a thought on gay pride

[celestial_rain]

So, I've noticed that so many times those of us who are homosexuals are just as bigoted as everybody else. Like the other day at school I saw a guy wearing a "straight pride" hoodie and I was just so angry. But then I paused for a minute....if I'm allowed to have gay pride, then who am I to say that heterosexuals can't be proud of being straight? sure, he probably wore it as an insult to homosexuals, but I'm not going to let the bother me. So many times I only think about the rights I don't have because of being a homosexual, but that doesn't mean that I have any more right to pride than they do. How often do we get angry at heterosexuals for being proud of who they are? They were also made by God and can love who they are just like I can. Maybe if we all made an effort to stop getting angry at people for just being themselves we could make more progress.

[bnmoore]

So, I've noticed that so many times those of us who are homosexuals are just as bigoted as everybody else. Like the other day at school I saw a guy wearing a "straight pride" hoodie and I was just so angry. But then I paused for a minute....if I'm allowed to have gay pride, then who am I to say that heterosexuals can't be proud of being straight? sure, he probably wore it as an insult to homosexuals, but I'm not going to let the bother me. So many times I only think about the rights I don't have because of being a homosexual, but that doesn't mean that I have any more right to pride than they do. How often do we get angry at heterosexuals for being proud of who they are? They were also made by God and can love who they are just like I can. Maybe if we all made an effort to stop getting angry at people for just being themselves we could make more progress.

Namaste, blessed be, and so it is, amen, and effing-A to that. Everyone is equally holy. Recognizing that is a good place to start.

[keltic63]

everyday is straight pride day. perhaps he was wearing the hoodie to remind himself to keep his eyes on the girls, not the boys :p

[kara speltz]

Approximately a dozen years ago or so, I convinced my parish pastor to celebrate a gay pride Mass in June. His initial reaction was a little skittish at first and then he said, "couldn't we name it something else, because pride is one of the 7 deadly sins." I didn't have an immediate answer for him, but a couple days later when I was repeating the story to a black lesbian friend of mine, she came up with the perfect response. She said, "Pride is only a sin for straight white men, for the rest of us it's a necessity."

To this day, after a dozen years of celebrating our June Gay Masses, I still have to laugh and to agree.

Kara

[Rick336]

This isn't an argument for or against "straight pride" or any other kind of pride. But just for the sake of debate, I'll toss this into the mix:

If we say that both gay pride and straight pride are okay, then what about black pride and white pride? Are they equal and therefore deserving of our respect?

Rick

[celestial_rain]

If we say that both gay pride and straight pride are okay, then what about black pride and white pride? Are they equal and therefore deserving of our respect?

Rick

I believe so...my point was that everyone should be proud of who they are and not feel ashamed to say so. I'm white, I'm proud of that, I have black friends and they are proud of that. I think being proud of who you are is a good thing, as long as it doesn't make you look down on those who are different than you. Pride isn't the problem, its prejudice.

[Alecto]

Pride has multiple definitions, and that's where the problem comes in. Of course straight people should be proud of who they are and should be proud of their accomplishments, and their ability to love themselves. That often isn't nearly so difficult for straight people as it is for queers though.

"Gay pride" is about rising above the messages we've grown up with in society that say that we should be ashamed of ourselves, stay closeted, that we can't be happy and will end up dying of AIDS, hate crimes, or suicide. "Straight pride" tends to be about how awesome it is to be straight and have privilege and how being straight is SO awesome, in fact, that everyone should probably do it. I've NEVER heard a straight advocate of straight pride give an argument based in anything else yet; if I did, then yeah, maybe I'd be ok with it.

[Pablo Rafael]

It is easy for a person that faces discrimination to forget that he also can fall into the trap of having a bigotry of his own. I think we all need things that will keep us humble. We probably won't like them, but a lot of learning is uncomfortable.

However, I think there a big difference exists between the oppressor and the oppressed. For whites to have a "white pride" (for lack of a better term) event is much different from blacks having a "black pride" event. Whites have the advantages and the wealth and the power in our society. Supporting "black pride" is an effort to bring equality to our society. A "white pride" event would have as its purpose the strengthening of the hand of the oppressor.

The same could be said for supporting the rights of women. Men don't need to fight for their rights; we already have the majority of the power and wealth in our society and in our churches.

