Working it out

[pnggrad79]

This is something I honestly thought would never happen in a million years. A month ago you couldn't have convinced me that she would ever return. And in a very real sense, she hasn't. But- She has committed to working on this with me, but is very hesitant to commit to much else. I have taken steps to promise to be there if she decides to have a child. I have told her that I want to be there from start to finish. We have spent the night together 3 times, and had sex twice. God, it was wonderful to sleep with her again.

I still live separately however, in an apartment, while she is taking measures to move back into our home, while trying to sell it. She says she is not ready emotionally for me to move back home. I am not ready emotionally to give all of myself to her, although, we have agreed to conjugal visits. But I am a little nervous about a full blown commitment because I want certain things and right now, she is not able to give them to me.

Basically all she wants is a child. After that happens, who the hell knows what she will come up with that she absolutely has to have to be happy. I wonder honestly if she can be satisfied.

Time will tell, is all I can say, but I am amazed at the 180 degree turnaround she has made in at least trying to work on this. It has been 3 months yesterday since she left and I was really unsure she would ever return. So things change, and people change. I am just praying that this time of brokenness for me has been a changing agent and I am capable of doing what I say I am gonna do. This to me, is a God thing and I believe He orchestrated all of it. Now I want to know what the purpose was and why he brought me and us to this place.

[Daniel]

Basically all she wants is a child. After that happens, who the hell knows what she will come up with that she absolutely has to have to be happy. I wonder honestly if she can be satisfied.

I mean really listening to what you are saying?

I certainly hope so for your own sake.

[pnggrad79]

Honestly Daniel, I hope it works out. I love her too much not to try.

[Daniel]

Honestly Daniel, I hope it works out. I love her too much not to try.

What about that warning your kids gave you which you posted on this thread earlier?

Have you been seeing professional help? Are you going to seek professional help? Or are you going to jump into Round 5 of the Epic Struggle with eyes wide shut?

[BrianB]

Is it really worth taking more emotional abuse from this person? She is enjoying keeping you all tied up in knots. As long as you let her do it...she will. You can love someone with every last fiber of your being but unless they love you back in the same way someone will keep getting hurt. How many times do you have to touch the hot burner before you decide it's too painful? She doesn't love you the same way that you love her. If she did she would have a whole lot more regard for your feelings. FWIW, I really think you should move on to someone with more compassion and maturity.

[tdogg]

Honestly Daniel, I hope it works out. I love her too much not to try.

For your own sake, please go back and re-read all your posts on the other thread you started when she broke up with you. Read all your words, out loud to yourself two or three times. I agree with Daniel, please get some professional help to sort this out before you get wrapped up in the relationship again.

But if you choose to go forward, knowing what you know, after reading what you wrote and knowing what is in store, you will need to accept the consequences. Just be sure you understand the consequences and the risk you are taking. The risk is high, and it's not just your life you are messing with. Good luck.

[scott snedeker]

Being a quintessential codependent I, Saint Scooty of the perpteual sacrificial abused martyr, offer you some insight and experience.

You need more separation. Your self entitlement is nonexistent. The pain of the last time she kicked you in the teeth that woke you up has subsided and you are falling asleep once more.

Being codependent means compensating for and enabling another person's psychopathology. The pain of the other person makes them feel that they are entitled to the sacrifice of the happiness of the codependent. The codependent has such a low self worth that they are grateful for the opportunity to trade their self-loathing for being valued by another, even if that role is being psychological toilet paper.

The inability to see one's own entitlent to not be sacrificed and personal boundaries for me was akin to having a stroke and "cortical blindness" to my entitlement. Entitlement to just "be" without the requirement conditional of sacrifice of my happiness to another to earn such.

I actually had to write in large markers posssted all over my house, in my car etc. Messages like:

"I am responsible for no one's happiness excpt my own"

"Michael's pain (my ex) does not entitle him to my sacrifice"

"Michael's pain is not my responsibility"

"I am responsible to myself"

"I am responsible for my happines"

"Live in the joy of the moment"

I actually would forget these truths and could not remember what I had thought and had to go back and read these signs mulptple times every day. It was like rehbilitation therapy following a stroke! Iwas truly disabled!

I have no doubt that Being codependent stems from a focal cortical brain dysfunction linked to the psychological abuse caused by hompoophbia in formative years.

I see my mirror image in you.

I hope you can awaken enough to see that your "wife" will psychologically harm you if you don't break away. If not then at some point she will kick you hard in the teeth again. She will do this because you are holding her back from feeling her own pain and not seek a therapeutic solution when she can just keep wiping her psychological pus on you and your children.

The picture that you paint of her pattern of behavior is that of a Bipolar type II.

This means that It will cycle from tenacious single-minded ideation to dangerous extreme, uncotrollable rage, fear and even paranoid psychosis to remorse, regret depression guilt and hypersexual reconciliation with you.

You must seek the courage to disappoint her and not sacifice your children's health and safety to prevent her from feeling her own pain of her psychological illnesses and her actions.

