Tired of Christianity

[petsr4ever]

Hello, my name is Lucy and this is my first post in this Forum. I live in rural North Dakota, but am originally from St. Paul, Mn. I am not gay, but have always been an advocate for Human Rights. Just last week, the North Dakota House of Representatives refused to pass a bill which would make it illegal for gays and lesbians here in North Dakota to be discriminated against in jobs and housing. In otherwords, employers and landlords can legally fire gays and lesbians and refuse to rent to gays and lesbians in this state. Their reasoning being; "outlawing discrimination against gay and lesbian North Dakotans would protect behavior that can be changed and which God abhors".

Well, that is about the last straw for me. Throughout the last horrible 8 years of the Bush Administration, the so-called "religious right" has grown to be a terrible threat to the freedom of all Americans. Here in the "red state" of North Dakota, nothing has changed since the Obama Administration has taken over. North Dakota might as well be a "Christian Theocracy". Unfortunately, the only reason that wouldn't work here is that the many Christian religions can't even agree with or get along with each other. Anyway, I am through calling myself a Christian. I was born and raised Catholic, but left the Catholic Church years ago. And why did I do that? Because all the Catholics I knew were hypocrites. Now I realize that all Christians are hypocrites. I will always believe in God. But never more in organized Christian religion. Does anyone else have any comments about this?

[BruceChris]

What you are talking about is largely the result of two *flaws* in our system of government.

The first of these is the First Amendment, that guarantees us two things. One is freedom of religion. You can worship the the tree out in front of your house, or you can worship bedbugs. Or you can worship a God of love.

The other part of the First Amendment guarantees us freedom of speech. You can go out and say any strange thing that you want to. Or you can go out and tell what you believe to be the truth.

The second is the fact that we live under a democracy. Winston Churchill once said that it is the worst form of government that there is, except for every other. If you want to change the way our government works, you have as much right to do so as anyone else.

The people that you speak of need to be educated. They need to learn that there have always been gays and lesbians among us, that it is part of the way that God created His children, and that GLBT folk are no more likely to harm someone than anyone else is.

So stick around, Lucy, and meet the folks. You may even meet some Christians that you can respect.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

St. Paul? Don't Ever trust anybody from St. Paul!

[BruceChris]

And mostly, they were not meant for the people that I respect. You are quite right, there are far too many hypocrites in too many of the churches. The thing is, as christians of any degree of commitment, it is our job to do our best to help change this, and not just throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Still, maybe you do have a point. Your attitude is what got Martin Luther, and a number of *Reformed* churches started. So start you own church. The First Amendment says you can do that, too.

Peace, Bruce Chris

[petsr4ever]

Hey, Bruce, I guess I am just angry. I guess I am A LOT angry. I have been since the "Christian Rights" of the Bush Administration took over the country. I never could understand how the so-called "Christians" could support an illegal and immoral war (with Iraq). And, I can't understand how so-called "Christians" can condemn a lifestyle that a person is born to. Then I look back and see all the other stuff so-called Christians have done in the past; what they did to the Native Americans, slavery, they even supported Hitler for awhile, anyway. I was born and raised Catholic. Went to Catholic grade school and high school. After I got out of school, I met and married a black man, and boy did the roof blow off of my so-called "Christian catholic family". That was back in the '60's and now it's something new again. Whatever happened to "live and let live", and "do unto others"? When did "Christ" leave Christianity? I am sorry if you are a Christian and I have offended you. I wish I could find a church I could relate to. Am I expecting too much? Do you see where I'm coming from? Maybe I should try the Unitarian Church. Only problem is, the closest one to where I live is in Bismark, which is 100 miles away. I do believe in God. I have never lost my faith in God, it's just the Christians that have disappointed me so much. Any suggestions?

[antiochian]

Merry meet Lucy,

Many of us here share your frustration. Many Christians share your frustration, too. I've met the kind that you describe, the self-righteous wackos, but I've also had the pleasure of meeting some who are tolerant, open-minded, truly christlike people.

Some LGBT people, not unlike yourself, come to a point when they can no longer deal with the insanity and hatred which is the fruit of the larger American Christian culture. We see leaving Christianity as a necessity for the preservation of our own well-being. Some become atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, or Buddhists, or Wiccans or some other brand of Neo-Pagan (such as myself). We slowly learn to love ourselves and to come to terms with the trauma our old faiths inflicted on us.

