The Big Lie About Universal Health Care

[offog]

I was watching The Daily Show on Wednesday night, and one item stuck with me. It showed several short clips of people saying that government-run health care would mean government bureaucrats standing between you and your doctor. That was pretty much the wording each speaker used. It seems to be a big talking point these days for opponents of universal health care. One guy even added, "like they do in Canada." Whaaat? I'm a 50-year-old Canadian gal, and I've never had to deal with government interference in my health care.

I'm appealing to the folks in blogland to help spread the word that this talking point is totally BOGUS! Why do I care? It's all about my favorite motto: "What we desire for ourselves, we wish for all." The quotation is from J.S. Woodsworth, one of those EEEVIL Canadian socialists who was a Member of Parliament during the 1930s.

I'd like to give a couple of examples of how things really work with Canadian Medicare. Back in 1992, I found a lump in my breast. I went to my G.P. for an exam, and he referred me to a specialist. The specialist examined me and scheduled me for a biopsy on the spot. Within a couple of weeks, I was in the hospital for the surgery. Shortly after that, I got the result. (Fortunately, the lump was benign.) All I had to do to get this treatment was show my health card.

One winter morning a few years ago, I was walking to the office when I slipped on a patch of ice, fell backwards, and hit the back of my head really good. I didn't feel any dizziness, so I though I was okay. Then late in the evening the next day, I came down with a severe headache and nausea. I was worried about a possible concussion, so I called the Health Line. That's a 24-7 hotline staffed by nurses. I explained my situation to a nurse and asked if I should go to the Emergency Room. She said I should. Fortunately, the nearest hospital ER is just a few blocks from my home.

When I got to the ER, I went to the reception desk, showed my health card, and explained the problem. The person at the desk filled in a short form. I had to wait only about half an hour or 45 minutes for someone to see me. They scanned my head, told me I was okay, and gave me a couple of pills for the headache and nausea. By then, it was after midnight and I was a little nervous about walking alone that late. A staff member got a nice security guard to give me a ride home.

At no point in either case did anybody have to contact any government office for permission for exams, tests or treatment. No big long forms to fill out in triplicate. No endless sitting on hold on the phone, waiting for some bean-counter to get to my case. No having to worry about coverage being denied. Ya hear that? No bureaucratic interference!

Last year I watched the Michael Moore movie, Sicko. I saw all kinds of bureaucratic interference from the insurance company bureaucrats. One poor woman was denied coverage for her breast cancer treatment because the insurance company decided that she was too young to have cancer. Stuff like that happens all the time in the U.S., and Americans are supposed to believe that "government bureaucrats" are going to be so much worse?!

First, I'll take my chances any day with a government bureaucrat over a private company bureaucrat. If a government bureaucrat screws me over, I can at least complain to my Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) or Member of Parliament (MP), and they have to answer to the voters. Governments have to answer to the voters too. Secondly, with Canada's universal health care, government bureaucrats don't interfere with everyday health care decisions. The decisions are between you and your doctor, honestly!

I've heard opponents of universal health care talk about how health care decisions should be left to doctors and patients. Well, you sure don't get that with private health insurance. Insurance company employees will deny people benefits for the lamest reasons, and get bonuses for doing so.

Americans are the savviest consumers in the world. They don't tolerate shoddy products and service from retail stores, car dealers, or auto repair shops. So what are you folks doing putting up with this crummy service from the private health insurance companies? Come on, everybody; you're in the land of Ralph Nader!

Don't let people scare you with the "government bureaucrat" boogeyman. Tell your families and neighbors the truth about universal health care. Tell them that Americans deserve better than they've been getting. Spread the word on your favorite blogs. And tell your Senators and House Representatives that you won't be fooled by the misinformation campaigns.

[Pablo Rafael]

I have never met a Canadian who was unhappy with the Canadian health care system. Also never heard of a Canadian who would be willing to trade the Canadian system for the US system (or lack of a system).

It is interesting that the same people who are so resistant to a Canadian-like system in the US are also opposed to a German-like system in the US. The German health care system is less "government run" than our currently is.

