Bi-sexuality, revisited

[BruceChris]

It is my proposition that many people who call themselves bi-sexual do so because they are learning that they have a different kind of sexuality, they haven't yet figured out what it is, but they want to make a statement about it.

A link to the post from 3 years ago, "Your thoughts/musings/questions on bisexuality", started by Zerbie: -- (Now correct address)

Hey, ya gotta check out this post. It's got some great reading, a lot of vintage Zerbie, and one of Poetic's very first posts.

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-741.html

It went on for 3 pages, and contained a lot of people's observations. It makes interesting reading, all by itself.

There was a time in my life when I was hanging out with a bisexuality group called BECAUSE. The acronym, and other information can be found here:

http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1457233/

It was my impression that the people that I was meeting had all different kinds of sexualities. They seemed to be from almost anywhere on the human sexuality map. Or as they put it:

The BECAUSE Conference is the premier weekend for bisexuals, queers, questioning, and all others who are neither one thing nor the other.

I notice that one of our members who joined Soulforce at about that time, who was looking for a way to break it to his parents that he was bisexual, is now trying to come to terms with being a MtF transsexual.

So I believe that the proper response to someone who says that they are bi is not "Oh, you must be either gay or straight, you can't be both". but to have an understanding that this person is in the process of finding out just what they are.

Or,it is not so much that our sexualities that are determined before birth, but the path that our sexualities will take, that was predetermined.
Thoughts?

Namaste', Bruce Chris

[Poetic Awakening]

Ha, great thread. Brings back some old memories! And it looks as though I had it all a little more together than as of late.

I would say with my experiences in the past three years, that bisexuality is more or less a fluidity for me. Some days I am attracted to women, some days not. But on the off days, I can't say I am raging with male fantasies, either. That is to say, sometimes it's both, sometimes it's one, and sometimes it's neither. But I chalk those last sometimes to just a bad day. :lol:

However, as I am the one you're talking about being originally someone who thought my orientation was bi, and then later realized a lot of what I was feeling wasn't JUST orientation, I can see where the water gets a little muddy. I am definitely more confused now than I was then, three years ago, but when it comes to Bisexuality, I can safely say in my case, that it doesn't make the married life all too easy when you have a wife who feels insecure about the fact of my liking boys. She knew before we went on our first date, but I think we both might have wished it to be a phase. So we fell in love and married, and I don't think I ever lost male attraction. It came, it went, but I just put it with my attraction to females... as in I felt it, but that doesn't mean I have to act on it. I am satisfied in being married to someone I love.

Well, I did ignore it for a spell, but throw in the military for the cause of that. And the drama of being injured and discharged for it, transitioning from an active, working, contributing member of a relationship to the "house-wife", if you will, and my recent admission of being a transsexual, and we have a very confused bisexual in a marriage with a wonderful woman, but who is straight and sees no future with a transitioning mtf transperson.

So I guess my case is different than most, but I figure I'd spill my thoughts on the topic just to keep this going. It really is interesting to hear other people's thoughts. :D

[BenL]

Setting gender identity and/or expression aside and limiting my response to sexual orientation ...

In my experience, people who self-identify as bisexual fall into three major categories. Of course, there are myriad variations within and between each. Human sexuality is a wondrously varied thing.

1. Transitional bisexuals. People who accepted a label for themselves publicly but who privately have become dissatisfied with it as describing them accurately. This group especially contains people who find it difficult to ID as gay or lesbian exclusively. Sometimes that's because of religious or social background. Sometimes it is in recognition of a loving relationship, even a marriage, that the person wants to honor.

2. Either/or bisexuals. These people find themselves equally attracted to men or women, but for them it is not so much the body as the entire package, including personality and soulfullness, that is attractive. These bisexuals include a large contingent who are happy living with a single person of no matter what sex.

3. Both/and bisexuals. These people find life a little more difficult because they are attracted to both men and women, and neither one alone can satisfy them. Some engage in serial monogamous relationships, going from men to women as people come into their lives. Others have multiple lovers simultaneously, some in polygamous relationships, some on the sly. Others are part of polyamorous love circles that include both men and women.

