Hello, Still Struggling

[Rayn]

My name is Ryan(I just felt like reversing the two letters for my screename because I couldn't think of anything). I'm a 20 yr. old Catholic and find much of the Soulforce resources to be helpful. I'm still unsure about the Catholic stance that the gay community must abstain and be celibate. It's very understandable where they are coming from. However, it just bothers me as to why our Loving God would give us these normal, human, sexual attractions and feelings and then what am I supposed to do to reject it? I have found this link from exploring the links Soulforce has provided.

http://www.fallwell.com/neighbor.html

I actually found that resource from the Epistle magazine, which I also have found to be very resourceful.

It's been quite a long time since I have not been at mental peace with accepting who I am and moving on in my life. Thank you for anyone who reads and responds!

[BenL]

... I'm a 20 yr. old Catholic and find much of the Soulforce resources to be helpful. I'm still unsure about the Catholic stance that the gay community must abstain and be celibate. It's very understandable where they are coming from. However, it just bothers me as to why our Loving God would give us these normal, human, sexual attractions and feelings and then what am I supposed to do to reject it?


Kinda counterintuitive, don't you think?

I grew up a Catholic, even went into a religious order for a while. It was years before I could accept my sexuality as a God-given gift and not a plague. I'm no longer a Catholic. I'm active in the Episcopal Church, which feels like home now, but even here heterosexism is rampant.

I think the Catholic Church, indeed all of Christianity, is forgetting one of its deepest spiritual traditions around celibacy. The church always maintained that celibacy is not for everyone, but is a special calling for a few. There's no way I can reconcile that teaching with the position that all gay people must be celibate. Of course, the Catholic Church regards gay sexual relationships as sinful while saying "being" gay is not sinful in itself. Huh?

Ryan, I hope you can arrive at a place of peace where you can thank God for creating you as a gay man. Then you will be able to claim it as a blessing which flows out to enrich the lives of others.

Welcome to Soulforce. Welcome home.

[Pablo Rafael]

In all the years I have gone to the Catholic church I have never heard anything anti-gay. Though I now an a member of the Episcopal church, I still am a musician at a Catholic church. There is a great diversity in the church from the almost fundamentalist stance of the Vatican to very affirming congregations.

I agree with you. A real weakness of the celibacy requirement for gays is that it allows the straights apply restrictions to gays that they do not impose on themselves. Also the church believes that celibacy is a gift given to some, not all. To make celibacy a requirement negates the whole concept that it is a gift.

I think a lot of people and a lot of churches are held captive by the past. It is really hard to get people to look at something in a different way when the old way is ingrained in their minds. People believe what they want to believe. I had that struggle in my own mind. Thankfully I am now very much at peace that being gay is pleasing to God and is the way he has created me to be.

I wish you well, my friend.

Pablo

[Gennee]

Hello Ryan and welcome. When you can accept who you are then you will find peace. Also there's no place in scripture that says celibacy is required to live a holy life. My friend wrote in the Epistle about 'Homosexualty and the Bible'. I pray that you can reconcile your faith and your sexuality.

Gennee
:wave::love::love:

[Rayn]

Hi all, Thank you so much for the feedback. I know reading my post kinda seems a little awkward. I might seem to look like some sort of sex addict or something because of being uncomfortable with the celibacy part, LOL:lol:. But just to make things clear, I'm concerned with this issue just to be comfortable with my sexuality, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. A relationship and stuff like that are the farthest things from my mind right now, and I am just trying to make some sort of inner peace with myself(something I am sure all of you my GLBT brothers and sisters can relate to).

[kara speltz]

I'm still unsure about the Catholic stance that the gay community must abstain and be celibate. It's very understandable where they are coming from. However, it just bothers me as to why our Loving God would give us these normal, human, sexual attractions and feelings and then what am

Dear Rayn: I am also Catholic. I left the church for about 20 years and have been back for 20 years. I suppose some might call me a "cafeteria catholic." Because there is much that the Church teaches that I do not accept. One of them that I disagree strongly with is their position on birth control. The Church has always been screwed up when it comes to sexuality. They've based much of their teachings on St. Augustine who led a very permisculous life in his youth and then repented and came to a place where he believed that sex was ONLY for procreation.

