Hi im C

[ireland]

Hey all i am a roman catholic lesbian, and while i myself do not struggle with my sexuality my gf does and its all a bit of a mess, she is a methodist, her family are dead against being gay, its a sin which you will burn in hell for. We are basically seeing eachother in secret which well doesnt happen very often, its been going on now for over 6 months, we are truely madly in love with eachother and we jus want to be together. She has told her family who refused to accept it and beleive its a choice to be gay, her hppiness does not come into the equation. Perhaps this is all a little vague but basically i want to know if anyones been in a similar situation or has any advice on the matter? its tearing me apart, thank you xx

[ireland]

please help xx

[Daniel]

Hey all i am a roman catholic lesbian, and while i myself do not struggle with my sexuality my gf does and its all a bit of a mess, she is a methodist, her family are dead against being gay, its a sin which you will burn in hell for.

I gather- though you do not say - that you are around University age and are living with parents, parents who you need to help with education etc. If so, that is a tough situation.

There have been quite a few who have been on this forum in similar situations. They solution? Making a life together by getting jobs and housing. That said, not being together enough is a sure fire way to live in one's head. I'm not saying that your love isn't real, but rather, it hasn't been measured by the really hard stuff. And that would be where you are taking care of each other on a day to day basis. And if that is what you want to do, you (meaning both of you) are going to make a PLAN. A written on paper plan. A plan with steps, goals and 'doable' stuff in it.

What can you each be doing to realize your dream of being together? Start with that. Making the dream a reality means dealing with the practical stuff.

How far along are you with that?

Now, if- for some reason- this isn't even a possibility, you are setting yourself up for great heartache.

Wishing you much happiness, love and joy.

[ireland]

I am 27 have my own house, she is 26 lives with parents. Thank you for your advice that would be exactly my plan. Her on the other hand cant put her family through the heartache. She says they would disown her and she could not live without them, which i totally understand. I recently told my parents who took it ok, but then thy are not as religious, they could see that i was just me and i couldnt change who i was. Her family think this is something that can be cured and not accepted. As for setting ourselves up for heartache yeah i think we are in the heartache, its totally killing the both of us. What makes me angry is how her family cant see they are destroying her, how can she ever have any kind of life?

[Daniel]

I am 27 have my own house, she is 26 lives with parents. Thank you for your advice that would be exactly my plan. Her on the other hand cant put her family through the heartache. She says they would disown her and she could not live without them, which i totally understand. I recently told my parents who took it ok, but then thy are not as religious, they could see that i was just me and i couldnt change who i was. Her family think this is something that can be cured and not accepted. As for setting ourselves up for heartache yeah i think we are in the heartache, its totally killing the both of us. What makes me angry is how her family cant see they are destroying her, how can she ever have any kind of life?

I hear you loud and clear.

Great that you have your own place. I take it, then, that you envision the two of you living together there.

Here's the deal as I see it. If your gal wants to remain closeted to her folks, then there isn't anything you can do about it unfortunately. She's going to have to have the courage to tell them. Yes. She could 'lose' them in the process. They might disown her. Then again, they might not. Right how she is living in fear. And that is a killer for any relationship.

What happens if she does come out and they disown her? At least she has you. Has she thought about that? And are you committed to making a relationship work between the two of you? Of course, I don't know, but she might be hedging her bets a bit, especially if this relationship is new to her. She might be afraid, not only of telling her parents, but of the commitment to the relationship itself.

Regardless of what the situation is, I can tell you this. If she keeps going down this road of hiding who she is while expecting you to pick up the slack, she is going to be one unhappy person, even more unhappy that she is now. She is going to resent the family she says she can't live without. That acid is going to eat away at her relationships. All of them.

If her family believes in the 'pray it away' cure, then they are in deep denial. And the only thing that is going to change that is you gal's disclosure. That will be the shock that will change everything.

Here's what I suggest. Your gal needs a support system in order to deal with her sexuality whether you are in the picture or not. That way, it won't be a matter of your influence. If you are the only person she is talking about this stuff to, then that places too much pressure on you. She needs to figure out a way to deal with things.

I was lucky. I got together with a guy, and when my parents suspected (my father cornered me actually), I told them I was gay. Bad scene. My father said horrible things while my mother cried. But the end result was that I began my first relationship which lasted nearly 5 years. If conservative religion had not been involved, things would have gone a lot better. Now, I have been with my husband for over 15 years, and my parents are much better about the whole thing. It took a long time, years actually, but things did change.

