I don't want therapy

[Juls]

I recently went to see a therapist to help me with my issues of accepting myself as a lesbian and a Christian. I thought it was what I wanted to do. I thought it would give me the courage to come out to my family. After several sessions all I got out of it was the same stuff I could have told myself. When I am alone with this person, telling her all about my life and what I wanted out of therapy I just feel like I am under the glass, feeling like even she doesn't really understand. I think I just need some gay Christian friends. I have been a member of Soulforce for about a little over a year and have read many of Mel White's books and feel like I am well on my way to acceptance, however I am not ready to come out to my hardcore Baptist family or Greek Orthodox extended family. I also work with two Christians and feel uncomfortable with approaching the subject there as well.

My girlfriend is ready to disown me because I am still so unhappy and let the fear and depression I feel over this subject interfere with our happiness. Do I have issues, yes but I don't want therapy. She is mad I am ready to quite already. Anyone have any advice?

[tdogg]

My girlfriend is ready to disown me because I am still so unhappy and let the fear and depression I feel over this subject interfere with our happiness.

This is the key issue. One cannot be happy in a relationship until they are happy in themselves. We often look to others (it works both ways, if your girlfriend is looking to you for happiness and not finding it) for happiness, but it can only be found in ourselves. Therapy could work, I recommend it. But sometimes just taking a step back from life, practicing introspection, meditation and logical thought processes (such as comparing pros and cons, etc.) helps as much as therapy, or more.

I went to a therapist for two sessions shortly after the November 4th elections and Prop 8. The therapist either was disinterested or confused or whatever, but I finally realized that my feelings were pretty normal considering the circumstances, that I was able to work that out myself better than with this particular therapist, and that I probably didn't need therapy more than I needed to just be with and vent with my friends and community in general.

Good luck. It takes time sometimes to get it all figured out. Maybe trying a different therapist would help??

[Daniel]

My girlfriend is ready to disown me because I am still so unhappy and let the fear and depression I feel over this subject interfere with our happiness. Do I have issues, yes but I don't want therapy. She is mad I am ready to quite already. Anyone have any advice?

I agree with Tdogg. One key matter is your relationship with your girlfriend. If you have made an agreement with her to pursue therapy, then discontinuing it now might have serious ramifications. Are you prepared to have your relationship end because you haven't found a therapist to your liking, or simply don't like how it's gone so far?

I've been in therapy, both individually and as a couple. It's hell. It hurts. It's like being dragged through shit. And it can seem like things are never going to get better. But having done it, I can tell you that a good therapist can be very very helpful. Things do get better if one sticks with it.

Ok. So your current therapist and you aren't clicking. There are plenty of others out there. I would advise you to keep at it. Friends can only do so much. And as such, they are not trained (and it is training!) to help you look at things squarely.

Good therapists know how to listen. But you might keep in mind that they spend a lot of time listening to clients who complain and whine and do little to effect change (it was a smack upside my head the day I realized I was whining with the best of them!) And my husband and I have been lucky to have worked with one that is able to do just that: listen. It's made all the difference. But you know what? I had to give the guy a chance. I wanted to run out the door right off the bat. But I stuck with it. And very glad I did.

Effective therapy helps us see things we don't want to see about ourselves- both good stuff and the not so good stuff. On the negative side, it usually amounts to becoming aware of how we are our own worst enemies. On the positive? It means mining our own gold. And that takes a bit of digging. Means getting one's hands in the dirt.

Whether you need a different therapist or to spend some time alone in reflection is a call only you can make. But whatever you do, I hope you do not sell yourself short as others in your past have. ;)

[Jennifer5]

I recently went to see a therapist to help me with my issues of accepting myself as a lesbian and a Christian. I thought it was what I wanted to do. I thought it would give me the courage to come out to my family. After several sessions all I got out of it was the same stuff I could have told myself. When I am alone with this person, telling her all about my life and what I wanted out of therapy I just feel like I am under the glass, feeling like even she doesn't really understand. I think I just need some gay Christian friends. I have been a member of Soulforce for about a little over a year and have read many of Mel White's books and feel like I am well on my way to acceptance, however I am not ready to come out to my hardcore Baptist family or Greek Orthodox extended family. I also work with two Christians and feel uncomfortable with approaching the subject there as well.

