The upcoming holidays

[tymejumper]

Asking for advice.

Last year I got married to my wife and my father, grandmother and brother did not attend as they didn't approve. Well that was August, and at Christmas time, various emmebers of my family stopped by with gifts and cards. Great. My brother managed to include my wifes name on the card at least, and the gift card. My father on the other hand only put MY name on the card and gift and completely negated my new wifes presence.

I wanted to return the gift and card then and there, but my wife requested that since it was the holidays, I let it go. After all, he had been polite to her and he had come to see his grandchildren, she didn't want it to end on a poor note. My wife rarely, if ever requests anything, unless she feels very strongly about it, so keeping this in mind, I let it go.

I have been unable to feel good about myself and have felt over the cousre of this year that I was untrue to my vows, untrue to my love and untrue to myself. I am not by nature one to just let someone slap someone I love in the face and been able to live with it.

I also feel that with the amount of time my father has known I am a lesbian, he either has to shit or get off the pot. This means that he needs to place my wifes name on corespondance, gifts and cards given at Christmas, or these items will be returned and he will be requested to place her name on it as it obviously was forgotten. If he refuses, he will be shown the door. Simple and to the point. I refuse to let him and my grandmother tromp all over my wifes good nature by making her feel 'less than' and that she must accept this type or behavior. It is NOT acceptable to me.

I have not exactly told my wife what I plan to do yet this year. I guess I really don't want her to tell me it's not a fight worth fighting, or that they will never accept it and I should be happy with the fact they are nice to the kids or 'please don't make a scene'. If I accept this treatment of her, it will set a precedence and it will be a nightmare to ever stop.

So, do I tell her, or just go and do it and hope for the best? I am unsure what to do at this point that will do the least damage. If I don't stand up for her, as I seriously take to heart I should, then I accept them hurting one of the people I love most in this world. I accept them telling me and her that she is not good enough and our marriage is wrong and I am untrue to myself. But, if I do it, she will feel sad that I had to do it for her and that she is not worth it, all the giving up I have to do. Like it's a problem for me or something. I value her beyond measure and it's about time I show her in my book. Any advice on how to proceed? :'(

[bnmoore]

The family I was born into pretty much lived in denial about my sexual orientation and ignored it. I adopted another "Family" as an adult. There are 20 to 30 of us that meet for dinner the Sunday before Thanksgiving and again on the Saturday before Christmas. One of us is the pianist at a restaurant that's closed on Sunday's and we take over the space.

Working in television I can usually use the "I can't come, I have to work" line. I don't take the traditional family oriented holidays off. I got sick of the "We like him, we just don't like him for you" bit.

Conditional love is bullshit and I don't have to be around it.

I will say one thing. I've never felt closer to my brother than I did at my Mom's funeral. I don't think I had ever considered that we had the same mother until that day. His way of dealing with it (which I actually learned from my sister-in-law) was to move to the opposite end of the country.

Love them and let them be who they are and do the same for yourself.

[Zerbie]

Definitely do not keep this from your wife. You are contemplating an ultimatum to members of your family, and your wife is now part of that family, plus the matter under concern is about her. Tell her how strongly you feel about what happened last year and that it's still bothering you, and how much.

Sit down together and try to brainstorm whether there are other choices besides accept the neglected name on gifts, or the ultimatum. Maybe a friendly loving chat with your dad about how you feel about him having 'forgotten' to include her name on the card? I don't know your dad or your relationship with him, so maybe you can and maybe you can't do that. But I strongly feel it would be a bad idea to issue an ultimatum to your family members about your wife without letting her know about it. She's a big girl and she knows your family has issues. Let her in on what you decide to do. I suggest the two of you decide on a course of action together.

[Daniel]

You could do something as simple as send your father a note letting him know that you would appreciate it if he would include your wife on all Xmas cards and the like. That way, it gives him a heads-up. It also signals in a clear way how you want to be treated rather than being in a position where you are reacting to whatever he chooses - or not- chooses to do. It's a proactive stance. Now, if he chooses to disregard your request, you'll need to think about what you will do.