Your child is entitled to your sacrifice. That's the condition called Motherhood. Your "wife" is not.


Choose wisely

[Jennifer5]

I must agree, please re-read your own words; they are full of pain and doubt. You are setting yourself up to be hurt yet again.

[pnggrad79]

Thanks guys for the words of caution. She hasn't yet committed anything to me except that we will raise a child together and I will move back in at some point. I know I have expressed a lot of pain and doubt and fear with this relationship, and honestly never thought she would EVER want me back. This past 3 weeks have done nothing but begin to restore my faith in our relationship. She is still guarded and so am I. She is the one who left, but feels "guarded", like I wasn't the one devastated. Oh well, we are working it out and doing The Love Dare together. It has forced us to face some really hard questions and make some agreements with each other. I covet your prayers and see this as an answer from God. He is plainly the only one who could have made her change her mind. It was nothing I did, I assure you. This was all her choice.

I have told her in no uncertain terms that I simply cannot endure her abandonment any longer. If we bring a child, she cannot leave. In fact, that option needs to be taken off the table.

[Daniel]

Thanks guys for the words of caution. She hasn't yet committed anything to me except that we will raise a child together and I will move back in at some point. I know I have expressed a lot of pain and doubt and fear with this relationship, and honestly never thought she would EVER want me back. This past 3 weeks have done nothing but begin to restore my faith in our relationship. She is still guarded and so am I. She is the one who left, but feels "guarded", like I wasn't the one devastated. Oh well, we are working it out and doing The Love Dare together. It has forced us to face some really hard questions and make some agreements with each other. I covet your prayers and see this as an answer from God. He is plainly the only one who could have made her change her mind. It was nothing I did, I assure you. This was all her choice.

I have told her in no uncertain terms that I simply cannot endure her abandonment any longer. If we bring a child, she cannot leave. In fact, that option needs to be taken off the table.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but a book is NOT enough. Certainly not enough for a relationship that has gone through the trauma that your has had already.

It's like this gal looks at you and your brain shuts off because you are getting a high. Ok. Fair enough. Being in love is great stuff. But that is not going to deal with the stuff that has gone down and - if not addressed- will happen again. You are looking at 4 going on 5 times being abandoned if there is a kid involved.

You need professional counseling. And after reading of your complete turn-around, that is, since the words of your own kids haven't penetrated very deeply, there is very little reason to believe that you are going to heed the warning signs and any advice given. You are going to do what you are going to do. You've written some really strong words here. And now seem to discount them as if they don't matter. That alone should give one pause.

The word BEWARE is made up of two words: BE & AWARE. And from your recent post you don't seem to be heeding even your own thoughts. What's it gonna take? Another cut and run from your ex?

[BrianB]

I'm done. You are going to do it again. She is going to hurt you...again. It would please me to be wrong about this but I don't think so. It's your life. Let us know when you have really had enough pain.

[scott snedeker]

Thanks guys for the words of caution. She hasn't yet committed anything to me except that we will raise a child together and I will move back in at some point. I know I have expressed a lot of pain and doubt and fear with this relationship, and honestly never thought she would EVER want me back. This past 3 weeks have done nothing but begin to restore my faith in our relationship. She is still guarded and so am I. She is the one who left, but feels "guarded", like I wasn't the one devastated. Oh well, we are working it out and doing The Love Dare together. It has forced us to face some really hard questions and make some agreements with each other. I covet your prayers and see this as an answer from God. He is plainly the only one who could have made her change her mind. It was nothing I did, I assure you. This was all her choice.

I have told her in no uncertain terms that I simply cannot endure her abandonment any longer. If we bring a child, she cannot leave. In fact, that option needs to be taken off the table.




we will raise a child together and I will move back in

This is unfair to the child whose purpose is to compensate for your and her psychopathology? Why not just tatto her name on your forehead, that way she owns you and can't discard you because everyone is witness to it? At least you will spare a child the torture of being formally trained to be a codependent.


If we bring a child, she cannot leave. In fact, that option needs to be taken off the table.

So you are setting a better trap for her that she can't wiggle out of? Gee! that's true love for sure! I'll bet she doesn't feel trapped or scared at all now! The only good thing about your proposal is that it is so obviously flawed she may just see your strategy and reject it!

That is old, proven disasterous, trailerpark logic. That is like saying If I put a child in my car with a a tire that leaks flat in 30 minutes that now the tire is prohibited from going flat.

The reason I am introducing sarcasm into my tone is that I have been down this road. Adding a child does not solve the problem,,,,It makes it worse by being more complicated and adding another victim.

You are an adult and you are hurt by her psychopathology. A child has no defense and will be tortured into a shortened miserable adult life of depression, drug addiction, and worse. What kind of escape will he or she seek when your "wife" in a fit tells her/him "The only reason we had you was so she (you) could trap me!"

Today I treat young men and women who are permanently screwed because in their early teens they started snorting oxyxcontin to escape a chaotic parenting household. Their Central Nervous System developed adapted to extremely high potency narcotics and now are permenently dysfunctional.