My girlfriend is ready to disown me because I am still so unhappy and let the fear and depression I feel over this subject interfere with our happiness. Do I have issues, yes but I don't want therapy. She is mad I am ready to quite already. Anyone have any advice?
My opinion is that if you decided to do this, it's way to soon to just give up on it. Once you commit, you should give it a real chance.

I was forced to go to a therapist during my parent's divorce because my dad somehow thought the therapist would say we need to see him. Well, I was completely against the whole thing. I hated going each time. Over a few months, we (my sister and I) only had a few sessions because we came up with excuses and canceled most of the time.

That was a couple years ago and only just this week did I realize something good did come out of it. She wasn't even a good therapist, what I gained from the experience had almost nothing to do with her. She was trying to talk to us (my sister and I) about why we should see my dad.... and I defended our reasons for refusing to do so. I had said these things many times before, just never out loud where real people could hear them. She was completely shocked by the statements that came out of our mouths, she never was able to argue it. Even in the ridiculous situation, something positive came out of it. I say, don't under estimate the power of therapy.

I agree with Tdogg. One key matter is your relationship with your girlfriend. If you have made an agreement with her to pursue therapy, then discontinuing it now might have serious ramifications. Are you prepared to have your relationship end because you haven't found a therapist to your liking, or simply don't like how it's gone so far?

I've been in therapy, both individually and as a couple. It's hell. It hurts. It's like being dragged through shit. And it can seem like things are never going to get better. But having done it, I can tell you that a good therapist can be very very helpful. Things do get better if one sticks with it.

Ok. So your current therapist and you aren't clicking. There are plenty of others out there. I would advise you to keep at it. Friends can only do so much. And as such, they are not trained (and it is training!) to help you look at things squarely.

Good therapists know how to listen. But you might keep in mind that they spend a lot of time listening to clients who complain and whine and do little to effect change (it was a smack upside my head the day I realized I was whining with the best of them!) And my husband and I have been lucky to have worked with one that is able to do just that: listen. It's made all the difference. But you know what? I had to give the guy a chance. I wanted to run out the door right off the bat. But I stuck with it. And very glad I did.

Effective therapy helps us see things we don't want to see about ourselves- both good stuff and the not so good stuff. On the negative side, it usually amounts to becoming aware of how we are our own worst enemies. On the positive? It means mining our own gold. And that takes a bit of digging. Means getting one's hands in the dirt.

Whether you need a different therapist or to spend some time alone in reflection is a call only you can make. But whatever you do, I hope you do not sell yourself short as others in your past have. ;)
Someday, when I decide I need a therapist to talk to, I want yours!

Those of you how have been comforting me at my lowest points for the last few years probably feel I do need a therapist. :rolleyes: Considering that I'm not against them the way I used to be, I'm sure I'll end up there at a young age. :lol:

Fear and depression though Juls? Your friends can't help you much with that. Plus, it's not fair to put that on them... they can only help you so much.

It's your decision to make, but for what it's worth, if I got into therapy again I think I'd stay. Just find a good one.

What ever you decide to do, we love you. :love:

[Juls]

Thanks everyone. My girl friend just doesn't understand why I cant let go of my fears about acceptance. She isn't a religious person at all and only slightly understands from the viewpoint of someone who has always been naturally happy and accepting of her own sexuality. I find that when I spend time reading about acceptance, praying and reading about your experiences helps me more than anything else has. The sadness I feel is greatly relieved. Visiting this website on a daily basis is very comforting. I have to really think about going back to see the therapist I was seeing. I didn't really feel like we connected, or maybe I expected something else to happen.

[Daniel]

Thanks everyone. My girl friend just doesn't understand why I cant let go of my fears about acceptance. She isn't a religious person at all and only slightly understands from the viewpoint of someone who has always been naturally happy and accepting of her own sexuality. I find that when I spend time reading about acceptance, praying and reading about your experiences helps me more than anything else has. The sadness I feel is greatly relieved. Visiting this website on a daily basis is very comforting. I have to really think about going back to see the therapist I was seeing. I didn't really feel like we connected, or maybe I expected something else to happen.

