.

The second example happened just a few weeks prior to the gathering in Des Moines. At our parish, we baptize the babies in groups of 5 -7 families at our 9:30 am Family Mass. For the first time in my memory, they actually had a gay couple's baby being baptized and introduced the couple saying they'd been together for 7 years. For all of us who were gay and lesbian, it was an amazing moment, and almost all of us cried tears of joy. As we were having coffee upstairs, I talked about the experience with my straight friends. None of them got the significance of what had just happened. For 18 years, I'd sat and watched the baptisms, wondering if ever, I would see a gay or lesbian couple publicly have their baby baptized. I explained to my straight friends how they could always assume that their child would be baptized, but for the vast majority of gays and lesbians, we could never make such an assumption. The very fact that heterosexuals don't comprehend what heterosexism is, is I suspect a precise definition of heterosexism.

One of the other ways I personally experience heterosexual privilege is when I communicate with a number of my straight friends and family, there is this unstated rule. We'll enjoy each others communications and company, as long as I don't mention ANYTHING about my being a lesbian. When I do, there is absolute silence. Not by all my straight friends and family, but by significant numbers. Those who have close friends or family who are gay, for the most part don't have a problem with this. It is those who think they don't know any gays, and in their own hearts still believe there's something "not quite right," about being gay who silently demand it not be acknowledged nor discussed.

I'm writing this piece to invite all my straight friends to seriously begin to examine your own heterosexual privilege and to begin a process of confronting and dismantling it. I'm also writing it to all my LGBT friends so that they can help their straight allies reach a place where they are willing to challenge themselves around these issues.

Kara

[Alecto]

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but I pictured 60 people showing up to a workshop and then being like "Um...what does the title of this workshop mean exactly?".


I think one part of the problem with "heterosexism" is that we're a fairly new movement, and a fairly new identity. Sure, queer people have always existed, but they haven't always taken that on as an identity, so we're still very much building a language to talk about ourselves and our oppression and I think a lot of folks use "homophobia" when "heterosexism" would be more accurate just because the word isn't in common usage yet.

The other part does definitely tie in to privilege: the first part of ANY kind of privilege is that you have the luxury of not realizing it exists.

[alphie]

Re: DISMANTLING HETEROSEXUAL PRIVILEGE
thanks Kara for your post - You helped me to see some things I hadn't thought about before.

[kara speltz]

A trans friend of mine pointed out that this article doesn't reflect at all on the lives of transgenders. And I agree it doesn't. The issue is much, much more complicated when it comes to transgenders and I'd love to have someone help us understand that aspect. Kara

[Rick336]

One of the other ways I personally experience heterosexual privilege is when I communicate with a number of my straight friends and family, there is this unstated rule. We'll enjoy each others communications and company, as long as I don't mention ANYTHING about my being a lesbian. When I do, there is absolute silence. Not by all my straight friends and family, but by significant numbers. Those who have close friends or family who are gay, for the most part don't have a problem with this. It is those who think they don't know any gays, and in their own hearts still believe there's something "not quite right," about being gay who silently demand it not be acknowledged nor discussed.

When thinking about many heterosexuals' lack of respect for homosexuality, I have always automatically assumed it was "homophobia," or the subconscious fear of something they don't understand. I have never actually considered heterosexual privilege.

This makes perfect sense.


....the first part of ANY kind of privilege is that you have the luxury of not realizing it exists.

This is profound. I have never thought of it this way before.


Rick

[nmwolfboy]

Kara, thank you. This is something that occupies my thoughts often, though i think of it using the term heterocentrism rather than heterosexism. In usage they're interchangeable.

Here's a definition (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Heterocentrism) i found that puts it clearly:
Heterocentrism

Heterosexism (or heterocentrism or heterosexualism (Corsini, 2002)) is the assumption that everyone or a particular person is heterosexual. It can be distinguished from homophobia in that it doesn't necessarily imply hostility towards other sexual orientations, merely a failure to account for their existence.

In queer theory and gender studies, the term is closely related to heteronormativity.
Here's one of my pet peeves: how the media bombards us with messages about what men or women do or don't like, or what are generally seen as defining characteristics of any gender, when what is actually meant is heterosexual men & women.

So how do we awaken straight folks to the reality of heterosexism? i think that our current struggles for equality provide our most immediate opportunities. Isn't it heterocentrism that makes the discrimination against us permissible? Doesn't the obviously visceral reaction of some heterosexuals against gay marriage spring from a heterosexist world view?

All i come up with are questions, but that seems to be how my brain is working lately. How many times in a one day do you hear, on tv, radio, in conversation, in print, or online, references to gay people? How many times in one day are there references to heterosexuals? How many straight people notice that disparity, or note the irony when gay people are accused of dominating the attention of the media or of politicians? Some straight people are definitely aware of it. Does pointing this out to the ones who don't 'get it' lead to any raising of their (and our) consciousness?