As I said, there are multiple variations of these three groups, and many bisexuals fall between them in some way. I think bisexuality is the least understood communities under the LGBT umbrella. They operate under a prejudice held by both straight and gay people that says that you can't have both but that you must choose one or the other attraction.

In the interest of full disclosure, I consider myself a gay man married to a transman.

[Gennee]

One comment that disturbs me is when bisexuals are told they can't be attracted to both sexes. Right then they are being pigeoned-holed. Gender is fluid and so is sexuality. Each person has different attractions.

Gennee
:)

[ByeBye]

I just told my mom about my bisexuality. She is fine with it. I love that she can be so open minded and non-judgemental.:) I knew she wouldn't outright reject me but I didn't want her to find me disgusting. Of course, that would be her problem if she did. I feel good about it so I know it's a step in the right direction.

As far as my bisexuality, I have felt that way since about as long as I can remember. But, if I had to choose between a gorgeous guy and a gorgeous woman, I'd pick the guy. If I had to choose between an ordinary guy, and a gorgeous woman, I'd probably choose the woman. Also, I'm attracted to most things considered "wrong". I have all kinds of fantasies but some things I would never do in real life either because they are just too gross for me personally or they are against the law.

Sometimes I wonder if I could go through with an actual encounter with another woman. Not to offend anyone, but I don't like the way women naturally smell down there. But if a hot woman was coming on to me, I might be turned on enough that the smell wouldn't matter.

I just wanted to add, "What is normal? There is obviously no such thing. Everyone has their eccentricities or whatever you would like to call them."

[BruceChris]

It's called a hot shower, with soap, and a washcloth. Would you go out on a first date with someone you were attracted to, if you hadn't had a shower, for too long? Let's hope they wouldn't either.

And you are at a learning age. Learn what you can.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[tymejumper]

Sometimes I wonder if I could go through with an actual encounter with another woman. Not to offend anyone, but I don't like the way women naturally smell down there. But if a hot woman was coming on to me, I might be turned on enough that the smell wouldn't matter.



I know of many lesbian identified women whom do not like oral sex, they think it is gross to do. So, that is not as unusual as you may think. I also know of lesbians whom have sworn off toys of any sorts. Having boundries does not mean you can't be a sensitive and thoughtful lover.

[tymejumper]

It's called a hot shower, with soap, and a washcloth. Would you go out on a first date with someone you were attracted to, if you hadn't had a shower, for too long? Let's hope they wouldn't either.

And you are at a learning age. Learn what you can.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

Actually woman(and men) who are clean do not have a nasty smell. I was very concerned that I would not be able to perform oral with a woman when I first came out, even though I was very attracted to them. Happily, I found that not to be the case!:D

We are taught that genitals are dirty and especially women, whom menstrate, are taught that they smell. Men are so darn proud of their penis, women are so darned ashamed of their vaginas.

Sorry for the derail.........

[BruceChris]

So Tyme, don't tell me that you've never heard of Venus Envy?

And I think that vaginas are totally awesome.

BC

[tymejumper]

So Tyme, don't tell me that you've never heard of Venus Envy? I think that vaginas are totally awesome.

BC

LMAO, no I have never in 40 years heard of that one! LOL LOL The most fun I had with the whole word was an app called "fun with vaginas" on Facebook. That's where there are a whole bunch of movie titles and one word is replaced with 'vagina' For instance, I sent one to my co worker at the nursing home that said "No vaginas for Old Men" . Instead of 'No Country For Old Men'.:lol:

[BruceChris]

"Venus Envy" is (A), a way of reminding Sigmund Freud that we don't have to take him all that seriously, and (B) a book by Rita Mae Brown, that I read many years ago.

Also, being a member of Facebook, I notice that there is a membership there that call themselves Vaginas. They even have very pretty costumes, tastefully trimmed with a border of *public* hair. (Spell checkers will do that to you.) Look them up.

BC

[BruceChris]

There was a storm in Orlando, Fla., some years back, that rendered a theater marque as follows: "CUNT EASTWOOD", (the wind had pushed the L and the I in Clint together, to form a U.) Now I the film playing was a spaghetti western. I forget whether it was "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly", "A Fist Full of Dollars", or "A Few Dollars More", but I can see where this sort of "fun" app. could get totally out of hand.

