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NathanATX
06-05-2006, 01:58 PM
Ever felt like an outcast? Ever felt like everyone else must have it easier than you? Especially when it comes to dating?

I'm not going to tell you that my dating experience is the same as yours, because I don't really know what life is like in your shoes... but let me share what's it been like for me.

I am lucky enough to look like and fit in with the "mainstream" gay crowd. I'm male; white; not overweight; not a model, but attractive; employed; have an SUV; etc.... On the outside, it seems like life should be super easy for me because I fit into expected stereotypes pretty well, right?

But look, finding the one person to spend your life with isn't as easy as finding a new outfit or changing your look. It's (most likely) not an automatic event for most people... even the "normal" ones. ("normal" is a figment of your imagination!)

I came out in 1999 at 21 years old... had an international email/phone relationship that never materialized beyond email/phone... dated a guy in another state and saw him twice... had numerous weekend flings that fizzled out when I (or him) sobered up... I've tried match.com, gay.com, bars, churches, etc.............

Some of that may sound "fun" or "glamourous" even... but remember that I was just a guy looking for love... and doing anything I could to get a glimpse of it.

About four years ago, I went home with a guy and moved in a few months later... thinking I had found "the one." We had a very difficult two year relationship. A lot of pain, hurting each other, and unneccessary drama.

After leaving him, I realized that he wasn't the problem... and I wasn't either. We just didn't take the time to get to know each other before making the relationship "permanent." I didn't really know who I was, what was important to me or what kind of guy I was really looking for. I tried to make it work for two dark years.

I hadn't really learned my lesson at that point and was still pretty casual about my dating and sexual habits. I continued to play the "hook up and see if it works out" game.

Until... (by this time I was back in church) I ran into a guy I had hooked up with and immediately discarded because he wasn't "on my level." He had actually come to church one day and he saw me. I knew he was hurt... and that I had caused that hurt.

I made a committment at that point to be responsible for my behavior AND my committment to follow Christ's command when he said to "love your neighbor as you love yourself." I was no longer going to cause that kind of harm in other people's lives.

Compassion is wanting God's best for others and to be willing to do anything to make that happen. -- Even giving up meeting your personal desires(sex) and needs(intimacy/love).

Maybe you were/are like I was... using people to meet your needs & desires. Or maybe you are one of those who, like a lot of people tell me, that are the ones who continually get teased, used and then discarded. And they end up blaming these other guys/gals for being users, abusers, etc.

Really taking on a committment to be compassionate & loving will bring an end to using & taking advantage of others... if that's what you've been doing. Read further to hear how I made this change...

And I know sometimes, if it seems you're always the one getting dumped on, it might be easy to think that this entire debacle is out of your control... but...

What I want you to consider is the possibility that you have some responsibility in the way you are being treated because of how you think/feel about yourself, your dating behavior and what you let other people get away with doing to you. I'm not saying anyone's behavior is justifiable-- at all, but you will never be able to control someone else's behavior, only your own.

What can you do to become responsible for your dating behavior?

What can you do to become responsible for finding someone who meets your needs & desires?

What can you do to become responsible for becoming someone who can meet the needs & desires of your partner?

Read "If the Buddha Dated."

Read "Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting."

Do the Landmark Forum www.landmarkeducation.com.

Do some work on yourself with a therapist.

Get dating advice from married couples.

Spend time in prayer about God's plan for your life. Ask God what kind of man you are created to become. Ask God to lead you to the woman/man who will help you blossom as you help him/her grow at the same time.

Dream. Spend time each day imagining what your best life is going to be like. What will your wife/husband be like? Will you have kids? Where will you live? What will your relationship be like?

Remember that God's plans for you ARE for good. If there's a mess in your life, maybe it's a learning experience or maybe you're out of God's plan for your life. Listen to the voice of the Spirit.

When the enemy brings doubt, fear, feelings of unworthiness, depression, etc... be very clear that those things are not of God and ARE NOT TRUE. Jesus said the enemy comes to steal, kill & destroy, but He came so you could have LIFE, more and better life than you ever dreamed possible!

Honor yourself as a child of God. Set limits and boundaries with other people. Do not tolerate unloving or unkind behavior to continue against you. Don't let those actions get you down or make you upset--because they are ONLY reflective of the person doing them.