[Eugene]

Well, personally I don't like the concept. It sounds like one more piece of ammunition to be used against us by those who demonize homosexuals as radicals out to deconstruct-and-reconstruct traditional society.

"Privilege" is a relative term. If your starting place for human experience is abject poverty in a totalitarian state, then I suppose you could accuse everyone in America of being "privileged". If your starting place for human experience is what we enjoy in America, then heterosexuals aren't "privileged", and homosexuals are seeking equal "rights" rather than similar "privilege".

In my opinion, a good test for the worth of a gay person's view of heterosexuals is whether that view could be applied to his (or her, as the case may be) parents and grandparents. I can't imagine thinking of my parents or grandparents in this way, much less telling them that they should "confront and dismantle" their "privilege".

[Jennifer5]

Kara, it is interesting to hear what you have to say on this topic.

This concept comes up when dealing with any minority.

Although I don't think there's anything really wrong with the concept, I do continue to have one problem with it. I feel like having the attitude that the majority is privileged, leaves the minority as the less fortunate or sometimes considered "victims". Now, I think that getting equal rights means that we have to level that playing field at some point. And I think that that requires that no one come across as a victim.

My reason, victims get victimized. I think that for the most part, ignoring the things that once divided us, will make them eventually go away. Sometimes ignorance might be a good thing??


So, for now that's where I stand on the issue.

[BenL]

A trans friend of mine pointed out that this article doesn't reflect at all on the lives of transgenders. And I agree it doesn't. The issue is much, much more complicated when it comes to transgenders and I'd love to have someone help us understand that aspect. Kara

Kara,

As you knnow, sexual orientation and gender identity, while intricately intertwined, are actually two different things. Sexual orientation is about who a person is attracted to. Gender identity is about the gender a person considers his or her own.

When my spouse transitioned from female to male, he continued to be attracted to men. He is now perceived as gay, where once he was preceived as straight. His orientation hasn't changed, but the label people put on him has. When he transitioned, we went from looking like a straight couple to being the gay male couple we had known for years that we were. With the transition went the hetero privilege that people accorded us previously.

When one of two people who appear to be a lesbian couple transitions to male, they become outwardly a straight couple. If they were out and proud lesbians, they might hate their new external identity and the privilege it carries with it. They might continue to ID as queer, but society still sees what it thinks it sees and accords privilege on the basis of looks.

When a person IDs as genderqueer, neither male nor female, or occupying the space between the extremes of the gender binary, that person has the most difficulty of all. People make gender assumptions within three seconds of meeting someone, and when that identification is ambiguous, many people become violent. Others are dismissive or treat the person with derision.

Much of the privilege question is about other people's perception of an individual. I'm not sure this addressed the concerns your trans friend was trying to bring up.

[Alecto]

Well, personally I don't like the concept. It sounds like one more piece of ammunition to be used against us by those who demonize homosexuals as radicals out to deconstruct-and-reconstruct traditional society.

"Privilege" is a relative term. If your starting place for human experience is abject poverty in a totalitarian state, then I suppose you could accuse everyone in America of being "privileged". If your starting place for human experience is what we enjoy in America, then heterosexuals aren't "privileged", and homosexuals are seeking equal "rights" rather than similar "privilege".

In my opinion, a good test for the worth of a gay person's view of heterosexuals is whether that view could be applied to his (or her, as the case may be) parents and grandparents. I can't imagine thinking of my parents or grandparents in this way, much less telling them that they should "confront and dismantle" their "privilege".

You kind of nailed something important: there are VARIOUS overlapping systems of oppression and privilege. I'm a gay white person. The fact that I'm gay doesn't do anything to take away my white skin privilege, or most parts of my male privilege. So, yeah, in a way it's "relative", but that doesn't mean it's not problematic. It just means it's not the ONLY thing that's problematic.

Personally, I wholly and totally believe that my parents enjoy hetero privilege. And I'd like it very much if they would confront and dismantle it. We're not there yet, but I think there's progress.

If you're saying that the word is going to set someone off on the defensive, then 1)maybe using the word isn't super important, but the idea is the same, and 2)maybe we need to be a little better about just what the word means. Like I said, it's almost a part of the definition of privilege that you don't have to recognize it / see it on your own; it's therefore unfair to expect people to recognize it and see it on their own. Having, and even wielding privilege doesn't make you a monster of a bad person, it just means you can't see the problem yet.

And, Jennifer, I wholeheartedly disagree that ignoring the problem is going to make it go away. Acknowledging an imbalanced power structure is the first step towards fixing it. It's not the ONLY step, but it's the first one. (See "bars of cage" analogy in the "responsibility to society thread: http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5953).

[Jennifer5]

And, Jennifer, I wholeheartedly disagree that ignoring the problem is going to make it go away. Acknowledging an imbalanced power structure is the first step towards fixing it. It's not the ONLY step, but it's the first one. (See "bars of cage" analogy in the "responsibility to society thread: http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5953).