You are making decisions regarding relationships with a disability labelled codependent. This condition will hurt you and others with whom you live if you fail/refuse to recognize it.


You need a good therapist to find ways to compensate for this psychological disability. You will need to practice this compensation daily.


If you reply on this thread that you are seeking therapy and practicing daily, I will continue to reply with compassion, affirmation and support. I have been down this road.

If you reply with another way to perpetuate and feed into her and your psychopathology to avoid facing up to your disability, I have nothing more to say as you are not yet ready to appreciate my experience.

You can't buy heroine at a pharmacy

[Zerbie]

Dearest PNG,

I must add my voice to those of your good friends here. And they are good friends, however harsh some of their words may seem to you now.

The current state of your relationship is NO PLACE to raise a child. And no, having a child does NOT guarantee that "she cannot leave." Not at all. She CAN leave, and there will also be a dependent child, and then what? Who gets the child? Who pays child support? Etc. S/he will be caught in the middle any time your wife decides to play "Leave PNG For A While And Then Come Back"?! That can be devastating to a child. Scotty is right. The relationship MUST be solid and healthy before adding a child to the mix. A child is not a fix-it for a dysfunctional relationship. A child would be victimized by this situation. I've known people who have had babies to try to keep a wandering partner from leaving. In all cases, years later, they've turned into divorced couples with a scared or angry child being tossed from guardian to guardian amidst an ongoing chaos of changing custody agreements, and/or only seeing a beloved parent once or twice a year throughout childhood and teen years.

Please PNG, if you do decide to enter Round 5 of this scenario with your wife who has already left and come back 4 times, please do not bring a child into the home unless you AND she have both had extensive couples' counseling with a professional. Please - for the sake of the child. The first part of being responsible for a child's well-being is knowing when you are not positioned to give the child what s/he needs most. A safe, consistent loving environment. How safe, consistent and loving has your relationship with your wife been, and do you really want a child to feel the way you do now, only at the age of 2 or so and be unable to articulate or contain such feelings the way an adult can?

And I agree with your other friends. Re-read your words on the thread you started when she left you the fourth time. Are you truly willing to sign up for that experience all over again? Yes, I believe in second chances. But four and five times?!! What would you think if someone else told you their spouse left them 4 times? Would you be confident your friend wouldn't be hurt a fifth time? The sheer number of times this has happened indicates an entrenched and ongoing pattern. It's been her proven track-record. Are you really sure you are okay with signing up for round five?

[tymejumper]

If you agree to have a child with her, and then she leaves, your child will go with her. You will have no rights to this child either, because most states do not allow second parent adoption. THe mother who carries is the one with the legal rights. Period. All the court documents in the world will not stop her. All the court documents in the world will not help you, no will, no agreement, nothing. You will lose your wife and your child and that would have to be the most painful pain in the world, to lose your child.

I think back to that one lesbian mother whom had and raised a child for 4 years or so with her wife and the wife changed, found God, and left, hiding her child and not allowing visitation. The child is now much older and I doubt that she sees her other mom, much less remembers her. You would have no legal recourse. This other mother spent alot of money to see her child and she still does not.

Please make sure you think this through carefully before you bring another life into your relationship. Work throguh your problems and make sure your relationship is strong before adding a child. A child will cause untold stresses and a relationship that is not strong will crumble in the wake of having a child. We all want you to be happy, we are your friends and just want you to be careful. I personally don't want you to be hurt again. Please be very carefull.

[pnggrad79]

She went through insemination two weeks ago and it failed. I see it as a sign that maybe we might be putting the cart before the horse. Her parents refuse to let me in the house, as if I am some sort of evil demon bent on harming them. Her gay brother is just as toxic. I haven't even told my family, they will have a hairy fit.

But all that to say, if God wants her to have a child, it will happen, but not until then. This is a faithwalk for me and if she leaves again, I have told her to just stay gone. I can't handle the emotional trauma she always leaves in her wake. I said if you stay, you stay, period. No more leaving. I am done!

[Daniel]

She went through insemination two weeks ago and it failed. I see it as a sign that maybe we might be putting the cart before the horse. Her parents refuse to let me in the house, as if I am some sort of evil demon bent on harming them. Her gay brother is just as toxic. I haven't even told my family, they will have a hairy fit.

But all that to say, if God wants her to have a child, it will happen, but not until then. This is a faithwalk for me and if she leaves again, I have told her to just stay gone. I can't handle the emotional trauma she always leaves in her wake. I said if you stay, you stay, period. No more leaving. I am done!

And you haven't told your family? And her family can't stand you? Why does this all sound like a mess in the making?

Faith walk?

I'd hardly call it that. Faith is built on the truth. And you won't/can't tell it to the people who are supposed be mean the most to us- that is - family.

Who do you think you are fooling?

Haven't seen a counselor, have you? All very hush, hush, secret drama? That's a recipe for disaster.

How can you be honest with others when you are being dishonest with yourself?