After doing these things & more, I ended up being abstinent for a year. (yes, you CAN still be a 20something gay/lesbian/straight person and be abstinent... it won't kill you... :) ) Of course, I didn't make a vow or pledge to not have sex, because those don't work... but I DID make that committment to be loving & compassionate in my dating life. I made a conscious choice to be more concerned about God's heart for the guys I was going out with as oppossed to being concerned with what I wanted from them.

And, yes, it was difficult. We've all been lonely, bored, or the hormones have been in hyperdrive... and then you're on a date with this attractive & energetic person who is maybe in the same place(or worse) as you and is willing do to whatever is on your mind in order to meet one of their needs.

Anytime that little voice started speaking in my spirit, I chose to listen. As a result, I know I avoided some huge mistakes. I avoided hurting some precious guys. I avoided hurting myself. More importantly though, by honoring myself as a precious and valueable child of God... I honored the other guy the same way. That is the essence of compassion and what it means to be a Christian: Love God and love your neighbor/friend/date/partner AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF.

You are so precious to God, dear ones. Honor God's love for you by simply accepting and believing it. Let an awareness of God's love guide your thoughts and your actions.

May the God of Love bring you into the Light of peace & compassion. May you know that Love in a new way. And may you extend your hands to everyone you meet and bring them into the same Light.

love,

Nate :love:



P.S. After several years of ignoring the call of God, I decided to start visiting seminaries and get serious about ministry. I went to a weekend visit with about 40 other prospective students to a Methodisty seminary. One beautiful guy there kept distracting me and I was telling God "I'm not here looking for a man, I'm here to prepare for ministry!" But one thing led to another... very slowly, I might add, and now I am incredibly blessed to be in a wonderful relationship with a man who is more than I even hoped to ask for... His name is Robert H. and he is my partner in ministry, my lover, my friend. He encourages me, challenges me, and laughs at me...

Love is worth waiting for, my friends. Wait for God's best for you! xo Nate

Zerbie
06-05-2006, 02:13 PM
Hey Nathan,

What a wonderful journey! You've learned so much and now you have that to share with the rest of us. Thank you.

Yes, absolutely, you need to know who you are, what you need/want/expect in a relationship, and love and accept yourself, before you can be a partner, on that level, to anyone else. That takes time. Years.

You are so right about respecting others' boundaries, bodies, minds, hearts, and that it goes together with respecting your own.

Also - love really does tend to come when you aren't there to look for it. I was ready to meet my partner when it happened, but I wasn't expecting to so soon, and therefore was not looking. Neither was he. But we met, and we were both ready to communicate and relate on all levels with the utmost care for each other.

I am happy for you in your relationship too. Thanks for the encouraging words.

SolApollo
06-05-2006, 03:01 PM
Amen. Dating is very hard, and I'm still looking for "the one" too. Hopefully, that will not be a long wait, but oh well... Peace.

Mia14
06-05-2006, 07:25 PM
I got lucky and found my gf at a college demonstration on National Coming Out Day (which actually happened to be my first public coming-out!).

Maybe it'd be good to meet other people at other gay-friendly events, like parades and community gatherings? Another good place might be the gay/lesbian section of a book store - I've made friends there.:)

Daniel
06-06-2006, 09:58 AM
Ah....I remember dating some 15 years ago and can sum up things with the thought that kept ringing in my head at that time: To have to Prince you must be a Prince.

Or course, this sounds simple enough until one's inner frog starts croaking and you find youself in the dark dank swamp of your own unaddressed motivations and desires.

When I met my husband I had already been in two significant relationships. The first lasted 4 and a half years and ended quite horribly. The second, which lasted 2 years, was more of an obsession. I look back and see that there were definite reasons why I had both relationships and also why they both 'failed'. Nate is right. I had to make a commitment to examine my conduct, thinking and motivations. Sure, anyone can be a yawning chasm of need or neurosis, but what fun is that to be around? Something has to change for there to be change- and one can't change what one is not aware of. For me this has been a matter of Being rather than Having.