I am one of those who is seriously underinsured. I have insurance, but the deductible is so high I will never be able to pay it if I have a serious medical problem. I am currently paying off with monthly payments a trip to the emergency room last fall - $1000.

I also get all my medication from Canada since my insurance won't pay for them. The Canadian prices for my two medications are about 25% of the US price.

I think it is criminal that 20,000 people die in the US every year because they can't afford health care.

So when people ask if I want a government-run health care system like Canada's, I say YES, YES, please, oh please, right now, if possible!

[wmanion]

Here is a letter that I wrote in response to the subject in our local newspaper:

The United States is ranked 37th by the World Health Organization for the quality of our health care system. Canada is ranked 30th. The majority of the countries that are above us in ranking do have some form of national health care. We are ranked 72nd in health care performance while Canada is ranked 35th. Our life expectancy is ranked 24th while Canada’s is ranked 12th. I would say Canada must be doing something right. Even so, we are Americans and we can do it better. I see ads running telling how Canada’s health care system is a mess and all the horror stories. Of course there are going to be horror stories everywhere, no matter what kind of health care is provided. We have our own horror stories because the doctors do not have the final say so, the insurance companies do. Our people deserve to live just as long as people in other countries. Sixty percent of the women who develop breast cancer and do not have health insurance die. The elderly are choosing between food and medicine. I am all for a national health care program but it should be the doctors who are calling the shots. Unfortunately, here in America we have decided that is is more important to make a profit out of human suffering instead of really caring about our fellow human beings.

[Emproph]

Americans are the savviest consumers in the world. They don't tolerate shoddy products and service from retail stores, car dealers, or auto repair shops. So what are you folks doing putting up with this crummy service from the private health insurance companies? Come on, everybody; you're in the land of Ralph Nader!

My mother is a slave to the increasingly-extreme Right.

The first I heard of this lie, she was telling me how Glenn Beck was saying the same thing, that somehow government run health care would take away choice. And my mother said---obviously parroting Glen Beck---that she wanted a choice, she wanted to be able to choose her doctor.

So I thought about this, and realized that the essence of their argument is that the WORST health care plan in the history of all mankind will be simultaneously so appealing, that people like my mother will flock to it in such droves as to bankrupt all American health insurance companies, thereby resulting in "no choice".

I have yet to hear the bigwigs explain how this “nightmare scenario” is going to happen, let alone the probability of it happening.

What ever happened to “No bailout!” “Let them fail on their own!” “That’s just capitalism!” ?

I think it is criminal that 20,000 people die in the US every year because they can't afford health care.

That makes this a moral imperative, truly a life and death issue.

[Emproph]

Here is a letter that I wrote in response to the subject in our local newspaper:

The United States is ranked 37th by the World Health Organization for the quality of our health care system. Canada is ranked 30th. The majority of the countries that are above us in ranking do have some form of national health care. We are ranked 72nd in health care performance while Canada is ranked 35th. Our life expectancy is ranked 24th while Canada’s is ranked 12th. I would say Canada must be doing something right. Even so, we are Americans and we can do it better. I see ads running telling how Canada’s health care system is a mess and all the horror stories. Of course there are going to be horror stories everywhere, no matter what kind of health care is provided. We have our own horror stories because the doctors do not have the final say so, the insurance companies do. Our people deserve to live just as long as people in other countries. Sixty percent of the women who develop breast cancer and do not have health insurance die. The elderly are choosing between food and medicine. I am all for a national health care program but it should be the doctors who are calling the shots. Unfortunately, here in America we have decided that is is more important to make a profit out of human suffering instead of really caring about our fellow human beings.

Wow. That was perfect---effective.

[tymejumper]

This is one of those topics that really frustrate me. I have known people from Canada, had family that have traveled through there and needed services and also have a friend in England, whos healthcare is the same basic as Canada. I try and try to explain to others that what they are hearinga bout the health care system is false in these countries.