BC

Moderators: If I am exceeding the bounds of good taste, please remind me.

[tymejumper]

Yeah, it could start to get sketchy....but I am still laughing about it all! :D

[ByeBye]

BruceChris, I am talking about a woman's natural vaginal smell. A woman can clean down there all she wants but she can't get rid of that natural odor. I should know, I'm a woman. Women's vaginas smell just like tuna in my opinion, and I don't like that smell. I guess men think women smell great or they love the smell of tuna or both.:lol:

[tymejumper]

BruceChris, I am talking about a woman's natural vaginal smell. A woman can clean down there all she wants but she can't get rid of that natural odor. I should know, I'm a woman. Women's vaginas smell just like tuna in my opinion, and I don't like that smell. I guess men think women smell great or they love the smell of tuna or both.:lol:


All jokes aside and to be completely honest, as a medical professional, if a woman smells like fish, she probably has a bacterial infection brewing. A woman should never, never, never smell like that. In fact, that is what Gynecologists also check for when a woman has a checkup. They ask "did you notice an odor? Was it fishy smelling or bread like?"(indicating yeast infection). It helps them narrow down what tests to do.

If you have been with a woman that smelled like that, then she had an infection and may not have known it. I can certainly understand why you would think all women smell like that down there. They should not. If you have anything but a slightly sweet, soft musky odor, you need to get your butt to a doctor right away and get treated. If your lover has an odor like that, you need to direct them to a doctor as well. I have been very lucky to never have to experience that type of thing. How embarassing for both parties.

[BruceChris]

And I guess I've never had any such experiences.

BC

[celestial_rain]

bisexuals have kind of been given "the short straw" if you will-they are often the scape goat for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. But from my experience (although maybe hasn't been as long as some people, but I've still seen a great deal) many bisexuals are already "transitioned" and are fully attracted to men and women. I can see why some people think a person should only be attracted to one gender or another, but if a person is attracted to both it doesn't necessarily mean they are confused. Several of my friends are bisexuals, yet they are completely happy in their monogamous relationships.
On the other hand, other bisexuals are just in a transitioning stage, and some are really homosexual but are afraid to admit to it. I don't really think we can make a broad statement like that; bisexuals are just as unique as any other orientation.

[ByeBye]

TymeJumper, I don't know what to think because I always smell that way, and I get very regular gynecological exams. The doctor never found anything wrong. Also, a woman I used to know said she hated the smell of tuna because it "reminded her of a woman's crotch".

I do thank you for your concern and information, however.

[tymejumper]

Bye Bye, I am not bothered by frankness at all.


Rain, You are correct that we can't paint all bisexuals in the same light. My bisexual friends are monogomous, more so than some of the str8 and lesbian friends I have.

Bruce, I have never had that terrible misfortune of having a bad smelling woman, however, I have had oral with a few men who smelled rather gamey.....:eek:

[BruceChris]

Shouldn't be allowed to go online, drive a car, make a phone call, or own a credit card.

Or leave the house, for that matter.

Especially if their parents did not did not believe in the Covenant of Abraham, if you get my drift.

Bruce Chris

[ByeBye]

I wash thoroughly everyday, with a washcloth, thank you very much. My husband has never complained at all. In fact, he wants to be intimate practically every day of the week.

I have never actually done anything with a woman, either. I've only fantasized. I just know how I smell when I am intimate. I even asked the gyno if that was normal to smell that way (during intimacy) back when I first seen a gyno. She said that the exam showed nothing abnormal, and that she was not concerned.

I just thought that all women (when they get intimate) smell that way. As I said, that elderly woman had said she didin't like the smell of tuna because it smelled like a woman's crotch.

BC, I came on this site so I could try and come to terms with my bisexuality, not to be accused of not bathing properly. I wanted some support from the bisexual community, maybe I need to look elsewhere.

[tymejumper]

Bye Bye, I don't think BC was trying to imply that you didn't bathe. I think he was replying to my post about 'gamey men'.