At least it took me time. A good deal of it. For me it wasn't just the bibilcal stuff. It was the family stuff. And when you have a family, like mine, that is religiously conservative, the idea of letting go has great meaning. If can feel like one is letting go of very thing that makes us what we are because family and faith can be so tied together.

Perhaps your issues are similar. Perhaps not. Whatever the case is, you won't know what you are dealing with until you do some digging around. Could be family, could be faith, could be something entirely different that is at the root of your discomfort. Could be something that someone said when you were 6 years old and have forgotten. As such, our brains can behave as if hot-wired. It didn't happen to me, but I knew gay people at my undergraduate school (Pentecostal) that were ripped up about being gay. They would go up the altar and cry and sob. Why? They had heard all their lives that they were going to hell for most of their lives- having sat in pews from an early age. That takes a toll on one that is not so easily shaken off!

You used the word grief. I think that is one thing that isn't talked about enough when one comes out. It's not simply a matter of accepting who we are. It's also letting go of certain ideas of who we should be, not in the eyes of others, but in our own was well. And that letting go can be painful. It can be a struggle.

There is nothing more wonderful that self-acceptance- knowing deep inside one's self that all is Ok. May come in a flash of insight. May come slowly over weeks, months and years, as if a puzzle is being put together. But it will come it you root out the things that are pulling your chain. Not easy to deal with perhaps. But necessary. You and the person you love are being held captive to these ancient thoughts.

Wishing you all the best on your journey. May you have peace and more peace!

[Juls]

Thanks for reminding me Daniel that it takes time. I guess what I want is a "spiritual experience" that fixes this. I am so impatient with myself. I feel like I have been doing the work. Maybe just not fast enough to suit me. I am still reluctant to go back to therapy because I suddenly felt the invasion and self seeking was getting too heavy and off track. Seemed like I had to update the therapist on so many details of my life that I already examined and worked on. I have done a lot of that kind of stuff for years, you know like 12 steps and stuff like that. I frankly am fed up with it. I am feeling very impatient. I want God to zap me with acceptance! I want to feel a flood of love and freedom. That is why I want to mingle with folks here. I hope it will rub off on me.

[BruceChris]

But often, coming here and talking with us can be theraputic. :agree:

We care about you, your GF cares about you, God loves you, and you need to learn to like yourself a bit more. This can be hard to do, when you are among traditionally judgmental Christians, but I guess you'll have to take your support where you can get it. :)

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Rick336]

I am feeling very impatient. I want God to zap me with acceptance! I want to feel a flood of love and freedom. That is why I want to mingle with folks here. I hope it will rub off on me.

Or, you can also zap yourself with acceptance. Practically all LGBT people will tell you from personal experience that homosexuality is a perfectly natural part of who they are. You shouldn't be any more ashamed of your sexual orientation than you should be ashamed of your eye color. If a preacher or a doctor or a parent tells you any different, they are flat out wrong.


Rick

[Daniel]

Thanks for reminding me Daniel that it takes time. I guess what I want is a "spiritual experience" that fixes this. I am so impatient with myself. I feel like I have been doing the work. Maybe just not fast enough to suit me. I am still reluctant to go back to therapy because I suddenly felt the invasion and self seeking was getting too heavy and off track. Seemed like I had to update the therapist on so many details of my life that I already examined and worked on. I have done a lot of that kind of stuff for years, you know like 12 steps and stuff like that. I frankly am fed up with it. I am feeling very impatient. I want God to zap me with acceptance! I want to feel a flood of love and freedom. That is why I want to mingle with folks here. I hope it will rub off on me.

I hear what you are saying. You've done a lot of work so far. And you'd like a bit of release from the burden. Makes sense to me. Totally.

When I was a Pentecostal I believed in the numinous, the extraordinary, the peace that would come over me in a wash. And you know what? Being in love is like that. That wash of feeling that makes one feel so good. I've had that with another person. Big Love is like that.