You're right, I didn't present my opinion very well at all. "Ignoring" was the wrong word and would be the wrong way to deal with it.

I think that it is important to not become the victim, because you are underprivileged.

We need people to be aware of heterosexual privilege.

[offog]

A trans friend of mine pointed out that this article doesn't reflect at all on the lives of transgenders. And I agree it doesn't. The issue is much, much more complicated when it comes to transgenders and I'd love to have someone help us understand that aspect. Kara

Hi Kara! Greetings from Canada.

I belong to an organization for GLBT people and allies. About a week and a half ago, two transgendered people spoke at our monthly meeting. One of the things they talked about is the difficulty of being recognized the way you identify and getting the surgeries.

Our provincial health system partly covers sex-change surgery, but you have to jump through a lot of hoops. First you need to get a referral to a doctor in Montreal for counselling. It can take 6 months to a year for that. Then you have to live as a person of your preferred gender for a few years. (I think it's five years.) So if you're a man who identifies as female, you have to live as a woman for those years. The speakers said that's a very dangerous time, as in having to worry about your physical safety.

Another problem is that your I.D. will show as being the gender you were born to. They spoke about one woman who identified as male. He was "outed" when he was was with some friends who didn't know he was transgendered. He had to show his health card some place, and the person who looked at the card said "Your card says you're female."

I'm going to ask someone I know to tell the speakers about this site and this thread, and ask them to check it out. Maybe they can give you some more insight.

[kara speltz]

I must say I'm finding this thread to be very interesting and helpful as I try to figure out how to confront this privilege issue. Clearly, its complicated, especially when you enter into the whole trans issue.


But one of the reasons, I'm feeling committed to confronting this is that I think one of the major reasons we lost the right to marry, is that we LGBTs have allowed heterosexuals to define the terms, far too often.

I wrote the article in response to a straight friend of many year, who is not an ally. His response has consistently been to ignore any thing I have to say about LGBT issues. And as I expected, when I sent him the article, he chose not to respond at all.

Now, I'm planning on following up by helping my friend Tom see that any healthy friendship has to have boundaries that both people can respect and he has not understood the pain he creates, when he acts like my being gay is of no importance.

The more out we are in the world, the faster, I believe these prejudices will be overcome.

Kara

[Eugene]

I wrote the article in response to a straight friend of many year, who is not an ally. His response has consistently been to ignore any thing I have to say about LGBT issues. And as I expected, when I sent him the article, he chose not to respond at all.

Now, I'm planning on following up by helping my friend Tom see that any healthy friendship has to have boundaries that both people can respect and he has not understood the pain he creates, when he acts like my being gay is of no importance.


That's sort of like lifestyle evangelism -- like when I tried for years to bring up Jesus and salvation with one of my Jewish friends. I'm glad he has remained my friend in spite of all that. I don't do it anymore. I'm not that religious, and he's still unconverted.

[Alecto]

I think the comparison you make is faulty: Kara's not asking her friend to BE gay (and I'm guessing, perhaps unfairly, that that was the context of your bringing up Jesus and salvation?). It's more like if you brought up Jesus and salvation because that was an important part of who you were, and you wanted your friend to understand you and where you're coming from better. There are ways to do that without implying or asking your friend to be just like you, but still allowing for a greater understanding of your values and your life.

[Eugene]

I don't see the difference. In both cases, you're demanding that a friend change in order to satisfy your own convictions about what's right and wrong in/with the world.

And in both cases, your friend has every right to walk if he isn't willing to capitulate to your demand -- and your implication that his lifestyle is somehow deficient (or even immoral).

[Alecto]

I think there's a major difference between telling someone that their lifestyle is immoral, and telling someone that MY lifestyle ISN'T immoral. And maybe you don't think there's a difference, and that's an agree-to-disagree thing.

[Eugene]

Feel free to tell people that your lifestyle isn't immoral. I agree with you, and I'm not afraid to defend my lifestyle, either.

But this thread isn't about defending your lifestyle to heterosexuals. It's about telling heterosexuals that there's something wrong with theirs. As it was stated in the original post:

I'm writing this piece to invite all my straight friends to seriously begin to examine your own heterosexual privilege and to begin a process of confronting and dismantling it.

[kara speltz]

That's sort of like lifestyle evangelism -- like when I tried for years to bring up Jesus and salvation with one of my Jewish friends. I'm glad he has remained my friend in spite of all that. I don't do it anymore. I'm not that religious, and he's still unconverted.

First and foremost, my lifestyle has NOTHING to do with this. My lifestyle actually is LIVING SIMPLY, taught to me by the Catholic Worker. Just as there is no heterosexual lifestyle, there is no homosexual lifestyle. We are all unique children of God. And what kind of hypocracy are you playing in trying to convert your Jewish friend, when you state that you're not that religious?