In reguards to bisexuality: Just because you are Bi does not mean you can't have a good and fufilling relationship with your husband. You don't have to have a girl on the side. All that bisexuality implies is that you are capable of finding emotional and physical fufillment with either sex. It does not mean you have to date both, that you have to sleep with both or you that you ever have or ever will.

I really struggled when I came out, I was married over 15 years and finally could not take being closeted any longer. I was unsure if I was Lesbian or Bi. I knew I had had crushes on women and desired them, but I had always dated men and had sex with them. The community around here was not very supportive of Bi women and many lesbians would not even look at me twice because I stated that I thought I was Bi. Some were really mean about it also. I think many Bi people on this site can attest to the way some of the community receives Bi people. I ended up going to several years of counciling and desided that I am actually mostly lesbian. Notice I say mostly lesbian, not "I'm a lesbian". I was told by my therapist that 10% of the population is completely str8, 10% gay, and the other 80% fall on a continum of less or more str8 to gay. That actually means that sexuality is a very fluid thing. It also means there is no consistant way to identify Bisexual and gay people other than they are attracted to their own sex. How's that for confusing? It confused me!:lol: Also, I came to understand myself as wanting emotional and physical intimacy with women, feeling fufilled by them, but I still notice a good looking, sexy man.

I hope your husband is supportive of your feelings. It may help you to go to a therapist for a few visits and even read up on some books. There are many good books by and for Bisexual people out there. If you hit Barnes and Nobles sites and also Bing or Google Bisexual, you can find some really good chat groups. I love Butch-Femme.com. It's open to everyone that is gay. They have a great Bi section to post in there also.

In order to accept you being Bi, it will take time and realizing that the lable means nothing. If you are happy and love your husband, then it does not matter if you are attracted to women. You chose him and you love him. You found the one you needed to find.

Much Metta

[BruceChris]

I had never wished to imply that you had anything to be concerned about. I guess I got a little carried away verbalizing about "other" (?) peoples behavior. As I said, I havenever encountered this concern in anyone that I have met personally.

You sound a bit like Tyme says she was, before she had some experience. You of course have a husband, but I suspect you can only learn what you need to know through experience. Is it possible for you to meet in any bi-women, where you live? This has gone from a Bi discussion, to a bi-women's discussion. I started it, but I guess I'll give you women some space. (I just now saw that Tyme posted while I was typing)

Peace and love, Bruce Chris

[tymejumper]

This has gone from a Bi discussion, to a bi-women's discussion. I started it, but I guess I'll give you women some space. (I just now saw that Tyme posted while I was typing)

Peace and love, Bruce Chris

Hey now, you're very welcome to post about being Bi. We love to have a males view on all of this. I think being Bi in the gay mans world could be a bit different than in a womans world. It always seemed to me that males were way more accepting about bisexuality than lesbians were. The guys I met were very cancic and seemed ok with it all. So fill us in!:love:

[BruceChris]

But I still have roots in the LGBT and feminist communities. I've long been active in Minn NOW. EDIT: My church is an offshoot of the local MCC church. The closest that I have ever come to a committed relationship when I was gay-active was the 3 years that I spent with Lynn, who grew up as Alan.

I generally feel much more at home with gay men than str8. In my heart of heart, I would say that I feel a lot in common with lesbians, but it is usually easier to just pass as a str8 guy. And of course I always find tomboys attractive.

Most of what I am relating has to do with what I have learned by observation, and when I was active in bi groups. I suppose I was one of those who was as yet undefined.

Some experts claim that women can be more truly bisexual than men can. They probably have a point there.

Peace, Bruce Chris

[celestial_rain]

wow, thats a highly amusing way to put it :lol: and thats competely true...proper bathing should be pretty high up there on the list of necessary things to do before leaving the house

[ByeBye]

It's okay BruceChris, I forgive you. I am very happy with my husband. I got a winner when I picked him!

[ByeBye]

Thank you for your reply, tymejumper.

[tymejumper]

Thank you for your reply, tymejumper.

You're very welcome. I just hope my pain can be a source of comfort or help to someone. It makes it seem more worthwile if it served a purpose. :)

[BruceChris]

http://www.feministing.com/archives/018085.html

http://www.zazzle.com/proud_owner_of_a_vagina_feminist_hat-148251465083434682

Bruce Chris