There are also many LGBT folks and allies who remain in the church and work for change within it. I respect these LGBT Christians, some of whom are my dear friends, while disagreeing with their decision to remain in a religion that has caused us so much suffering.

You will find some neat people here of all persuasions, if you choose to hang around and get to know us.

By the way, straight allies are a blessing to the LGBT community. We need you. Thank you for sticking up for us!

[petsr4ever]

Thank you for inviting me into your group. I need a place to vent. I promise that I won't just use this forum to vent, though. I'll listen, too. Maybe we can all help each other.:)

[scott snedeker]

One distinction made by many in Nomenclature is distinguishing Christian with a capital C denoting an organized religious follower of church leaders who consider themselves morally superior and therfeore entitled to judge all who they consider morally inferior, from christian, those who follow the then novel teachings of unconditional love that Christ taught 2000 years ago during the era of the Roman Empire. (Buddha taught the same 500 years previous)

I identify as a pagan (nature-based spirituality) studying to develop my awareness through traditional Buddhist meditation practice. I embrace the teachings of Christ but not those of arrogant church leaders who claim to speak for him.

[BruceChris]

This is a fairly complete list of churches that welcome gay folk into their church. Just enter your state, and scroll down. Unfortunately, North Dakota is so sparsely settled region that you may not find anything very near.

It's run by Rev. Rebecca, a former minister at my church. You can see her picture, if you go to the home page.

http://www.welcomingresources.org/usa.htm

United Church of Christ are usually more accepting, and less judgmental. They voted to endorse same sex marriage a couple of years ago. This is my church:

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1093

Peace, Bruce Chris

[merlin2921]

I...am a Christian. Sort of. (Not sure now. Since I've come out, it's been getting harder and harder to stay one, what with the shunning and whatnot.) I share many of your frustrations, although it's much better where I live (near Vancouver, BC, Canada) than in some places in the States, from what I hear.

Not sure what can be done, other than continuing to educate people, continuing to lobby and offer nonviolent resistance, and keeping on keeping on. Slavery and witch-burning fell, and this will, too.

[petsr4ever]

Thanks for the info, Bruce. The only two churches listed in North Dakota were both Unitarian, one in Bismarck and one in Fargo. They are both about the same distance from where I live. I had been thinking about trying a Unitarian church before. I work every other weekend, so I would only be able to go every other Sunday, so I guess my husband and I could try out the one in Bismarck. Do you have any information about Unitarian beliefs? Are they Christian, or do they kind of take in all beliefs?
I just noticed that you are from Minneapolis. I worked in downtown Mpls right before I moved out here. Have you ever heard of Andrew Residence? It's a residential facility for the mentally ill. I am a nurse, by the way. I work at the North Dakota State Hospital in Jamestown right now. I've been out here for 8 years. My (second husband) is from this area. My first husband died 10 yrs ago. I decided then that I wouldn't mind spending the rest of my life out in the country somewhere so I could have a bunch of pets. I met my present husband online. He is a very liberal minded person, and he also loves animals, so we make a good pair. We live 34 miles SW of Jamestown in a town of 13 people. I really enjoy living out in the country, but I have a very difficult time with the backwards conservative mind set out here. But, my husband and all of our animals and the wildlife make it easier to bear. Both my husband and I have been trying to figure out what kind of church we would like to go to, considering our political beliefs. I think we will give the Unitarian church a try. Thanks again and talk with ya later.

[petsr4ever]

Hi Merlin, nice to meet you. Are you having problems with your family since you came out, or is it everybody? I worked with a fellow in Mpls who is gay, and he really had a hard time with it. His family was very accepting and he came from a big family, but I think the biggest problem he had was accepting it in himself. He was born and raised Catholic, and has remained Catholic, so I think he has a conflict with what he was taught (as a Catholic) and what he can't help being. He and I got to be really good friends, but it took a long time. He is really stand-offish when he first meets someone, because (I think) he is afraid that people won't like or accept him for what he is. After a long time of working together and he got to trust me, we became the best of friends. There was always a very sad part about him, though, and I think it had to do with him being gay. When I moved out here to North Dakota, I invited him out to visit, but he would never come. He said he would really feel out of place here. Well, unfortunately, he may have been right. I can just imagine what he must be thinking if he heard anything about the bill they refused passing out here last week that would have protected gay folks from job and housing discrimination. I like it out here in some ways, but i have a really hard time with the backwoods mind set out here. Well, got to get going, but hang in there, you've got friends. Lucy

[Gennee]

I understand how you feel, Lucy. When Christianity leaves out Christ, it's just another religion. I also believe in some cases Christianity was hijacked by those who desire to create their own kingdom based on thinking the way they do. The church has been wrong about many issues and it needs to change again regarding lgbt people.