But spiritually? That's been different for me. I can only speak for myself, but the peace that I came to regarding being gay came to me over a number of years, after I read a lot of stuff and spent time meditating. I had to find ways to deal with stress. And it may just be me, but things also changed when I set boundaries with my family. I didn't accept anti-gay behavior from them.

Case in point: I was with my first boyfriend and my mother invited both he and I to Thanksgiving. Then she dis-invited him. And that is when I said: "Either he comes or I'm not coming." And he came.

Only you can say, but you may need to think about the ways in which you are compromising yourself, not only in your own mind, but in your interactions with others.

Don't know how it is for you, but if you still believe and participate in beliefs that compromise you, then the suffering that comes with those believes can only be replicated in the future.

One thought about this: if you could stand outside yourself and give yourself advice as to what to do, what would that be? What would you do? What actions would you take?

Doesn't matter what I or someone else thinks you should do. The answers that you are seeking are inside you. Not in someone else. Not in something else. Not in your girl friend. Not in a job.

If you can get still enough to listen to your own wisdom, I think you will find the way forward, and out of the stuff from the past.

This takes courage. And I am betting you can do this.

:love:

[Jennifer5]

"What lies behind us and what lies before us, are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.":love:

[Juls]

I like the idea of doing that. I would ask myself what the heck I am waiting for? Who is going to do this for me? When am I going to take control of this journey? Don't let the fear of rejection stop me from being honest.

I recently confronted someone that had been hurting my feelings with condescending remarks. Unfortunately I had let it build up and so I snapped. I immediately was terrified that I made a huge mistake. My hands were shaking and I eyes were all teary. My first response was embarrassment. But then we ended up working things through and I felt so much better. Oh, just to be able to be honest with this person after years of swallowing my hurt and pride, what an ultimate feeling of relief that came over me. It felt very good to stand up for myself, at least after my hands quit shaking. Can coming out to the religious leaders of my past (my mom and brother) be this liberating? Can I look at the possibility of coming out to the two hardest people in my life be very liberating like this was? I really like the "no anti-gay" behavior boundary.

[Daniel]

It felt very good to stand up for myself, at least after my hands quit shaking. Can coming out to the religious leaders of my past (my mom and brother) be this liberating? Can I look at the possibility of coming out to the two hardest people in my life be very liberating like this was? I really like the "no anti-gay" behavior boundary.

In can. In fact, it can be a huge high as well as a relief.

How about thinking of this as being be your own leader, religiously speaking? After all, it's your life, not their's. And only you can live it.

I was lucky, when I called my mother on her 'act' she responded well, at least in the moment. Some don't get even this much- the homophobia can be so bad. My parents still have their generational differences which extend to how they deal with my being gay and having a husband of many years, but when I started respecting myself they did too, perhaps not as I wanted them to all the time, but they did change.

For me, this is what Gandhi meant when he said be the change you seek.

My way of saying it?

We teach people how to treat us!

[Gracie Vegas]

I have been in and out of therapy since I was 16, over ten years now so I feel your pain. I've been through so many times when I've given up on therapy only to find myself quickly spinning out of control. The problem I've had is either therapists are not at all interested in the Bible or they're trying to be James Dobson, but good ones do exist.

However, if you don't have any medical issues, bipolar, OCD, panic disorder or something that needs both medication and therapy then you're probably in a very different place than I am. I am a Christian and over the past year or so I've done a lot of reseach and study in the Bible. If you want, you can send me a PM and I'll be happy to share all I've learned with you and give you the links to some great sites that I truly believe everyone should read.

Of course, you can also just talk too. I know you don't know me, but the offer's open. If you just need to get something off your chest, just shoot me a PM. I hope you're feeling better soon.

[tdogg]

Hi Juls. Tough spot you are in. Coming out is often not easy, and never is a one-time event. Seems like coming out is a life-long process!

When I was ready to come out to my very religious step mom, I was scared s**tless. Terrified. I had already come out to my aunt (who no longer speaks to me), and I was frightened that I would lose my step mom and therefore my dad (disabled). But I knew it had to be done or I would suffer emotionally and physically.