Just as there is white skin privilege, whether we whites wish to acknowledge it or not, there is also heterosexual privilege - like the 1,047 benefits straights get when they marry. You can deny it all you want, but it still the simple truth.

Kara

[Eugene]

And what kind of hypocracy are you playing in trying to convert your Jewish friend, when you state that you're not that religious?

You don't read very carefully, Kara. I said I tried converting him for years. I said I don't do it anymore because I'm not that religious.

I'm not that religious NOW. Like some others on this forum (I think), I was highly and sincerely religious before coming to terms with my homosexuality. I am no hypocrite, thank you very much. I never have been.

First and foremost, my lifestyle has NOTHING to do with this. My lifestyle actually is LIVING SIMPLY, taught to me by the Catholic Worker.

For clarification, lifestyle evangelism is an approach to Christian living taught in fundamentalist and evangelical churches. It encourages the making of friends for the express purpose of creating converts. Ideology is therefore treated as more important than personal relationships. I was comparing this approach to yours, as described in your posts.

Just as there is white skin privilege, whether we whites wish to acknowledge it or not

Yes, well we could start another argument there. I'm a white, male Southerner, and I'm growing weary of the "white privilege" charge. So I just tune it out. I expect that's what most heterosexuals will do when you start telling them they're privileged.

[kara speltz]

Yes, well we could start another argument there. I'm a white, male Southerner, and I'm growing weary of the "white privilege" charge. So I just tune it out. I expect that's what most heterosexuals will do when you start telling them they're privileged.


Oh, can I tell you how many white men tell me they're tired of hearing this. But they do nothing to examine the reality of white skin privilige, and to commit themselves to working against it. You just let the cat out of the bag as to the depth of racism that resides in you.

That's not to say that racism doesn't reside in all of us, but some of us, make it a point to do everything to dismantle white skin privilige and others, like you "grow tired."

[Eugene]

You just let the cat out of the bag as to the depth of racism that resides in you.


Ah, well. At least if I were racist -- which I'm not, notwithstanding your statement of prejudice against my demographic -- at least I'd be a gay racist, so I'm 50% ahead of the game. I would only need to dismantle my white skin privilege. No need to dismantle heterosexual privilege.

Of course, if we consider that I'm male, perhaps I'm only 33% ahead.

[Matt Algren]

Ah, well. At least if I were racist -- which I'm not, notwithstanding your statement of prejudice against my demographic -- at least I'd be a gay racist, so I'm 50% ahead of the game. I would only need to dismantle my white skin privilege. No need to dismantle heterosexual privilege.

Of course, if we consider that I'm male, perhaps I'm only 33% ahead.
"I don't have to hate any person of color. I don't ever have to use the N-word. I can feel totally kindly toward people of color. The fact is, the world is set up to benefit me as a white man. And all I have to do is put my feet on the floor in the morning and I reap the benefits of that. So unless I am actively working to dismantle the system that rewards white people, then I am still racist. And the same for sexism, and able-ism, and so on."
+Gene Robinson (http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/01/gene-robinson-creating-change/)

[Zerbie]

We're not getting anywhere.

Kara has a good point. Society is unjust. I agree with her that it should be more just.

But I also agree, to an extent, with Eugene, that OUR willingness to put ourselves forward and work to change ourselves, expand our awareness, and put forth effort towards making a more just society does not obligate any one else to step forward and take on the same tasks. Like Kara, I would prefer for more people to do so, but I draw the line at demanding it from them.

To my understanding, demands create resistance. But asking?? Voicing a request is something different.
To confront someone who is unaware of heterocentrism with a demand that they face it is risky, you risk losing that person, because many people will respond to a judgmental confrontation, laden with implications that they are on the moral low-ground, by pulling away. Heck, I would!

Rather, from an activist standpoint, I would address this from an issue of offering my experiences and insights as perspectives those persons haven't heard from before. I would offer them in terms of "I" statements, so that instead of saying something like, "You don't know how privileged you are, you really need to dismantle your privilege," I might say something like "Do you know what it feels like to me when you and your spouse are automatically given X, while my spouse and I have been fighting for 15 years only we still can't get XYZ? It makes me feel (fill in the blank.)"

I imagine this is the sort of thing you've already been doing, Kara. But I think the question now becomes whether you prefer to risk the friendship to make your points more forcefully, or whether in this case the friendship means more to you than making your point. It's simply a question of your priority, and if this man has been cold and distant on the subject for so long, then perhaps it's not a friendship you care to preserve on those terms. Even that I would put in specific, personal terms, rather than abstract ones. Tell him how it makes you FEEL when he doesn't respond, rather than talking in abstracts about concepts like privilege. My suspicion is that if he will be moved at all, it will be by your feelings, not by abstract concepts.