I'm copying below, a beautiful piece written by former Methodist minister Jimmy Creech. Jimmy is a straight ally who was defrocked for celebrating same gender marriages. I firmly feel that Jimmy's take on same gender love is right on target.

Kara

We Are Born To Be Lovers
by Jimmy Creech
October 2003

We are born to be lovers. We are not meant to be alone. Basic to who we
are as human beings is the instinct to reach out from ourselves to care
for, nurture, empower and protect those we love; and, it is basic to each
of us to desire and accept the care, nurture, empowerment and protection
from those who love us. To love is to be connected, to be in a mutual
and equal relationship others. Out of such love grows intimacy,
friendship, marriage, family and community.

Our love is embodied. Our sexuality is the physical, intellectual,
emotional and spiritual capacity to give and to receive love. Having
affectionate feelings for another is not enough. We cannot love
intimately and truly without our whole selves, without our bodies. Love
must be physical as well as emotional, intellectual and spiritual.

The capacity to love is not just a gift from God, it is God's presence
alive and active in our very beings. We embody God when we love. To be a
lover is what is meant when we say we are created in God's image. To be a
lover is to know God. There is no such thing as an unholy love.

Love knows no boundaries, no barriers, no limits. It is the nature of
love to push us out of selfishness, fear and ignorance to overcome
boundaries and barriers in order to love another person.

Love is free without restraints. Loving someone intimately is a human
right that cannot be regulated by law, religion or culture. There is no
government, no religion, no cultural custom that has the authority, the
power to tell us who we must love intimately. And, there is no
government, no religion, no cultural custom that has the authority, the
power to tell us we cannot love someone intimately because of her or his
race, ethnicity, religion, class, family or gender. To love someone
intimately is to be connected to that person on a deep and spiritual
level that defies and ignores all social categories and classifications
of people.

Let no one tell you that your love is unnatural, immoral, unhealthy or
sinful because your love does not conform to their prejudices and fears.
Love between persons is more than normal, more than wholesome: it is
divine.

Trust you love. Believe in it. It is love that makes a marriage and a
family, not government and not religion. Honor your love as precious and
innately holy. Don't wait for others to honor it. Your love does not
depend upon someone else's approval or acceptance. And, the more you
honor your love, the more others will understand your love and honor your
love.

Trust your love. Believe in it and you will change the world!

[Rayn]

Thank you so much Ms. Speltz. I guess I just need some time to absorb everything from this thread so I can build more inner peace. I guess I would call myself and my family "cafeteria" Catholics as well.

[alphie]

thanks Kara for posting the Jimmy Creech statement - I had not read it before. He is right on!! When he was on trial I thought "you know what our rules are, why are you doing this" Now that I am an out Methodist, I am very upset that he was defrocked. He is right - we are not supposed to be alone. I am grateful to God that He made me a lesbian and that I have someone that I love.

[Rayn]

thanks Kara for posting the Jimmy Creech statement - I had not read it before. He is right on!! When he was on trial I thought "you know what our rules are, why are you doing this" Now that I am an out Methodist, I am very upset that he was defrocked. He is right - we are not supposed to be alone. I am grateful to God that He made me a lesbian and that I have someone that I love.

I wish someday I'll be at your stage.

[NathanATX]

Hey Ryan,
Instead of wishing and hoping for a someday when you'll be at peace, let today be the day.

It's all about acceptance and grace.

It takes courage to receive. It takes courage to let go of the old ways of thinking. It takes courage to have hope that maybe, just maybe God does delight in you, that God made you as you are, and that God loves your socks off.

The miracle peace you want is available simply by having the courage to accept the possibility of your goodness, your worth and your importance to God.

"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you the future you hope for."

"Before I formed you in your mothers womb, I knew you."

"I have come that you might have LIFE and have it more abundantly."