One has to be in if for the long haul.

Is your gal ready for that?

[E.B.G.]

Hi C,

What I recommend is that your girlfriend never stop telling her family that she didn't choose to be a lesbian, but they can choose to love her anyway. Love doesn't condemn or descriminate. She can get her parents back, but if she loses herself (just to keep them appeased), that'll be the most terrible loss.

Cheerio,
Eric.

[ireland]

Thanks Daniel, im not sure if she is ready for that, iv spent the past few days discussing ways around this problem, she can see no way out. The choice she gave me is to either except things the way they are or we end it. I know i cannot continue like this its killing me, if there was one tiny bit of hope id stick it out, id stand by her every step of the way. If only she could see that regardless of weather im in the picture or not, she is gay and she can never be truely happy until she sorts that out. I am now in the position where i can see no way out, i either continue with this, which is setting myself up for more heartache or i walk away (i dont think i can)

[ireland]

Hi C,

What I recommend is that your girlfriend never stop telling her family that she didn't choose to be a lesbian, but they can choose to love her anyway. Love doesn't condemn or descriminate. She can get her parents back, but if she loses herself (just to keep them appeased), that'll be the most terrible loss.

Cheerio,
Eric.

Thanks Eric, i will tell her that, that is most true. I cant stand by and let that happen.

[Daniel]

Thanks Daniel, im not sure if she is ready for that, iv spent the past few days discussing ways around this problem, she can see no way out. The choice she gave me is to either except things the way they are or we end it.

Really? She did that? Wow. That says volumes. I don't know the person of course, but it sounds a lot like fundi thinking which is very totalitarian. You might keep in mind that she is a product of that kind of stuff. And she's have to sort it all out eventually- or not.

So she is running scared and can't - and won't - deal with things. And the kicker is that she wants you to be available to her, but won't really be available to you. That doesn't make for a relationship. The thing is, parent's are smart: does she really think she can get away with you being her 'best friend' the rest of your lives? Somehow, I don't see how she can pull that lie off for the next 20-30 years. Times HAVE changed. People are much more aware about differences in sexuality, even conservatives.

If you really do not see any way to resolve this, then your only option may be to cease having a relationship. At least for now. That may give her some time to think about it. And I mean REALLY think about it. Once you are out of the picture (and not returning calls for instance), she won't have the luxury of having you at her beck and call. Right now is sounds like you are doing all the lifting and carrying in the relationship. And that is not a pattern that you want to set up as a basis for a relationship with anyone. Real love means doing the right thing. Give and take. And negotiation, not telling you how things are going to be.

This kind of thing breaks one's heart. And my heart goes out to you.

[ireland]

Yeah thats what she said, so i guess the only way forward for me is to put and end to it and see what comes from that, iv tried everything else. This is going to be the hardest thing, i can fight and fight but to walk away is the killer.

She said to me the other day 'when m with you i can be 'me' the rest of the time im pretending to be someone else' that broke my heart as i totally understand how that feels. Iv been there and i know that once you set yourself free and be yourself its the best feeling in the world.

[Daniel]

Yeah thats what she said, so i guess the only way forward for me is to put and end to it and see what comes from that, iv tried everything else. This is going to be the hardest thing, i can fight and fight but to walk away is the killer.

She said to me the other day 'when m with you i can be 'me' the rest of the time im pretending to be someone else' that broke my heart as i totally understand how that feels. Iv been there and i know that once you set yourself free and be yourself its the best feeling in the world.

And it sounds like she is making a terrible choice. That's what I hear you saying. She's made the choice to stay closeted, or at least try to (you might point out to her that her parents probably have some glimmer of intuition about this), and that is causing you both a great deal of pain.

Fundi thinking can also encompass the thinking that 'someone is going to save me', and she may have this going on in the recesses of her mind. But the practical truth of the matter in this kind of situation is that she is going to have to save herself. You can't do that for her. Yes. You can fight, but only so much.

[ireland]

Her family knows course they do, its easier to 'ignore' the truth. And surely it must pain them to know that they are hurting her, or can they ignore it that much that they see they are doing her good?!? I have no idea.

All i do know is we live in a very cruel world at times.

[Daniel]

Her family knows course they do, its easier to 'ignore' the truth. And surely it must pain them to know that they are hurting her, or can they ignore it that much that they see they are doing her good?!? I have no idea.

All i do know is we live in a very cruel world at times.