I'm thankful for having ministers share with me to know the bible for myself. The way glbt people are treated by 'Christians' is wrong. I am a transgender person and I have been affirmed by God that he loves me as I am. Presently, I am working to change this mindset by educating people. It's the only way to break down the walls of ignorance and bigotry.

Gennee

:love::wave:

[BruceChris]

They have lots of room for people who believe in Christ, but they don't require it. Good luck.

For me to find the resources that I need, I need to live in a big city. If you click on the link to the church description on my last post, you may see what I mean by that.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Jennifer5]

Welcome Lucy :wave:
I see that you're already finding yourself right at home. :love:

[marcdash]

Most of the people Jesus hung out with werent religious either.
To be honest I have much more non-believing friends, in fact I have never made a decent Christian friend in my life and I admire atheists with good morals who do good for no reward.
The Bible says we are not to be polluted by the world, but at the same time man needs a saviour...we are sick in sin.
Anyway sorry im just dithering on now, but never be ashamed to be a Christian, there is good and bad in everyone and just because a skateboard says its a car, doesnt mean its true..."These people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me".
I actually dont like being called 'gay' because over where I am most gay people are for want of a better word 'sluts' and I dont want branded as the same, but it isnt just gays who are guilty of that one!
Again i totally understand where your coming from, but try not to worry too much about it and focus on Gods love which surpasses knowledge...then nothing else really matters.

[merlin2921]

Hi Merlin, nice to meet you. Are you having problems with your family since you came out, or is it everybody? I worked with a fellow in Mpls who is gay, and he really had a hard time with it. His family was very accepting and he came from a big family, but I think the biggest problem he had was accepting it in himself. He was born and raised Catholic, and has remained Catholic, so I think he has a conflict with what he was taught (as a Catholic) and what he can't help being. He and I got to be really good friends, but it took a long time. He is really stand-offish when he first meets someone, because (I think) he is afraid that people won't like or accept him for what he is. After a long time of working together and he got to trust me, we became the best of friends. There was always a very sad part about him, though, and I think it had to do with him being gay. When I moved out here to North Dakota, I invited him out to visit, but he would never come. He said he would really feel out of place here. Well, unfortunately, he may have been right. I can just imagine what he must be thinking if he heard anything about the bill they refused passing out here last week that would have protected gay folks from job and housing discrimination. I like it out here in some ways, but i have a really hard time with the backwoods mind set out here. Well, got to get going, but hang in there, you've got friends. Lucy

Hi Lucy, sorry it took me a while to respond to you, I didn't notice your post until just now. :P

Well, to be honest, I haven't told my family yet. I've already lost all but one of my friendships over this (I was 100% invested in the Christian world prior to coming out, unfortunately), and I'm trying to build a solid base of accepting friendships before risking the loss of family support, too. :injured: I'm already struggling with suicidal/self-destructive thoughts, so I figure I should take it one step at a time. :/

I don't know yet if I'll have issues accepting myself now. I never did that well to begin with, and it's been a tremendous relief not to have to pretend to be straight anymore...no clue if my self-esteem will eventually go up. I'm in survival mode at the moment.

[Rick336]

Lucy,

Since you're asking for advice I'll give you mine.

If anybody tells you they know what happens to you after you die, they don't. Nobody does.

Just because everybody around you believes something, that doesn't make it true. If somebody tries to get you to believe what they say is true, ask for evidence. If they can't provide it, be very skeptical of what they tell you.

Always remember that reality can only be measured with evidence. If there's no evidence to support a belief, it probably isn't true. If something is invisible, chances are it doesn't exist.

If, on the other hand, you find that your belief in God actually makes you a genuinely happy person then you should probably stick with it. Life is short. Happiness is the most important thing.

Think for yourself. Make your own decisions. Live the life you want.



Rick