Bodyworlds2

[awediot]

Just went to see the BODYWORLDS2 (http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/home.asp) exhibition in Denver. It is said that there is nothing NEW under the sun... I am no longer sure of that... (not for the faint of heart!)

Thinker (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/58/The_Thinker.JPG)
Man (http://pw.english.uwm.edu/~migc/cadaver.jpg)
Chess player (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2002/10/24/hagens.jpg)
Chess 2 (http://www.koenig-plauen.de/Metachess/Images/0382.jpg)
Basketball player (http://chronicle.augusta.com/images/headlines/070304/26993_512.jpg)
artist and subject (http://www.marcsteinmetz.com/images/plastination/plastination06_fixieren.jpg)
Misc. (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bigredandshiny.com/issues/issue10/pix/article/LOVELESS_A_CLIMATE_OF_6131945_03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bigredandshiny.com/cgi-bin/retrieve.pl%3Fissue%3Dissue10%26section%3Darticle% 26article%3DLOVELESS_A_CLIMATE_OF_6131945&h=291&w=300&sz=13&tbnid=E1B3Sv5cu4EixM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=111&hl=en&start=46&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgunther%2Bvon%2Bhagens%26start%3D40%2 6svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:20 05-46,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN)
Party (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.n24.de/php-bin/data/cgalerie/content/n24_boulevard_de_040528_nackte_und_tote/01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.n24.de/php-bin/scripts/cgalerie/cgalerie.php%3Fgal%3Dn24_boulevard_de_040528_nackt e_und_tote%26bild%3D1%26skin%3D560&h=303&w=404&sz=39&tbnid=2ZRpI3ymbcii-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=121&hl=en&start=158&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgunther%2Bvon%2Bhagens%26start%3D140% 26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2 005-46,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN)

It was very, very... something. Any impressions?

[Zerbie]

I'm really glad all that is normally covered with skin. It would feel terrible if it weren't.

Seriously, it looked at first like actual cadavers (to my untrained glance, anyway- shrug.) Reminders of the A&P class I took - that was 7 years ago already, so I needed the reminder. :p

[awediot]

They are all REAL...

[Zerbie]

Oh!!! Seriously???? :eek:

If so, that would be why they looked so accurate to me.

But, er? How would it be possible to use actual cadavers in an art exhibit? Wouldn't that be, like, monumentally illegal?

Cadavers. (shakes head.) Leave it to you, Awe, to post photos of cadavers here. . . If I have nightmares dammit I am going to blame it all on you.

[awediot]

Here's a bit of his Story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_von_Hagens), and there is alot out there about the history of these exhibitions. I want to follow up a bit, but want some thoughts on it first... The shows are popular enough to be creating copy-cat exhibits... I feel lucky to have seen it. For a museum, it is strange to sell tickets, days in advance to let groups in every 15 minutes. They are consistently sold out with much of the crowd driving in from surrounding states... A phenomenon in the making.

[Zerbie]

Wow - fascinating stuff!

Never heard of it til 30 minute ago (about.)

My response was, "Oh, it looks like an anatomy textbook in 3D" and I started searching for tendons, origins, insertions. Flashbacks of my massage training days. Though I have always found something morbid about analyzing someone's deceased body. Never been found of carcasses, but I do get interested in looking at how all the parts work.

On one of the earliest ever dates with my husband, we ate dinner outside in summer at an Austrian inn and they served me up a trout, complete with head/tail/skin/bones. Once I had my dinner cut open down the center, I leaned my face down into the plate and started examining muscle origins and insertions, pointing it out to Hubby To Be, "Hey look, I'm eating this trout's intercostal muscles - see how many there are? Here's one, and here's one, and here's one. . ." And he married me anyway! :lol:

[Emproph]

On one of the earliest ever dates with my husband, we ate dinner outside in summer at an Austrian inn and they served me up a trout, complete with head/tail/skin/bones. Once I had my dinner cut open down the center, I leaned my face down into the plate and started examining muscle origins and insertions, pointing it out to Hubby To Be, "Hey look, I'm eating this trout's intercostal muscles - see how many there are? Here's one, and here's one, and here's one. . ." And he married me anyway! :lol:Oh bless his heart, you would have lost me at the first “intercostal muscle...” :lol:
__________________________________________

Imagine the logistics of ‘racism’ in the parallel realities where our skin is transparent or opaque.