[Zerbie]

"I don't have to hate any person of color. I don't ever have to use the N-word. I can feel totally kindly toward people of color. The fact is, the world is set up to benefit me as a white man. And all I have to do is put my feet on the floor in the morning and I reap the benefits of that. So unless I am actively working to dismantle the system that rewards white people, then I am still racist. And the same for sexism, and able-ism, and so on."
+Gene Robinson (http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/01/gene-robinson-creating-change/)

I disagree and vehemently!
By this definition, just trying to live makes everyone an asshole. If this is the kind of thing we're supposed to believe, then given the scope of inequities in our society, then we're all assholes all the time because we aren't saving everyone and everything. Which, frankly, is so overwhelming my response is "F--- you. That's too much to even TRY to do, so why am I bothering," and I would respond with Overwhelm. I would lose confidence and crawl into a paralyzed ball. I would lose faith that the small things I CAN do are going to have any impact at all, and I would retire into blaming everyone ELSE for the situation, since, after all, you are the ones who made things this way, I was simply born into it and now *I* am helpless to do anything about it. So why try?

One simply CANNOT afford to look at it this way. We MUST believe in ourselves, and that means believing in our goodness, believing in our power to create justice, compassion, a society of abundance and sharing. We cannot believe that just by waking in the morning we have committed an injustice. That defeats us even before we take breath.

If we believe that by breathing, by waking, by standing up in the morning we create loving kindness, justice, fairness, our actions will exhibit those qualities. Our actions will demonstrate our beliefs. The moment I believe I am part of injustice just by existing is the moment I give up on you and resentfully live for myself alone.

[Matt Algren]

I disagree and vehemently!
By this definition, just trying to live makes everyone an asshole. If this is the kind of thing we're supposed to believe, then given the scope of inequities in our society, then we're all assholes all the time because we aren't saving everyone and everything. Which, frankly, is so overwhelming my response is "F--- you. That's too much to even TRY to do, so why am I bothering," and I would respond with Overwhelm. I would lose confidence and crawl into a paralyzed ball. I would lose faith that the small things I CAN do are going to have any impact at all, and I would retire into blaming everyone ELSE for the situation, since, after all, you are the ones who made things this way, I was simply born into it and now *I* am helpless to do anything about it. So why try?

One simply CANNOT afford to look at it this way. We MUST believe in ourselves, and that means believing in our goodness, believing in our power to create justice, compassion, a society of abundance and sharing. We cannot believe that just by waking in the morning we have committed an injustice. That defeats us even before we take breath.

If we believe that by breathing, by waking, by standing up in the morning we create loving kindness, justice, fairness, our actions will exhibit those qualities. Our actions will demonstrate our beliefs. The moment I believe I am part of injustice just by existing is the moment I give up on you and resentfully live for myself alone.
When I drive to work in the morning, I don't have to worry that I'll be pulled over because my car is too nice for someone of my ethnicity in a certain part of town.

When I walk down the hall, I don't have to worry about some creepy old businessman smacking my ass as i walk by.

When I go to the grocery store, I don't have to worry about people looking at me funny because I have a Mexican accent.

I get a higher salary than the woman who works the same job not because I asked for it, but because it was given me freely, probably without either of us knowing about the disparity.

The bottom line is that I benefit from racism, sexism, and other -isms without asking or working for any of them. It's the nature of the system.

[kara speltz]

When I drive to work in the morning, I don't have to worry that I'll be pulled over because my car is too nice for someone of my ethnicity in a certain part of town.

When I walk down the hall, I don't have to worry about some creepy old businessman smacking my ass as i walk by.

When I go to the grocery store, I don't have to worry about people looking at me funny because I have a Mexican accent.

I get a higher salary than the woman who works the same job not because I asked for it, but because it was given me freely, probably without either of us knowing about the disparity.

The bottom line is that I benefit from racism, sexism, and other -isms without asking or working for any of them. It's the nature of the system.

I'm with you Matt, there are all sorts of invisible privileges that we experience simply because we're white, middle class people. And I do believe it's absolutely necessary to be aware of those privileges.

And whenever I hear someone say they aren't racist to me it's a sure sign that they have never examined the system we live in, or their own prejudices. I know the areas that I struggle with in terms of making assumptions about people because of their race, or education and it is a constant struggle for me.

Somehow, black folks were never someone I felt superior to. But I remember disliking Puerto Ricans for a while, until I spent a month in Puerto Rico and fell in love with the culture.

I don't always understand the where's and whys of it all, but I know that I seem to have problems with Chinese, though not Japanese or Vienamese. I also have in the past struggled around my attitudes towards Islamic men (which I understand has a lot to do with cultural differences). That's why I say we all have our own racial prejudices, that we struggle with.

Years ago, when we interviewed people for our commune, if a man said that he had no problems with women's liberation, that was a sure sign to us that he didn't have a clue.

So, for those who are committed to justice, we acknowledge our struggles and work toward overcoming them. But denying that it exists is NOT AN OPTION.