:love:

[Rayn]

Hey Ryan,
Instead of wishing and hoping for a someday when you'll be at peace, let today be the day.

It's all about acceptance and grace.

It takes courage to receive. It takes courage to let go of the old ways of thinking. It takes courage to have hope that maybe, just maybe God does delight in you, that God made you as you are, and that God loves your socks off.

The miracle peace you want is available simply by having the courage to accept the possibility of your goodness, your worth and your importance to God.

"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you the future you hope for."

"Before I formed you in your mothers womb, I knew you."

"I have come that you might have LIFE and have it more abundantly."

:love:

Thanks =/ I guess.

[BenL]

Ryan,

Nathan's message was both beautiful and comforting, but I understand your hesitation, your "I guess." Others can share their experiences, even show you a way to spiritual health and wholeness. But until you tread the path yourself, it's difficult to believe that those goals can be yours.

I, too, grew up Catholic. I'm now in the Episcopal Church. I don't feel that I changed my faith, so much as my human affiliation with a human institution. Whether you go to church or subscribe to a church's doctrines doesn't guarantee peace and a sense of belonging. I found that I had to give myself over to the process of seeking without reservation, without predetermined conclusions, without worrying about where it would lead me, but being confident in the process and the results. Some would call that grace.

To do that, a person has to believe in himself/herself; believe in a core goodness or worth. And that's hard for those of us who are gay when so many people in positions of authority are constantly telling us we aren't worthy. Your true path may end up being the one you grew up in with deeper understanding ... or it may end up being a path that's totally new to you. Trust in the process. Don't be afraid to seek, to ask, to explore, and don't be afraid of the truths you might come to discern. Nathan's message says essentially that God believes in you and asks why you then shouldn't believe in yourself too. I know: harder to do than to say. But I'm convinced that it's the only way.

I myself once thought that I was doomed because I was gay. I now thank God that God made me the way I am. I have come to see that being gay is a gift and that it is part of what makes me who I am.

Don't let others overwhelm you. You've got within you the seeds of your own faith and understanding. Trust in yourself. God does.

[NathanATX]

Hey Ryan,
Here are some things you can do to take care of yourself and get what you need for this journey.

1. Be around loving & affirming people.


At an MCC church www.mccchurch.org
At an affirming UCC church www.ucc.org
At a Parents, Friends of Lesbians & Gays meeting. www.pflag.org
At a political or social justice organization that is affirming to lgbt people. Does your area have an LGBT center?
In online communities like the Soulforce Forums and the Gay Christian Network www.gcn.net.

2. Educate yourself silly.


Watch these videos here on the Soulforce webpage. http://www.soulforce.org/videos
Go to www.whosoever.org
Go to www.truthsetsfree.org

[Rayn]

Hey Ryan,
Here are some things you can do to take care of yourself and get what you need for this journey.

1. Be around loving & affirming people.


At an MCC church www.mccchurch.org
At an affirming UCC church www.ucc.org
At a Parents, Friends of Lesbians & Gays meeting. www.pflag.org
At a political or social justice organization that is affirming to lgbt people. Does your area have an LGBT center?
In online communities like the Soulforce Forums and the Gay Christian Network www.gcn.net.

2. Educate yourself silly.


Watch these videos here on the Soulforce webpage. http://www.soulforce.org/videos
Go to www.whosoever.org
Go to www.truthsetsfree.org


Thanks, I have already done much online research, but some links here I think I haven't seen yet

[Rayn]

=( Truluck's website is down

[kara speltz]

=( Truluck's website is down

Rayn: Please read Psalm 139, remembering that God has always known you as you were created to be and that you are wondrously made. Thinking positively and focusing on gratitude are learned habits. I recommend you read the psalm daily and keep a "gratitude journal" so as to move past the negativity into the light that God has in store for you. Each day find three things to be grateful for, whether it's the warm sun, the sound of a bird, the smells after a rainfall. All of these are the daily gifts God sends our way each and every day. It's all about changing the "lens" we have to see the positive in our lives.