When I finally told her, it was a HUGE relief. I was sweating something fierce, my heart pounding and scared of her reaction. But words could not describe the relief that I felt after spurting the words out. And it was kind of a spurt & sputter!

Her reaction wasn't quite as bad as I feared. But over time, she has gotten worse. After the shock wore off, and she had time to discuss with my aunt, it's been really hard for me. Heartbreaking. But I wouldn't trade coming out to her for not, that is for sure. I prefer not having the burden hanging over me, I would rather deal with her distance and coldness and judgment. I'm working on it. Maybe she is too. Either way living my life out and proud is something I could never life without at this point.

Good luck to you. I'm not sure what to say to make it easier, but trust us all when we say the relief you'll feel is SO worth it. :love::love::love:

[bnmoore]

I recently went to see a therapist to help me with my issues of accepting myself as a lesbian and a Christian. I thought it was what I wanted to do. I thought it would give me the courage to come out to my family. After several sessions all I got out of it was the same stuff I could have told myself. When I am alone with this person, telling her all about my life and what I wanted out of therapy I just feel like I am under the glass, feeling like even she doesn't really understand. I think I just need some gay Christian friends. I have been a member of Soulforce for about a little over a year and have read many of Mel White's books and feel like I am well on my way to acceptance, however I am not ready to come out to my hardcore Baptist family or Greek Orthodox extended family. I also work with two Christians and feel uncomfortable with approaching the subject there as well.


Are you comfortable with other faiths? How about non-canonical sacred texts?

Eckhart Tolle had some interesting things to say about women and gay people. http://books.google.com/books?id=sQYqRCIhFAMC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=eckhart+toole+%2B+gay+%2B+enlightenment&source=bl&ots=I6xtSo1yPr&sig=ft_Ek_4aXVJNMuFJVcvhZYZ-OJU&hl=en&ei=mr85Suy8KZqetweKganWDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA173,M1

From a more traditional perspective there's "Thunder/ Perfect Mind" from the "Nag Hammadi" sciptures:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html

It seems that many sacred texts authored by women or written in the feminine were excluded by the canons.

What I know is that God did not stop being Love to me the day I came out. Omnipresence is the same where you start, where you end up, and every step of the way between.

Sometimes it helps to remember that all is takes is "Faith as a mustard seed..."

Ben N. Moore

[awediot]

Hi Juls...

One question. What do you believe Christ thinks about your sexuality?

[Juls]

Hi Juls...

One question. What do you believe Christ thinks about your sexuality?

This question is the big one. Evidence shows that Christ doesn't care. He healed the Centurian's lover. The Bible uses the word "slave" but we know that that word was used interchangeably by the Greek and Romans to describe both a slave and or a lover. I believe that if he was just a slave, the Roman Centurian wouldn't have cared all that much if he died.

My heart tells me that Christ loves me as I am and only wants me to love whomever with honor and respect. The hard part is being willing to risk rejection by narrow minded Christians. I am not willing yet to risk that with my mom and brother. Not yet.

[Juls]

"What I know is that God did not stop being Love to me the day I came out. Omnipresence is the same where you start, where you end up, and every step of the way between."

I appreciate these words and the words of everyone that reaches out beyond themselves to help me with this acceptance journey. My best days are when I take words like this and really and truly apply them to my everyday life.

Thank you.

[awediot]

This question is the big one. Evidence shows that Christ doesn't care. He healed the Centurian's lover. The Bible uses the word "slave" but we know that that word was used interchangeably by the Greek and Romans to describe both a slave and or a lover. I believe that if he was just a slave, the Roman Centurian wouldn't have cared all that much if he died.

I'm a Christian queer myself...and gonna play devils advocate for a minute.

Classic argument is that Jesus IS God, and though He didn't mention homosexuality directly Himself, it is clear that sexual relationships with the same gender are condemned as a sin in the OT by His, and your Father... (you know this and the Leviticus/Romans clobber passages used against us)- They'd say you are grasping at straws, reading things into a minor passage that aren't there and forcing it to mean what you want it to say to justify your homosexuality... Christ clearly cares about the natural structure of the family, about love and how we make it, and about the damage lust can do...