Therefore "gay pride" has the goal to even out the inequalities in society. "Straight pride" seeks only to give the ones in power more of that power.

When blacks and hispanics have as much wealth and influence in our society as do the whites, then I would not be offended by a "white pride" statement. When women are even with men, I will not be upset my a "male pride" day. And and when LGBT individuals have the same rights and respect as straight individuals do, then I will find a "straight pride" hoodie inoffensive. Until then there is still work to be done.

[Rick336]

It is easy for a person that faces discrimination to forget that he also can fall into the trap of having a bigotry of his own. I think we all need things that will keep us humble. We probably won't like them, but a lot of learning is uncomfortable.

However, I think there a big difference exists between the oppressor and the oppressed. For whites to have a "white pride" (for lack of a better term) event is much different from blacks having a "black pride" event. Whites have the advantages and the wealth and the power in our society. Supporting "black pride" is an effort to bring equality to our society. A "white pride" event would have as its purpose the strengthening of the hand of the oppressor.

The same could be said for supporting the rights of women. Men don't need to fight for their rights; we already have the majority of the power and wealth in our society and in our churches.

Therefore "gay pride" has the goal to even out the inequalities in society. "Straight pride" seeks only to give the ones in power more of that power.

When blacks and hispanics have as much wealth and influence in our society as do the whites, then I would not be offended by a "white pride" statement. When women are even with men, I will not be upset my a "male pride" day. And and when LGBT individuals have the same rights and respect as straight individuals do, then I will find a "straight pride" hoodie inoffensive. Until then there is still work to be done.

Very eloquently said. This makes perfect sense. Thank you Pablo, for explaining the differences.

Rick

[bnmoore]

On what is right judgment based that makes haters hate? By any name are we not all animated by the same spirit? Or made of the same energy taking form? I maintain that it's all one thing. If I want to call it the mind of god then there is no place where anyone else ends and I begin. I have my individual use of it but am not separate from anything or anyone. The connection is never severed just the belief.

Poppa may not know best but I know what works for me.

[tymejumper]

I think that pride for everyone is great. I have no problem if someone has pride for who or what they are. I also think as LGBT people, we need to be aware of our own predjudice against straights, ie Heterophobia.

For anyone out there that remembered Queer As Folk, Brian Kinney was a shining example of a gay person with Heterophobia. He quoted several times on the show that no straight person likes a gay person, unless they're dead. He overlooked the straight allies he had and focused on the bigots. This is just as wrong for us to be predjudice against straight people as it is for them to be that way against us. As long as this exsists, we won't be able to get very far ahead in our fight for equality.

[antiochian]

First off, kudos to the priest for having gay pride masses. I do hope the powers that be won't give him any trouble.

Human diversity should always be celebrated. If there can be Irish pride, deaf pride, or pride in being "a coal miner's daughter" or "an Okie from Muskogee," why not LGBT pride? I'd also like to find a T-Shirt that says "Proud to be Somewhat Overweight." Screw Dr. Oz! Pass the curly fries! (Perhaps they could kill me. So could the elephant at the zoo if it escapes.) Why should I be made to feel less worthy for not being straight, conservative, and a model?

Society makes us hate ourselves. For victims of oppressed minority groups, pride is a survival skill. Those who don't learn it end up killing themselves literally or over a period of years, drowning in self-loathing waters.

Last of all, Pablo is right on. I wholeheartedly agree.

[Rick336]

Pass the curly fries! (Perhaps they could kill me. So could the elephant at the zoo if it escapes.)

Thanks. Now I'll lay awake in bed tonight worrying if the fence at the zoo is strong enough.

Rick:lol:

[tymejumper]

Hey, you can go to Cafepress.com and make a shirt to say anything at all. So there ya go. Just sayin.......:D

[scott snedeker]

So, I've noticed that so many times those of us who are homosexuals are just as bigoted as everybody else. Like the other day at school I saw a guy wearing a "straight pride" hoodie and I was just so angry. But then I paused for a minute....if I'm allowed to have gay pride, then who am I to say that heterosexuals can't be proud of being straight? sure, he probably wore it as an insult to homosexuals, but I'm not going to let the bother me. So many times I only think about the rights I don't have because of being a homosexual, but that doesn't mean that I have any more right to pride than they do. How often do we get angry at heterosexuals for being proud of who they are? They were also made by God and can love who they are just like I can. Maybe if we all made an effort to stop getting angry at people for just being themselves we could make more progress.