We teach people how to treat us.

Keeping your wife in the loop is a good idea.

[Rick336]

I also feel that with the amount of time my father has known I am a lesbian, he either has to shit or get off the pot. This means that he needs to place my wifes name on corespondance, gifts and cards given at Christmas, or these items will be returned and he will be requested to place her name on it as it obviously was forgotten. If he refuses, he will be shown the door. Simple and to the point. I refuse to let him and my grandmother tromp all over my wifes good nature by making her feel 'less than' and that she must accept this type or behavior. It is NOT acceptable to me.


It's obvious your dad is having a hard time with your marriage to your wife. Look at the world he was born into and it's easy to see why. Most of his life he was probably told that homosexuality is a sin or abomination or sickness or some other insane nonsense. His belief was probably supported by his church, his family, his friends, and probably everybody he knew. For him to suddenly do an about face and embrace it as loving, healthy, and normal is probably a huge and difficult change for him.

I understand your frustration. I've been there. You love your spouse and it hurts you to see your father not accept her as one of the family. You feel that he has had plenty of time to accept your life and you are running out of patience with him.

But keep in mind that change can sometimes be slow. And remember that the message of Christmas is about love and peace and forgiveness. Returning an unopened gift to your dad is the opposite of that message. It will most likely create more hurt feelings, anger, and resentment and could spoil happy memories of Christmas 2009.

Your post didn't say whether your wife gives your dad a gift at Christmas. Imagine if she gave your dad a gift this year, something that she picks out herself, that comes only from her, not from the both of you. Chances are this will melt away a lot of his stubbornness and I almost guarantee that Christmas 2010 she will be included on the name card.

Try this and see what happens. Take the high road and forgive your dad for his flaws. Kiss him on the cheek and tell him that you love him. The Christmases that you and he have together are numbered. Don't throw them away.

Rick

[bnmoore]

I neglected to mention it in my prior post. I got the most heart-warming, beautiful birthday card from my Dad. It went on and on about how proud he was to have me as a son and how much he loved me. He actually asked me what was going on in my life. I got all weepy and picked up the phone and called him. We talked for a couple of hours. I think I had assumed a burden that didn't completely exist as far as disapproval goes. Even though I have been out for 33 years I still think I suffered from bad son guilt. Dad's 82. Those that love you do notice your absence.

[BrianB]

Tymejumper, communication is always better in a relationship. This sounds too much like going behind your wife's back without letting her know. I feel like you should discuss this until you are both happy with a mutual decision. Let her know how important it is to you that your dad at least acknowledges how very significant she is to you. Then you can present a united front to your dad. OTOH, do you really want to fight a war at holiday time?

[tdogg]

It took me 45 years to finally accept myself as a lesbian, and to actually love that about me. I try to remember that my family members have had about five years so far...it's going to take a while.

It's frustrating, and yes it pisses me off sometimes. And it hurts me very much. Progress is slow, actually there hasn't been much progress in those five years. But after staying away and uncommunicative for over a year, i recently visited my stepmother and father, who were both overjoyed to see me. It was a much different visit than the one prior. Yes, my wife is still not welcome or even discussed yet. But I'm trying to be patient and understanding, and trying to always come from a place of love for them.

It is love that will eventually triumph over this (sometimes too late). Try to be kind, compassionate and patient. Know that they have had much less time to 'come out' than you have. You must work with your wife on this for the sake of your relationship. You can still stand your ground, but I believe you must speak to and be honest with your family, letting them know how much you love them, how much their actions hurt and what your hopes and expectations are. Ultimatums are rarely as effective as we think and often end up hurting you more than those you give the ultimatums to.

Seriously though, I do feel your pain, and I'm not always successful at the above. More often not. But it's something I strive for anyways, and sometimes successful at. My wife is very supportive of me in this, isn't too bothered by the exclusion at this point (and we discuss it often), and actually encourages me to do more with my family than I do. It hurts too much to be there without her, so I don't see them very often.