Vanessa White
06-06-2006, 10:27 AM
Nate: Your post is SOOOOOO timely for me!!! Thank you for your pure spirit, and your tremendous insight and disclosure of your own experiences. I have spent the last twenty years of my life in relationships that were not fulfilling to me, the first of the two last nine years, and I knew in the very beginning I did not belong there, but stayed for fear of being alone. After that, I thought my relationship that just ended recently was "the one"- for what the other person was reflecting to me, or so I thought. I know that the reason is that I finally felt I needed to leave it, is because I stood fully in my own truth- naked, brutally honest- and realized even being alone is better than being alone in a relationship. I am scared and sad a lot of days, because being alone is so hard. And it is so easy to follow our desires at least to feel good for a brief time. But I agree with all of you, that my energy has to be better spent on the genuine article, which I know will come my way. I have no regrets, but I know that I will not have to relearn any old lessons again. I trust GOd so fully that what he has in store for me is bigger and better than ever, in my affirmation book this week it stated that "One day we see: we didn't get what we wanted because God had something much better planned for us." Amen to that!!! Love and peace to all, Vanessa :love: :o :love: :o

Zerbie
06-06-2006, 01:11 PM
Wow to what Daniel and Vanessa have said! What a terrific pick-me-up for the mid-morning!!! :D

Vanessa, I am so proud of you for having so much courage to leap into the unknown, an unknown you apparently have feared for a long time. It is necessary to face scary painful things to get *past* them and find the joy that is meant for us. :love: :pray:

Daniel, what wisdom. You had to stop wanting and needing that prince and allow yourself to BE him. Then look what happened! :D :p ;)

You must have a basic handle on who you are, your strengths and your weaker points, how you react and interact, before you can chose a compatible partner. You have to know what is negotiable in a relationship and what is indispensable. And you have to be able to throw your preconceptions out the window if when you meet your ideal partner s/he turns out to be the apple when you were waiting for the orange. (Lousy metaphor, I know, I know. :rolleyes: At least it's simple. :p )

I knew I needed a strong personality. I dated several folk with less forceful personalities, and found myself stomping all over them. They would adapt and change to accomodate and "please" me trying to keep me around but I'd immediately get frustrated with them for not holding their ground against me. I saw it as capitulation and it turned me off. I was finally able to articulate that need only about a year before I met hubby. And man! Did I ever get what I asked for!!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: And yes, the dynamic works. ;)

There are a half-dozen more examples from my own experience, that only observing myself and testing the waters with lots of dates could teach me. I had the puzzle more or less figured out the year before I met my partner. I remember how strange and startling it was to notice, "Omigosh, I'm ready to BE a partner now. Okay. . .where are ya???":D Met hubby less than a year later.

Vanessa White
06-06-2006, 01:55 PM
Zerbie: You and all of the other friends here so speak my language! You really do have to have a clear understanding of who you are, your responses/reactions/flaws/slights whatever, and a friend of mine calls the items that are nonnegotiable to be in a relationship with someone as the "deal-breakers". So true. I never looked at what I absolutely had to have closely enough, or at least, insisted on it enough, because I thought that to do that was not allowing for the other person to have their own flaws and shortcomings. WRONG!! They are not one in the same thing, I have since come to understand about myself. Now, I do, and I am holding onto those necessities, ideals and dreams for dear life. Vanessa :love: :love:

NathanATX
06-06-2006, 02:06 PM
Deal-breakers have little to do with the other person though... usually. (violence is one exception) Trust issues, fidelity, jobs, etc., usually are tied up in some kind of fear or "don't want." By focusing on those things, guess what you become a magnet for?

Vanessa White
06-06-2006, 02:27 PM
I guess I really didn't think of it that way, but it really is about me and not the other. Sounds like you may have some "magnet" experience yourself, which I know I do! A part of me feels so emphatic about what I want to find this time around, that I am afraid if I just wait to just "know" it is the right person, like this time, that I will get myself in the middle of something that is not what it appears to be- again. I guess I need to listen even more closely to myself than ever, to avoid "contract" mentality up front. Thanks for your thoughts, Nate. Vanessa :love:

Britt.
06-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Since I'm at work, I'll have to read through all the replies & give a more detailed reply later, but thanks for posting this Nate. I had more or less given up on dating, & am just starting to come out of that, so your post gives me something to think about.