Kara

[alphie]

Kara is right - Psalm 139 has helped many of us. please read it - read it out loud - it really does help.

[jeorjet]

hello i am jeorjet I am newbie here.I like to share my knowledge with you.
Thanks.

[Rayn]

I would like to thank all of you who have replied and given support. However, I think I want to actually meet someone now. Further then reading just text on this website, I feel it is time I really want to meet someone who can help me the same way you all are helping me here. Where should I go?

[dsdrane]

I would like to thank all of you who have replied and given support. However, I think I want to actually meet someone now. Further then reading just text on this website, I feel it is time I really want to meet someone who can help me the same way you all are helping me here. Where should I go?

Sorry I'm late to the party. If I'm remembering correctly, you're 20 and in MD, yes? Are you anywhere near Baltimore or Washington, DC?

In addition to what Nathan wrote, I would also encourage you to check out ELCA Lutheran and Episcopal churches; their liturgies are very similar to Catholic liturgies...and might be that little extra something that makes you feel more comfortable showing up. Most -- but not all -- parishes give you some indication that they are welcoming by what they choose to place on their websites, so doing a little homework is always advisable. That said, I don't want to put too fine a point on it, because I would hope every parish would be welcoming...we just want them to be extra welcoming. I don't know about the ELCA, but something like 70% of current Episcopalians were not born Episcopalians...they came from somewhere else, many of them Catholics. Staying in the Catholic church, however, doesn't mean you don't have allies, as I believe Kara has spelled out. I have no end of admiration for those who feel they want to stay and fight for what is theirs...more power to them!

Religious venues aside, there are plenty of social/political groups that have and attract voices -- gay and straight -- to fight the good fight...especially at your age, whether you're in school or not. Find the ones in your area and take part. Having something in common with someone before you meet is a better bet than meeting in a bar ("not that there's anything wrong with that"). But I also know you're not just talking about dating...or maybe you are? Either way, whether you're looking for love or looking for a friend, having something in common can only help.

And remember something else: as much as you've struggled, others are struggling more. You've found people here willing and eager to share some experiences and wisdom with you...you are just as capable of passing that -- and your own -- along to others who need to hear it. It can easily sound "cheesy", but: be the change you seek.

And, for all that's holy...have a blast doing it! After all, we're funnier and smarter and more attractive (that was God's gift to us...keep it under your hat).:love:

[Rayn]

Sorry I'm late to the party. If I'm remembering correctly, you're 20 and in MD, yes? Are you anywhere near Baltimore or Washington, DC?

In addition to what Nathan wrote, I would also encourage you to check out ELCA Lutheran and Episcopal churches; their liturgies are very similar to Catholic liturgies...and might be that little extra something that makes you feel more comfortable showing up. Most -- but not all -- parishes give you some indication that they are welcoming by what they choose to place on their websites, so doing a little homework is always advisable. That said, I don't want to put too fine a point on it, because I would hope every parish would be welcoming...we just want them to be extra welcoming. I don't know about the ELCA, but something like 70% of current Episcopalians were not born Episcopalians...they came from somewhere else, many of them Catholics. Staying in the Catholic church, however, doesn't mean you don't have allies, as I believe Kara has spelled out. I have no end of admiration for those who feel they want to stay and fight for what is theirs...more power to them!

Religious venues aside, there are plenty of social/political groups that have and attract voices -- gay and straight -- to fight the good fight...especially at your age, whether you're in school or not. Find the ones in your area and take part. Having something in common with someone before you meet is a better bet than meeting in a bar ("not that there's anything wrong with that"). But I also know you're not just talking about dating...or maybe you are? Either way, whether you're looking for love or looking for a friend, having something in common can only help.

And remember something else: as much as you've struggled, others are struggling more. You've found people here willing and eager to share some experiences and wisdom with you...you are just as capable of passing that -- and your own -- along to others who need to hear it. It can easily sound "cheesy", but: be the change you seek.

And, for all that's holy...have a blast doing it! After all, we're funnier and smarter and more attractive (that was God's gift to us...keep it under your hat).:love:

Wait.........huh?