Of course, most Americans are so darn worried about paying a bit more in taxes that they totally freak out about it and don't seem to care if everyone is taken care of from cradle to grave. To me, as a health care worker, I get so frustrated that I have to clear therapy through insurance carriers and then they tell me that I can only help the person get to the independance level they were not to where they can be. In other words: If a person was able to feed themselves before they came to me for therapy and can not do this any longer because they had a stroke, then I can only get paid for returning them to their prior level of function. Even if I can help them to become independant and learn to cook, and clean and I can adapt their environment to help them....they will not pay for it. I can not make someone MORE independant thatn they were.

This is thanks to American insurance companies. They don't want to save money by insuring that people are as independant as possible and can actually take care of themselves. They want to pay for them to get to the minimum level and then worry about it later. How stupid is that? Only in America I tell you.

I would so gladly pay extra for insurnace and health care for all people. Then if you got laid off, you would not have to worry. Also, our elderly would be taken care of. And the main point people are missing, the reason we have to make so much more money to bring home is because we have all kinds of health care we have to pay out of pocket for. If we just paid extra taxes, then the money we brought home in our paychecks would be all ours. We would only have to worry about housing and food and fun with that money. Not use up to 50% of our checks for health care. It would all out in the wash.

Sadly, I don't think that people in America are good at thinking outside of the box.

[tdogg]

Universal healthcare is not a bad thing. i know people in Canada and Scotland, and they love the care they get, the response in getting seen and treatment. I've heard from a couple of naysayers, namely one Canadian who claims the health care system in Canada sucks. However, she was unable to provide specific examples of how it sucks.

There is no excuse for a country such as ours to not have a health care system in place. Insurers are getting rich of health care costs, yes they can and do deny many claims, and folks are not able to get treated. Those, like Pablo, who have insurance but extremely poor coverage are the worst off.

I have good insurance, Kaiser, but I cannot choose my own physician. I can get on a waiting list for one of my choice, but the chances of being that MD's patient, ever, are slim. Also, I can't always get the care I need, although some of the care has been excellent. Much of the care is treating symptoms instead of getting down to the cause. I'm prone to sinus infections and subsequent bronchitis, and it takes me months to completely recover. I've had my MD deny my request for inhalers, instead telling me to buy over the counter cold medicine and kick it myself. That doesn't help me breathe! But still, it's good insurance compared to other plans.

We have a huge problem with health care all the way around here. MD's getting kickbacks from drug companies. Costs skyrocketing. Insurance companies getting rich and not paying claims. Universal health care is not only a good idea, we desperately need it. The complaints against it are due to those investing in drug companies and MDs making huge salaries, of course they don't want that to change. With a Capitalist system, it's more about the money and not so much about helping people get healthy.

[offog]

People have made some really good points in their posts.

I had had forgotten about that argument that universal healthcare would mean higher taxes. Uh, huh. And the "extra" taxes are gonna be more than the premiums for private health insurance? I don't think so.

I'll never understand this mentality where people are OK with paying sky-high prices for private insurance, but go postal at the thought of paying just a little more in taxes. I've seen all kinds of articles saying that Canada spends less GDP on health care than the U.S. does. That's because the Canadian system has lower bureaucracy and administrative costs.

This reminds about the old conservative arguments from the 1990s about why things were so much better in Alberta than in Saskatchewan. Mostly it was about how Alberta had no sales tax and lower income tax. I talked about this once with my buddy, Kerry, who was working for a Saskatchewan cabinet minister. Kerry said sure, the average family will save about $800 or $900 per year in taxes if they move to Alberta. But then they pay about $800 or $900 per year in Medicare premiums. We don't have Medicare premiums in Saskatchewan. Somehow, a lot of people don't count Alberta's Medicare premiums as taxes.

Medicare makes things easier for doctors too. For one thing, the doctors don't have to worry about getting paid. They can also spend more time doing actual patient care, instead of spending half their time fighting with the insurance companies to get their patients coverage for needed care.

[Pablo Rafael]

Canada has siginifcantly lower health care costs than the United States. The US system is the most expensive in the world and still leaves a large percentage of its population without healthcare or with inadequate health care.