Kara

[BruceChris]

I like this part of what Zerbie said best:


One simply CANNOT afford to look at it this way. We MUST believe in ourselves, and that means believing in our goodness, believing in our power to create justice, compassion, a society of abundance and sharing. We cannot believe that just by waking in the morning we have committed an injustice. That defeats us even before we take breath.

If we believe that by breathing, by waking, by standing up in the morning we create loving kindness, justice, fairness, our actions will exhibit those qualities. Our actions will demonstrate our beliefs. The moment I believe I am part of injustice just by existing is the moment I give up on you and resentfully live for myself alone.
And that's on a good day

Matt, my church has declared itself to be Open and Affirming (Accepting of gays), Just Peace (Anti War), and anti-racist, but there arn't often all of that many ways that to bring these things out into the world.

To use just one of your examples when you say "When I drive to work in the morning, I don't have to worry that I'll be pulled over because my car is too nice for someone of my ethnicity in a certain part of town."

Now let me be a bit blunt here. When someone is unfairly pulled over one time, or ten times, or a hundred times, (and while these are things that members of my church try to work against), it doesn't put gas in my tank, or get me a better job, or get me any job, for that matter. When it comes to white privilege, I don't seem to have learned how to use it. Whether I "have" it or not to me becomes an exceedingly academic no, irrelevant question

Bruce Chris

[Rick336]

And whenever I hear someone say they aren't racist to me it's a sure sign that they have never examined the system we live in, or their own prejudices.

Kara,

I understand where you're coming from here because sometimes when people say "I'm not racist, but....." the very next thing that comes out of their mouth is something racist.

But I'm not sure I totally agree that it's always the case.

I can honestly say that I have never had a problem with Jews. Never. In fact, I've never understood people who do have a problem with Jews. I don't get it. Jews seem like regular people to me.

But, I'm not especially proud to admit that I do have a problem with Republicans.

Rick

[Zerbie]

When I drive to work in the morning, I don't have to worry that I'll be pulled over because my car is too nice for someone of my ethnicity in a certain part of town.

When I walk down the hall, I don't have to worry about some creepy old businessman smacking my ass as i walk by.

When I go to the grocery store, I don't have to worry about people looking at me funny because I have a Mexican accent.

I get a higher salary than the woman who works the same job not because I asked for it, but because it was given me freely, probably without either of us knowing about the disparity.

The bottom line is that I benefit from racism, sexism, and other -isms without asking or working for any of them. It's the nature of the system.

Duh. But it doesn't make you a bad person. You are not responsible for the entirety of the system. You are responsible for what you CAN impact.

[Rick336]

So, for those who are committed to justice, we acknowledge our struggles and work toward overcoming them. But denying that it exists is NOT AN OPTION.

There will always be some in our society who care little about justice except when it comes to justice for themselves. But I think we humans as a whole will continue to examine why we believe and behave the way we do. It is part of our evolutionary process. Our brains will always ask, "Why do we do this? Why do we think this way? Is this reasonable?"

Neuroscience is making huge advances in the study of how our brains work and how we process thoughts. This will help us to understand why our subconscious sometimes automatically directs our conscious thoughts and behavior.

Several years ago I became angry when the men of the city's sanitation department walked across my lawn to collect the next door neighbor's garbage. Why couldn't they walk down the driveway and stay off my lawn? I became so angry that I called the city and complained about it. The men who were doing this happened to be African American and they were doing no damage to my grass.

Then I began to examine why I was so upset about these men walking across my lawn. I asked myself, if the men were white, would I be as upset? The answer I got was; maybe not so much.

Then I asked myself if the men walking across my lawn to collect the neighbor's garbage were not just white, but muscular and good-looking. Would I be angry? The answer to that was; absolutely not.

My subconscious had automatically judged these sanitation workers without me even being consciously aware of it. That automatic judgment caused me to be angry for no good reason.

Rick

[Zerbie]

Fascinating story, Rick. I believe many people would rather close their perception to discovering such things about themselves to protect their ego concept rather than notice there was an issue and start to change it. Ultimately, it will be healthier for you not to be angry, and in this way we see that being willing to see there was an issue there was to your own benefit.


There will always be some in our society who care little about justice except when it comes to justice for themselves.

Rick

Yes. We see plenty of this. It is sad.

There are a few underlying threads to this conversation that need to be pulled up on top, because we're all assuming a certain basis to the conversation, and several of us are assuming a different basis.

1. awareness. That is what I see Matt and Kara calling out about. It is what you just illustrated so well in your story, Rick. Too many people are unaware of the inequities. I'll bet there are plenty of white people who don't even notice that stuff about racial profiling by cops while driving.
That has to come first. First we have to become aware that there are discrepancies in how people are received, treated, and responded-to, before anything can change.