That was my pretty thought. My real thought is that we should have “art work” like that shown to depict the aftermath of Iraqi car bombings instead of ‘oh there’s a car on fire, and oh there’s some blood on the street and oh there’s a man crying.

I think it makes a profound difference in the horror of suddenly losing someone when you also have to deal with the trauma of just having been splattered with pieces and parts of them.

That could work for stopping the war, it could also work for wearing seatbelts and helmets. In fact it has a rich tapestry of application.. :cool:

Seriously though, ya just don't think about the amount of fat in the pad of your pinky finger until you rip it open by smashing a vcr onto the floor.

[BruceChris]

Both fascinating, and repulsive. I agree with Zerbie, I definitely prefer people with their skin on. I probably took much the same A & P class that you did, and somehow things looked so much more viewable when they were (literally) on paper.

P&L, BC

[Lydia]

Just went to see the BODYWORLDS2 (http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/home.asp) exhibition in Denver. It is said that there is nothing NEW under the sun... I am no longer sure of that... (not for the faint of heart!)

Did you see the fetus exhibit as well?

I haven't seen Bodyworks, but I've heard that they have a display showing fetal development from the first through third trimesters. All of the, er, donations came from miscarriages from what I've heard.

[Zerbie]

Oh bless his heart, you would have lost me at the first “intercostal muscle...” :lol:
__________________________________________

the floor.[/I]

:D Another reason it's a good thing we didn't date each other. :D




(Had to edit that because I left out the verb!!)

[sbonser04]

OMG........ i saw it in philadelphia back in march. i loved it.....but of course i'm one of those sick science people haha.......well nursing major/ emt. personally i liked it b/c i learned about all the body parts and what they do, we used models to help us in a&p 1,2 and nursing labs, but u dont really know what it looks like until u see it for real.

i've seen the fetus exhibit, it was in philly....pretty amazing....they also have a woman who died at about 8 months pregnant and u can see the fetus inside the womb. personally i don't think there is anything wrong w/ it b/c the bodies are donated. you have to fill out alot of paper work. they showed it to us incase anyone was interested in donating.

[awediot]

Lydia and sbonser, Yeah, the fetal part, with 8 mo. pregnant woman w/ nicely sliced viewing window into the womb was quite the cherry on top of an exasperating show. I overall enjoyed it, but it takes a decidedly artistic tangent and abandons any pretense of being done in the name of science. The dissections get creative for the sake of showing off the talents of the sculptors, not to reveal the deeper mysteries of the bodies structure. That is grasped pretty easily in the first four or five models. As time goes by, the creepier and more irreverent it seems to be...

[Lydia]

The dissections get creative for the sake of showing off the talents of the sculptors, not to reveal the deeper mysteries of the bodies structure. That is grasped pretty easily in the first four or five models. As time goes by, the creepier and more irreverent it seems to be...

What should have been done differently to convey the message that those bodies were being used for science instead of for art?

[schoolboi]

I am planning on going up to Denver to see the exhibit while I'm in CO for the Focus on the Family action. I can't wait!

[awediot]

What should have been done differently to convey the message that those bodies were being used for science instead of for art?

IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO GO, YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO READ THIS! (schoolboi)

That is the rub, they weren't, and those behind the scenes knew they weren't. The pretense is specifically dropped. The Barnum and Baily quality, as referenced by numerous reviews as well as Von Hagens own history, is quite intentional.The scientific merit is practically mocked by the skier jumping through a huge invisible saw to be bi-sected around the viewer like a tree, or the X-woman, mutilated at disturbing 45 degree angles to look like what we all agreed was the unmasked creature from "Predator", or the man with drawers punched and pulled from him filled with guts (an acknowledged tribute to Dali's "anthropomorphic cabinet") Had it been purely scientific, it would have been 1/3 the length and 1/10 as popular. The brain slices on the gift shop coffee cups were to be expected, but never the less gruesome.

I have done more research since going to the exhibit, and the trail of Gunther Von Hagens and his questionable sources for the cadavers is lurid. The claim that only donated subjects were used for public viewing is only a testament to the other, less legitimate ones used to "perfect" his techniques (which are still being refined and have resulted in some, say, less than dry models...). I am glad I went in as ignorant as I was and if I knew then what I have since learned, I doubt I would have gone. I can't escape the feeling that the entire story and growing popularity is a horror show that says some really bad things about where the soul of this country is headed...