And I agree totally about the taxes. I would gladly pay my $160 a month insurance premiums (plus my current monthly emergency room bill) in taxes to have universal healthcare.

But even if universal healthcare was MORE expensive, it would still be preferable to just allowing lower income individuals to suffer and die. Some things should be avaliable to everyone regardless how rich or poor. Education and healthcare are two of those things. I totally agree with Emproph; it IS a moral imperative.

[awediot]

Canada has siginifcantly lower health care costs than the United States. The US system is the most expensive in the world and still leaves a large percentage of its population without healthcare or with inadequate health care.

And I agree totally about the taxes. I would gladly pay my $160 a month insurance premiums (plus my current monthly emergency room bill) in taxes to have universal healthcare.

But even if universal healthcare was MORE expensive, it would still be preferable to just allowing lower income individuals to suffer and die. Some things should be avaliable to everyone regardless how rich or poor. Education and healthcare are two of those things. I totally agree with Emproph; it IS a moral imperative.

Pretty scary when "consumerism" begins to swallow it's own tail, and we don't know how to stop it...

[tymejumper]

Yeah, it's people choosing between their taxes and someone elses life. How sad.:'(

[awediot]

Yeah, it's people choosing between their taxes and someone elses life. How sad.:'(

With all the **** our taxes go to support, the LIFE of the downtrodden and poor ought not even be a debate.

[justanotherpagan]

With all the **** our taxes go to support, the LIFE of the downtrodden and poor ought not even be a debate.

Sadly, the lives of the poor and downtrodden will never be important enough to some to warrant even the loss of the price of their morning Starbucks.

[awediot]

Sadly, the lives of the poor and downtrodden will never be important enough to some to warrant even the loss of the price of their morning Starbucks.

Maybe it's just natures way of keeping the population under control...:eek:

[tymejumper]

Its interesting that we had a discussion of this type at work today.

My boss feels that we should not reward people who do not plan for the future and who do not work by not paying for their healthcare bills. He said if we let some people who do not work hard or save enough die, then they would learn to work harder, not be a slacker and not work expecting the system to take care of them. They would learn that if they dont take care of bussiness they too could die.

My point: we are all entitiled to simple and basic things, such as shelter, food and health care, to not help others with these things proves we are not caring creatures and are no better than animals. This is not the survival of the fittest. I also explained that we are all connected and even if we do not admit it, things affect us indirectly.

My other co-worker said she did not want to pay out 50% of her check for generations of people whom live and stay on welfare and medicaid when she has to work to survive. I guess she did not consider people that lost their jobs and can't find work because of the economy as people that actually need help at this time.

I don't know where the middle ground lies, but something needs to be fixed, cause health care is broken here in America.

[wmanion]

Do you know what Irks me about the whole thing. It is when it comes to health care the Have's definitely do not want to share it with the Have Nots. What they are failing to see, is that they are all ready paying for universal health care, but at a higher cost. When Sally (I don't have it) goes to the emergency room for health care and does not have the means to pay for it, that cost is being transferred to Bob (Its mine and you can't have it), thus making all the Have's health bill's higher. Meanwhile, the big business of medicine is pocketing record profits at the expense of poor Bob who thinks that he is one of the privileged because he belongs to the Have's when in reality he is being robbed. Additionally, it reminds me of the true sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, which was being inhospitable. The Have's had plenty but did not want to share.
okay I am stepping down of my soap box.

[nmwolfboy]

In the corporate media blathering on this subject, the lie that gets on my last gay nerve is "universal health care (or the public option) will lead to rationing of your health care" as if we don't already ration health care in the US. It just gets rationed according to the size of your wallet or bank account now. i'd much rather we had a system wherein care was rationed on a sound medical basis rather than a profit motive.

Senator Bernie Sanders (VT) has a petition on his website regarding the need for universal health care. He's also soliciting stories about folks' experiences with insurance companies and health care delivery systems. He's reading those stories into the congressional record. Just google his name and you'll find his website. Add your voice, add your stories.