Sometime I find things that anger me to be opportunity for me to examin my pain, fear and ignorance. If someone wore a "SMURF PRIDE" t-shirt I would smile and maybe Giggle

A "White Pride" T-shirt would make me very uncomfortable because I am "white" and was raised with racist teaching in rural Virginia. Some of that teaching still manifests in my impressions of people. When I become aware of my predjudiced feelings and attitude I feel embarassed and guilty.

I am grateful for the opportunity to be made aware so that I can also be aware of where these feelings originate. by meditating on my feelings I can introduce compassion to the whole situation.

I focus on Compassion for the young boy (me) who was taught to dehumanize people of African Heritage. Compassion for the people who I surrogated the violence of this teaching either knowingly or unknowingly. Compassion for myself today who feels the guilt and embarassment. Compassion for my father who maintains this inner violence even more strongly than I do.

By doing this exercise I can now feel compassion for the person wearing the "white pride" or "straight pride" t-shirt if they are wearing it because of emotional or spiritual violence done to them.

Or even humor if it is done to communicate a teasing affirmation reflected. A kind of "I'm cool with your "gay Pride" so let's just lighten up and poke a little fun at the whole honmophobia thing and let go of these stupid feelings and predjudices and get back to having fun!

[bnmoore]

Or even humor if it is done to communicate a teasing affirmation reflected. A kind of "I'm cool with your "gay Pride" so let's just lighten up and poke a little fun at the whole honmophobia thing and let go of these stupid feelings and predjudices and get back to having fun!

That goes along with my universe as playground affirmation just fine. Our homework assignment in class this week is to play.

[RedneckDyke]

People can wear whatever hoodies they want. I would like for the hoodie to be made in America by union workers and not made in China by enslaved kids or fulan gong people.

[scott snedeker]

People can wear whatever hoodies they want. I would like for the hoodie to be made in America by union workers and not made in China by enslaved kids or fulan gong people.

You are such a Redneck!:eek::lol::love:

[RedneckDyke]

:love::lol::love:

[BruceChris]

Now, go and discuss that for a while.

BC

[bnmoore]

For me the distinction between hubris and spiritual self-confidence is humility. Isn't hubris number one on the list of seven deadly sins? If someone's self-esteem is based on their own piety they most likely got nothin'. Is there a distinction made between prayer from a saint at their alter or a drunk in the gutter?

[scott snedeker]

Now, go and discuss that for a while.

BC

Hubris in my understanding comes from a root contraction around a limited sense of self. This means "I know that I am a worthless piece of crap and I am going to gratify my pain by making someone else feel more worthless than I do." By doing so I transform from victim to victor."

Hubris uses the assumption that a rapist makes that he is entitled to violate another human being there by going from the lowest ranking human to being above his weaker victim who now exists only for the purpose of this dark grudge-f--k gratification.

Hubris in spiritual practice employs a similar assumption getting its orgin from a root contraction around being "sinful by nature" and similarly gratify this inadequate limited sense of self by making someone else feel more worthless by using religious teaching.

This type of hubris is in the more Classical Greek sense of the word where a mortal falsely claims godly entitlement to judge or abuse.

Self Esteem originates from a comfort with one's self and confidence in worthiness of one's primal spirit as good and valued. Because of good self esteem one see's what one likes in one's self reflected in others. This generates attraction, warm feelings and compassion to other people.

Good self esteem for me comes from opening my awareness to my capacity to love in unlimited ways. I am part of the pattern of life and nature. I am a nexus of phenomenally organized life force connected to the basic primal vital energy that I cannot even begin to characterize but am dazzled by!

[Saru]

As Big Gay Al on Southpark so eloquently put it:

If I have the right to display my homosexuality, they have the right to not agree. (something like that)


I find that happening to myself, but for me its not so much bigotry as it is hypocrisy. It grinds my gears when people judge me when they first meet me, but unfortunately I do it quite often.

[NathanATX]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/24/straight-couples-civil-partnership-application-rejected/

They want civil unions because it's a modern, sensible plan for a relationship and "divorce" is much less icky than for marriage. (my summary)