Religion Vs. Spirituality?

[koneill08]

Good morning all!!

At the risk of starting a, hopefully healthy, debate! :lol:

I have this question. In one of the other threads I was reading this morning about IHOP one of the posters said something that struck me and I thought I would ask this question to see what others thought. The poster was talking about the good things about the IHOP church. I'm familiar with that whole group of "prophetic/apostolic" workers. Mike Bickle, Chuck Pierce, C. Peter Wagner, et al.

My first comment is that there is something very uplifting about being touched in a truly open, passionate experience of worship and praise through song. I miss it. However, there seems to be a diametrically opposed set of forces at work in those kinds of groups. 1) THe openness to the spirit at work through worship, prayer and praise. Yet at the same time, when not in worship, prayer, and praise there is this anger, hatred, and judgment using the "law" as it's basis for right and wrong. It's like the verse that says how can blessings and curses come from the same mouth, brothers and sisters this ought not be. Anyway, that's not my point in all this....

The poster said something about IHOP not allowing "religious spirits" there and that it was to a be a place of spirituality instead.

So here's my question(s). What is the difference between religious and spiritual? How do you know when one is at work vs. the other? What part does "structure" (as the poster stated) have to do with spirituality? Is "structure" compatible with spirituality or is it a sign that something religious is at work (think of how the history of the orthodox church and it's structure in the early centuries came to be when you think about this question). I would just like to know what others think about the differences. Because many people believe that religious has a negative impact where with spirituality there is much more "freedom."

What do you all think?

Hope your Saturday is going well.

[Daniel]

Everything has a structure, even seeming chaos. Science tells us that. Ever heard of chaos theory?

Science also tells us that there is an ever present dance between the empiric - what can be known by personal experience- and the empirical, what can be known through objective measurement. There is experience and there is observation.

The word spiritual could be said to be empiric, while the word religion could be said to be empirical. Both need each other. You really can't have one without the other. Experience without some kind of container, some practice, some structure, doesn't have much longevity.

You could also posit that empiric is a right brain activity while empirical is a left brain activity.

Poetry uses both sides of the brain.

[antiochian]

I think religion stresses doctrine/dogma/formal belief, whereas sprituality doesn't necessarily. Many people who spout the usual "it's a relationship, not a religion" line--something you'll sometimes hear from Evangelical Christians--are actually quite dogmatic in their thinking.

I guess I'm personally a mixture. I'm spiritual, and to an extent, I'm religious. I believe in following certain rules (like kindness to others), I believe in an afterlife, though I don't define exactly what it entails. Because I derive a lot of my beliefs from Wicca, I'll use that faith as an example. Most Wiccans today appear to be anti-authority and anti-structure, yet orthodox Garderian Wicca is extremely structured and has a number of rules to follow (some Gardnerians will say they are the only true Wicca, where have I heard this before?...). There is hierarchy as well. Of course, the same can be said for mainstream religions. You have the formalism of the Catholics, and the individualism of the Quakers, and everything in between in Christianity.

Doctrine doesn't have to be bad. The litmus test for me is: do your beliefs make you a better, more loving person? Or do your beliefs make you intolerant, judgmental, and fearful?

One of the great ironies is that many of the world's "spiritual leaders" are not spiritual at all. Unless you think terrorism and hatred are spiritual activities.

[antiochian]

Looking back, it seems I only addressed half of the question. I talked about religion, but what about spirituality? Of course, the two often do intertwine to one degree or another. For instance, a Russian Orthodox would consider sacraments and liturgy a vital part of their spiritual walk, whereas for others a walk in the park can be just as spiritual as a 3-hour-long Good Friday service.

But spirituality, as best as I can figure, can be boiled down to human attempts to grapple with the big questions. What am I here for? What is my relationship to the world, creation, my fellow humans? How can I find peace in a world filled with war, disease, pain, injustice? Where will I go when I die? Is there an intelligent being (or beings) who care about and love me? What is most important in life?

Sprituality is like a journey. And everyone's spiritual journey is different.

Does any of this make sense, or am I ranting incoherently once again?

[Rick336]

Sprituality is like a journey. And everyone's spiritual journey is different.



I agree.

I am a very spiritual person but not at all religious. To me, most religion is a mindset passed down from generation to generation through thousands of years of myths, stories, and delusion. It can be a set of rules written in an ancient text by ancient men claiming they were magically inspired by an invisible god. As a skeptic, I don't buy this line of thinking simply because none of it is supported by empirical evidence.

I am, however, a spiritual person. To me spirituality is how I feel about life and my connection with the universe.



http://www.geekologie.com/2008/02/21/m81-galaxy.jpg
A view from far above.



I think about the spotlight of time that shines on July 20th, 2010 but continues to move forward across the remainder of July and then into August and September eventually passing into 2011 and then 2012 and eventually 2020 and 2050 and 2100 and on and on as this blue and green sphere spins around billions of times on its axis.



http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wTxmnCGweTM/S0DagRTBEaI/AAAAAAAAAtw/uM04YG0AGAo/s1600/2010%20-%20Creative%20Commons.jpg
Celebrate the present.



I know that I am here for an extremely brief period. And once I'm gone memories of me will quickly fade until one day it will be as if I never existed at all. This is not speculation. This is fact. It's the future for us all.

Life is fleeting. Humankind itself could suddenly vanish from the earth as a result of our own mistakes or from a variety of natural disasters. We are living in a window of peace and prosperity but don't count on that to last forever. Eventually our luck will run out.



The clock is ticking. In eight weeks I'll be 59. Many of the ones I graduated high school with in 1970 are already gone. Cancer could be growing in me as I write this. Or an artery to my heart could be slowly closing up. Or a drunk driver on a rainy highway could instantly put an end to me.

Yes. Life can be a pain in the ass. But most of it isn't if you look in the right direction. It's a lot like that line in "The Wizard of Oz" when Dorthy returns to Kansas and describes the land of Oz: "I remember that some of it wasn't very nice. But most of it was beautiful."

It's that beauty I seek while I'm still here. That's what I call spirituality.

Rick