[offog]

From tymejumper
"My boss feels that we should not reward people who do not plan for the future and who do not work by not paying for their healthcare bills. He said if we let some people who do not work hard or save enough die, then they would learn to work harder, not be a slacker and not work expecting the system to take care of them. They would learn that if they dont take care of business they too could die."

I have a big problem with your boss's attitude myself. What is it with this assumption that everyone works in jobs that allow them to save for the future and pay health care premiums? I guess the unspoken assumption is that if you can't find work due to the economy or a disability, or you work in a dead-end low-paying job, you're a slacker and loser, and don't deserve to survive. It's part of that whole social-Darwinist, law of the jungle mentality. Pretty scary, eh?

I also have a problem with the "I got mine; screw you" mentality. My sister, Karen, and her partner, Bruce both have well-paying professional jobs and don't mind paying taxes to help pay for Medicare and other public services. I really admire them for that. A few years ago, the Alberta government gave all its citizens a rebate cheque because of higher than expected oil revenues. Those payments were popularly known as Ralph-bucks, after then-Premier Ralph Klein. Karen donated her Ralph-bucks to the Calgary food bank. Why can't more middle-class people be like that?

[Emproph]

This was on the Rachel Maddow show (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32850414) last night.

Billionaires Take DC: The Movie

x1I9xsV-g9Y

http://www.billionairesforwealthcare.com/

[antiochian]

I've not followed this debate in great detail, but I support universal healthcare personally. At this time in my life, I don't dare enter a physician's office unless I'm bleeding, bloating, and bulging, and even then I hesitate, because I know a doctor bill and paying for medicine may mean not being able to pay university tuition, or to buy groceries. When I watched the documentary Sicko a while back, it moved me deeply. Here we are, a "Christian" nation, and we can't/won't even give all our citizens the privilege of seeing a doctor when they're sick.

That the Christian Right continues to oppose universal healthcare and spread such nutty misinformation only makes me... sick. They say Obama wants to let the old people die, which isn't true. Apparently the Far Right has no problem letting the poor people die, though. So much for their pro life b.s.

It's my understanding that the proposed system would be similar to that of France, which apparently ranks high in the World Health Organization.

[tpdncr4christ]

My point: we are all entitiled to simple and basic things, such as shelter, food and health care, to not help others with these things proves we are not caring creatures and are no better than animals. This is not the survival of the fittest.

Tyme, you make a really good point. What you illustrate is a belief in equal condition, one that many other countries do have. In America, the majority believes in equality of opportunity, not equality of condition. That's why so many people have trouble with sanctioning Universal Healthcare, they still believe that people should have equal opportunity, not equal condition.

I would like to put aside the debate for how we are going to fund health care and would ask why are we paying so much? As a society we've accepted the fact that big pharmicudical companies can make huge profits using patents and other legal restrictions to reduce competition. An average stay at the hospital can reach into the thousands of dollars for one person. Why aren't we concerned with driving those costs down? We are all trying to figure out who's gonna foot the thousand dollar bill when no one's asking why the hell is it so expensive?

Another thing that I think of when people talk about health care is where is the preventative healthcare? Our entire system of health care is based on treating symptoms of diseases we have already experienced. Why aren't we funding research and advertising ways to live a healthy life? We have an epidemic of obesity in this country and very little is being done about it. We die of diseases of excess, and yet we insist on going to the doctor after our hamburgers and milkshakes have given us heart attacks. I think we should focus more on preventing illness and making healthy decisions to live a healthy life.

Yet, I understand the need for health coverage. Why we let someone who lives down the block from a hospital die because she can't afford the treatments to keep her alive astounds me. We live in a country with the greatest technological advances on the planet and yet we let people die and go on being sick, when we can cure them, because they cannot afford to live. Call it what you may, but not helping people who need to be helped is, in my mind, criminal.

[andrewlittle]

There are several incidents I could use for examples on the need for universal health care, but this one should suffice.

I recently had some blood tests done. The hospital billed the insurance company its usual and customary charges, which were $522. By the terms of the negotiated agreement with the hospital, the insurance company approved $52.66 of the charges and discounted the rest. My part is a piddling $13 of the $52.66.