Okay, sorry...that last part was a little me in there.

I believe that God did in fact design and create some as homosexuals, and has no inherent problem with that. I actually believe we are strangely gifted and given a unique view of the world meant to benefit it, and as such, our childhood turmoil gets (God willing) resolved, and shifts to an additional burden that the world will also not understand... I think God and Jesus more than care, are far less concerned with temporary body parts than we are, and are more interested in our other sins than loving differently...

So I do agree, but for different reasons... The centurion thing really doesn't hold water...

My heart tells me that Christ loves me as I am and only wants me to love whomever with honor and respect.Amen there... My heart told me that I'm expected to treat my lovelife as any other Christian should. The ideal of a monogamous, faithful and committed relationship makes sense and moves me just the same as any other person who understands it isn't ever "just sex" and making love within the confines of an intimate "marriage", is a sacred, powerful thing we are to cherish and protect...

The hard part is being willing to risk rejection by narrow minded Christians. I am not willing yet to risk that with my mom and brother. Not yet.Well, I'd say screw the narrow minded Christians (metaphorically speaking of course http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/inc.gif), but being that your mom and brother are apparently in that category, that's way too flippant a response... It's hard enough to buck the status quo, but being seen as shunning the God of your family is a killer... I'm sure you've heard and thought hard about the extremes where they may surprise you and be more accepting than your fears lead you to believe, or they might top your worst case scenario, give you an hour to erase any sign you ever existed in their house and write you out of sight, mind, will and memory... I'm truly sorry you've got that hanging over your head... It is a nightmare, and knowing many have endured it as well, isn't really much of a comfort.

~Please be careful not to get swept up in too liberal an interpretation of the Bible, or let the less than Christ-like actions of what passes as the Church sour you not just on them (some do deserve the ire), but turn you off to God... I've found the support on this site tends toward the effort to diminish the Christian influence and put a more anti-judgmental, relativistic spin on everything...which can convince a person Jesus just doesn't care...

Cling on to Him. Listen to Him. He will not mislead you, though you may not like where He wants you to go... Keep your guard up a little and trust in Him more than those who claim to speak for Him (including me)...

>if your interested in a more Christian based, nurturing and active site, check out GCN - the gay, Christian network (http://www.gaychristian.net/index.php?). (I'm Gamel there if you happen to pop in :))-

[Juls]

I have never been much of a touchy feely person, looking for a liberal approach to understanding Christ or the Bible. I also don't go for the atitude where just because it seems right, or feels right that it should be right. Yet, I am not a legalistic person either. I just want to know what those dog gone Greek and Hebrew words meant and how they are meant for us today. Many choose to trust the church (doesn't matter which denomination, they are all the same) to tell them what they mean. My best guess after studying, praying, and looking at them objectively they don't seem to mean what I was raised to think they mean.:eek: Which is a good thing. And sooner or later it will sink in. I hope.

[awediot]

I have never been much of a touchy feely person, looking for a liberal approach to understanding Christ or the Bible. I also don't go for the atitude where just because it seems right, or feels right that it should be right. Yet, I am not a legalistic person either. I just want to know what those dog gone Greek and Hebrew words meant and how they are meant for us today. Many choose to trust the church (doesn't matter which denomination, they are all the same) to tell them what they mean. My best guess after studying, praying, and looking at them objectively they don't seem to mean what I was raised to think they mean.:eek: Which is a good thing. And sooner or later it will sink in. I hope.

You've got a scholarly bent for exegesis and hermeneutics that tends to invoke counting the hairs on my head I didn't pull out, or trying to make a cigarette from all the old butts, just for a distraction...

CrossWalk (http://www.biblestudytools.com/)
BibleGateway (http://www.biblegateway.com/)
Blue Letter Bible (http://www.blueletterbible.org/)
e-sword (http://www.e-sword.net/index.html) (has extensive, free downloadable software of study aids.

Finding out our best, personal method to understand the bible may be as important as what we find in it... More power to ya...(let me know when anything gives you an epiphany or shock you gotta share...)