[tymejumper]

Thanks for all the replies. I had eventually planned on talking to my wife about this, but I have not found the oppourtunity to do so and probably being a bit of a procrastinator. I guess I was more interested in how the rest of my Soulforce family handled the same situation. Believe me, I know I am not the only one out there going through this.:rolleyes:

Although I do not like to fight over the holidays, my children are now old enough to know, and point out, that they are offended by the fact that Grandpa and Great Grandma do not see their new family as a true family.

I have really thought about how I want to approach this and what I can give and still stay true to myself. I can not feel good about myself and let them discount my wife. I can't. I will not allow this to continue and for her to feel pushed aside in this manner when her last relationship she had to be closeted the whole time. It would minimize me after a while if I continue to not stand up for her.

Daniel: I did like the idea of sending a letter to my father to let him know of what I expect. I think that could work very well.

Brian: I don't want to fight over the holidays, but unfortunately, my family puts the fun in dysfunctional, so no matter if this is handled with tact or not, it may result in a holiday problem.

bnmoore: I am so glad that you got you happy ending! It works for some of us, it gives me alot of hope. Thankyou for sharing.

Rick: I do forget that change is slow and I guess I expect my father to move it along a bit. I do try to keep that in mind, really. You sound like my wife!:lol: I had to have someone to ground me, because as much as I try it is very hard for me and I stumble down the path these days....

Tdogg: I hope that things work out for you and your family. I am glad that your wife is supportive, but sorry that your heart hurts so much. I don't know where you get your strength from.

I'll have to keep you posted on what happens.

[BrianB]

Honey, I understand about dysfunctional families. Only one of my mom's siblings had a halfway successful marriage...even then my uncle smoked pot every day to cope. It sounds like your family likes to back you into a corner. If you have to fight a war during the holidays hopefully you will be united with your partner in how to fight. Here's hoping it works out for the best!

[bnmoore]

my family puts the fun in dysfunctional

I've used exactly this same phrase to describe mine. The dysfunction seems to expand with larger family reunions. I have several cousins (male and female) that are also gay.

Everybody be trippin'.

It may not be all that much fun during the event but I usually wind up laughing about it after I get home. ( at my own behavior also)

[tymejumper]

I just wanted to let everyone know here what happened at the holidays.

I was worried that my fathers side of the family was going to ignore my wife and had prepared myself for the worse reguarding that. However, I was pleasantly surprised when my brother, then father and garandmother all came over to our home and visited and chatted with my wife! When we exchanged presents, they had put her name on everything including the card and my father and granmother had chosen to give my wife a seperate girt! I was stunned and shocked that they did this. I guess that goes to prove that God works in mysterious ways.:D

[drobs]

I just wanted to let everyone know here what happened at the holidays.

I was worried that my fathers side of the family was going to ignore my wife and had prepared myself for the worse reguarding that. However, I was pleasantly surprised when my brother, then father and garandmother all came over to our home and visited and chatted with my wife! When we exchanged presents, they had put her name on everything including the card and my father and granmother had chosen to give my wife a seperate girt! I was stunned and shocked that they did this. I guess that goes to prove that God works in mysterious ways.:D

Good to hear! My family took a little time to adjust be my partner. They are starting to come around. Took a few years.

[Rick336]

I just wanted to let everyone know here what happened at the holidays.

I was worried that my fathers side of the family was going to ignore my wife and had prepared myself for the worse reguarding that. However, I was pleasantly surprised when my brother, then father and garandmother all came over to our home and visited and chatted with my wife! When we exchanged presents, they had put her name on everything including the card and my father and granmother had chosen to give my wife a seperate girt! I was stunned and shocked that they did this. I guess that goes to prove that God works in mysterious ways.:D


This is great news. :) I'm glad things worked out so well for you and your family and that y'all made some happy memories of the holidays '09.

Best wishes for the New Year ahead.

Rick