I doubt very much that it 'pains' them that they they are hurting their daughter. Rather, they undoubtedly think that they are helping her. 'Spare the rod and spoil the child' and all that stuff. Beside, I bet they blame you for causing her to 'sin', thus protecting themselves from the truth. That's a nice bit of projection.

Your gal is caught between a rock and a hard place.

I have a suggestion. Do you practice any kind of reflection or meditation, that is, where you can get really really quiet? The kind of quiet where you hardly feel your body? That is the place to go to right now, at least once a day. While you are 'there', you can ask what you should do. Then just be quiet and take what you get. It may come to you as a picture, a sound, or a feeling. The thing is not to strain to make anything happen. But if you practice this daily, you will 'know' what to do. Whatever you do 'get', follow the 'advice'.

The Kingdom is within!

[E.B.G.]

I doubt very much that it 'pains' them that they they are hurting their daughter. Rather, they undoubtedly think that they are helping her. 'Spare the rod and spoil the child' and all that stuff. Beside, I bet they blame you for causing her to 'sin', thus protecting themselves from the truth. That's a nice bit of projection.

Your gal is caught between a rock and a hard place.

I have a suggestion. Do you practice any kind of reflection or meditation, that is, where you can get really really quiet? The kind of quiet where you hardly feel your body? That is the place to go to right now, at least once a day. While you are 'there', you can ask what you should do. Then just be quiet and take what you get. It may come to you as a picture, a sound, or a feeling. The thing is not to strain to make anything happen. But if you practice this daily, you will 'know' what to do. Whatever you do 'get', follow the 'advice'.

The Kingdom is within!

Daniel may be on to something here, C. While in that quiet, unmoving meditation, you can as for guidance and help. Don't just leave things as they are, or your lover's parents will win. That can't happen, if you and she really want to be happy.

[ireland]

yes i have been sort of doing that i will try to more often, it does sound like a good idea.

As for calling it off for a wile hasnt worked im too weak i gave in so im no further forward. Thing is she can spend virtually no time with me at all. We work together so if its no monday to friday 9 to 5 i dont get to see her and that kills me.

[E.B.G.]

Obviously, she's making a wrong decision if she puts her parents ahead of your love. She's not a little girl anymore, is she?

Keep the faith. Everybody has got to grow up sometime, including the old ones.

[ireland]

Iv firm hold of the faith, i just need to inject her with some. I wish she could see that its all possible, hard but worth it.

[Daniel]

Iv firm hold of the faith, i just need to inject her with some. I wish she could see that its all possible, hard but worth it.

I disagree. This idea of injecting someone else with faith is another way of being dysfunctional. We all have to make ourselves happy. And your gal is going to have to find this herself. The saint's and angels could express their love, but is she doesn't believe it, then there is nothing they can do.

And I gotta say, this thing about you working together gives me pause. Why? It's the perfect situation for projection, that is, living in one's head.

I am sure I am sounding like I am coming down hard on you, but that is not my intent. What I want to encourage you to do, however, it is look at the reality- rather than the fantasy- of your situation. Your gal is going to have to do a heck of a lot of work to make an unreal situation a reality. And you can't make her do this. She has to want to. It's that simple. And no matter how much you want her to, in the end, she is the one who has to do it. The fact that she can't be bothered to think in these terms right now should give you pause.

[ireland]

Well the working together bit aint chosen, thats how we met. I know what your saying, to be honest i dont think she wants to. And yeah i have to look at the reality of the situation. Do i accept this can never be? or do i wait and hope it all works out?

Shes so so down at the min, she has this guilt which is dragging her down the double life so to speak. I feel so terrible, i looked in her eyes today and i felt sick as its me thats making her feel this, if she'd never have met me she would be fine.

[Daniel]

Shes so so down at the min, she has this guilt which is dragging her down the double life so to speak. I feel so terrible, i looked in her eyes today and i felt sick as its me thats making her feel this, if she'd never have met me she would be fine.

Is you hadn't met it would be someone else. In fact, it probably was, in HS or middle school. Bet she had a crush on some girl. So please don't give yourself guilt for being who you are.

And no: she would not be fine if she hadn't met you. There's nothing wrong with falling in love, is there? The fact that she is too afraid to follow her heart is her problem right now.

And if she is projecting the thought onto you that what is happening between you both is your fault, then she needs counseling. But then- she DOES need counseling, right? She needs help getting out of the fundi/conservative mindset- from all you have said about it.