My point here is that a person without insurance would be billed and expected to pay $522 for these tests plus (in New York) something called an "indigent fee", an additional surcharge for uninsured people. Those without coverage would need to pay ten times the price that the hospital agreed to take from an insurance company.

This is not the first time I've been struck by this type of practice. In 2000, when I was uninsured for a period of time, I had a hernia repair. After the fact, I found out that a friend's insurance company (the friend had the same surgery 2 months earlier) had paid $1800 for all the costs of the surgery. They paid another $200 as their part. My bill, becuase I was uninsured was $12,300. I managed to negotiate this down to $5000 becuase I knew my way around a corporate structure, but it was still 2.5 times the price an insurance company paid. Other people would be stuck with charges that were 6 times the insurance rate.

This is why uninsured people do not seek medical care early. By the time they do, the situation may be more complicated and expensive anyway. Universal healthcare would at least level the playing field.

[BruceChris]

(OFFOG) And I support everything she says.

BC

[Daniel]

Andy's point is well-taken.

About 8 years ago, my husband was hit by a car as he was crossing the street. It threw him 20 feet. He's very lucky he wasn't killed. He didn't have insurance at the time. And the trip to the emergency room cost over 2500 dollars for what turned out to be a very bad bruise on his calf which meant walking on crutches for 4 weeks. I can't imagine what it would have cost had his injuries were extensive- a broken leg- internal injuries- multiple day stay in the hospital.

This is way so many people have to sell their homes, go into bankruptcy (if they can get it- laws for filing are much stricter now thanks to Mr. Bush and Congress!), or unfathomable credit card debt which they can never get out of.

The crime here is greed. Unadulterated greed on the part of insurance companies which offer no treatment, no service, no product to speak of. They are middlemen who make a profit on the suffering of others.

This jaded New Yorker thought he couldn't be shocked, that is, until he read that one insurance CEO was paid more than 8 million. For What? Making sure that the shareholders get their money.

Universal health care won't happen until Congress gets serious. Really serious regulating an industry that does nothing but serve its bottom line.

[offog]

Thanks to the people who've responded recently. I really didn't expect to get more responses after all this time. Sorry about not checking in earlier. I've been busy working in a by-election campaign for the last 4 weeks, so I've been neglecting my "blogging duties." (A by-election is a special election to fill just one seat. My Provincial Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) stepped down in June so that our new party leader could run for a seat.)

The stories people are telling here really scare me. I've been watching news coverage of the American health care debate, and I'm amazed that so many people are more afraid of "socialized medicine" than they are of the system they have now.

Andrew's story really appalled me. The health care system does sh*t like that to people and then wonders what's with the push for health care reform. Uh huh. So you have trouble scraping together money for your health care, and now we're going to punish you further for being poor.

One complaint that's come up is that private insurance companies can't possibly compete with a government-run insurance system, and would go out of business. Tuff noogies, guys! If you weren't charging sky-high prices for lousy service, you wouldn't have to worry about that! Besides that, Canadian private health insurance companies are doing just fine, providing supplementary coverage.

And this business with alleged "death panels"??! What a load of bull! Providing end-of-life counselling is not about deciding to "pull the plug" on anyone. It's a humane thing to do. I guess part of the reason for the hysteria is that our society doesn't want to talk about death and mortality. For example, a lot of people won't make wills out of fear of "jinxing" themselves, even though passing away without a will causes all kinds of problems for the people left behind.

My Mom had the guts and sense of responsibility to make a will and a living will about ten years ago. One reason was that she didn't want to be kept alive by machines if things came down to that. She didn't want to end up lingering for years in a vegetative state. Right now she's in a nursing home with dementia. She's also in a wheelchair. Her mind has been going on her for several years. We can still have good discussions about politics and such, but her mind is going to keep getting worse.

Mom is aware that her mind is going, and I know she wouldn't have wanted to end up this way. She would have preferred to have one big stroke and go quickly. So one day I explained to her what a "do not resuscitate order" is, and asked if she wanted me to arrange for that. She thought about it for a week, and said yes.