NathanATX
06-06-2006, 04:12 PM
I guess I really didn't think of it that way, but it really is about me and not the other. Sounds like you may have some "magnet" experience yourself, which I know I do! A part of me feels so emphatic about what I want to find this time around, that I am afraid if I just wait to just "know" it is the right person, like this time, that I will get myself in the middle of something that is not what it appears to be- again. I guess I need to listen even more closely to myself than ever, to avoid "contract" mentality up front. Thanks for your thoughts, Nate. Vanessa :love:

Just like Daniel said... it's about awakening the person within you. When you are your best self, you will be a magnet for someone else on the same level. When you are vibrating with scared, negative, depressed, etc. energy... that's what you are inviting into your life.

Read "Excuse me, your life is waiting" and "Beyond Positive Thinking"

Daniel
06-06-2006, 07:22 PM
Just like Daniel said... it's about awakening the person within you. When you are your best self, you will be a magnet for someone else on the same level.

Yes!!!!!! Still trying to stay awake here!

There is one thing that I would like to add to my previous post: the matter of saying 'no'. Guess what? When I started making changes in my life (a good deal of sitting on a cushion - having a spiritual practice- and seeing a canny therapist), I found myself tested: over and over and over.

My spiritual counselor gave me this advice: "When you meet someone, refrain from' sleeping with them right way...that can cloud your ability to 'see'. Watch the person as they cross the room or when you aren't otherwise engaged verbally. Just look. Don't think. Feel the area of your solar plexus and heart. How does it feel there? Is it peaceful?"

Or course, this kind of thing takes practice.

Vanessa White
06-07-2006, 09:16 AM
This thread is so speaking to my heart of hearts, all. When I try to envision what the future looks like for me, in terms of the type of person is in it in a close way, full, sexual intimacy is not yet even a vision in my mind. I want so much more before that. I do imagine the watching from across a room, observing, taking in, breathing in the reality of it. Imagining dancing together, closely but not clutching, in a kitchen to soft music. I don't even envision much in terms of a kiss, except in the gentlest, softest sense. I know that I will want the passion and full intimate experience with someone, but initially, I need to know so much more first.

schoolboi
06-07-2006, 10:21 AM
Nathan thanks for sharing this. I have been through a similar journey and am now in the place you described were I am seeking to "love my neighbor as I love myself". I have actually been in that place since I broke up with my partner in 2004. The only place where our stories differ is that I would not change my relationship with my ex at all. It was one of the happiest times of my life. We are now best friends. I would not be the same person I am now or have the same opportunities I do know if we had not been together.

Thanks again for your wisdom and confirmation.

NathanATX
06-07-2006, 12:02 PM
Nathan thanks for sharing this. I have been through a similar journey and am now in the place you described were I am seeking to "love my neighbor as I love myself". I have actually been in that place since I broke up with my partner in 2004. The only place where our stories differ is that I would not change my relationship with my ex at all. It was one of the happiest times of my life. We are now best friends. I would not be the same person I am now or have the same opportunities I do know if we had not been together.

Thanks again for your wisdom and confirmation.

I do have regret for what happened with my ex. I regret I wasn't my best self. I regret things I did & said that caused hurt. I regret I wasn't responsible for my own emotional & spiritual well-being. I regret I blamed him for my personal problems.

Now, though, I can remember his kindness and love.... his encouragement and silliness. There were lots of great moments when we were together.

I no longer feel anger or hurt towards him. I actually feel pretty humbled that he stuck with me as long as he did... in spite of the way I was being. He is a sweet, good-hearted guy... we just were not a good match. We have very different sexual values, spiritual values, financial values, familiy values, etc. I'm not saying mine are more "right" by any means, but we weren't responsible for understanding our differences and working out compromises & accomodations for them.

So what I did... and I what I continually attempt to do... is get committed to be responsible for myself, my emotional well-being, my spiritual life, my business goals, etc. I continually "work on myself." I try to live my best life. Of course, I'm still human. I make mistakes and have "bad days." But now, I acknowledge my failures in these committments quickly and quickly recommitt and get back in the game.

When I get "me" taken care of and get my issues handled, I can really be with my boyfriend. I can really be with people I'm reaching out to. I can really be with God.

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in all of us. And when we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.” -- Maryann Williamson

Zerbie
06-07-2006, 02:01 PM
Nathan,

Bravo.

So many people never even get to this step.
Thank you for the inspiration.