2. assuming awareness (which is the basis from which I have been speaking, ASSUMING that everyone I'm talking to on this thread is aware that our US society is racist as well as heterosexist.)
If we assume awareness, then the question becomes "How can I contribute to a more just world?" Just asking the question is the beginning of contributing to a more just world. If you are always asking 'how do I generate justice?' you will see when you have opportunities to do so and you will use those opportunities to generate justice.
But if the question asked is "CAN I contribute to a more just world?" Or worse, if it is phrased as an answer "Just by putting on shoes and stepping out my door in the morning I participate in racism," then that is defeating. You have defeated justice from the very beginning by believing that your very existence is problematic. Your existence must be the solution, NOT the problem.

3. Faith in oneself versus self-protective, defensive thought.
This is a critical distinction. One includes awareness and the capacity to move outside of a limited hierarchical 'system.' The other excludes awareness and imprisons us in that system.

We MUST have faith in ourselves. If we have faith in our essential goodness, if we trust that we must and WILL move towards justice, we will have courage to expand our awareness and face the problems. We will be increasing in our wisdom of how best to respond to inequities and injustice all the time.

If we haven't got the courage to face the problems, or if we believe they are insurmountable, we will retreat to protect ourselves (so we think!) with defensive thoughts like, "Well, I'M not racist!" and perhaps we'll withdraw from facing the fact that society IS racist (heterosexist, etc). We will be so occupied protecting the self-concept that we will not even SEE the times when we have choices to play into the system, or to live beyond it into a more just way of living. Because we don't see it, we are trapped in it. Which brings us back to the necessity of #1, awareness. But awareness by itself is only one part of the whole recipe. We need faith in ourselves. The problem is great. We ourselves must be greater.

[BruceChris]

Zerbie, sometimes good things can happen if we are willing to reach out, and take some risk, and try to be sensitive.

And sometimes it's better just knowing when to stay out of something that I may not be able to contribute to.

BC

[Zerbie]

Zerbie, sometimes good things can happen if we are willing to reach out, and take some risk, and try to be sensitive.

And sometimes it's better just knowing when to stay out of something that I may not be able to contribute to.

BC

Never mind.

[Eugene]

So unless I am actively working to dismantle the system that rewards white people, then I am still racist.

Thanks, but I turned from self-loathing when I came out as a gay man. I'm not going to re-enter it because I'm a gay WHITE man. I am what I am, and I don't owe anybody an apology or penance for being what I am.

[Zerbie]

Okay, there is another way of interpreting Robinson's remark that I have just thought of. My initial, and strong, response, was that it was one of negative judgment against oneself just for being. It still contains a strong, strong taste of negativity. It can totally be seen as 'self loathing' as Eugene says.

But what is Robinson's definition of 'actively working?' Unless the definition is very broad it absolutely cripples us all before we've even begun to live. There is NO WAY one can actively work in advocacy organizations, social movements, etc for ALL the isms at once. Which would then leave the thousands whose entire lives are dedicated to the service of a better world for all just a bunch of assholes for still being either racist, or heterocentric, or not shopping 100% cruelty free, or, or, or. . . it is IMPOSSIBLE to tackle it all. We can only do what we can do.

Hence, unless Robinson's definition is very very broad, I still maintain he is missing something quite critical, and that is that one MUST have faith in oneself first. Only if we believe our existence is GOOD will we be truly successful in 'doing' good. We will give out to the world whatever quality is in us. We must NOT do the right thing out of guilt! We must do it Because It Is Right.

And remember that for most of us, our opportunities to move the world towards justice, though many, will be small. Have confidence that the small deeds are what create great ones over time.

[Rick336]

Fascinating story, Rick. I believe many people would rather close their perception to discovering such things about themselves to protect their ego concept rather than notice there was an issue and start to change it. Ultimately, it will be healthier for you not to be angry, and in this way we see that being willing to see there was an issue there was to your own benefit.

I never thought I had any racist thoughts at all. I always considered myself to be very open-minded and accepting of all races and cultures. It wasn't until this incident happened that I realized that there were racist thoughts hiding deep in my subconscious. What brought it to the surface of my consciousness is the fact that the subject of racism is part of the national conversation.

And I think this is the point that Kara is trying to make about heterosexism. It needs to be part of our national conversation so that we can acknowledge it's existence and examine it.

Rick

[Matt Algren]

I like this part of what Zerbie said best:


And that's on a good day

Matt, my church has declared itself to be Open and Affirming (Accepting of gays), Just Peace (Anti War), and anti-racist, but there arn't often all of that many ways that to bring these things out into the world.

To use just one of your examples when you say "When I drive to work in the morning, I don't have to worry that I'll be pulled over because my car is too nice for someone of my ethnicity in a certain part of town."

Now let me be a bit blunt here. When someone is unfairly pulled over one time, or ten times, or a hundred times, (and while these are things that members of my church try to work against), it doesn't put gas in my tank, or get me a better job, or get me any job, for that matter. When it comes to white privilege, I don't seem to have learned how to use it. Whether I "have" it or not to me becomes an exceedingly academic no, irrelevant question

Bruce Chris
Inequality happens not just when something is added to one side, but also when it is subtracted from the other.