Giving the people the option of making that decision doesn't mean that we're going to arbitrarily decide that certain people are not worth keeping alive. If you want any and all measures taken to keep you alive, you can arrange that.

I'm going to make a living will myself when I can afford it. The thing I'm most afraid of is ending up lingering for years with dementia or Alzheimer's. So I'm going arrange things so that I get a "do not resuscitate order" kicking in if I end up with a condition where my mind deteriorates.

BTW, another thing that should go into a living will is a provision that you get enough medication to keep you comfortable. Mom's lawyer recommended that. Doctors tend to undermedicate for pain because they're afraid you might pass away sooner, and then the family will sue the doctor.

I'm pleased to see so many people getting in on this discussion. Maybe Americans will finally get a proper health care system, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the opponents of health care reform.

[BruceChris]

You will find out that it is $2.5 TRILLION dollars. That is $8,200 dollars for every man, woman, and child in this country.

What National Health Care will do, among other things, is take about ONE TRILLION DOLLARS out of the pockets of some very nasty people. And don't expect them to be polite about it.

The crime is not that we are trying to change the system, the crime is that we have let it go on this long.

Bruce Chris

[BruceChris]

He had traveled around the world studying what he considered the countries that he believed had reasonable and workable national health care.

In those countries that had medical insurance companies, they ALL had non-profit companies.

No, Bubba, we're not going to kill off granny.

BC

[Emproph]

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Funny or Die, Inc..

Thanks for the link (see below) U-dog, I figured it would get pulled, but not so fast. :(

[offog]

Wow, Emproph! Great bit of satire there! Did I see Will Farrell in there? I think I also saw that guy who plays Hiro in the "Heroes" TV series. If so, it's nice to know that he's a real-life hero too.

Thank you so much for posting that.

And thanks again to all the folks who posted here. I posted threads on this issue at 2 other web sites, but this is where I got the best response. People at Soulforce rock!

[offog]

I just watched that video with the mock "Battle Hymn" about standing up for the insurance companies. Totally brilliant!

Thanks for posting that!

[u-dog]

You can view it here: http://pol.moveon.org/insurance_execs/?rc=homepage

[Emproph]

October 27, 2009 2:39 PM (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/27/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5425530.shtml):

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said Tuesday that he would support a Republican filibuster of a health care bill that includes a public option.

This is from some time ago, but note the last square/rectangle:

http://www.thismodernworld.com/arc/2006/TMW11-08-06colorlowrescopy.jpg

Brought to you by:
http://www.thismodernworld.com/arc/2006/TMW11-08-06colorlowrescopy.jpg

See here (http://thismodernworld.com/newest-comic/) for more of Tom Tomorrow's hilarious cartoons.

[drobs]

Have and have nots? Please...

Here's my issues with it. I work for a living. Why should I have to pay for someone that doesn't?

Seriously, while working back in the states there were days that I would go grocery shopping and barely have enough money to get a few necessities, while these people on WIC are filling up 3 shopping carts full of food.

They are sitting on their butts doing nothing, having things handed to them, while I work my butt off for what I have.

I don't buy into in to that.

[Pablo Rafael]

Drobs, I take somewhat of an offense when you talk about poor people sitting on their butts doing nothing but taking from others. That is a prejudicial stereotype.

Sure there are people who have taken advantage government handouts, but I look around me and find that most lower income people like myself are hard working. We are not just sitting around. President Clinton's welfare reform bill really helped put an end to a lot of that abuse.

Health care and education are two things that are essential to everyone in a fair and just society.

Face it, there are haves and have-nots in our society. Statistics show that the gap between rich and poor is ever widening. Now I have no problem with people making money, but I do have a problem with people who make more in an hour than I make in a year. There is something just not right about that.

Being a Christian I see all throughout the Bible a strong emphasis on the wealthy carrying some of the burden for the poor.

[BenL]

Being a Christian I see all throughout the Bible a strong emphasis on the wealthy carrying some of the burden for the poor.

And the poor having a special place in God's love!