By the way: how much work are you getting done with all this tornado of stuff going on? Please be careful: you don't want to lose your job over this.

There is a reason why office romance is a big 'no-no' with many companies.

[ireland]

No absolutly nothing wrong with falling in love. No she doesnt blame me for the way shes feeling, i just feel bad i guess when i see her hurting and i cant help. She is currently getting counselling, for other issues, and she has spoke to her counsellor about this but from what i gather the counsellor understands how her family is and the situation, which to be honest i would have thought they would see this as an unhealthy situation but what would i know. I guess i kinda hoped they would try and change her mindset into a healthy one.

As for work, yeah we do get our work done and it can be difficult at times. I have no intention of loosing my job, or her hers, jobs are very precious at the moment. Iv never met anyone through work before so its all new to me.

[Daniel]

No absolutly nothing wrong with falling in love. No she doesnt blame me for the way shes feeling, i just feel bad i guess when i see her hurting and i cant help. She is currently getting counselling, for other issues, and she has spoke to her counsellor about this but from what i gather the counsellor understands how her family is and the situation, which to be honest i would have thought they would see this as an unhealthy situation but what would i know. I guess i kinda hoped they would try and change her mindset into a healthy one.

As for work, yeah we do get our work done and it can be difficult at times. I have no intention of loosing my job, or her hers, jobs are very precious at the moment. Iv never met anyone through work before so its all new to me.

If her counselor is a 'christian' counselor, then I doubt very much that she (?) would be in favor of accepting her orientation. Of course this is third hand, but the counselor has no business 'understanding' the parents. Her JOB is to help the patient understand herself. That said, the counselor is going to take her or his lead from the patient. It's all up to her in the end.

You are in a very difficult situation seeing that the person you have feelings for also works with you. Some would tell you to break things off and keep your distance. Truly, no one can tell you what to do. Again: I encourage you to get very very quiet so as to listen to you intuition/inner guidance.

[ireland]

I have no idea if the counsellor is a chriastian or not. Yeah to be honest if someone came to me and asked my advice on this situation id say 'break it off' tho now im in the situation thats not so easy. The love is too strong to just walk away.

[Daniel]

I have no idea if the counsellor is a chriastian or not. Yeah to be honest if someone came to me and asked my advice on this situation id say 'break it off' tho now im in the situation thats not so easy. The love is too strong to just walk away.

A wise counselor to me once said this: "If you listen closely to someone, you will notice that they will tell you what their problem is and how to deal with it, and then they will ignore it."

Common sense is telling you to pull back. However, you've become 'emeshed'. And since you work together, the 'problem' is in your face all the time.

I suggest you pull back at least far enough to get your bearings.

[BrianB]

I have no idea if the counsellor is a chriastian or not. Yeah to be honest if someone came to me and asked my advice on this situation id say 'break it off' tho now im in the situation thats not so easy. The love is too strong to just walk away.

I can understand someone being scared to come out. It took me years and years to accept my orientation and tell my parents. Once done it was the most freeing thing ever in my life! It was extremely hard but I had several people supporting me. If she can at least consider the idea of coming out I might hang on. Ask her to picture in her mind how she would tell her parents. Maybe you can give her ideas or role play with her. If she won't even picture it then there isn't too much hope.

[ireland]

Hey guys its been a wile since my last post, im still in the same situation, well worse. Her mother just wont accept it no way, she thinks its something you can be delivered from, cured, wat are your thoughts on this? I figure not, i do not see it as a disease. Im fighting a loosing battle but i am a fighter and i will fight i jus need some hope. Its been the week from hell, shes under so much pressure at home its so unfair, my heart breaks for her. Her mother is speaking to someone who is ex-gay, is there such a thing? Im jus baffled with it all.

[E.B.G.]

Don't believe a word she says. Try if you can to make her watch the educational cartoon in the middle of the documentary, For the Bible Tells MeSo. If it means anything to you at all, do whatever you can to make this woman realize that (as the cartoon does say), "You can't just decide who to love."

[Daniel]

As long as she is living with her mother (and she is, right?) then all bets are off. The only way things are get going to get better is if there is a literal separation- some kind of distance. Of course, her mother does not know what she is talking about. Yes. There are people who claim they can pray away the gay. But this amounts to repression, not a change of orientation.

Love and attraction has it's own rules and laws. And these are matters of the heart. Love and desire, attraction and longing are like A big wide river. You just can't change its direction.