[Matt Algren]

Thanks, but I turned from self-loathing when I came out as a gay man. I'm not going to re-enter it because I'm a gay WHITE man. I am what I am, and I don't owe anybody an apology or penance for being what I am.

How does acknowledging systemic racism make you self-loathing? That's a weird leap to make. And who said anything about apologies or penance?

[Daniel]

"I don't have to hate any person of color. I don't ever have to use the N-word. I can feel totally kindly toward people of color. The fact is, the world is set up to benefit me as a white man. And all I have to do is put my feet on the floor in the morning and I reap the benefits of that. So unless I am actively working to dismantle the system that rewards white people, then I am still racist. And the same for sexism, and able-ism, and so on."
+Gene Robinson (http://blog.mattalgren.com/2009/01/gene-robinson-creating-change/)

If we lived in South Africa right now, and were 25, would we see things a bit differently?

Watched a news item last night on World Focus (PBS) which was about integration and how younger people in South Africa experience the world very differently than their grandparents. Their school system really is integrated in a way that ours is not. What will that mean for their future and white privilege?

To say the the 'world' is set up a certain way is to describe one's world, not everyone's world. Places like South Africa may be harbingers of what is possible, even though Western societies may think themselves superior.

I'm very curious as to what South African society will be like in 20 years, when young people will be running the country. If any country has a chance of getting it right, they are. Their consititution also supports equal rights for gay people. Coincidence?

Of course, I don't suppose that I what I am talking about. But it does raise the matter of perspective, does it not?

[Eugene]

How does acknowledging systemic racism make you self-loathing? That's a weird leap to make. And who said anything about apologies or penance?

Oh, it sounds to me like Gene Robinson is demanding penance:

So unless I am actively working to dismantle the system that rewards white people, then I am still racist.

And it sounds like Kara Speltz is demanding penance:

That's not to say that racism doesn't reside in all of us, but some of us, make it a point to do everything to dismantle white skin privilige and others, like you "grow tired."

Penance is a very relative concept. I realize I'm much more conservative than most everyone who post on this forum (though I consider myself moderate), but I would think even someone with a more liberal bent would have no trouble seeing the connection. It isn't a "weird leap to make."

I'm glad there are people motivated to work for social justice. Me -- I'm motivated to live and let live. What I DON'T LIKE is for social activists to call me racist because I'm not expending all my energy to deconstruct society. Hurrah for them! But I'm of a less radical persuasion.

And getting back to the original topic, I think most heterosexuals would view this idea of "dismantling heterosexual privilege" as a radical concept. That isn't helpful to the cause of gay rights, in my opinion. Which is the point I've been trying to make -- and having made it, I going to consider that I've said enough on this thread.

[Rick336]

I'm glad there are people motivated to work for social justice.

Me too. Without them we'd still have slavery.

Rick

[Rick336]

And getting back to the original topic, I think most heterosexuals would view this idea of "dismantling heterosexual privilege" as a radical concept.

Of course they would. Look at how radical white America thought racial integration was. They were outraged at the idea. I remember their words:

"If we don't put a stop to this now, the Negroes will want to eat at every white restaurant in town!"

But as time went by we began to examine how our prejudices hurt racial minorities and eventually we began to change. Years later we even elected an African American president. And now the words are:

"Be the change you want!"


Rick

[Jennifer5]

I definitely agree that heterosexual privilege exists, I also agree that it should not be ignored (something which didn't come off clearly in my original post).

So, after you are aware of heterosexual privilege (and the many other types of privilege), what should I do next?

The awareness is clearly step one, but is that all we are after?

How exactly do we fight it?

[tdogg]

Who said, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem? It fits I believe. But history also shows that it's usually a small group that fights for rights of a larger population. Yes, I get tired of fighting and question the intelligence of it, when the so many of my GLBT sisters & brothers seem content with letting others do the work. It irritates me, makes me sad and even more tired.

Sometimes I think of moving to Canada and letting them live with the status quo.

But then, I realize that even if I were the only one fighting, working, being actively involved in trying to change the world, I would continue on. Because although equality benefits all, I see the benefit to myself and it's worth the struggle. I will also not begrudge those who choose to live with the status quo from benefiting from the fruits of my labor.

Action begins with awareness, but there must be follow up for the action to be effective. It can be as simple as talking to your family and friends, putting a sign in your window or yard or a sticker on your car, wearing a button. You may want to then make phone calls and write letters, attend equality rallies, get more involved. Some even dedicate their lives to activism if many forms, giving up well paying jobs to sometimes even volunteer full time.

It is the cumulative effort which produces results, and all actions are important. You can even be effective if you choose one person to have conversations with or just write a letter to your local newspaper editor. It doesn't take much and it doesn't have to cost you much.